The Shrinking Boundaries of Sikhism

AsatyaVivadi Jee:
Aap barrey hi vichitra prakar ke namoonay hai.

Sikh ka keval ek pehlo jo Sher Dil Jawano ko Pran nichawar karney ke pugg per le jaata hai...woh hai Sikhi Ka Adoll Pana evam apnee Anakh ko hamesha kayam rakhna.

Ye keval Ek Sikh hi samajh sakta hai baher ka intellectual nahee samajh saktaa.

agar Aaj ham Internet per Chat kar rahe hai uska sirf ek hi reason hai amritdhari/Keshdhari Sikho ki qurbania.

Warna hamara naam o nishan nahee tha.

Nanak Panthis dont exist but Khalsa Panth does. Ever wonder why?

Pardesi, you sound like my boss(executive on wall st).

After whole Ramayan is done, you come from some obscure place and summarize the whole Vaad-vivad/material in fine MS-Word editable text.
Isko kehte hai professionalism....kudos to you!

My first job was with Norwest Mortgage Minnesota as a consultant and there was a prevalent joke...

consultant is someone who borrows your watch to tell you the time and then walks away with it....I dont know why but your post reminded me of the same.

First of all DM sahib, thanks for organizing this world wide sangat meeting with nice feedback from our non-sikh friends :).

In order to position us for longer term, we must all agree that:

1. We all are EQUAL in the eyes of almighty - whether we choose to sport beard/turban or not AND no matter which caste we belong to. Let's not forget, we live in the age of equal citizenship rights whether we are in the west or India. No one will like to go to Gurudwara on sunday to become second class sikh.

2. We will always pay respect to all the Ks that were necessary 300-400 years back (to get organized for huge mission to fight oppression) and as a token of respect for 10th guru SGGS who motivated us do what's right at any cost.

3. We need to realize that caste system is very very deep in our psyche and it will take many generations to root it out. Therefore let there be many gurudwaras and let people go wherever they feel happy and welcome. Over time we will visit different gurudwaras and learn some thing form each other.

4. The fact that we are asking our hindu friends to give us some space for our own growth in order to feel secure within our own identity (especially after events of 1984) does not mean that we are denying our indian roots or for many of us hindu roots (there were many muslims who converted also). Over time, hopefully, we can repair the damage done as long as we ALL (sikhs, hindus, delhi rulers who are experts at playing hardball against each other without any thought about consequences) learn from our mistakes.

5. The toughest part will be how to deal with SGPC issues and who is authorized to vote and how these various gurudwara leaders will vote. This will take time and lots of tolerance will need to develop between various sikh "branches". Let's leave these issues for next generation :)

I should add:

Net-net a BIG thumbs up for Sikhs and Sikhism.

Sikhism and Sikhs:
Thumbs up:
Simplicity of Religion and Lack of Rituals
Lack of superstition
Dignity of Labor
Courage of Convictions
Thumbs down:
Keeping long hair,turbans and other silly traditions and rituals (Anachronistic and silly in the present scenario; justified when originally proclaimed by Guru Gobindsinghji)
Paranoia about Hindus/Haryanvis etc
Sense of being owed to by everyone and especially Hindus

I think that we should replace all SGPC and Sikh leadership with proper amritdharis, who show the Rehat Maryada at sustaniable pace for at least 10 year time period.

A committee governed by Sikh code of conduct from original Maryada should deem the present day status of these leaders and replace them if lacking in Sikh values.

Committe membership itself is scrutinised on a monthly basis with rotation.

For Panthic and community related matters, all Sikhs(Sehajdhari or otherwise) should register on Sikh website(TBD) and collectively give votes to important matters(kinda like French and Anglaise debate in Quebec)

We do need reform but for betterment not for conforming to the World.

Otherwise take it or leave it.

dude you are something.
you are the one who is attacking Sikhi everyday on chowk not I.

I understand that in Pyschology they teach how to make a point without criticizing others but in DESI world it never works.

Arya Samajis and Hariyanvi's are anti-Sikh and that is what it is... comprende senor!!

delhiwala

no use of pointing fingers at external forces--arya samaj or haryanvis or RSS or whatever. The faults lie within and thats where the corrective measures are needed.

Sikhi has never succumbed to any pressures from outside - thats rather what has always made us stronger. Mughal period was the wort period for sikhi and thats when sikhi became strongest.

based on drlokraj's logic, Khalsa will be finished or at best reduced to Monks(like in Spanish abbeys).
wow....

What a price Sikhi has to pay for someone to adjust in West for quick dates, and not explain himself periodically...

this is what Guru Gobind Singh Jee sacrificed his children for???

the hindu folks should keep in mind that sikhs are a small minority in india. And like all small minorities they are in some danger of being swallowed up by the majority population, especially as hindu-sikh family relations are routine. So naturally, there is some going to some anxiety and upsettedness, and yes, rigidity as well.

So why dont some of the hindu-sikh same-same fellows come up with some scheme for preserving the traditional or orthodox sikh roop with dastar and beard and so on? How can that be encouraged? I think that would definitely help with sikh feelings of being marginalized.

Sheru,
Khalsa is part of sikhi and thats what it should remain- just one part and attaining that level has to be individual achievment based on the deeds, devotion and willingness to bring onesef to that level, I don't think it needs to be advertised. I feel the creation of hierarchy within sikh fold based on this factor is detrimental and is sure to drive people away specially when highly derogatory terms like 'patit' are used to describe them. Taking amrit or not is an individual's personal decision and should not determine a sikh's social position within the community.

Weather in Ottawa was rain off-and-on until yesterday, but it is nice and sunny today. But it is still cool for this time of the year.

Sure, give me a call before you arrive. Maybe we can go to the gurudwara together and listen to the ragi-jatha from Srinagar.

How is the weather in Ottawa?
I am planning on going to 1000 Islands, I might make a detour and have your darshan(if you like).

delhiwala:

Your cousin is not unique. I would suggest that you read Shauna Singh Baldwin's excellent novel "What the Body Remembers". It tells the story of two brothers, one of whom is made a Sikh by his father and the other turns into an arya samaji.

Amrit Sanchar should be available anywhere there are Panj Piyare available.

In fact we should also change the ceremony and promote it, instead of keeping it private.

Because our youngsters do not see Amrit Sanchar, they would not even know about it.

If they see it, they will develop interest. Many young kids in West are keeping hair when their parents dont.
Especially in UK and Canada.

DM Sir,
My cousins (Sial family), whose Grand Father was a Amritdhari Sikh, are now Hindus.

After the 1984 riots, one of them casually asked me how did I manage to survive and said a stupid Sardar joke comparing Sikh to an Ostrich or something like that.

If my own blood, who is an Arya Samaji, then how much hatered is prevalent among them due to their scriptures and fake Swamis.

Another example is actor Dharmender Deol, who is a pucca Arya Samaji.