Can Pakistan unplug itself from the Matrix?

Re: # 300

"Indians need to forget "historic grievances"."

Now I doubt you are even a sikh......

do you remember your ardas??

Ardas itelf is remembrance of all the martyrs who were part of the spiritual family of Sikh Gurus.....

If you forget their sacrifices in order to preserve their spiritual lineage by refusing to convert to Islam then I doubt you can claim even that half-sikh status!!

As for the rest of you slinging gobs of mud from both sides of the Radcliffe line; what can I say? Only this; while it may feel very manly to trade verbal barbs while you all don your imaginary military uniforms and strut around, admiring your respective figures in front of imaginary mirrors, the reality of war is unfortunately much less glamorous.

I would recommend first reading an old classic called ‘All quiet on the western front’ by Erich Maria Remarque for a small dose of reality about the modern day war before you go shooting off your mouth about Panipat one or two or three.

South Asia has been fortunate so far that it has not faced a prolonged war in centuries. Most of these battles you all speak off were just that; battles. Wars in general are (to quote a practitioner of this ancient art) ‘pure hell’ and 20th century onwards only X100 times more so. This is the day and age of the total war; in which ‘total’ is the operative word. Go ask the Prussian general staff of the Wehrmacht or the recent veterans of the Vietnam or the Iran-Iraq wars what that means.

For those of you who can not stop extolling the valor of afghan warriors, consider that centuries of warfare in this ancient land has left behind a destitute nation of illiterate children and amputee adults. Stories abound of girls as young as 12 or 13 prostituting themselves for the equivalent of the money an American family leaves behind as a tip after a Sunday’s lunch; just so that there families can survive.

For those of you who quote the examples of history to justify theories of racial superiority; may be you should read the cautionary statement that comes with your 401k letter;
‘Past performance does not grantee future successes'.

The last proponent of racial superiority of one race over another blew his brains out more than 70 years ago holed up in a bunker like a rat while armies of inferior races burnt his 1000 years Reich to the ground above him.

If you all can for a moment look beyond this hatred filled fishbowl called the chowk, consider there were other things that were happening in the outside world at the times you all recall with glory of warfare alone;

1526 : First printed bible comes to England. Da Vinci had already painted the Mona Lisa, The Spanish were busy charting the new world.
1565 : Vesalius had already dissected and described the human body.
By 1761 so much had happened in arts, science, literature, philosophyelsewhere that South Asia was not even in the running anymore. Yet we were still going at each other, with imported technology like barbarians; having learnt nothing, forgotten nothing!!

Now if all of the above makes for a very proud reading; then be my guest; continue your mud fight while a modern day Kipling whistles under his breath “East is East and West is West….” And passes you by, shaking his head; thoroughly amused.

Regards.

Hindu Sikh; Son, if you must have a little intellectual release after finishing reading Guyton from cover to cover then perhaps re-read Discovery of India; it is a pleasure to read even multiple times. Alternatively read either a recent Nehru biography by Shashi Tharoor or else a short article called Two Indias by Ramchandra Guha in the Journal called ‘The national interest.’ I promise it will be much more stimulating than this gutter language you are picking so fast.

I stumbled on this site by sheer accident and to say that I am shocked is an understatement. What do we have here?

Some names that I recognize: Majumdar and Riaz Haq; finding you gentlemen here in this mud fight is like catching your favorite high society icons drinking hooch at the country liquor store!! Aren’t you guys wasting your talent here? Or is this some kind of a bawdy release after a hard day’s work? Whatever it is; I know you both are better than this.

Re: # 303 hindui_sikh {PS-to all the hindus that read this post,i wish to convey my gratitude for helping my community in wriggling out of the mess of the 1980's. Manmohan singh's primeministership fires my imagination like nothing else.He may not have won an election but he is still high up there ,with JLN ,as my role model.}

"All's well that ends well". That summarises the hindu-sikh mess in the 80's.

I am least bothered about MMS's exploits in elections or mass following with oratory skills etc. But I know that he is "head and shoulders above the rest" all leaders in our country at the moment to lead it. I hope the congress and the people give him the third term as well.

Matreex,you are saying that talibs arestauncher version ofsikhs..... I can waste a lot of time in disputing you,but i have other pressing matters to do

But yes ,you keep playing with this psychedelic matrix thing.In megalomania behen mayawati is a cruder version of yourself.Both refer to themselves in third person....

#303
People read history for description of what happened, I on the other hand, ask why it came to be. Sikhs are a product of space created by a decadent empire weakened by infighting and local society divided by religious divisions. It was a religious reform movement turned militant and ended up on Takhat Lahore. Much later, it forgot its reform foundation, its militancy cost it the exclusive political space. So Sikhs have come full circle. Is there another cycle? Not in near future.

As far as Taliban are concerned they are of similar genre but much more extreme.

Matrix operates at a different level, seeks players who matter. Not here to put down anybody.

