Sohail Rabbani January 30, 1998
#18 Posted by aquaris on October 10, 1999 11:32:00 am
...I have been in Lahore...since Sep89...compelled to live Here...after what was happening to Karachi During MQM glory..
..And Now its a LOVE Hate relation...Love the serenity..the greenry..and crocked planning of the city.. Yet Hate Lahori Mentality..To Explain what it is...Let me tell you Of one experience which any one, any where in Lahore can have.
..Where I live..it On the Main Road at Dubai Chowk..
Now any one familiar with it can tell you that we love to Break Laws..(perhaps to get even with politicians who break the law with more impunity and arrogance..and with more serious consequences for the country)..So every One uses about 200meter of wrong side driving to get to the Flats which are on the righthand side of the Road..But that is not the point..
..One day..as Usual One Burly Lahori..In his White Large Corolla..did the same..He turned Right from in Front Of Bundu Khan to go wrong Way ..as he was going to the Flats or somewhere else...As he turned...One Old Man with a small girl was trying to cross the Road..As he had no clue that some one was about to come from Behind and of the wrong side..so he was not looking back..
..The Crolla Hit the Girl..But as the Car was not speeding..infact was moving very slow..So there was not serious..injry..But the Girl being small..and Hit.out of no where..Fell and started to Cry...
..Now the Real Part..which aptly..portays the general mentality There...That Fat Insensitive Man got out of his car...and got to the front...Looked in Fact checked His car BUMPER..to see the extent to damage..of hitng on His car..and finding nothing of significat.. completly ignored the crying Girl..or the Shocked Old man and asked in all his innocenec... What Happened...
.....Now this is the mentality which has led Pakistan to where it is now...And is in all its Glory can be seen in all the Acts Of our Democratic KING of Raiwind..with the heaviest of Mendate in Human History....
...As He in all his innocence..Always asks ..Why are the people not happy with me...
..And Now its a LOVE Hate relation...Love the serenity..the greenry..and crocked planning of the city.. Yet Hate Lahori Mentality..To Explain what it is...Let me tell you Of one experience which any one, any where in Lahore can have.
..Where I live..it On the Main Road at Dubai Chowk..
Now any one familiar with it can tell you that we love to Break Laws..(perhaps to get even with politicians who break the law with more impunity and arrogance..and with more serious consequences for the country)..So every One uses about 200meter of wrong side driving to get to the Flats which are on the righthand side of the Road..But that is not the point..
..One day..as Usual One Burly Lahori..In his White Large Corolla..did the same..He turned Right from in Front Of Bundu Khan to go wrong Way ..as he was going to the Flats or somewhere else...As he turned...One Old Man with a small girl was trying to cross the Road..As he had no clue that some one was about to come from Behind and of the wrong side..so he was not looking back..
..The Crolla Hit the Girl..But as the Car was not speeding..infact was moving very slow..So there was not serious..injry..But the Girl being small..and Hit.out of no where..Fell and started to Cry...
..Now the Real Part..which aptly..portays the general mentality There...That Fat Insensitive Man got out of his car...and got to the front...Looked in Fact checked His car BUMPER..to see the extent to damage..of hitng on His car..and finding nothing of significat.. completly ignored the crying Girl..or the Shocked Old man and asked in all his innocenec... What Happened...
.....Now this is the mentality which has led Pakistan to where it is now...And is in all its Glory can be seen in all the Acts Of our Democratic KING of Raiwind..with the heaviest of Mendate in Human History....
...As He in all his innocence..Always asks ..Why are the people not happy with me...
#17 Posted by jay on August 17, 1998 6:42:51 pm
This article gives me hope that there can be at last peace in the subcontinent. Accepting the the events as they are, viewing both sides of the conflict, calling a spade a spade, is an essential precondition for any raproachment in the subcontinent. This article could be published on the internet, the day it could be published in a national local language paper in Pakistan could be a major milestone, the dawn of realism in Pakistani politics.
The dismemberment of a country, particularly with the military assistance of another is very difficult to accept. An understanding of the circumstances, the essential nonviability of a single country comprising of two different cultures, divided by language and expanse of another country may make the inevitable end more palatable. Bangladeshis give more emphesis to their Bangali culture, Tagore, Satyjit Ray, and Mrinal Sen are not Indians, they are Bengalis first, and still dream of a great Bengal when the West Bengal is liberated from the Indian occupation. Pakistan, at least in recent times with the emphesis on Islam and the version supported by Taliban is moving further away from a more subtle and refined path persued by Bangladesh. More articles of this nature will help the subcontinent to accept the inevitability of history and to move on rather than to go back try to `correct` it.
The dismemberment of a country, particularly with the military assistance of another is very difficult to accept. An understanding of the circumstances, the essential nonviability of a single country comprising of two different cultures, divided by language and expanse of another country may make the inevitable end more palatable. Bangladeshis give more emphesis to their Bangali culture, Tagore, Satyjit Ray, and Mrinal Sen are not Indians, they are Bengalis first, and still dream of a great Bengal when the West Bengal is liberated from the Indian occupation. Pakistan, at least in recent times with the emphesis on Islam and the version supported by Taliban is moving further away from a more subtle and refined path persued by Bangladesh. More articles of this nature will help the subcontinent to accept the inevitability of history and to move on rather than to go back try to `correct` it.
#16 Posted by SR on August 16, 1998 9:23:51 am
To ALL:
Please forgive my reticence as I was out of town until very recently. This is an old posting and I wasn’t expecting to see it resurrected. I appreciate all your comments and have little to add over and above what’s already been written elsewhere. It wasn’t a complete article and I have explained this and more in Replies #8, #16 & #23, below.
I do want to comment on some points made by Mohammed (Aug-16-98 -1:35 PST Reply #: 28 ). He typifies the mentality of the ‘establishment hawks’ who have made as much a mess of things as we see today.
He writes: (“... Bangladesh would have ultimately went its own way regardless of any grievances - let`s face it Bangladesh was over a thousand miles physically removed from the body of West Pakistan-the events of 1971 cannot be painted in such a simplistic fashion. Had Pakistan quelled an internal rebellion in a timely manner at that time , history would be recorded differently...”)
