Talk English, Walk English

Shoaib,

The point I was making was that there need not be any hypocrisy born out of guilt of using a "foreign" tongue/some warped superiority complex based on our firm belief that anything Indian is better than anything non-, which are the two main objections people have to making English language compulsory in schools, etc.

But I understand what you're saying.

Amazing article!!!...I think this is one issue on which both Pakistanis and indians will agree cox the situation is no different in Pakistan...but at this stage I think the common man can do nothing xcept learn english cox after all he has to put food on the table, doesnt he?

Shoaib,

A good and relevant article.

I wonder if the potential of many intelligent and creative students across the villages in India speaking in different native tongues can be utilised if english is required in higher education. Perhaps it would be better to instruct them in their respective native languages and not instill a fear of lack of english. Most non-english educated people become diffident and cannot pursue further studies despite being good at their subjects.

Adios

Dost Mittar saab,

Choice of English as the official language is a political compromise. Let's not disturb the apple cart.

Fair enough and as I’ve mentioned in #41 I have no issues if English just remains as the official language of the Union Govt. Of India for purely utilitarian reasons as French is to the EU.

My problem is, as burpinder pointed out, that you need to know English to even get a half-decent job in India, a country where only a microscopic minority knows the language and learning the language is a huge investment in time and money that few in the country can afford.

burpinder saab,

Shoaib, the piece is well written and you have every right to your opinion, but face it, refusing to use English on the pretext that it is the language of our former colonial masters is like a Mexican refusing to speak Spanish, for similar reasons.

Fair point; that is why I have not used this as an argument. My problem with English is the elite status that is enjoys and effectively acts as (yet another) massive barrier to social mobility. Who introduced it is not important in this context.

You wouldn't get a half-decent job at the Indian Railways or Steel Authority, let alone TCS and Wipro, if you insisted on using only your native language.

Exactly! Why do I have to know English, a language spoken by barely 8% (1st, 2nd and 3rd language) of Indians to get a “half-decent job� in India? Why are “decent jobs� only open to 8% of Indians? Imagine the uproar in Europe if decent jobs were only open to speakers of German.

Face it, most Indian languages are not contemporary- probably the most technical term in Hindi most students know is "sanganak" (computer). How do you convert broadband? Software? Embedded software? Extraction, transformation, loading? Facebook? Twitter?

Incidentally, a fair number of terms encountered when learning science in English are of Greek or Latin origin.

Technical vocab is a red herring. If need be let us call an atom an atom (Greek). But let’s explain what an atom is in a language that a child will be most receptive too.

Re: # 35 Nkg

Aardu/oordu lyrics are immitated by more Bangalis in the form of Kishore later songs

Sharukh has bangali fans greater than combined of Past Uttam Suchitra Soumitro even in Kolkata

You bangal hate oordu b/c they ousted you from East as refugees
Btw DhanDaulat Inqilab are ooordu derived !

shoaib:

Choice of English as the official language is a political compromise. Let's not disturb the apple cart.

the problem i find learning science in the vernac is that the overzealous torch bearers have ended up with tongue twisters that would need another childhood to learn...

Shoaib, the piece is well written and you have every right to your opinion, but face it, refusing to use English on the pretext that it is the language of our former colonial masters is like a Mexican refusing to speak Spanish, for similar reasons. I don't think anybody is stupid enough to claim that NOT knowing English is better for your prospects, not just internationally but ironically, within India as well. You wouldn't get a half-decent job at the Indian Railways or Steel Authority, let alone TCS and Wipro, if you insisted on using only your native language.

Face it, most Indian languages are not contemporary- probably the most technical term in Hindi most students know is "sanganak" (computer). How do you convert broadband? Software? Embedded software? Extraction, transformation, loading? Facebook? Twitter?

So all this bullshit about English being elitist is just a political ruse that isn't going to fool the masses forever. If everyone learned English in school, at any level, it would do wonders for our prospects as a whole. Failing that, let's adopt Mandarin and beat the Chinese at their own game :)

Before Independence, when people needed to learn English to negotiate with the British, UP and Bihar produced National leaders.

What with Hindi as the only language (show me one UPwallah or Bihari bhaiyya who actually adhered to the 3-language formula by learning Hindi, English and ANY OTHER Indian language) in the BIMARU states, they now produce Lallu Prasad Yadav and Mayawati.

Please continue learning only Hindi.

The South Indians -- with their long work schedule as highly paid code coolies -- need cooks, household cleaners, ayahs, maids, errand runners and watchmen for their households.

All you North Indians who insist on learning only Hindi fill the role admirably.

