Jaswant Speaks Out

Ref Mullah32 #53

[Pew #34/35: I think Jinnah's earlier association with the Congress and his post-Khilafat Movement disillusionment was never a secret the past 60 years. Jaswant Singh simply chose, like other Indian politicians as well as lesser lights, to ignore this.

Like all fools, Indians are now doing what the wise man would have done right away (i.e. be honest) - except they are do it much later and after incurring much greater cost. Much later being 60 years in case of Jaswant Singh, the cost being three generations raised amidst lies.]

"Hindus and Muslims are two different Nations and cannot live together" - Holy Truth as propounded by Jinnah-bhai.

But then giving Jinnah-bhai his demand of a separate homeland is somehow not actually correct. Nehru and Patel should have read Jinnah-bhai's mind and decided all that he wanted was a Federal constitution and just given him and the Muslim League all of Punjab, all of Bengal, all of Assam, in addition to Sindh, Balochistan, NWFP and probably Central Provinces and United Provinces too so that he can walk out of the Federation ten years later with 100% more territory than he ended up with.

The truth is Jinnah-bhai was a shyster who was too clever by half. He said India must be partitioned because Muslims cannot live with Hindus. The Congress finally got tired of his bullsh!t and said that Bengal and Punjab must be partitioned too since by Jinnah-bhai's own admission the Bengali Muslims and Punjabi Muslims cannot live with the Bengali Hindus and Punjabi Hindus respectively.

You know what they say: be careful what you wish for because you may actually get it.

Jinnah-bhai got exactly what he wished for: a land where where murderous motherfcukers can be segregated. Soon, they will not even be allowed to travel out of their country on their green passports -- because nobody else will let them in -- except to go to Mecca and have their murderous fancies reinforced.

Ref shankar #42

[Check out ylh's opinion in The News. That kid has really matured since we knew him on chowk.]

Yep.

I read his crap.

So, Jinnah is the Father of India. And that is why India is following a secular consitution.

And the caste-ist fascist pig Gandhi is the Father of Pakistan. That is exactly why Pakistan is fcuked up.

Has he got anything else to say?

Re: # 53 Tahmed

I think that you are being condescending when you refer to Indians or Pakistanis as being 'fools'. The facts are that at the time of the Partition negotiations, only a few select leaders were involved, and the Partition formula was never put to a popular vote. It would not have passed had it been voted on.

Most people were quite taken aback by what ensued and its rapidity.

The decisions that were made then could not have been objectively analyzed in the wake of the euphoria of Independence and the Partition holocaust.

For the last sixty years, both sides have stuck stubbornly to their own myths about origins, and are still playing out the communal politics of the 1940s. If Jaswant's book helps to ease that tension, it will be a good thing. I know that my own views have undergone a change in the past year or so after having read the books that I mention below.

You are right that what Jaswant has stated is nothing new. Ayesha Jalal and HM Seervai basically said the same thing 15 years ago when new material came to light.

However, there were those in India and the Congress who urged accommodating Jinnah then (for example, Gandhi, C Rajagopalarchari who was India's first Governor General, and Maulana Azad), and who would agree with Jaswant. So, not all 'Indians are now doing what the wise man would have done right away' as you put it, is not exactly true.

It took the US nearly 200 years to realize that 'All men are created equal' included slaves. It is good that a reappraisal of Jinnah in India is underway now. In the wake of the bloodbath of Partition, this was not possible, and I can understand that.

As regards your comments on Khilafat Movement, I do not think that that was the principal reason as to why Jinnah espoused Pakistan. It did lead to a falling out with the Congress, but you cannot draw a straight line from there to Partition. In other words, Congress support for Khilafat alone was not a deal breaker for Jinnah.

On the other hand, I think that he was constantly looking for a deal, and that Nehru/Patel rejected it. You could not have expected the Nehru clan to have written history that acknowledges this, would you? It needed someone from the Opposition who did not have the Hindutva baggage (e.g. Jaswant Singh, Yashwant Sinha, etc.) and would not be afraid to mince words even if it means criticizing Congress stalwarts.

Incidentally, most of the textbooks in India were written by those appointed by the Nehru clan.

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Re: # 54 sri ram mullah32

yes yes we go that the first time... indians actually give a f** about what your accusations.... LOL

btw, in #53 below, I mention the foolishness among Pakistanis as well not because it is directly relevant to Indians distorting history on Jinnah, but simply in order to set your mind at ease that I dont just pick on Indians.

Pew #34/35: I think Jinnah's earlier association with the Congress and his post-Khilafat Movement disillusionment was never a secret the past 60 years. Jaswant Singh simply chose, like other Indian politicians as well as lesser lights, to ignore this.

