The Shrinking Boundaries of Sikhism

My exposure to Sikhs has been as friends and neighbors. As a kid, I had no idea of what the Sikh philosophy was or what the “fine points� of that religion were – but still admired Sikhs a lot because of simple reasons: (1) these were hard-working and honest folks and their work ethics was inspiring, (2) their courage was inspiring, (3) their sense of charity and their community altruism was high class, (4) their patriotism was outstanding. In all those areas, they proved themselves through their day-to-day deeds not through any sort of preaching. I firmly believe that if Sirdarji bhais stick with the deeds – they will be fine – no matter where they are. Unfortunately, when fundamentalists like Bhindranwale emerge and start killing innocent civilians (like they did in the early eighties), they are doing evil deeds! Evil deeds hurt everybody but they most hurt the perpetrators and those associated with him/her. Accordingly, I think Bhindranwale did serious damage to the cause of Sikhism. Those who set him up as a martyr are essentially following the same line – with the same end effects. The “purist� sirdarjis have the potential to bring about tremendous damage to the Sikh faith – again, based on THEIR deeds.

Good one, sanatani. Probably there is a need that steps be taken more broadly, just as you took them personally, so confidence is resotored that Hindus don't wish to harm Sikhi in way, shape, or form.

Re: # 26

Please go to any gurudwara and lsiten to the Shabad and Gurbani.

Laddu I pity you you would not know spirituality if it bit you on your backside you would still think it a female of the canine species.

Sanatani

Dost Mittar

My father is Sikh and my mother Hindu and I was raised half-half, well lets say 55% Sikh and 45% Hindu.

I just wanted to comment about Sikh women who marry Hindu men. You mention your experience. I can mention mine and that is that in Sikh - Hindu marriages where the woman is Sikh she does a good job of Sikh-ifying her husband and keeping the Sikh flame alive in her children. This is from my cousins and friends. If anything, having children concentrates the mind and whilst the predominant ethos of these unions is fairly laissez-faire and easy going, they keep Singh and Kaur as basic marker of their childrens faith. Well this is my experience in England, and in mixed marriages generally in my circle of family and friends.

Re: # 25

DM ji.

know of several cases in earlier times when Arya Samajis had no problem marrying off their daughters to Sikhs, knowing fully well that their grandchildren would grow as Sikhs.


That is the jaativaad of all these scoundrels Aryas and Khalsas who glibly talk about monotheism, opposition to rituals and idol worship BUT when it comes to marrying the kids they look for within the CASTE Jutts marry Jutts, Bhappas Bhappas and Ramgarhias Ramgarhias. That way we Sanatan Dharmis are better maybe we should sue these guys or at least take royalty for usage of the books, gods and heroes of the mother religion.

I too recieved many proposals for becoming a Jawhai of the Sikhs (who would never dream of having a Jutt son-in-law) but did not accept as I did not want anyone saying that he baptised his son due to pressure/patronage from in-laws.

Sanatani

"There is a lot of dhakosala and ritualism in the name of "maryada" (the Sunnat code by SGPC) and NO meditativeness and spiritual elevation !!"

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The last time I was at Gurudwara was during akhaand paath of a family and for an hour and a half everyone was in a state of meditative bliss listening to kirtan. I wasn't because I am an agnostic who is easily bored, but your constant insistence in declaring there is no spiritual elevation is pompous and ridiculous --- nobody spends that much time inside a temple unless they are getting spiritual sustenance. The aridity of codes are not going to keep people spiritually alive and attending any Gurudwara.