Not only is this a self-contradictory statement, it openly reflects the arrogance and unrepentant attitude of establishment hawks. There are three excellent articles here on the front page today (by Zakk, Ashim Banerjee and Saima Shah) that beautifully expose the doings of those in the establishment who harbor such narrow mentality. These hawks are beyond reform and they will continue to do more damage until their wings are finally clipped. Exposing their contradictions and jaundiced views is the best antidote.
The naive view in the above statement is that we should have killed more Bengalis, and killed them earlier, and then it would have been a ‘happy ending’. It is an appalling notion but, sadly, one that is held by many who continue to subjugate the people.
Mohammed goes on to say: (“...after training, arming and supervising Mukhti Bahini (Bengali rebels) India worried that they would be unable to dislodge Pakistani troops from re-establihing law and order. Hence the Indian army was ordered in to finish off what they could not accomplish through their agents...”)
He appears to be taking moral high ground and expresses an indignant holier-than-thou attitude towards Hindustan because of its role in the Pak-Bharat interstate strife. He sounds like a sour loser who is only concerned about the wrong done towards his team, notwithstanding the fact that his own team tried the same but failed. Pakistani hawkish establishment has done the same thing (trained and armed ‘rebels’) in Kashmir, East Punjab and to a lesser extent in Tamil Nadu and Nagaland, as Hindustan did in East Bengal and more recently in Sindh. The difference is that Pakistan failed while Hindustan, in the Bengal instance at least, was successful.
This gentleman simply fails to see the parallel between Bengal and Kashmir. The only difference between the two is the geographic and military advantage which Hindustan enjoys that Pakistan did not. There is very little moral difference.
The root of evil here is nothing more than the plain fact that the state structure of the Indian subcontinent is fundamentally flawed. It is the same imperialist structure that the British established and the two daughter states adopted. Until and unless the centralized bureaucracies and the military establishments of the imperialistic states in New Delhi and Islamabad are not dismantled, peace and progress will never visit the Subcontinent.
Then see what he writes next: (“...We hear a lot of crap against our army but they were in fact following orders and the prime defective in any nation is to prevent anarchy...”)
This gentleman’s attitude reminds me of Brigadier R. E. Dyer who was the Martial Law Commander of Amritsar and on April 13, 1919, when he marched into Jallianwalla Bagh at the head of fifty soldiers and did what he latter called, “a jolly good thing”, by killing or wounding 1516 civilians in ten minutes of firing. He also thought he was “following orders.” So did the Nazi commander of the camp at Aushwitz and so did the Serb militants in Bosnia.
In their misguided attempt to “prevent anarchy” the na-Pak Fauj managed to destroy the country. And lets not forget, who was ruling Pakistan at the time? The generals, of course. Whose orders were they following? Their own, of course. Who is this guy trying to delude? Himself, of course.
At last he asked the question that the hawks like to ask with glee: (“...will someone tell me why illegal Bengali immigrants continue to flood Pakistan and Karachi in particular in such large numbers?...”)
Yes I will tell you, my friend. But for me to answer it YOU have to first answer the similar question which I ask below and you will get your answer by yourself.
Q: “...will someone tell me why illegal Pakistani immigrants continue to flood [insert country name from a long list of Middle East and Europe] in such large numbers?”
Its the economy, stupid!
Please forgive my reticence as I was out of town until very recently. This is an old posting and I wasn’t expecting to see it resurrected. I appreciate all your comments and have little to add over and above what’s already been written elsewhere. It wasn’t a complete article and I have explained this and more in Replies #8, #16 & #23, below.
I do want to comment on some points made by Mohammed (Aug-16-98 -1:35 PST Reply #: 28 ). He typifies the mentality of the ‘establishment hawks’ who have made as much a mess of things as we see today.
He writes: (“... Bangladesh would have ultimately went its own way regardless of any grievances - let`s face it Bangladesh was over a thousand miles physically removed from the body of West Pakistan-the events of 1971 cannot be painted in such a simplistic fashion. Had Pakistan quelled an internal rebellion in a timely manner at that time , history would be recorded differently...”)
Not only is this a self-contradictory statement, it openly reflects the arrogance and unrepentant attitude of establishment hawks. There are three excellent articles here on the front page today (by Zakk, Ashim Banerjee and Saima Shah) that beautifully expose the doings of those in the establishment who harbor such narrow mentality. These hawks are beyond reform and they will continue to do more damage until their wings are finally clipped. Exposing their contradictions and jaundiced views is the best antidote.
The naive view in the above statement is that we should have killed more Bengalis, and killed them earlier, and then it would have been a ‘happy ending’. It is an appalling notion but, sadly, one that is held by many who continue to subjugate the people.
Mohammed goes on to say: (“...after training, arming and supervising Mukhti Bahini (Bengali rebels) India worried that they would be unable to dislodge Pakistani troops from re-establihing law and order. Hence the Indian army was ordered in to finish off what they could not accomplish through their agents...”)
He appears to be taking moral high ground and expresses an indignant holier-than-thou attitude towards Hindustan because of its role in the Pak-Bharat interstate strife. He sounds like a sour loser who is only concerned about the wrong done towards his team, notwithstanding the fact that his own team tried the same but failed. Pakistani hawkish establishment has done the same thing (trained and armed ‘rebels’) in Kashmir, East Punjab and to a lesser extent in Tamil Nadu and Nagaland, as Hindustan did in East Bengal and more recently in Sindh. The difference is that Pakistan failed while Hindustan, in the Bengal instance at least, was successful.
This gentleman simply fails to see the parallel between Bengal and Kashmir. The only difference between the two is the geographic and military advantage which Hindustan enjoys that Pakistan did not. There is very little moral difference.
The root of evil here is nothing more than the plain fact that the state structure of the Indian subcontinent is fundamentally flawed. It is the same imperialist structure that the British established and the two daughter states adopted. Until and unless the centralized bureaucracies and the military establishments of the imperialistic states in New Delhi and Islamabad are not dismantled, peace and progress will never visit the Subcontinent.
Then see what he writes next: (“...We hear a lot of crap against our army but they were in fact following orders and the prime defective in any nation is to prevent anarchy...”)