Reply matrix,
Since you have accused my community of being the equivalent of the talibs a few centuries back,can you please give me the details that support your assertion? Sir enlighten me about Sikhism ,please...




PS-to all the hindus that read this post,i wish to convey my gratitude for helping my community in wriggling out of the mess of the 1980's. Manmohan singh's primeministership fires my imagination like nothing else.He may not have won an election but he is still high up there ,with JLN ,as my role model.

Re: # 301
Sikhs and Taliban have nothing in common. Just because people in West can't differential between the two, does not mean the same.

Some points to Ponder
Talibans are destroying thier own homeland. Since they came in power all they brought was misery. Where as Sikhs bring prosperity where ever they go.
Sikhs are known for hardwork and respect for other's god. They are welcomed in all community. Where as Talibans are bigots. Talibans hate every where except Jihadi cheer leaders.

I could write 100 such things but it would be waste of time.

#300 As a medical student you are outside the system. Matrix requires people with high emotional energy. Good luck.

By the way do you know that Sikhs were Taliban of their time.

Hello, this is my first interact at Chowk.I am a freshman at Maulana azad medical college, Delhi-2.
Romair , i really liked your Bhagwan comments.I guess you are just being funny .I have no problems with former moslem rulers of India per se but i do not like the way some of them persecuted hindus and sikhs and the zest with which they broke temples(even the khajaraho temple above all!!!).I certainly do not have a problem if a India gets a democratically elected muslim prime minister (which will be a boon as far as symbolism goes !)
Shankar, like you i also want to get a residency in the USA five and a half years later
Goldfinger,can Pakistan unplug itself from the Matrix?
Laddu, you have a cute name but please refrain from saying anything communal.Please remember that if India has to progress and attain its rightful place i n the hierarchy of the World, Indians need to forget "historic grievances".So, Hindus of INdia(i am 0.5 hindu and 0.5 sikh)need to bury any animosity they keep for their fellow moslem citizens , remembering that the essence of Hinduism can be summed up as Tolerance of the Other and NonViolence Sorry for pontificating...
Riaz Haq,pak aluma worldwide, lal salaam. I have good wishes for your nation as long as it does not terrorize Indians
Masadi, after having read your posts(i have read 7 chowk converations in all), i must say i love you
YLH,you ahmadi shyster, you rude son of a bi@@@,i hate you.You are an irrational worshipper of evrything associated with jinnah(right from his ciggi brand to preity zinta, his great grand WOULD BE DAUGHTER IN LAW) YOu do not see reason, and you are a great spin doctor.....You will meet your comeuppance very soon.But still thanks for recommending chowk.

Re: # 97 tahmed32 says: "Prof. Riaz: These Indians should indeed be thanking Pakistan for saving your miserable hides from the taliban."

Yes we are thankful now that your army has started fighting the talibans. But there is always a lingering doubt if you would completely wipe out these terrorists or do a selective job until the US pressure is there. Also it started only when the talibans started hurting the Pak cities did you realise the problem.

Anyway "Der aaye durust aaye". You are on the right path. Keep it up.

Re: # 109 Riaz says: "You Indian arms buildup and troops concentrations on Pak border are a major distraction for Pakistani military. By removing such distraction, you will be doing yourself a favor, letting Pak military concentrate on defeating the Talibs"

I am in full agreement with your thoughts that it is time now, when the Pak army must fully eliminate the taliban and all the terrorists (LeT, JeM etc.) killing innocent people be in Pakistan or in India.

The army reductions on both sides of the border can be mutually discussed and tensions reduced, but that should not be the pre-condition to defeat the common enemy (terrorists)

First, we have to ask, why Pakistan is in such a matrix? Consistency in democratic processes should be maintained at any cost.

Re: # 290

jang sahib...actually Hunters were a better aircraft then the F=86 Sabres...Hunters were the equivalent of F-100, the so-called Super Sabre, and I heard the Brits were pretty upset at the drubbing the Hunters got from the Sabres...the Gnats were also much more manueverable then the Sabres...also the Mig 21s were a whole lot better than the F-104 Starfighters...the F 104 came to be known as The Flying Coffin internationally, because it was an extremely treacherous aircraft to fly, however they say that the Indians were really scared of them in those days.

Re: # 280

raj71 sahib...I do not agree with this assumption of yours...MM Alam, and other PAF pilots feats are well documented internationally, but now if you wish to maintain that the day is in fact night and night is day, then it means no matter what you do not wish to agree with any realities...however with regard to following....

Re: # 283

You are at last talking a little bit of sense, even though here too you couldn't help taking a dig at Pakistan by pointing fingers only at Pakistan...however I could agree that both sides have been messing with each other unduly, and that a saner method, with more wise people at the helm of affairs could probably handle things more maturely...however if they don't and every one continues going the same destructive path, the ultimate end could only be MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction.