An Interview with Naseeruddin Shah

For probably the first time I actually heard something positive about our film industry that too from across the divide. Thank god Lahore still has some young, talented writers. Keep it coming.

Nelofar.

Re: Godot(21)

Wow , aren`t you touchy ? Well I ofcourse know that it was the Indian movies that were being discussed here. And I was just trying to inform you about some aspects and components of Indian Movies that you might not have been aware of. Do give them a try if you find some time. And particularly the ``Malayalam`` movies. They really are a treat to watch. Try works of Adoor Gopalakrishnan, Shaji Karun, Mohammed Kutty , Aravindan etc.,

At no point was i comparing Pakistani movies here. Since i had given some information about Indian movies, i thought you would not mind providing some information about Pakistani movies (the ones to avoid and the ones to watch). I was not doing a ``no better than me`` game here. You could give me more credit than that.

p.s: I was not finger pointing. It was a honest query. Don`t look for ghosts were there are none.

Rishi

Re: Rishi (20)

It is the ``Indian`` movies being discussed here. Where does Pakistan come in? I`m not comparing Pakistani (``across the border``) movies to the Indian movies. However, since you`re quick to point your finger, thanks to the ``good`` Muslims in Pakistan, art, particularly the movies, is dead in Pakistan.

re AA
you are absolutely right: deep mehta is a complete and obnoxious flake (had the misfortune to meet her).

re ranaransher
no, of course i am not supporting the ban on the stupid movie! better movies about gender roles and oppression have been made -- for instance, daira. but deepa mehta `distributed` hers well and it was in english. so it sold well to the western audience. and THEN it went to india. by then it had a reputation, and the story got bigger, hence all the noise. frankly, i am a little bored by the movie and mehta and i cant understand how people can go on and on about something bad, when better movies exist, should be watched and fought for.

Re : Godot

It would be a fallacy to view bollywood movies as Indian movies. India has a parallel film industry which eschews the bombay/hyderabad/madras masala genre. Movies from Assam, Bengal, Orissa , TamilNad , Karnataka, Kerala etc., are often found to be masterful works. Among these, TamilNad of late has skillfully balanced the creative urge and the commercial elements.

But among all Indian cinemas, my vote enmasse would always go the Malayalam film industry. More often than not, these movies are a real treat to watch. Throw in a couple of Tamil Movies , and the ones above (not all hindi movies are bad too, did you get to see Satya ) Indian movies indeed are good value for the mind and the spirit. Depends entirely on your choice buddy. Wonder how it is across the border though.

Rishi

I would love to know what anyone thinks of Bapsi Sidhwa as a writer. I have read The Bride, Ice Candy Man, the Crow Eaters, and An American Brat and frankly found her going from good to bad throughout the progression of her novels, with Crow Eaters/Bride being on the high end and An American Brat really, really bad. Sidhwa seems to have a talent for storytelling and imagery but no control over the language as a craft in itself. Perhaps some of it is due to bad editing, but also I found many of her passages forced and unbelievable.

Sorry, tangential, but I`ve been dying to discuss this with Chowk-folk!

- Bina

Re: Anita`s post # 16

Collecting oral histories is a real daunting challenge. It requires an infrastructure that is unfortuneately not available in Pakistan. It is a costly undertaking and I highly doubt that GoP will pay for it. Maybe, if the history political science depts. in our universities could pool their resources and do it. Maybe...

Thank you Feroz, for those excellent suggestions. Sounds like a to-die-for thesis topic for someone (where are you Shan Anwer?) But I was also referring to the importance of gathering oral histories. As Aliya says, that generation is about to pass away.

Re: RanaRansher and Truth

My perspective on the Partition really changed when I came to the US and got to meet Indians who had migrated the other way. Until then, I had only thought of it as a one-way street - from India to Pakistan. One of my very good Indian friends is originally from Karachi. Watching her parents (migrated from Karachi to Bombay)and Saad`s father (migrated from Agra to Karachi)look at each other in wonder, and exchange long-suppressed memories of what home was like as kids - a real tear-jerker it was. The Bombay parents got invited to Karachi, and vice versa - and as would be expected from our visionary governments, the visas were refused.

Anita

re: Godot
The answer to your questions lies right within the article and its subsequent replies ;-)

Most movies, may be because they are so expensive to make, have to give in ( a little bit more than print ) to ``what sells`` principle .

I have yet to see a movie that is better done than the novel it is derived from, and so I haven`t seen the movie Earth, and will avoid it like plague, not because it is a bad movie( I don`t know if it is or not) but because I loved cracking India, the novel.

I agree with Anita( and disagree with the Shah), not enough is known about the Partition.

As for Ferozk`s reference to the immaculate Nazi records, I agree somewhat, my main disagreement is that the value of oral history should not be underestimated. Before the survivors pass away, we need to document their recollections from both sides of the border.

