The Shrinking Boundaries of Sikhism

BJ#34:

That was a touching and correct observation.

Pablo#31:

I am happy to know that my sample is biased and that there are many cases of Hindu-Sikh marriages where the Sikh mother has raised Keshadhari Sikhs.

Delhiwala.....

When Guru Gobind Singh baptised the panj-piare, why didn't he immediately declare that all the thousands of other Sikhs in attendance, were no longer Sikhs, if he didn't accept pluralism and heterodoxy as a defining trait of the Sikh community?

Delhiwala, do you not understand that Sikhs are in danger of losing the heterodoxy that has been a strength of theirs? At the end of the day this is about who can and cannot call themselves a Sikh and if it is only amritdharis then you can autmoatically reduce the Sikh population of the world by 90%.....

Sanatani#various:

It is easy to see the anguish in your posts and a sincere empathy for the Sikh panth. But at the same time, please do realise that the Sikh community has collectively decided that they do not want to be a part of the Hindu parivaar and the Hindus should respect that sentiment. At an individual level, Hindus and Sikhs have been and continue to parts of same extended families.

Sikhs want their own special space. Let them have it.

Issue here is that there is no one on Chowk who has 5Ks(except me) and can talk about Sikhi.

It is like future of the Sikhi(at least on cyber chowk) is decided by those who wants to see things in a certain way.

this reminds me of a line that I cant remember in entirity...

Moorakh naal na loojiye...(probably Guru Angad...)

DM
{This is where you are wrong. Five-Ks are an important part of the earlier Khalsa identity and to many Sikhs it is important that they keep those symbols of their identity. My problem is with the exclusivism, not with keeping one's identity.}

There is no issue with excluvism, Gurudwara has 4 doors and everyone is welcome.

When was the last time you were denied entry into a Gurudwara because you dont have 5Ks? (you probably never had Kesh, I think?)

laddu#various:

We are not dealing here with some merely academic issues but those of a unique and proud identity and the Sikh fears of losing that identity. The kind of arguments that you are making are precisely those which cause the Sikh anxiety about their identity. I suspect that this is the reason why they have more or less disowned Dasam Granth and interpret references to Ram in GGS differently from how Hindus interpret them.

The more Hindus try to "prove" to Sikhs that they are the same, the more they will try to assert their separateness, which is quite natural.

Laddu will freak out when he goes to the Gurudwaras in Canada where he finds that majortity of people who have cut their hair and carry Khalistan slogans and T-shirts with logos.

laddu#15:

"The era of 5-k's is over"

This is where you are wrong. Five-Ks are an important part of the earlier Khalsa identity and to many Sikhs it is important that they keep those symbols of their identity. My problem is with the exclusivism, not with keeping one's identity.

"It is time Sikhism became more spiritual and less of dhakosala like the Gurus wanted."
I find more spiritualism in my local gurudwara than in the Tirupati temple in Andhra Pradesh.

DM: But I do know of my relative's grand parents who had cut their hair and kept on going to the Gurudwaras, their Grand Children now dont call themselves as Sikhs but as Hindus.

Ask the children or grand children of those Kesh dharis who cut their what are they now? there are thousands of such generations around.

Amitabh Bachan's Nana was a Sikh, does Amitabh Bachan calls himself a Sikh now?

does MM Singh's grand children call themselves as Sikhs too?

Does Sampooran Singh(AKA Gulzar of Bollywood) calls himself a Sikh now a days?

Geeta Bali's kids?

List is endless.


I agree that religion is personal matter and should not be forced. If someone does not want to follow Sikhi with 5Ks, they are free to quit on their own, but why distort what others believe in.

It hurts and feels like an attack on something that I believe in hence this argument.

anil#8:

"I have not met a single Sikh who says he is no longer a Sikh, even though he may have cut hair and shaved."

This is an important point. Once a Sikh, always a Sikh. However, some people in orthodoxy would like to change that and, that in my opinion, is not healthy for the long-term growth of the Sikh community.

Pablo: this guy sounds like an idiot, who is paid to be a mouth piece of some organization.

Sikh soverignity has nothing to do what-so-ever with connections with Hindus.

Sikhs are distinct in their faith(even if it arrived from Hindus).

On one hand he praises Guru Gobind Singh who wrote Dasam Granth and quotes selective passages from it on the other hand he negates what Guru Gobind Singh said about 5Ks.

Is'nt this selective, 10th Guru wrote about Chaubees Avatar I like that but I dont like what he said about 5Ks.

In fact Guru Gobind Singh Jee would be called a Antakwadi/Terrorist by Laddu and majority of Indians.

Actually, he was deemed a Terrorist by then rulers. But end of the day who cares what others percieve of Sikhs.

For DMSir: If today we are sitting and having an argument on Chowk it is simply because Keshdharis exist, if not Sikhi was done with in 1700s.

Look what happened to minas, nanak Panthis, Kabir Panthis etc.

It is the Khalsa who defined what Sikhs are today, this is an undisputed fact, if someone disagrees with that notion he is the biggest fool of all.

Laddu -- your equating of keshdhari with Khalistani is idiotic. That would mean that every keshdari in your reckoning is demonized. And that is stupid to an embarassing degree, as in I am embarassed that you display your naked stupidity like that. Get a grip of yourself.

Now , if you call guru Gobind saheb's Chaubis -Avatar as an ATTACK ON SIKHI then one can only smile at your own shallow understanding of such a great religion!!

To claim distinctness on the basis of Kesh just shows a shallow understanding of sikhi.

Guru Nanka would have never claimed him to be a Sikh as defined by the SGPC and these ex-pat khalistanis.

"The poet asserts that he, having descended from the martial Ksatriyas, cannot think of adopting the attitude of a recluse towards the disturbed conditions of his time."

If Guru Gobind saheb did not draw inspiration from the Avatars of Vishnu then any one who claims a semitic-twist to sikhi needs to be banished forever!!