This gentleman’s attitude reminds me of Brigadier R. E. Dyer who was the Martial Law Commander of Amritsar and on April 13, 1919, when he marched into Jallianwalla Bagh at the head of fifty soldiers and did what he latter called, “a jolly good thing”, by killing or wounding 1516 civilians in ten minutes of firing. He also thought he was “following orders.” So did the Nazi commander of the camp at Aushwitz and so did the Serb militants in Bosnia.
In their misguided attempt to “prevent anarchy” the na-Pak Fauj managed to destroy the country. And lets not forget, who was ruling Pakistan at the time? The generals, of course. Whose orders were they following? Their own, of course. Who is this guy trying to delude? Himself, of course.
At last he asked the question that the hawks like to ask with glee: (“...will someone tell me why illegal Bengali immigrants continue to flood Pakistan and Karachi in particular in such large numbers?...”)
Yes I will tell you, my friend. But for me to answer it YOU have to first answer the similar question which I ask below and you will get your answer by yourself.
Q: “...will someone tell me why illegal Pakistani immigrants continue to flood [insert country name from a long list of Middle East and Europe] in such large numbers?”
Its the economy, stupid!
#15 Posted by Mohammed on August 16, 1998 2:35:01 am
I think Dr. Rabbani has provided a very shallow analysis of the events of 1971. However the truth remains that it was a national tragedy that was initiated by our own mismanagement but ultimately carried out by an eager India which was waiting in the wings. Pakistan should do well to remember that unlike other nations we have an eastern neighbour which is commited to our destruction and is only too eager to foment and then take advantage of our internal problems. Although I personally believe that Bangladesh would have ultimately went its own way regardless of any grievances - let`s face it Bangladesh was over a thousand miles physically removed from the body of West Pakistan-the events of 1971 cannot be painted in such a simplistic fashion. Had Pakistan quelled an internal rebellion in a timely manner at that time , history would be recorded differently since history is the domain of the victor. There is considerable evidence to suggest that after training, arming and supervising Mukhti Bahini (Bengali rebels) India worried that they would be unable to dislodge Pakistani troops from re establihing law and order. Hence the Indian army was ordered in to finish off what they could not accomplish through their agents. We hear a lot of crap against our army but they were in fact following orders and the prime derective in any nation is to prevent anarchy. I for one have no regrets about letting Bangladesh pursue its own destiny as its people see themselves: as a Bengali people with a regional Bengali national identity. I think you are right when you say that Pakistanis could not bear to see themselves ruled by Bengalis who identified with a different culture despite their common religion. I think that Pakistanis must admit this honestly because the voting practices of East Pakistan was linked to regional Bengali issues and Bengalis were the majority population. I just feel that things could have been resolved in a less traumatic manner. Having said all this will someone tell me why illegal Bengali immigrants continue to flood Pakistan and Karachi in particular in such large numbers?
#14 Posted by raza on August 15, 1998 8:54:07 am
I think this article rekindles an old question (it is old with me at least); is democracy the system for us?? A country where there is a wide spectrum of races and tribes, and over this layer of race there are distinct social groups, democracy favours a few and not the majority.
I think that democracy in our country has always been used as a tool for obtaining power. In any scenario, upholding democracy has never been a priority, rather it has been a system which has been endorsed by a party when it suits it and rejected when it gives a rival the advantage. I think that the East Pakistan fiasco should be called a Mujib-Bhutto tussle more than a East Pak-West Pak battle. Here was a typical case where democracy was favouring Mujib while Bhutto and party were being required to take the opposition benches (this is what democracy boils down to, doesn`t it??). The outcome: a blatant denial of basic principles of democracy.
Looking at democracy macroscopically, it is a system where the people first come to believe in the rule of majority and once convinced on this idea, go ahead and select a group of people to represent their interests in the running of the government. Looking at our case, what happened was that those wbo already ruled (as feudals or industry barons or spiritual leaders) discovered that this system would suit their requirements best as their people would dare not disagree with them. Therefore, what we have is not a people`s democracy but more of a rulers` farce to endorse their ages old supremacy.
So, if the author of the article is lamenting the rape of democracy, before anything, he has to prove beyond doubt whether this was actually a people`s democracy. I ask the basic question, a question that arises even before taking sides on this issue: Was this a true democracy of the people or was Mujib`s majority as bad as any one of our leaders`; a result of bullying the weak and making false promises to the intellectuals???????
I think that democracy in our country has always been used as a tool for obtaining power. In any scenario, upholding democracy has never been a priority, rather it has been a system which has been endorsed by a party when it suits it and rejected when it gives a rival the advantage. I think that the East Pakistan fiasco should be called a Mujib-Bhutto tussle more than a East Pak-West Pak battle. Here was a typical case where democracy was favouring Mujib while Bhutto and party were being required to take the opposition benches (this is what democracy boils down to, doesn`t it??). The outcome: a blatant denial of basic principles of democracy.
Looking at democracy macroscopically, it is a system where the people first come to believe in the rule of majority and once convinced on this idea, go ahead and select a group of people to represent their interests in the running of the government. Looking at our case, what happened was that those wbo already ruled (as feudals or industry barons or spiritual leaders) discovered that this system would suit their requirements best as their people would dare not disagree with them. Therefore, what we have is not a people`s democracy but more of a rulers` farce to endorse their ages old supremacy.
So, if the author of the article is lamenting the rape of democracy, before anything, he has to prove beyond doubt whether this was actually a people`s democracy. I ask the basic question, a question that arises even before taking sides on this issue: Was this a true democracy of the people or was Mujib`s majority as bad as any one of our leaders`; a result of bullying the weak and making false promises to the intellectuals???????
#13 Posted by niyer on August 13, 1998 12:37:23 pm
Excellent article!! The history of `71 is a lesson to all of us Asians to not base national ideology on religion (or other prejudices). Taking your argument a step further, even the partition of the subcontinent, which was on the basis of religion was a bad idea. While the drama of Bangladesh unfolded and played itself out rather quickly this other drama will take a long time (and many lives) to play out, before Indians and Pakistanis realize they may have been better off living under one roof. We `desis` have an uncanny knack for falling for traps set by Western powers be it the British of yester years or the powers of today. Divide and rule works so well!!
#12 Posted by SR on February 11, 1998 1:42:51 am
RE: Saif Ahmed
You are right about the incompleteness of my summary of the 1971 events.
