Arundhati ‘Pakistani’ and ‘Patriotic’ Right-wingers

Here's a report on elections in Kashmir:

The fourth phase of voting in India's month-long general election is taking place, with 85 seats up for grabs in seven states across the world's most populous democracy, as well as in the capital New Delhi.

Heavy security has been deployed for polling in the Kashmir valley, the disputed northern Himalayan region claimed by both India and Pakistan.

The separatist All Parties Hurriyat (Freedom) Conference has urged a boycott of the vote in the region's summer capital of Srinagar, arguing that the polls legitimise Indian rule of the territory.

"So far, we haven't seen many voters coming out," Al Jazeera's Prerna Supri, reporting from Srinagar, said several hours after polls opened.

"Remember that a 50-hour strike called by the separatist leaders doesn't end until later this evening after polling has ended."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/05/2009573279918 445.html
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide

Re: # 125 Riaz

"...you questions are based on dishonest intent..not to understand the issues .."

You are entitled to your opinions, but not to your facts. I have systematically pointed out the error in your facts. Your opinions are yours alone!

Pakistan Paaindubad!

Re: # 133 anil
[...Pakistanis should...hatred, anger, obsession or whatever to create unity in Pakistan to its betterment to improve economy (not stuffing chanda boxes)...]

if "unity" is achieved using hatred - how can it be used for anything other than jihad against the target of that hatred?...

Anycase - why are you ready to make indians the target for paki hatred anyway?... Why should pakis use hatred of indians to better themselves(even if that were possible), are indians some kind of sacrificial goats?...

Are you stupid?...

Re: # 125 Riaz

"No insurgents in India are comparable in terms of training and armaments to the Taliban in Pakistan".

No, indeed - Al Qaeda camps were used to routinely train Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Toiba militants to infiltrate Kashmir in the pre-9/11 time frame.

"The Taliban are giving a very hard time to US/NATO in Afghanistan."

That's in large part because the US/NATO have less than 100,000 troops in an area several times larger than Kashmir - remember the criticism of Rumsfeld's Iraq occupation strategy as not having sufficient forces and the need for a subsequent 'surge'. If you want to smother an insurgency - you need troops and lots of them - more like 700,000 in an area the size of Kashmir.

"...but to push your own agenda of demonizing Muslims and Pakistanis..."

Actually, no. I sympathize with the Punjabi and Bengali Pakis who did not want partition to begin with, but had it foisted on them and now have to deal with the ginormous Taliban problem with none of the resources that British India had! (I have read my Ayesha Jalal). And, I am not afraid to call a spade a spade.

Riaz Haq asli mein sala hindu hai. woh pakistani naheen hain.

Chucha buttees sahib, dekhlo yeah hindu ka kamaal. tum sab ko ullu baneke nikla

Re: # 128

Hamidm sahib:

".. ......... i have suggested starting a war with india to keep the taliban busy with killing real infidels instead of beheading poor policemen whose only crime is that they like to shave and take a bath once in a while .......... "

Please come clean and say that you are worried because you do not want your Salwar to be ankle high, and beard touching the chest, and glorious mark on your head. It is for this selfish reason you want Taliban to be shown your eastern border.

Do you realize, if they will be busy with bigger evil and soon float in greenback that their grandfather had not seen, then they not want to spoil a great party. Atleast on Pakistan's werstern border every one would soon talk in billions of dollars, while on the eastern border it will billions of miseries.

Please let me know what anyone who has brain of more than a sheep and less than a vegetable, would decide. If you think eastern border, I would say you two more chances left to think.

Riaz,

"Yes, minorities do count, in so far as respecting their basic rights. But not in determining the future of Kashmir. That right belongs to the majority of the people of the state."

Hmm...how well does this particular argument hold up in justifying partition ? Or was majority of India screaming for partition ?

As far as I am (and I suspect many Indians are) concerned, any Shia/Sunni/Hindu/Buddhist/agnostic/atheist Kashmiri who wants to become a Pakistani is more than welcome to move there. I'm sure they'd get a warm welcome, given the overall level of altruistic concern the state of Pakistan has shown for Kashmiris. But please don't insist on carrying the land with you. When you mess with property, states get a little ticked off and do try to stop you.

Re: # 128

Hamidm sahib:

"........ i am sure that you must have noticed that all pakis agree on one thing - kashmir! ......"

I have said this many times, I would further say that one thing is India.

Pakistanis should this unity through hatred, anger, obsession or whatever to create unity in Pakistan to its betterment to improve economy (not stuffing chanda boxes), education (not K for Kafir) and so on.

Re: # 126 Hamidm ustaad

You know that there is this ancient Indic tradition of never disrespecting your guru - and having shown me the way to several generations of prosperity through the Pakistan Defence Savings bonds, you are my guru, and I dare not disrespect you.

But, I do have the peculiar habit learned from you to objectively question sources. So, when you write, 'kill hundreds of thousands of kashmiris?', I have to ask you:

a) hundreds of thousands of Kashmiris - really? Do you have a source? Last time I checked the BBC was reporting about 50,000

b) Over 20 years, that is still a smaller number than the poor Iraqis (87,000 dead in 6 years). So, is the US to blame for the 87,000 dead?

