YES!

Re: Shahbaz

I read your response and chuckled a while. You and I obviously inhabit different planets. All I see around me are kids controlling their parents. And I must see at least a 100 families a month. Where are these parents who control their kids?

Now mind you, we don`t really hang out with the orthodoxy. Perhaps that`s the yardstick you`re judging by.

And we dislike TV because it inculcates material worship and unlimited needs, something we can`t stand. The constant pitching just gets to me. I would much rather that our child learn to think and judge for herself, rather than receive her instruction from people just out to make more bucks.

Yes, I do believe in discipline and constructive limit setting. I want to bring up a thinking, hard-working, caring person, not a slob who gets passive entertainment from TV. And no, she hasn`t started her qaida yet. I think we`ve evolved beyond that. But she does read a lot of Urdu books. And English ones too.

Re: temporal

Loved your verse. Want more.

Re: SR

right on about TV. About the IMMUNIZATIONS, how about you write a piece and I`ll counter.

Anita

re: Shahbaz

Dear Shahbaz:

Thank you very much for your valuable input. I assume you are a second generation (i.e., born in the West, of parents who immigrated) Desi. I have seen the plight of many in your shoes and my heart goes out to your generation that has suffered immeasurably.

South Asian parents, often, are indeed over protective to the ultimate detriment of their children`s well being. This is, often, a consequence of their own lack (or refusal) of social evolution. Very often, they socially and culturally shelter themselves from the Western society, while participate only in the economy. They are, quite often, not really `immigrants`, rather they are `economic refugees` who build their own `cultural ghettos` and never venture out into the society at large. This is a source of the greatest social and identity crisis for their children in later life.

Many of these first generation parents go out of their way to inculcate dogmas in the minds of their children that confuse the hell out of the young ones as they begin to notice the sharp contrast between the outside world and their families. And yes, this does lead to all kinds of zebra children - black zebras with white stripes and white zebras with black stripes, fanatics, misfits, rogues and neurotics.

However, I`d like you to also consider that this is not just a phenomenon seen in children of first generation immigrant families. A lot of neurosis is being engendered in the Western society at large (especially in the US) and the underlying causes of that are mostly related to fragmentation of tribe and family, isolation and ultimately the living conditions arising from the economic circumstances. Unfortunately, the Desi family buys into the material commercialism and swallows it bait hook and line. Consequently, their children suffer from that too.

In a society where most people are driven, driven, driven all day, day after day, year after year, just so that they can meet their monthly payments and play catch-up, this wide spread neurosis is not surprising at all. People are under the gun to keep making regular payments for their mortgage, two new car notes, the boat, Sears & Roebuck charges, country club dues, kids` activity fees, school expenses, new furniture, etc., etc., etc. People are exhausted by the time they get back home after fighting the money goblin from dawn to dusk. There is little time or energy left for family, friends, a leisurely stroll along the nearby brook, a playful afternoon with the kids or a few hours in the seclusion with a paperback Dickens or Huxley. They come home and collapse before the TV that tells them to go in more debt and spend more and that doing so will give meaning to their mundane lives and make them happy. As a consequence and in compensation of all else that they are depriving themselves of they buy, buy, buy, and then buy some more. THIS, is what I meant by the curse of commercialism. (It is this aspect of TV that I consider diabolical and not the hot-bodz or `promiscuity` that probably you had in mind.)

If people could only stop and enjoy the little things in life and realize that they don`t NEED that new sports utility luxury vehicle, or that fifty two inch TV or that set of golf clubs from Ping, their lives could be more peaceful.

Time and energy are the two most precious resources that we possess. These are our most prized assets, both are finite but one is irreplenishable. The irony is that people give up way, way too much of these highly valuable assets in exchange for `material products`. They sacrifice time and energy for plastic and metallic junk, most of which they do not need and does not add to their happiness or fulfillment. Much of this junk is also plain harmful, either physically, intellectually or emotionally.

I entirely agree with your hint that knowledge at the cost of critical thinking is nothing more than worthless information. Sadly, it is not only the dogmatic Desi family that discourages critical thinking while promoting rote learning (``mashaallah, jee hamaray batay nay Quran ka eik siparah hifz ker leya hae``), it is also the corporate culture that only wants learned drones, not critical thinkers who may raise real questions.