Re: # 25

I shal share an instance with you. When the Hindus were expleed from Kashmir in 1990 was the time when the Shri Ram Janambhoomi agitation was at just starting. There had been a minor riot in Shri Prayag (Allahabad) regrding the Kashmiris and the Hindu Mahasabha was having a sabha. Late Dr Netra Pal Yadav the convenor got up and gave a speech on the Nihangs and how they had combated fanaticicsm with greater fanaticism and humbled the muslai on their own ground and made a proposal let us give Hindus the Khalsa or death (i.e. make all Hindus Khalsa). Not 1 person objected to it though 1 guy he was a thakur from Fatehpur and had studied in Amritsar said that initially (since no one was clear on the same the Akal Takth should allow neo converts to worship idols). When we took the proposal to our more numerous RSS/VHP cousins they said they did not oppose Hindus embracing Khalsa but any mass movement could backfire against ordinary Sikhs and that since these were troubled times in Punjab 1 should let things settle down there and then bring the same up. What is pertinent is that not even the so called custodians of Hindusim opposed mass conversion of Hindus to the Khalsa.

Later in Kolkatta we had met Dr Keshub Pratap Sen who was a HM gone to Commie and returned back who said this about the Sikhs "in 1947 we wanted to become Sikhs but the Sikhs probably did not want us in 1954 Dr Ambedkar wanted to become Sikh but again these guys did not want it". "Possibly the only way to become Sikh is if te neo-sikhs renounce the right to vote in the SGPC do not disturb the Jat Khatri equation there and once having become Sikhs turn a blind eye to the depradations and bastardity of the so called custodians of the Sikh faith". The tears in his eyes and the passion in his voice when he spoke this really shook us.

Cut 3. I decide to baptise my son as a Khalsa and take him to the gurudwara (no body in my family opposes but some are uneasy though nobody dares say anything openly as my opening line has been "Munde ne baiyan nu soonp reyan"). The granthi behaves strangely he 1st laments how Hindus (mona is the word used) do not give elder sons to the Panth. Then on finding that I have no Khalsa relatives wants to know how the boy will learn Sikh rehat maryada and then on finding that I smike tells me to rethink and come back later. When I tell him that General Dyer was given a Saropa on agreeing to cut back by two sticks a year (this after J Bagh) for the rest of his life he flares and says Hindus (uses the H word) have only liked to insult the Sikhs/Khalsa. A leading industrialist sees the commotion intervenes and my son is baptised as Zorawar Singh, but the experince is surreal and the chasm between the Hindus and Sikhs for all to see. Later the granthi starts becoming a regular visitor to my house and wonder of wonders tells Zorawar to not severe his links with the overall Hindu samaj we are all Hindus to be a Sikh is a privelege.

Sanatani

Pardesi, I have some tiny little ideas that I will put forward to Hindu rightwingers. That's the advantage of being a Hindu rightwinger. One can talk to them :)

Goodnite for now and best regards.

DMji,

I asked a very important question and nobody wven took it up.

Except for sitting in Gurudwara quietly and sleeping to the shabad kirtans - where is the meditativeness in today's sikhi??

There is a lot of dhakosala and ritualism in the name of "maryada" (the Sunnat code by SGPC) and NO meditativeness and spiritual elevation !!

Pardesi:

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Here is my response:

#12:

"I disagree however with # 9 comment. My father was raised as a punjabi hindu (and hence i have many hindu relatives) and my mom was a pukki sikhani. Not only were we raised as kesadhari sikhs, my father also became kesadhari kattar sikh. It all depends upon how exposed folks are to sikh values and history."

My comments were general. I suspect that your case is perhaps a minority; I have been scratching my head to think of a case similar to yours but couldn't. What I have noticed, however, is that in all such cases, the mother kept her faith and father and children usually go to gurudwaras and observe both Hindu festivals and gurpurbs, but they don't have 'singh' in their name.
I agree with the rest of that comment.

#14:
"Sikhs feel that hindus will not give them credit for their contribution or their values on an instituttional basis (not on an individual basis). examples they cite - how many defence weapons, think tanks, missiles etc. have been named after the bravest of the brave sikh warriors (ranjeet singh, hari singh nalwa, baba deep singh and so many others). The western oriented elite (with a desi mask) that rules knows all about western history and heroes but not much about the fierce sikh struggle for oppressed indians when there was no CNN and fox to cover the brutalities)."