Shagird

Re: # 125

Riaz:

With all due to respect, your and Hamidm sahibs position on Kashmir is based on bankrupt TNT.

Pakistan sealed the future of Indian Kashmir several times,

1. when it attacked in 1948, and raped and pillaged Kashmiri Muslims through infiltrators. They forgot that they have to capture Srinagar.

2. when it attacked in 1965, and had to watch out for loss of Lahore.

3. when it attacked Bangladesh in 1971, and raped and pillaged Bengalis.

Palistan has no moral authority over India on these issues. I can go on more but this line of thinking is such a waste.

The future of South Asia needs to mold based on economic and other modern principles. I envision a blueprint of a roadmap that devolves power to states in India (including Indian Kashmir). I am not certain Pakistani Punjabi (70% of the population) is ready for a similar blue print for Pakistan.

Devolution of power from center to state, is happening in India, in defective Indian ways. Regional parties now come and rule the center. Not the other way around.

Pakistan can evolve its own blue print, and next generation of South Asians will have solutions for more than just Kashmir.

Pakistan is not ready for a fresh approach. It still harps on TNT, when TNT is no more.

Till then, Pakistanis can make their obsession with Indian Kaashmir as a nightmare to address every few years (last was Kargil).

Re: # 125 Riaz-ul-Haq

Allah hu Akbar!

"...But not in determining the future of Kashmir. ..."

The majority is busy voting in elections right now! Enough said.

"...As far Shia not wanting Pakistan, it is a white lie. Many Shia leaders are part of the Hurriet movement and support integration with Pak..."

Did you ever wonder why there is no separatism in Kargil? Guess what the religious affiliation of people from Kargil is? And while you are at it, do you want to guess why they were singled out for artillery bombing in '99 by your vaunted Army and the Sunni border districts were spared? You won't find the answer in the popular literature you read.

"...Pakistan's founder QA MA Jinnah was Shia..."

Allah hu Akbar

Yes indeed, and what a blunder he made - the Shias of Pakistan get shafted every Moharram! What is the body count of Shia doctors in Karachi? I am sure that Jinnah is turning in his grave trying to figure out that Liaqat Ali Khan didn't waste much time in establishing the Koran and the Sunnah as the bedrock of the Pakistani Constitution. But, let us not stop there - Zafarullah Khan (holy of holies) was an Ahmedi - those other revered minorities in Pakistan! As was that other god in the Pakistani pantheon - Abdus Salam whose wisened face stares down from every Pakistani chowk and in whose name high school students sing praises before physics labs

"Yes, minorities do count, in so far as respecting their basic rights. "!

So, now that we are assured that minority rights (did I mention the Sikhs of Orakzai who are begging to pay Jiziya to the Taliban?) are fully respected in your vaunted Pakistan, I think that you may have a point after all!

Re: # 128 haan....beech raaste mein ek aadh nun mille tau aacha hain....sab khush

Re: # 125

riaz mian,

..... i am sure that you must have noticed that all pakis agree on one thing - kashmir! ...... this is one issue that unites us all and drives the horrible hindoos crazy ....... now, if we could leverage this to overturn the hindoo's charpoy (if he has one) and dump him on the rialroad tracks ......... i have suggested starting a war with india to keep the taliban busy with killing real infidels instead of beheading poor policemen whose only crime is that they like to shave and take a bath once in a while .......... instead of wasting time and ammunition in swat and dir, i think we can achieve the same goal by taking a run at srinagar with the taliban leading the way to clear indian minefields and stop incoming small arm fire .........what do you think?

Re: # 125 Riaz sala, tu bada shyana nikala. Ekdum Pakistan ka ulta.

Tu sala hindu nikala. such such bata

Yes, minorities do count, in so far as respecting their basic rights. But not in determining the future of Kashmir. That right belongs to the majority of the people of the state.

:D :D :D abey UKP teray dimaagh mein bhoosa hain kya. Soch samjh ke baath leekh

Re: # 123

pepe l'pew,

..... so how did you kill hundreds of thousands of kashmiris? ..... did you smother them with love? ... don't tell me it was the smell of heeng laced bhaji that killed them .............

Re: # 124: "So, minorities don't count?"

Dear Pepe le'Pew,
Yes, minorities do count, in so far as respecting their basic rights. But not in determining the future of Kashmir. That right belongs to the majority of the people of the state.

As far Shia not wanting Pakistan, it is a white lie. Many Shia leaders are part of the Hurriet movement and support integration with Pak. Pak has Shia leaders in the highest places...including the prime minister's office. Pakistan's founder QA MA Jinnah was Shia. Yousaf Raza Gillani is Shia.

No insurgents in India are comparable in terms of training and armaments to the Taliban in Pakistan. Indian military is used to dealing with a much more gentle insurgents. The Taliban are giving a very hard time to US/NATO in Afghanistan. So that should tell you the nature of the enemy and the tactics required to deal with it.

Bottom line, you questions are based on dishonest intent..not to understand the issues but to push your own agenda of demonizing Muslims and Pakistanis. So I don't expect you to understand or even seriously ponder anything I tell you. So let's drop all the pretenses here and agree to disagree.
Riaz Haq, PakAlumni Worldwide