The so-called article was, in fact, an impromptu response to a certain Abidi sahib in the InterActive responses to the article about Beharis’. He used the words “traitors and enemies” in a related context and that evoked an emotional upsurge in me which resulted in a rather long ‘reprimand’. The editors of the Chowk, for whatever reason, posted my response as an article in itself. I would have surely done a little more homework if I’d know.
All the additions you made are welcome and I fully agree with them, especially the economic exploitation part. Thank you for filling in those gaps. Bravo, for pointing the finger at the English-speaking Quaid’s disastrous declaration regarding Urdu over Bengal. Arabic would have made more sense than Urdu. This was a language spoken by only 7% of the population, but that was the migrant elite from Central India.
Also, I would like to add that my facts were somewhat incorrect. East Pakistan was 54% of the population, not 53. The division of National Assembly seats was 162 vs 138. Awami League scored 160 out of 162 in the East and Bhutto’s PPP got 88 out of the 138 from the West.
The elections were held in December 1970 and after the results were announced Yahya Khan referred to Sheikh Mujib as the future Prime Minister. Then in January he announced that the Assembly will be called in session on March 3rd and then he canceled it in February and later still he announced the date of March 27th, probably to throw the Awami League off. The military crackdown started on the night of March 25/26th.
It must also be added that there were some people in the higher circles who opposed the criminal actions of the Pak Fauj. Admiral Ehsen who was the Governor of East Pakistan at the time of the election, was dismissed when the first signs of trouble began in February and he told Yahya Khan that power must be transferred to the elected representatives of the people. Lt. General Sahibzada Yaquob Ali, who was the Commander Eastern Zone was appointed Governor. Soon Sahibzada Yaquob was telling Yahya Khan the same thing. He was also dismissed and replaced by Tikka Khan.
Then later, the most thoroughly incompetent imbecile of them all, Ameer Abdullah Khan Niazi (a chamcha of General Hamid) was promoted to Lt. General and sent as commander eastern zone, and shortly thereafter Tikka Khan was recalled and a Bengali civil servant was appointed Governor. (Niazi has written a book in 1997, I’m curious.)
I had the occasion of meeting with general Sahibzada Yaquob at a friend’s apartment in Manhattan three years ago and interviewed him at length about the whole affair. According to him it was a very bizarre and surreal tragi-comedy going on in Islamabad. He blames mostly Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, Lt. General Pirzada’s (Principal Staff Officer to the President) and General Hamid’s (Chief of Staff) for doing what happened, since Yahya had simply taken leave of his faculties by that time. The PSO-P and the COS were bitter rivals and didn’t even speak to one another and Bhutto was the political opportunist playing them one against the other.
As far as your assertion is concerned that this (splitting up of Pakistan) was an inevitability, I do entirely agree with you. This is the basis of my thesis that the conceptual basis of Pakistan’s creation was flawed and 1971 simply proved that fact. I further assert that if there is any hope for the betterment of the people of that region we have to be honest and REDEFINE who we are and get rid of the ideological fiction which may have been expedient in 1947, but is very anachronistic today.
“Dhaka” is surely more phonetic than the anglicized “Dacca”, which, as you aptly noticed, I misspelled. Back in the school days I always lost spelling-bee contests. Thanks for the correction.
...SR
You are right about the incompleteness of my summary of the 1971 events.
The so-called article was, in fact, an impromptu response to a certain Abidi sahib in the InterActive responses to the article about Beharis’. He used the words “traitors and enemies” in a related context and that evoked an emotional upsurge in me which resulted in a rather long ‘reprimand’. The editors of the Chowk, for whatever reason, posted my response as an article in itself. I would have surely done a little more homework if I’d know.
All the additions you made are welcome and I fully agree with them, especially the economic exploitation part. Thank you for filling in those gaps. Bravo, for pointing the finger at the English-speaking Quaid’s disastrous declaration regarding Urdu over Bengal. Arabic would have made more sense than Urdu. This was a language spoken by only 7% of the population, but that was the migrant elite from Central India.
Also, I would like to add that my facts were somewhat incorrect. East Pakistan was 54% of the population, not 53. The division of National Assembly seats was 162 vs 138. Awami League scored 160 out of 162 in the East and Bhutto’s PPP got 88 out of the 138 from the West.
The elections were held in December 1970 and after the results were announced Yahya Khan referred to Sheikh Mujib as the future Prime Minister. Then in January he announced that the Assembly will be called in session on March 3rd and then he canceled it in February and later still he announced the date of March 27th, probably to throw the Awami League off. The military crackdown started on the night of March 25/26th.
It must also be added that there were some people in the higher circles who opposed the criminal actions of the Pak Fauj. Admiral Ehsen who was the Governor of East Pakistan at the time of the election, was dismissed when the first signs of trouble began in February and he told Yahya Khan that power must be transferred to the elected representatives of the people. Lt. General Sahibzada Yaquob Ali, who was the Commander Eastern Zone was appointed Governor. Soon Sahibzada Yaquob was telling Yahya Khan the same thing. He was also dismissed and replaced by Tikka Khan.
Then later, the most thoroughly incompetent imbecile of them all, Ameer Abdullah Khan Niazi (a chamcha of General Hamid) was promoted to Lt. General and sent as commander eastern zone, and shortly thereafter Tikka Khan was recalled and a Bengali civil servant was appointed Governor. (Niazi has written a book in 1997, I’m curious.)
I had the occasion of meeting with general Sahibzada Yaquob at a friend’s apartment in Manhattan three years ago and interviewed him at length about the whole affair. According to him it was a very bizarre and surreal tragi-comedy going on in Islamabad. He blames mostly Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, Lt. General Pirzada’s (Principal Staff Officer to the President) and General Hamid’s (Chief of Staff) for doing what happened, since Yahya had simply taken leave of his faculties by that time. The PSO-P and the COS were bitter rivals and didn’t even speak to one another and Bhutto was the political opportunist playing them one against the other.
As far as your assertion is concerned that this (splitting up of Pakistan) was an inevitability, I do entirely agree with you. This is the basis of my thesis that the conceptual basis of Pakistan’s creation was flawed and 1971 simply proved that fact. I further assert that if there is any hope for the betterment of the people of that region we have to be honest and REDEFINE who we are and get rid of the ideological fiction which may have been expedient in 1947, but is very anachronistic today.
