Story of Hindustani

Re: # 321
The word "Allah" occurs in the Qur'an much more frequently than the word "Rab". Please be careful with your facts.

Re: # 350

Shahji:

Sorry about the robbery and happy to learn that the culprits have been caught and all stolen goods recovered. Your police has really done an admirable job. In India, such a thing would be considered nothing less than a miracle.

On the language question, I am not a techie but I think that there is a transliteration facility in google which would change what you write in roman script into the Urdu script.

Stay well and safe.

Re: # 322

Ji dost mittar ji

Tusi sahii farmande o. Shaahyd mein tuhaanoon naein daseaa kih pichhli 14 august noon kuchh robbers ne saade ghar visit kita aur hor cheezaan to ilaawa mera personal lap top vi le gaey. Par saahdi police wi itni gaey guzri naein. Police ne sahde ik mobile toon oh daaku Islamabad toon koi
4,5 sow KM (400,500 KM) door Bhakar shehr wich trace kar ley. Chowdaan din bahd unhaan ne saahdi gadi (car) recover kar ke sanoon hand over kar diti aur koi mahine sawa toon bahd sahnoon apnrhaan laptop vi mil geya. Aur kamaal di kal eh ve kih sab jeezaan theek thaak si.

So dear, hunrh mein arrear kad rehaan waan chowk vowk de usi laptop te.

How I wished I could have written this Punjabi in Urdu Rasmulkhat. Is it possible?

Now I come back to the topic of Urdu/Hindi. A friend of mine who had visited Dehli told me this anecdote. He said that he was sitting with his host, a Hindu gentleman, in his home when the Hindi news came up on an Indian TV. As usual the annoucer started with, "Ab aap Hindi mein samachaar suniey." Upon this I asked my host whether the annoucer should not have rather more appropriately said, "Ab aap samachaar mein Hindi suniey" as I had heard the Hidi spoken by Akaashwani only on the electronic media. What was spoken by the people of Dehli was as good as Urdu.

Regards.

Re: # 321

An interesting point indeed! 'Allah' they say is the personal name of God and 'Rab' his 'sifaati' (attributive?) name. But rab is also used for 'administrator' or 'executive'. Again, Sura Fateh starts with "Alhamdolillah-e-Rabulaalimin". Here Allah has been described as rab also but that rab which is rab of all the worlds and not of Arabs or Muslims only, a very secular God indeed.

Sorry, I am getting off the track. Will come to the topic again later on.

Btw, it is said that when the Mecca was under attack by Ibrah or Abrah, Abd al-Mutalib, went away to baadia after telling the people not to worry as Allah himself will save his home, the Kaahba.

So my point remains intact as Allah or Rab saved Kaahbah, his home, only from attack by a non-Arab invader but did not do so when it was attacked a number of times by the Arabs themselves.

Regards
'

Razia, my apologies and no, I make no assumptions. In mentioning the Hindu-Muslim stereotypes, I was only voicing the perspective behind the "I am no child of Adam" comment.

#345 Razia ..agreed!
look forward to hear more such stories

ellora: who are you calling muslim? not everyone with an arabic last name would be a muslim y'know ! ;-)

ch0wkidar: Thank you for the summary.
I only have issue with point#2. In my opinion, neither is Urdu a language of MUSLIMS of India, nor it should be taken as written in "Islamic" script. One can argue that Islam is defined in/by Arabic, but not by every language written in Arabic script. As for Arabic religious terms, they are in Urdu just as the technological English terms are absorbed in the language because they are easier absorbed than painstakingly created!
#7 is painfully true, however some recent mixing of Punjabi and Pushto in Urdu of Pak is encouraging! :)

As we are coming to close of this discussion, I would like to conclude as follows:

1) The original Hindustani lost its future lineage due to "re-mixing"
2) Indian Muslim got a brand new language of their own, re-mixing was not a problem, since it had an Islamic script and the great Persian lineage
3) The current version is available in Devnagari and Persian sub titles
4) The Urdu version first divided its country of birth, then its patron's
5) Currently, both the versions are threatened by Englsih sub title
6) On literary side, the Devnagari version- if it wishes, is very sound and has a great resources in its humble Sanskrit ancestors, however, on the ground it is retro fitted with every passerby's language.
7) The literary version of Urdu seems to be in a dilemma, as Persia has lost its glory, and too much of Arabic may takeaway all it stood for. Morover, since it is used only to foreign royalties, any remixing with locals is strictly no no!

ellora ajeya aadmi bilkul nahi parantu manav awashya hai ;-)

there..neer ksheer viweketu, ordoo ka ordoo, hindi ka hindi

It wouldn't have made any difference had you said, "We are all Adam's children" or "We all came from Gogol's overcoat". :)

#339, 340: It is ironical that Razia has to explain the metaphorical expression 'son of adam' to Ajeya. Hindus are supposed to grasp the complexity of reality through the means of allegory, myth and metaphor. Muslims are supposed to be more literalist in understanding the world.

But reality is too subtle for such constructions. ;-)

Re: # 339
it was a figure of speech, not that I believe an "adam" existed. the story has been told so many times most people know about it..don't necessarily believe it.

#337 Posted by rhusain

[We are all Adam's children....]

Sorry to bring this up. But I'm not one of these "Adam's children". And neither are hundreds of millions in India. Not trying to be rude, but just stating facts. Thank you.

rhusain: my point in referring to the cow was that the influence of language is not in isolation - it is part of a broader cultural influences resulting from migration. Nor do I think can you cast things in neat little boxes of the "last language borrowed from" (persian, to the exclusion of others, per your theory). Life is a bit more complicated than that.

Re: # 335
don't understand your point here. We are all Adam's children yet we are known by our own parents' name. All languages have roots 10,000+yrs old, but we only ref. the last language we borrowed the word from. I was only stating that 'namaz', for example, is a zoroastern term for prayers and Urdu got it from persian to describe the Islamic prostrative prayers. where did the cow come from??