Like all fools, Indians are now doing what the wise man would have done right away (i.e. be honest) - except they are do it much later and after incurring much greater cost. Much later being 60 years in case of Jaswant Singh, the cost being three generations raised amidst lies.

If the above seems a harsh criticism of Indians - it is justified I think. And Pakistanis are obviously being even bigger fools - they are 150 years late (and not there even yet) in failing to understand the basics for "western civilization". Only now are they realizing, e.g., the incredible value of the democratic system and the rule of law that the British left behind - something the much reviled Nehru understood 63 years ago.

Re: # 51

harish,

do not make yourself judge, jury, executioner all rolled into one...the menace we have is on the way out...the general populace wish to do away with it seriously now...something that the people do not want can not last for long...so things will start getting better soon as they already have...I know I'm from the region and you are from where you are...and I do hope it turns for the better for your poverty stricken millions too someday...as you say...I have no hard feelings for the poor masses and the dispossessed...its sad...however the self righteous and hateful ones need to be cut down to size where ever they be...

#49 by Goldfinger

people will deal with these problems if they rear their heads again...which is unlikely as the general populace is against the menace...however how does all this validate the problems I have already enumerated in # 46 which you have at your end?

Really? Like they did the last time? GF yaar, you're being far too optimistic. What is it that has changed over the last few years that we're unaware of? The FATA was taken over by religious nuts. The Paki army came in and are flushing them out because it is helping them rake in the moolah. Tomorrow, if it doesn't suit them, they will bring them back. The people can do squat about it. If they could have done something, wild Jihadis from as far as Saudia, Chechnya and Xinjiang wouldn't be running amok in FATA.

Coming to India's problems, it is one of poverty arising out of illiteracy and a general lack of opportunities. I'm not exactly claiming India is shining, but it is doing helluva lot better than it was doing 15 years back. As people start getting educated and more opportunities, things will look up. But what are you going to do about your own countrymen? You guys seem to be in a hurry to get back to the 7th century?

The point that Jaswant singh made in his book is that M.A.Jinnah was a symbol of hindu muslim unity but because the Indian congress leadership (who were denying the rights of muslims that Jinnah asked), Mr Jinnah went for the demand of Pakistan. 2nd He said. Jinnah was not a hater and was a secular person. His first minister of law was a hindu. He further wrote in his book that Jinnah was self made man than Gandhi and Nehru. Gandhi was a son of a diwan and Nehru was born with golden spoon in his mouth.

Jaswant singh criticised the picture of villain about Jinnah that is made after independence by indian media and education policy makers.

According to Jaswant Singh Jinnah was not a villain but a hero and the blame of partition should be given to Nehru and Vallabhai Patel.

Re: # 48

harish,

people will deal with these problems if they rear their heads again...which is unlikely as the general populace is against the menace...however how does all this validate the problems I have already enumerated in # 46 which you have at your end?

#46 by Goldfinger

Besides, the Taliban rule in the FATA is less about people's will and more about the Paki army's interests. Tomorrow, if the Paki army decided leaving them alone would serve their interests better, the Taliban will be back in a jiffy.

#46 by Goldfinger

Just in case you missed the news, Hakimullah Mehsud - considered to be even more brutal than Baitullah ever was - has taken over the Paki Taliban and has vowed revenge for Baitullah's death. So don't be celebrating so soon, at least not yet.

Re: # 45

harimau,

you are trying to indulge in conceited propaganda...the thugs have been kicked out of Swat...and people's lives are coming back to normal...I know being from the Frontier, and I have close friends from Swat...and Baitullah was dispatched to hell if you missed the news...however in what way should all of this make you proud of what I mentioned to you earlier...abominable poverty, hatred, corruption, hunger, illiteracy, thuggery of monumental proportions that abounds in your India...how about you...do you live and dodge trains on the rail road tracks? Do you fill and empty your gut in full view of the world on those rail road tracks? Do you have money to buy yourself razor blades to shave? If yes, consider yourself one of the few lucky ones out there.

Ref Goldfinger #41

[major..."under yoke of bedounism and baituallhism"...well actually nobody is living under that yoke...dream on, (while you are under the yoke of Hindutva/RSS supremacists)...]

As the New York Times said, Swat was/is under the control of the likes of Baitullah Mehsud. If the Indian Army was 60 miles from Islamabad, the Pak Army would have been mobilized. But with Mehsud or his ilk dictating what can happen in Swat, the Pak Army was sitting in its barracks.

And I suppose the Swatis and the rest of Pakistanis enjoy being flogged for being outside their home without a burqa.

That would not be the yoke of bedouinism or baitullahism but the Law as ordained by The Book to End All Books, al-Koran.

Good for you and your women.

PS. Are you still shaving your beard or have you stopped buying razor blades?