The Shrinking Boundaries of Sikhism

Re: # 82

Oh prahji,

We are part of the same family we may debate and even bitterly but not fight. If pablo has said something hurtful please respond to show what he has said is not right.

But you yourself have said the behaviour of Khalsa youth in Canada leaves a lot to be desired and in the same vein you come and say things against Sindhis and Madrassis there is some disconnect.

BTW Madrasis love Langar in and IF YOU BLOODY KESHDAHRIS TRIED A POLCIY OF ATTRACTION towards them then you would see that Akal- BJP alliance sweeping Tamil Nadu 15 years and no prizes for guessing who would be the majority partner.

The bloody Keshdharis is exparastingly said.

Sanatani

Re: # 79

Speaking for the now defunct Mahasabha I would say:

Give all Hindus Khalsa or death BUT

Allow us to worship idols for I FERVETNLY believe the Gurus erred on this one possibly too influenced by muslai iconclasm

And let us face it they were Gurus and would have made a couple of mistakes.

The second one they were too Hindu they did not delve into the political phenomenon called Islam if they did they would have given the message to reconvert them with no quarter for the same.

Sanatani

Re: # 74

Delhiwale Bhaiya,

Bhai Sati Das, Bhai Mati Das and Bhai Dyala were what Amritdharis or Khalsa???

Ok and why this opposition to Ram and Krishna after all the Gurus are their descendants.

Sanatani

Re: # 59

Delhiwale Bhaiya,

And is this a thing of Pride.

Sanatani

Re: # 63

DM Sahib,

done. We will accept Sikhs are not part of the Hindu parivaar and have nothing to do with the Sikhs. Fine remove all refernces of Hindu gods from the Adi Granth substitute Wahe Guru for it. Remove Ram, Krishna, Hari, Shiva from the Adi Granth and then not only will I say that we are totally separate I will even disown my son and send him to a khalsa school paying for his upkeep but never acknowledging him and never see his face all my life.

Sanatani

Re: # 58

Very true most Hindu Mandirs of this scale are not for spirtiuality they are only for Darshan I mean if you have 7-8 seconds to Darshan you will hardly have time for spirituality.

Sanatanit

Re: # 55

Delhiwale bhaiya,

It is nobody's denial that the Khalsa is the most important definition of the Sikh but NOT the ONLY definition. Hell if one had the issue with the Khalsa then why would 1 baptise 1's eldest son as one.

The issues I am raising:

1) Patronising attitude of Keshdharis which at times boils down to downright ridicule and insults to Hindus and Sehajdharis.

2) Like other Indians the Keshas are going from being citizens of their well (Punjab) to Citizens of the world (converting Goras and Kalas to the Khalsa)with no concession for India (no preaching of the shabad and gurbani to India's vast multitudes) LEST if the Tamils, Banglas, Oriyas, Marathas, Dalits etc. en masse embrace the Khalsa disturbing the Jutt/Khatri domination of the SGPC and the vast wealth they control. And Bhai if there would be a concerted effort on JUST ATTRACTION (setting up Gurdwaras in remote areas, having regular Shabad Kirtan and Gurbani and Langar where all castes would eat together and explaing the Gurbani of Har Jaat Saman Har Jaat Mahan) and not PROMOTION/PROSELYTISING (Hear me ye sinners salvation through jesus only) then the number of people who would convert to the Khalsa would bogle your mind

3) Too much concern with the externalities esp Kesh with no concern with the message of the Gurus. No concern with Social reform no concern with female infantcide no opposition to Cow slaughter.

4) An obsession with the fact that being Sikh means we are not Hindu.

Boss people like me are willing to Kill for the Khalsa and its identity but to me it seems like the Thekedars of the Sikh Panth want to kill it.

If today very few Hindus aregiving heir sons to the Khalsa whose loss it is the loss of Hindu Samaj of which the Khalsa is a very important part if not the Most Important part. If the Sikhs as earlier time identified themselves as such the Khalsa would grow and not be swallowed up by Hindu Dharam. Notice the case of the Nanakpanthi Amils (of which Shri LK Advanis family is a part). They were in the 1860's given an ultimatum that either call yourself Sikhs and accpet Kesh or do not call yourself Sikhs. They tried to reason, plead, cajole to no avail. As Advaniji himself said while we have the highest respect for the Shri Granths and the Shri Gurus but equally we are attached to our identity as Hindus and with Hindus Samaj and all other Hindu heroes and saints and gods. Thus forced by this ultimatum they gave up their Sikh identity and became Nanakpanthi Hindus where the Adi Granth has pride of Place and all ceremonies are done as per Sikh rites.