Western societies have accomplished much and have a lot to offer. But like the Desi culture the West (especially the US) has far too many contradictions and hang ups also. As an example take the distortions of history that each culture embraces. Kids in Pakistan are never taught that Jinnah drank whisky, ate pork, cooperated with the British and spoke no urdu. Similarly, kids in the US schools are never told that George Washington was an incompetent military man who never, in his entire life, ever, won a even single battle in which he himself personally commanded the troops. Both societies have their lies, but a free thinking and well informed individual can sift through them. For this reason, as a parent, it is my duty to inform but not indoctrinate my child. This also means `protecting` my child from the harmful effects of propaganda until he develops his own critical thought. The propaganda may come from the TV commercials or from the Quran quoting pedantic uncles and aunts, its still propaganda.

re: Anita

I know you disapprove, but my specific objection for the moment was only against Hep B vaccination. Also, I`d like to go on record and challenge your use of the loaded term ``immunization``. Please lets use the more appropriate and neutral term ``vaccination``, let it be debatable whether adequate ``immunity`` results from some of the vaccinations that more than makes up for their potential harm.

re: temporal

As soon as I can get some time I shall write my views on the subject and post them. God help me from the wrath of Anita Zaidi and other MDs.

...SR

Re; Shahbaz

Oops! The last word is `them`.

Re; Shahbaz

Asian parents take comfort in knowing that their Western counterparts fare no better.

`Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive the`.
Oscar Wilde

Anita & Sohail:

Yaaran-e-Chowk:

Having raised two 16/18 year olds I share your insights, albeit with certain amusements.

We thought we were the only ones----no coke please; 100% natural juices, no TV and later no cable (``oh you are so cheap``) . Meena quit to stay at home; from being a roving malang I had to make career moves. Some day I will put it all on paper either as a poem or article under my alter ego`s name.

The kids are growing up to be generally nice, responsible and better than the average Joes.

Naturally we still have concerns. I guess they will never go away.

Will share something I penned recently:

Kal apnay jawaN saal larkay ki kisi baatpay bay ikhtiar ji chaha

ootha looN oos ko goad maiN

choom looN gaal ooska

khayalaat meray parh kar

mooskurahtay hu`ay bola woh

Don`t even think about it.

regards,

P.S. Yaar Sohail, shots maiN kiya muzaaiqa hai? Yeh baat humaari samajh maiN nahiN aati.

Sohail,

Tsk, tsk! I promise to give you a patient hearing in private, but lest anyone else think I condone this, I`ve got to make this rather elementary point - there is ample data to prove that the risk-benefit ratio comes out heavily in favor of getting immunizations. Doesn`t mean that they are risk-free - just that the risk of not immunizing is greater.

Looking forward to some heated arguments.

Anita

Anita:

I had just typed a part of this reply when I lost carrier, so I`m not sure if it took or not. Any way, I go again.

I was saying that reading about your daughter`s familiarity with ADM was very amusing, yet not surprising at all. How many kids her age do you think even know about the Supermarket to the World? I`m sure that in the brain department she must fall in the very highest percentiles (after all, she has your and Saad`s DNA, so its to be expected).

You are correct that one cannot `protect` children from the social environment. However, I think, spending time, I mean really, really spending interactive time with them is the only antidote that could have some hope. It is a huge investment that a regular career pursuing schedule simply cannot permit. Fortunately, we are not active participants in the rat race and are content with a modest life (some say I lack ambition to rise further in the game of material acquisition - where the one who dies with the greatest number of toys, wins). This allows us to have more discretionary time.


(The god-pediatrician asks: ``…did you get the newborn shots?…``)

No! Nothing exogenous has been introduced into my son`s blood stream. While he was in the hospital he was completely insulated from exposure to the staff (except the pediatrician, who came to the room). No sharp metallic object penetrated his epidermis. I didn`t even let them put silver nitrate solution (or was it Neosporin ointment?) in his eyes. As soon as his immediately postpartum check was done, I took physical possession of him and no strangers were allowed to handle him from then on. The hospital staff was somewhat taken aback because they were not used to their bureaucratic procedures and protocol being challenged. They wanted to do a bunch of stuff that would have entailed inflicting pain on the newborn in the name of science and health. This was something I was determined to prevent. The hospital administration made me sign all kinds of waivers, which I did, but we stuck to our guns and prevailed.

It was only yesterday, on his first medical office visit, that his dermal integrity was breached (heel stick) for PKU, T4/TSH, glucose etc. testing. We refused permission for Hepatitis B inoculation. I am going to write a more detailed account of this, so before you condemn me as a primitive minded anti-technology fanatic please give me a patient hearing.

…SR

Auntie Zaidi, enjoyed reading it.

Ah Sohail, if only you could prevent corruption by outside minds! Insulate them somehow for the rest of their lives.