“Dhaka” is surely more phonetic than the anglicized “Dacca”, which, as you aptly noticed, I misspelled. Back in the school days I always lost spelling-bee contests. Thanks for the correction.
...SR
#11 Posted by MAK on February 5, 1998 12:28:14 pm
Dear Dr. Rabbani:
I just ended up this superb article and commend you so much to let us know the real happening. I had heard `something` of our `brave` army but what had really happened never knew till todate. I encourage you to write more to enlighten the new generation so the odious faces of filthy politicians can be revealed.
I just ended up this superb article and commend you so much to let us know the real happening. I had heard `something` of our `brave` army but what had really happened never knew till todate. I encourage you to write more to enlighten the new generation so the odious faces of filthy politicians can be revealed.
#10 Posted by Syed Ahmed on February 2, 1998 11:51:35 am
I should have clarified by statements fully. I was not attempting to equate genocidal policies of the Pakistani commanders with allied atrocities of WWII. On the contrary I was trying to point out that Dictatorships ( a la Third Reich) were not the only perpetrators of genocidal actions,
democracies are not immune from it either.
democracies are not immune from it either.
#9 Posted by SR on February 2, 1998 8:46:37 am
RE: Syed
The difference between the examples you give from the Second World War and what went on in East Pakistan is that America was fighting a ``foreign war`` and Germany and Japan were strong adversaries in a multilateral war.
The fact that the US was engaged in demolishing tiny countries in the Far East may, on its own merit be worth condemning, but it does not compare with the barbaric actions of the Pak Fauj on its OWN people.
The only example in post-WW2 America is National Guard shooting of the Kent State student protesters. That almost brought the administration down. It was also almost am accident. Pak Fauj, on the other hand, was engaged in systematic and organized criminal enterprise to thwart the will of its citizens whom it was supposed to have ``protected``. There is no moral equivalence in the examples.
RE: N. Islam
The last 25 years have been spent ``protecting`` the younger generation from the truth in the name of Islam. There was a six-volume official report complied by the Hamood-ur-Rehman commission. That report contains every single detail. Of course, the report never saw the light of day. Mr. Hamood-ur-Rehman was the chief justice at one time. He was a patriotic Pakistani and originally from Bengal.
The power that be can still choose to release that report. No one wants to release it because it implicates everyone from Bhutto to all the army brass and the civil service gurus and the politicians. Truth suits no one because if truth were told, the uncomfortable reality will have to be faced that the foundation on which today`s so-called Pakistan stands is a Big Bag of Fat Lies.
The difference between the examples you give from the Second World War and what went on in East Pakistan is that America was fighting a ``foreign war`` and Germany and Japan were strong adversaries in a multilateral war.
The fact that the US was engaged in demolishing tiny countries in the Far East may, on its own merit be worth condemning, but it does not compare with the barbaric actions of the Pak Fauj on its OWN people.
The only example in post-WW2 America is National Guard shooting of the Kent State student protesters. That almost brought the administration down. It was also almost am accident. Pak Fauj, on the other hand, was engaged in systematic and organized criminal enterprise to thwart the will of its citizens whom it was supposed to have ``protected``. There is no moral equivalence in the examples.
RE: N. Islam
The last 25 years have been spent ``protecting`` the younger generation from the truth in the name of Islam. There was a six-volume official report complied by the Hamood-ur-Rehman commission. That report contains every single detail. Of course, the report never saw the light of day. Mr. Hamood-ur-Rehman was the chief justice at one time. He was a patriotic Pakistani and originally from Bengal.
The power that be can still choose to release that report. No one wants to release it because it implicates everyone from Bhutto to all the army brass and the civil service gurus and the politicians. Truth suits no one because if truth were told, the uncomfortable reality will have to be faced that the foundation on which today`s so-called Pakistan stands is a Big Bag of Fat Lies.
#8 Posted by Mobasher on February 2, 1998 7:08:50 am
RE`` Syd Ahmad ``... numerous examples in WWII, ie Firebombing of Hamburg and Dresden, tactic
approval of shoot to kill orders of POWs during the Ardenne offensive, the hanging of Gen Yamashita ( McArthur`s vendetta ) -were some of the major allied lapses...``
Let`s not forget the mother of all lapses ...
HOLOCAUST ... the genocide of six million European Jews by the Naziz.
approval of shoot to kill orders of POWs during the Ardenne offensive, the hanging of Gen Yamashita ( McArthur`s vendetta ) -were some of the major allied lapses...``
Let`s not forget the mother of all lapses ...
HOLOCAUST ... the genocide of six million European Jews by the Naziz.
#7 Posted by Syed Ahmed on February 2, 1998 1:00:50 am
The My-Lai massacare, the illegal invasion of Laos ( bombing of the Ho-chi Minh trail), and the widespread use of agent Orange, stand as ultimate reminders, that democracies are not immune from perpetrating the horrors of unrestricted warfare.
Numerous examples in WWII, ie Firebombing of Hamburg and Dresden, tactic approval of shoot to kill orders of POWs during the Ardenne offensive, the hanging of Gen Yamashita ( McArthur`s vendetta ) -were some of the major allied lapses.
Numerous examples in WWII, ie Firebombing of Hamburg and Dresden, tactic approval of shoot to kill orders of POWs during the Ardenne offensive, the hanging of Gen Yamashita ( McArthur`s vendetta ) -were some of the major allied lapses.
#6 Posted by Mobasher on February 1, 1998 8:39:24 pm
RE: Shams Haason ``... join me in condemning not only the racist and bigoted mentality of our illiterate, uncouth, and lying ``elders`` who would sell their very mothers for their
racism ...``.
Well said, Shams. I was a sophomore in college when this civil war happened. About the same time as the My Lai massacre in Viet Nam and the civil war in Biafara ... any one remember Biafara and Lt. Kelly.
I do not recall any Pakistani student on campus at that time who felt any remorse or guilt as to this inhumanity to fellow mankind. I recall daily prayers at the make-shift mosque on campus praying for the
victory in this butchery. That`s the only time I recall that I was ashamed of my Pakistani-American heritage.