Here, I think that the objections will disappear if the saffronites come to power; I know for sure that Banda Bahadur, Guru Gobind Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa are also the RSS icons.

"3. Arya Samaj is mentioned frequently as an organization that made its mark around 1860-80 after punjab had become "free" from both sikh and muslim rule. And since then, many sikhs believe, they have taken lead in insulting sikh gurus and values and their goal is to bring sikhs back to the pure original religion like budhism was many centuries back."

Yes, Arya Samaj is mentioned frequently. I also happen to believe that the Arya Samaj appealed to precisely to the same sentiments that the Sikh Gurus appealed, namely, against idol worship and rituals; I think that it is more strictly monotheistic than Sikhism. It seems to have influenced some Sikhs also, such as the famous Sardar Dayal Singh, and therefore the Sikhs had a genuine cause of being threatened. But the charge of their ridiculing Sikhs seems to be exaggerated, if true. I have talked to many Arya Samajis and they don't seem to have many prejudices against Sikhs. I know of several cases in earlier times when Arya Samajis had no problem marrying off their daughters to Sikhs, knowing fully well that their grandchildren would grow as Sikhs.

However, the Arya Samajis were probably the staunchest opponent of Punjabi language and have contributed to the estrangement between the two communities.

"4. Sikhs cite punjabi suba and language issues they faced during 1960s and how their center/state power sharing struggle was twisted by Indira to essentially "destroy" them."

Partly true. The Akali party was in the forefront on the centre-state power issue and we should all be thankful to them for the better environment in that respect. But I don't think that they were in the forefront against Emergency. Indeed, Punjab was less affected by the Emergency than Delhi, Haryana and UP. Indira-Zail combination played havoc with the Sikh politics.

Re: # 22 Pablo,

I fully agree. The required thick skin will also help to listen and tolerate what others are saying.

Re: # 21 Eklavya,

On Personal level there is no fear since sikhs have learned to not butt their head with delhi rulers unnecessarily. They are learning to go with the flow. Let country take care of itself as long as citizens can take care of themselves. Before 1984, sikhs were leading opposition to Indira's emergency declaration, center/state issues etc. etc. Now I guess the approach is - Sonia is great, Rahul/Varun/Priyanka are greatest and ofcourse BJP is out of this world :)

Frankly, I dont know what any one can do other than hope that may God give us all enough sense to see right from wrong and ability to learn from history.

Pardesi you left something else out....some Sikhs need to grow a thicker skin and be prepared to be self-critical without declaring anyone who is critical as a 'betrayer' of Sikhism. At the end of the day, no outsider can do more harm to Sikhs than Sikhs can and are doing to themselves!

Can we think of some practical things that Hindus can do to ease Sikhs concerns and fears, as well expressed by Pardesi?

I fully agree with DR saab, DM and Pablo on need for sikh reformation:

1. We must make peace with folks of other castes and their faiths. We were not assigned patent by Guru Gobind Singh jee for all ages to use his name or message the way we interpret it. If there can be so many different kinds of churches and they can coexist in christianity, why can we not learn to respect each other, celebrate what we have in common and tolerate where we differ?

2. Kesadhari vs clean shaven thing must be pure personal decision. No one can tell others what to do. People will need to learn to mind their own business.

3. Education, education, education. Arya Samaj put hindus in front ahead of sikhs (and way ahead of muslims) by their focus on education. We are little late but thank god we are catching up fast.

4. Kirpan age is gone. Ballot needs to be respected in gurudwaras. If our folks do not do that, we might be superman/superwoman individually, but we will get our behinds kicked collectively again and again until we learn it.

Ok, I think that's eneough from me. Hope I did not hurt too much any one's sensitivities.

"In fact they think sikhs will become converted back to lazy caste ridden society"

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Pardesi....it is almost already there!!