The unfortunate thing is that these guys install flush toilets in their homes. Otherwise you North Indians would also be employed as shit-carriers in Chennai and Bangalore.

The language issue has been settled with Three Language Formula and nobody has any objection to it. The 3-Languages are English-Hindi-Regional Language.

But I strongly feel that in Hindi Speaking States the 3-Languagues should be English-Hindi-Urdu. As is the present practice, Sanskrit need not be taught to the school children. Sanskrit should be replaced with Urdu. Though nobody has guts to do it.

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You ask a number questions and provide single word yes/no type answers.

Please list out the questions that you require detailed answers to and I’ll do my best to answer them.

In general what will happen to a single language is that it will eventually separate - like Latin did, and Sanskrit has done. Uniformity of language is never possible - for even within say English - the English of the Aussies is pure awful to my ears, as are some of the the other dialects - apart from the usage of specific words, and (your fav term) "neologisms".

Dashda, why are you stuck with the evolution of language? This write-up is about English being (hopefully) replaced by the languages of India and the socio-economic effects of the preponderance of English, not a study in language evolution.

And btw, it’s highly unlikely that neologisms would cause you to like or dislike any dialect of English. You or anybody, for that matter, wouldn’t even know of 99.99% of the neologisms in whatever English you speak much less being aware of the neologisms in another form of English.

Your questions regarding the EU are marginally way off - the EU's official language of transaction is French - with translations to English and German and other inconsequential languages.

Actually, IMO this fact, if anything reinforces my point of us following the EU model. FYI, the Central Govt has two official languages, English and Hindi. Now, if English was just to be used as a utilitarian means of communication between governments (centre and state) much as a you say French is in the EU, I wouldn’t have any problems at all.

Unfortunately, Indians do not treat their official language as just a utilitarian tool as the Europeans do. Throughout India, no matter what your native tongue, you’ll get a huge boost if you can converse in English. No such advantage exists for a French speaker in Europe (other than France, of course).

NKG,

Hindi, in it's current avatar, is more of aardoo/Urdooo than Sanskrit and it does not connect with any other language of India...

This statement makes no sense, really. Most people would consider Urdu and Hindi to be registers of the same language. It’s equivalent to saying Sadhubhasha is more of Chalitbhasha, if you get my drift.


Furthermore, Hindi is not the descendent of Sanskrit, as it lacks treasures (literature) like that of Bengali, Oriya, Marathi, Malaylum, Tamil and Kannada...

Maybe what you’re trying to say is that Bengali uses fewer foreign loan words than Hindi/Urdu which is certainly correct but Sanskrit’s influence is often overestimated, IMO, in the spoken language.

Bengali also does have its fair share of foreign loan words from out west such as Khobor, aeena, bAba, bAchcha etc.

Interesting, Bengali has been heavily influenced by Portuguese perhaps more than English even. Kedara (propah bong word for chair in case all you’ve heard it chear), janla, mej, ata (Custard Apple/Shareefa/Sit Phal) etc are all Bong words whose etymologies can be traced back to Portuguese.

So what’s the alternative? Should Hindi be imposed instead of English? Hardly. In my opinion, no one single language should be imposed. India, for better or for worse, just isn’t a single language country. Maybe we could learn something from the EU. Some people would want the EU to become a federation in the near future. Then would one language be imposed through Europe? Would students of History in Germany be forced to study the history of WW2 in English? I hardly think so. So why impose that burden on India, whose people are many times poorer than those in the EU and, therefore, much less suited to take on the burden of learning a foreign tongue?

You ask a number questions and provide single word yes/no type answers. In general what will happen to a single language is that it will eventually separate - like Latin did, and Sanskrit has done. Uniformity of language is never possible - for even within say English - the English of the Aussies is pure awful to my ears, as are some of the the other dialects - apart from the usage of specific words, and (your fav term) "neologisms".

Your questions regarding the EU are marginally way off - the EU's official language of transaction is French - with translations to English and German and other inconsequential languages.

The usage of language is not dependent on money neither is imposition. It is dependent on the efficiency of communication in order to earn your daily bread.

(let me give you an example - the number of Rich Middle Class Indian and Pakistanis - picking up on the worst forms of culture and language in the US and UK (mainly crap and worthless red-neck stuff) and thinking it is the right stuff is unbelievable. They never seem to emulate the middle classes of these nations - so it is not money, but something else - and it is this something else which many forget in the arguments on languge. Lord Macaulay lives on in this world!)

vengatramanan,

leave out the French and the developed westerners...im talking about the rest of the world...or the 3 world...

I’m glad you recognize that notions of liberty and freedom are not held hostage to a particular language although economic development might have a huge part to play in their development.