We can talk about it all night long on Chowk, but the present generation in Pakistan will never be taught the gory truth of this holocaust in their history books. Sad but true ...
racism ...``.
Well said, Shams. I was a sophomore in college when this civil war happened. About the same time as the My Lai massacre in Viet Nam and the civil war in Biafara ... any one remember Biafara and Lt. Kelly.
I do not recall any Pakistani student on campus at that time who felt any remorse or guilt as to this inhumanity to fellow mankind. I recall daily prayers at the make-shift mosque on campus praying for the
victory in this butchery. That`s the only time I recall that I was ashamed of my Pakistani-American heritage.
We can talk about it all night long on Chowk, but the present generation in Pakistan will never be taught the gory truth of this holocaust in their history books. Sad but true ...
#5 Posted by Syed Ahmed on January 31, 1998 4:04:56 pm
DR Rabbani has indeed started a very interesting thread. Let me attempt to cast the main players in this act. Be forewarned that most of this is anecdotal information and should be independendently verified by
alternative sources.
The armed forces also didnot act as a great monolith in this regard. There was severe dissent within the army before the action against east pakistani citizens took place. THe then military Governor of East Pakistan, Admiral Ahsan resolutely refused to go through with this, he was summarily sidelined and retired. One of the earlier proponents of using force in East Pakistan,
Lt Gen Sahibzada Yakub Khan, ( GOC East Pakistan) later realized the carnage that was being proposed against the general populace and refused to go with it. He was
demoted to Maj Gen and transferred to West Pakistan. Many years later he was rehabilitated by Zia-ul Haq and became the Foreign Minister of Pakistan ( he was later reinstated to Lt Gen) . His replacement was Lt Gen Tikka Khan - the implementor of the final solution. The Bangladeshis refer to him as the ``Butcher of Dacca``. If memory serves me right he became Governor of Punjab during Benazir`s first term. Maj Gen Niazi was the frontline commander of Pakistani forces in East Pakistan. He signed the military surrender and subsequently went into captivity. He was the convienient scapegoat for the whole affair, ( Bhutto blamed him) and was retired.
The was dissent in West Pakistan against the
Government policy in Bengal. Two prominent dissenters- Faiz Ahmed Faiz , the noted Urdu poet ( the govt labelled him an anti-god communist heretic) and Air Marshal (Retd) Asghar Khan ( AF commander in 65) and then a budding politician ( subsequently a failed one) .
Incidentally Maj Gen (Retd) Naseerullah Babar, - the notorious implementor of the ``shoot to kill`` orders in Karachi, was a captain in the capitulating force.
alternative sources.
The armed forces also didnot act as a great monolith in this regard. There was severe dissent within the army before the action against east pakistani citizens took place. THe then military Governor of East Pakistan, Admiral Ahsan resolutely refused to go through with this, he was summarily sidelined and retired. One of the earlier proponents of using force in East Pakistan,
Lt Gen Sahibzada Yakub Khan, ( GOC East Pakistan) later realized the carnage that was being proposed against the general populace and refused to go with it. He was
demoted to Maj Gen and transferred to West Pakistan. Many years later he was rehabilitated by Zia-ul Haq and became the Foreign Minister of Pakistan ( he was later reinstated to Lt Gen) . His replacement was Lt Gen Tikka Khan - the implementor of the final solution. The Bangladeshis refer to him as the ``Butcher of Dacca``. If memory serves me right he became Governor of Punjab during Benazir`s first term. Maj Gen Niazi was the frontline commander of Pakistani forces in East Pakistan. He signed the military surrender and subsequently went into captivity. He was the convienient scapegoat for the whole affair, ( Bhutto blamed him) and was retired.
The was dissent in West Pakistan against the
Government policy in Bengal. Two prominent dissenters- Faiz Ahmed Faiz , the noted Urdu poet ( the govt labelled him an anti-god communist heretic) and Air Marshal (Retd) Asghar Khan ( AF commander in 65) and then a budding politician ( subsequently a failed one) .
Incidentally Maj Gen (Retd) Naseerullah Babar, - the notorious implementor of the ``shoot to kill`` orders in Karachi, was a captain in the capitulating force.
#4 Posted by SR on January 31, 1998 1:54:02 pm
RE: Waheed Malik
*/ */ */
Q. How does this historical injustice translates to ``us`` in today`s terms?
Q. Are there any suggestions you would like to make to us, Pakistan government, and Pakistanis in general?
Comment: Except for ``quite the accurate`` view of our true history, I don`t see ``where we go from here`` stuff!
*/ */ */
Malik sahib,
This was not intended to be a stand-alone article for the general audience. The sysop posted it for the general audience’s attention. Whereas I feel honored, I did not think what I had written was anything very worthy of general readership’s attention.
I was not trying to forward any new ideas, it was a focused response to a single person’s comment. I was merely responding to a certain Mr. Abidi, who had used the words “traitors and enemies”, describing the Bengali opponents of Pak Fauj in 1971, in the InterAct forum of the article about the plight of the Bihari Refugees. The purpose of my response to Abidi sahib was to straighten the record since Abidi sahib (and many other here) seem oblivious of the true facts of that sad saga in our recent history.
Having said that by way of clarification, let’s take your pertinent comment one at a time.
*/ */ */
In response to another’s remark (Re:BG ``The basis of the Creation of Pakistan, Islam, was flawed or weak.``) you wrote the following:
I don`t think so! I would however add the extra dimension of ``economics`` to it. This country was desperately needed.
*/ */ */
To say that the ideological basis on which Pakistan was created is not the same statement as saying Islam is wrong. That is altogether another debate. The point being made here is that you cannot claim that Pakistan is cemented together by religious unity and that ethno-linguistic claims are not valid. History has demonstrated that religious unity is a nebulous concept and good only for slogan mongering purposes. When it comes down to realpolitik, ethnicity over rides and supersedes religious affiliation.
So a country can justifiably exist if it defines it identity and purpose on solid secular foundations. Let’s not pretend that it represents some ideological fiction because historical facts have proven that it is not a feasible story. Ideological fairytales can only kept alive by false propaganda.