We have followed many of the same policies. For example we still pretend that coke is something that we can`t buy for our home. It`s only available at restuarants or at parties. So the rule is - can only drink coke outside the house.

We hardly cook meat (maybe four times a year) as a concession to people who`ve come over for a meal.
Z doesn`t have a taste for meat products anyway, so that`s not a big problem.

We considered getting rid of the TV, but then decided to watch only PBS and news programs. The result has been rather unfortunate. One of the first things Z talked about was The Archer Daniel Midland Foundation. Just yesterday she stopped me to point out some credit card signs and said ``I know those cards - they are Mastercard and Visa credit cards. You buy stuff with them.`` The poor child also suffers from thinking her parents are dirt poor. We have struggled with what to tell her when we go out for groceries, to the pharmacy (there are toys, candy, consumables everywhere), and got sick of telling her that everything was bad for her. Also, how do you explain that buying yet another doll is bad for her. So we go with we just can`t afford it, line. It doesn`t always work. Mainly b/c the crestfallen face just tears our heart out.

But good luck anyway.

Anita

PS. As your god-pediatrician, I trust that the newborn shots were done. Now try explaining the need for shots to a 5 year old!

(``…you are doomed…kids rule…``)

Everyone says the same thing. They claim that my ideas are based on fantasy, not reality. Well, maybe they are and we`ll have to eat crow, but there are reasons for my idealistic optimism.

I believe that kids learn from observation and example only. Fortunately, neither of us drink coke (or any other sugar-laced colored bottled beverage) eats any candy or fast food or junk food. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times, in my 18 years of living in America, that I have had a McDonalds burger and that too was only under extremely desperate conditions. Most of my friends of South Asian origin have learnt to politely decline dinner invitation at our house. One frank and jovial Pakistani openly says that he prefers to do without the `Mayo Hospital` style food. Things were ``bad enough``, he says, when I was by myself, but since my marriage two years ago, ``all hope has been lost``. Carolyn is a vegetarian. (During pregnancy and lactation, however, she is eating fish.) On any typical day you will not find any cookies, chips, candy, coke or beer in our kitchen. We are quite content with this `normal situation` and do not consider it a state of deprivation. However, my sister labeled the ``conditions`` as being ``extreme and fanatical``. A special grocery trip has to be made whenever my family visits.

Until 1989 I did not own a TV. That is when my mother came to stay with me so I got a TV for her room. She left in 1993. Until last year I did not have air conditioning. My mother suffers from arthritis so she never insisted on having air conditioning while she lived with me. It was only after my marriage that I had central air installed. ``You are into self-denial``; a friend once accused me who visited me in the middle of the Southern summer. My old house with its high ceilings does not need artificial climate control, I claimed, but he was not impressed. (They all see me as a complete Spartan, but in fact I`m a hedonist in many ways.)

There is a British study of the cohort that was born in WW2 who faced food rationing in the first five years of life. This cohort remained largely sugar free in later life and have lower rates of obesity, heart disease and other metabolic derangements.

At least for the first few years of life, I believe, we can keep our son `protected` from the ills of Western commercialism. That`s all I can hope for.

...SR

Re: Saeed Jafar

With a child as delightful as yours, a whole book of verse wouldn`t do her justice!

Re: SR

No coke, no junk food, no candy? If you think you are setting those rules without resorting to capital punishment, you are doomed, man. Doomed to fail, and fail miserably. Kids rule - its as simple as that.

Here`s a recent incident. I came home to find that Z had plastered all the portraits in the house with impossible to remove stickers. As soon as I began to scold her for doing that, and reminded her that she should check with me before launching into such creativity, she said, ``but wait Mommy, wait, you said I was big enough to do things by myself.``

A

Ah, its so comforting to know that I`m not the only one who gets easily manipulated by my daughter. Titans, possessing wills of steel like you also suffer from the same weakness.

My sixteen year old has mastered this art of manipulation with her father, at least. This past summer she got away with murder and knew full well that she had me nailed where she wanted me. Her mother is not as easily impressed with the same antics that work like a charm with me. But then she does not live with me so I give in a little more eaily than I would have had our family life been `normal`.

This second time around, however, I am fully resolved to be a different kind of parent. Tough Love and all. No candy, junk food or junk TV I`ve promised myself. I realize though that it is a bit too soon to make such tall claims. But the intentions are fully there. Parmatmajee, please have mercy !!

...SR

As a parent, Anita, I enjoyed your poem very much. I feel like I could add many more verses to fit!