And last but not the least there is no Sikh/Khalsa monoploy on either the Gurus or the Granths. We are willing to be guided by the Panth on matters of Maryada or on how rituals are to be conducted and how some innocous things should not be done as they may be considered not against the Shaan of the Gurus (Guruan de Shaan De Khilaaf) but that is it nothing more than that,

Now if you get angry with Laddu's saying fair enough but that can be ignored. What cannot be ignored is what is happening overall in the affairs of the Khalsa. I firmly beieve that the overall well being of the Sanatan Dharm, Hindu Samaj and Bharat Mata is linked to the Khalsa panth and it pains us when we see it taking a path of folly and disaster.

Sanatani

Alternatively I will agree what I am saying is bunkum if you can show me two things written in the Granths:

1) The Khalsa is for Punjabis only esp upper castes
2) Being Sikh means we are not Hindu.

Delhiwala we are all Hindus to be a Sikh/Khalsa is a privilege which I have given my son and I hope he lives up to it.

If Guru Gobind Singh says that he was a hindu Yogi in the past life and was re-incarnated to save Hindu dharma then you accuse me of being a fanatic??

So Guru Gobind singh saheb was a RSS fanatic as well??

Laddu is a hysterical fanatic.

Re: # 112

These are all acceptable recommendations. (thumbs up icon.)

(and the tricky parts have been identified)

And ofcourse these Amritdhari-Ulemas would like to deny that Guru Gobind Singh was a reincarnation of a Hindu Yogi who practiced Yogic austerities and meditations in the Himalayas.

"I think that we should replace all SGPC and Sikh leadership with proper amritdharis, who show the Rehat Maryada at sustaniable pace for at least 10 year time period.

A committee governed by Sikh code of conduct from original Maryada should deem the present day status of these leaders and replace them if lacking in Sikh values."

So, the Sikh Amritdhari Ulemas are going to decide who is sikh and who is not. And then these Amritdhari-Uleams are going to give out FATWA. Then they would enfore their FATWAS with their Gangsters of "Vice and Virtue Police"?

I would recommend that these political-Amritdharis should convert and become muslims. They probably get to follow a better code that is more sophisticated and has a lot more to offer to them in this life and the after life as well.

Re: # 94

"Amritdharis control all te institutions in sikhism and thats how they dictate to others. Unless this monopoly is broken, sikhism can not dream of increasing its reach and will keep on shrinking further."

This is the reality. Amritdhari dukaan daari must END.

Amritdharis trying to assume that they are the favoured Sunnis of Sacche Padshah is the biggest joke!!

Re: # 74

"Issue here is that when Sehajdhari Sikhs (with strong Political backing) are redefining the Sikhi. such as admission to colleges, Rehat Maryada etc.

If they had it their way they would install Ram, Krishna and Geeta in Harimandir Sahib. In fact this was already done in last century.

Es Sikhi de peechay bahut Khoon dullya hai, te oho khoon kevel tau keval Amritdhariya hi si.
With passive backing of Sehajdhari Sikhs."

Yes, a lot of blood had flown during the last decades in Punjab BECAUSE of these so-called Amrit-dharis - and all those Amritdharis of Bhindrawale Gang were Khalisthanis!!

Some ex-pats ISI agents are trying to do the same that they have done with ex-pat Punjabi muslims. USE Amritdhari- Islamists as a sign of purity and exclusivity so that those who follow the Sunnat-code would be able to capture political power and Gurudwaras.

This is a political game of exclusivity and one up man ship by the so-called Amritdharis so as different voices about Sikhi can be suopressed and their DIKTAT (remember the DIKTAT-s of Bhidrawale and his Gang much like the DIKTATs of Talibani leaders) can be imposed upon ordinary people who follow Sikhi and Gurus message!!

These politcal-Amritdharis are the worst of scum who have no right to impose their definition of sikhi on others!!

You are a sucker for small gratification. I was merely pumping you....just kidding...

# 113 DW .. Thank you Delhi, see how I sold you on many points so easily :)