No one in their right mind says that the “ideological basis” of the Soviet Union are still valid. But let us suppose that the Russian Duma had insisted on calling itself the Soviet Socialist Something Something, and continued to claim that the Bolshevik revolution was alive and well and Communism continued to progress and be the reason for the existence of the Russian Federation. Suppose further that their politburo told the Russian people that the basis of their existence as a Soviet Socialist Something Something was not in the least bit undermined because of the breaking away of Ukraine, Belloruss, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, Azarbaijan, Kazakistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kergyistan, Turekmenistan etc, etc, and that we should “...add the extra dimension of ``economics`` to it. What, then, Malik sahib, would you say to them?
Solobodan Milocvich, the Serbian demagogue, did exactly the same thing and look what happened. The old saying goes, “those who don’t bend they break”. Let paraphrase it in our context and borrowing Darwinian language say that, “those who don’t adapt and evolve, get naturally selected out.”
*/ */ */
3) You can fight violance and destruction with (a) more violence and more destruction
(b) education (c) sacrifice (d) some miracle
*/ */ */
My answer, Malik sahib, is choice (d). Not just “some miricle”, but a Real Big miricle is needed. Unless and until people don’t wake up and start facing reality and shed off their cloak of ignorance and prejudice, all future scenarios look bleak.
*/ */ */
...try publishing it for history text books in Pakistan, but I guess he would rather ``call a spade a spade`` where he is well protected, secure and has nothing to lose, btw doesn`t this go against the very nature of the concept thrown around. Talk is very cheap, gentlemen!
*/ */ */
I am not unfamiliar with the ignoble intolerance of the ignoramuses in Islamabad. No wonder we get generation after generation from the school systems that know nothing of who they are or whence they came except what the “politburo” tells them by calling a spade something else.
And you are right, I speak my mind from a position of relative safety. Allow me to employ an allegory which may appeal to your sensibilities:- I am following a sunna -i-rasool.
The Prophet also migrated out of the land of Abu’Jehl to go to the relative safety of Yathrib, otherwise his life was in jeopardy because of what he believed and said. Its a sad state of affairs that those claiming to be his followers are actually playing the role of the Abu Jehls and Abu Lahabs.
*/ */ */
Lead by example or get out of the way!
I feel only those people have a right to speak on/for ``this flawed country`` who have some godamn stake in it...rest is all fluff!
*/ */ */
Many thousands like myself have indeed “voted with our feet” and have stepped out of the way. The time is not too far, when the great reckoning will hit the rajas of the Fairytaleland of the Pure.
People like me have as much stake in that part of the world as the early muslim migrants to Medina had in Mecca. By your argument’s spirit, the early Muslims no “godamn stake” in Mecca and therefore should have just shut up and enjoyed life in Medina.
*/
RE: Athar Mian
*/ */ */
Dear ``Hazrat Maulana`` Rabbani:
What you wrote about is no news to anybody anymore.
*/ */ *
Mian sahib:
Thank you for the accolades. But I am really not worthy of either title. Let us reserve them for the custodians of the umma’s soul’s salvation, because that’s about the only salvation that can be hoped for anymore. Anything concrete and measurable is already
I don’t know which enlightened corner of the country you come from, but I couldn’t disagree with you more.
Less than two years ago I went back home and spent over four months. I visited as many of my friends and relatives as I could and went to Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, Peshawer, Mianwali, Multan, Gugranwala, Sheikhupura and Kharian. I went out of my way to speak to as many young people as I could and to my utter horror, NO ONE knew the history of Pakistan. I asked every school-going child and ever recent college graduate, ranging from ages 12 to 25, about what they knew. Sadly, they knew nothing about the dark side of our past. They recounted to be in a knee-jerk like response the glory of Muhammed bin Qasim, the greatness of Aurangzeb and the “sacrifice” of Ghazi Ilum Din Shaheed. It was very reminiscent of how the children of an acquaintence recounted their “Revolutionary Heros” to me in Lenningrad (now St. Petersburg) back in the late 1970s.
Those who do not learn lessons from history are doomed to repeat it.
*/ */ */
Are you investing your money to help their cause? Is anybody ?!! (You expect a 35% plus IRR on such venture investments ?!!!)
*/ */ */
I hope you don’t work for the IRS...
But since you asked, the answer is no. I would, however, short the Pak Ruppee, but unfortunately the Chicago Mercantile Exchange does not offer any futures contracts for the Pak currency. I would also buy Put Options, and sell naked Calls, on the Karachi Stock Exchange Index, but again, the Chicago Board Options Exchange does not have a pit where those contracts are traded. The Morgan Stanley Pakistan Fund (PKF) which trades on the NY Stock Exchange is as low as it can be and has no liquidity. So, there you go, no opportunities exist to profit from that market. And 35% would be too low to obtain a justifiable return/risk ratio. I hope it answered your question.
*/ */ */
Q. How does this historical injustice translates to ``us`` in today`s terms?
Q. Are there any suggestions you would like to make to us, Pakistan government, and Pakistanis in general?
Comment: Except for ``quite the accurate`` view of our true history, I don`t see ``where we go from here`` stuff!
*/ */ */
Malik sahib,
This was not intended to be a stand-alone article for the general audience. The sysop posted it for the general audience’s attention. Whereas I feel honored, I did not think what I had written was anything very worthy of general readership’s attention.
I was not trying to forward any new ideas, it was a focused response to a single person’s comment. I was merely responding to a certain Mr. Abidi, who had used the words “traitors and enemies”, describing the Bengali opponents of Pak Fauj in 1971, in the InterAct forum of the article about the plight of the Bihari Refugees. The purpose of my response to Abidi sahib was to straighten the record since Abidi sahib (and many other here) seem oblivious of the true facts of that sad saga in our recent history.
Having said that by way of clarification, let’s take your pertinent comment one at a time.
*/ */ */
In response to another’s remark (Re:BG ``The basis of the Creation of Pakistan, Islam, was flawed or weak.``) you wrote the following:
I don`t think so! I would however add the extra dimension of ``economics`` to it. This country was desperately needed.
*/ */ */
To say that the ideological basis on which Pakistan was created is not the same statement as saying Islam is wrong. That is altogether another debate. The point being made here is that you cannot claim that Pakistan is cemented together by religious unity and that ethno-linguistic claims are not valid. History has demonstrated that religious unity is a nebulous concept and good only for slogan mongering purposes. When it comes down to realpolitik, ethnicity over rides and supersedes religious affiliation.
So a country can justifiably exist if it defines it identity and purpose on solid secular foundations. Let’s not pretend that it represents some ideological fiction because historical facts have proven that it is not a feasible story. Ideological fairytales can only kept alive by false propaganda.
No one in their right mind says that the “ideological basis” of the Soviet Union are still valid. But let us suppose that the Russian Duma had insisted on calling itself the Soviet Socialist Something Something, and continued to claim that the Bolshevik revolution was alive and well and Communism continued to progress and be the reason for the existence of the Russian Federation. Suppose further that their politburo told the Russian people that the basis of their existence as a Soviet Socialist Something Something was not in the least bit undermined because of the breaking away of Ukraine, Belloruss, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, Azarbaijan, Kazakistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kergyistan, Turekmenistan etc, etc, and that we should “...add the extra dimension of ``economics`` to it. What, then, Malik sahib, would you say to them?
Solobodan Milocvich, the Serbian demagogue, did exactly the same thing and look what happened. The old saying goes, “those who don’t bend they break”. Let paraphrase it in our context and borrowing Darwinian language say that, “those who don’t adapt and evolve, get naturally selected out.”
*/ */ */
3) You can fight violance and destruction with (a) more violence and more destruction
(b) education (c) sacrifice (d) some miracle
*/ */ */
My answer, Malik sahib, is choice (d). Not just “some miricle”, but a Real Big miricle is needed. Unless and until people don’t wake up and start facing reality and shed off their cloak of ignorance and prejudice, all future scenarios look bleak.
*/ */ */
...try publishing it for history text books in Pakistan, but I guess he would rather ``call a spade a spade`` where he is well protected, secure and has nothing to lose, btw doesn`t this go against the very nature of the concept thrown around. Talk is very cheap, gentlemen!
*/ */ */
I am not unfamiliar with the ignoble intolerance of the ignoramuses in Islamabad. No wonder we get generation after generation from the school systems that know nothing of who they are or whence they came except what the “politburo” tells them by calling a spade something else.
And you are right, I speak my mind from a position of relative safety. Allow me to employ an allegory which may appeal to your sensibilities:- I am following a sunna -i-rasool.
The Prophet also migrated out of the land of Abu’Jehl to go to the relative safety of Yathrib, otherwise his life was in jeopardy because of what he believed and said. Its a sad state of affairs that those claiming to be his followers are actually playing the role of the Abu Jehls and Abu Lahabs.
*/ */ */
Lead by example or get out of the way!
I feel only those people have a right to speak on/for ``this flawed country`` who have some godamn stake in it...rest is all fluff!
*/ */ */
Many thousands like myself have indeed “voted with our feet” and have stepped out of the way. The time is not too far, when the great reckoning will hit the rajas of the Fairytaleland of the Pure.
People like me have as much stake in that part of the world as the early muslim migrants to Medina had in Mecca. By your argument’s spirit, the early Muslims no “godamn stake” in Mecca and therefore should have just shut up and enjoyed life in Medina.
*/
RE: Athar Mian
*/ */ */
Dear ``Hazrat Maulana`` Rabbani:
What you wrote about is no news to anybody anymore.
*/ */ *
Mian sahib:
Thank you for the accolades. But I am really not worthy of either title. Let us reserve them for the custodians of the umma’s soul’s salvation, because that’s about the only salvation that can be hoped for anymore. Anything concrete and measurable is already
I don’t know which enlightened corner of the country you come from, but I couldn’t disagree with you more.
Less than two years ago I went back home and spent over four months. I visited as many of my friends and relatives as I could and went to Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, Peshawer, Mianwali, Multan, Gugranwala, Sheikhupura and Kharian. I went out of my way to speak to as many young people as I could and to my utter horror, NO ONE knew the history of Pakistan. I asked every school-going child and ever recent college graduate, ranging from ages 12 to 25, about what they knew. Sadly, they knew nothing about the dark side of our past. They recounted to be in a knee-jerk like response the glory of Muhammed bin Qasim, the greatness of Aurangzeb and the “sacrifice” of Ghazi Ilum Din Shaheed. It was very reminiscent of how the children of an acquaintence recounted their “Revolutionary Heros” to me in Lenningrad (now St. Petersburg) back in the late 1970s.
Those who do not learn lessons from history are doomed to repeat it.
*/ */ */
Are you investing your money to help their cause? Is anybody ?!! (You expect a 35% plus IRR on such venture investments ?!!!)
*/ */ */
I hope you don’t work for the IRS...
But since you asked, the answer is no. I would, however, short the Pak Ruppee, but unfortunately the Chicago Mercantile Exchange does not offer any futures contracts for the Pak currency. I would also buy Put Options, and sell naked Calls, on the Karachi Stock Exchange Index, but again, the Chicago Board Options Exchange does not have a pit where those contracts are traded. The Morgan Stanley Pakistan Fund (PKF) which trades on the NY Stock Exchange is as low as it can be and has no liquidity. So, there you go, no opportunities exist to profit from that market. And 35% would be too low to obtain a justifiable return/risk ratio. I hope it answered your question.
#3 Posted by Athar Mian on January 30, 1998 2:52:25 pm
Dear ``Hazrat Maulana`` Rabbani:
What you wrote about is no news to anybody anymore. Saying that Yahya Khan`s words still reverberate in your ears makes me laugh- you probably are a``channel`` in psychic terms.
So what are we doing to help those poor Biharis besides conveniently expressing our ``moral`` outrage? How more cynical can we get?
Are you investing your money to help their cause? Is anybody ?!! (You expect a 35% plus IRR on such venture investments ?!!!)
What you wrote about is no news to anybody anymore. Saying that Yahya Khan`s words still reverberate in your ears makes me laugh- you probably are a``channel`` in psychic terms.
So what are we doing to help those poor Biharis besides conveniently expressing our ``moral`` outrage? How more cynical can we get?
Are you investing your money to help their cause? Is anybody ?!! (You expect a 35% plus IRR on such venture investments ?!!!)
listing 1-16
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