Re: Rana Ransheer #9

In case you`re done with the condescension, I have read the book ``Cracking India``. I read it in this version and since the print date was recent, I assumed it was called this before ``Ice candy Man``. Thanks for the info. It is true I haven`t seen the movie ``Earth`` and you may have your reasons for being moved by the title, however apt or not, I was merely pointing that in the interview I read, she expressed her desire to make films on ``Air`` and ``Water`` as well..which is well, cause she sounded like quite a snow flake herself.

Merits of Cracking India .. so-so, some moving bits. I got over Sidwa after she reading her ``Bride`` as a child and being moved to tears. Not to forget the star of accomplishment she received from zia-ul-huq the dictator.

Are we talking about Indian movies or the Partition, or the Partition in Indian movies? I personally despise Indian movies: bad directions, bad story, bad delivery. Bad, bad, bad! They suck to the lowest degree. They are an insult to a thinking mind. Now, the Partition is another story. Someone should write a good essay on so it can be discussed outside of that pitiful Bollywood.

Re: Anita Zaidi`s post # 6

I don`t think that the kind of imperical data you are searching for exists in the case of pre-partition demographics and post-parition demographic studies.

I am not sure about the latter, but if you are interested in the pre-partion demogrpahic census, my recommendation would be to ask the India Office at Cambridge University. That office holds all the British government papers dealing with India. In this case, you can take the pre-partition data and compare it with the post-partition data and draw your own conclusions. I know that the British Army, which oversaw the cross-migrations, kept a detailed statistical records of people, on the village and town level, moving to either India or Pakistan. Since the trains, carrying the exodus, were under British army control, there was a passenger manifest. This was done for each train, going to either Pakistan or India, and a copy was send to the Army HQ in New Delhi. I am sure that those records could be found via the British Imperial War Museum`s archive collections.

As far as the Shoah, the Yiddish term for the Holocaust, is concerned there is so much infomation on that, because the Germans kept detailed records on the whole thing. It was those very same records that would come to haunt the Nazi leadership during the Nuremberg trials.

If you are really interested in finding out, my suggestion would be to look outside South Asia. Foreign newspapers, like Times of London, NYTimes etc. had reporters covering the parition and maybe they have some archival infomation. Hope these suggestions of mine help you!

You have raised an interesting topic and I hope that you find what you are looking for!

re: AA
You have it wrong.
Earth - The book was initially called `Cracking India` but was changed to `Ice Candy man` when it was published in England. This was due to people protesting that `India` was never a country but just a British creation. These arguments are made by people to this day - on chowk itself. THe `Ice Candy man` is one of the main characters in the book whose demise as a person is the climax of the book/movie. In my opinion, she very cleverly named the movie EARTH since it IS about people fighting over earth/land ie.
Fire is a movie she has already made and is available on video in the US. It is in English.
Beats me how you can debate about the merits of a movie without even seeing it or reading the book it is based on.

re: Rishi
Earth, in my opinion, was a very good movie. It remains true to the book it is based on. The book itself is set in pre-partition Lahore and is narrated through the eyes of an 8 yr old Parsi girl. If anything the innocence and honesty in the childs confusion about the events she observes is very thought provoking. Even the characters are very well developed. The movie traces the `fall` of certain characters and how they succumb and even revel in the religious carnage, when at one time religious differences meant nothing to them.
Another thing which stands out in the movie is the confusion at what exactly is going on. A handful of elite decide on partition and people find out about where their particular town falls (India/pakistan) either through radio announcements in English ( which they don`t understand) or by the riots that follow almost immediately.
Another stark truth from the movie is that when MEN have issues with THEIR religions, in the fallout, the worst victims are always the underclass and of course, WOMEN.
Regarding FIre. I mostly agree with you. However, a mindfuck, once in a while, is good for the thinking mind, isn`t it ?

re: all
I am not sure how Naseer dismisses the worth of Earth as a movie so easily. His point about film makers finding contemporary subjects in India to make movies is well taken. But current Indian politics is still rife with religious politics. If anything we need more movies like this.
Indian cinema has always shoved secualrism down your throat with movies like Amar Akbar Anthony ,etc. There are so many religious taboos amongst Indians which need to be dealt with. Just to give you an idea. Bombay was the first Indian film which showed a Hindu and a Muslim getting married. Certain areas rioted. Another tele serial, which was cut short, due to riots was a serial called `Tamas` based on a book by Bhisham Sahni. THis was also based on partition.
These books are all available. However, movies have a much wider reach. Indians need to see more of these movies which are actually thought provoking. Compare these to the regular jhatak matak formula movies with Govinda and Karisma dry humping over some catchy tunes and I am not sure what Naseer would have to say.

re: BG
I am not sure you know what the hullabullo over FIRE was all about. If anything, the movie has been very thought provoking for Indian audiences. I agree the movie had very little to do with lesbianism and the sex scenes may not have been necessary. Just look at the confusion with which everybody from the Hindu right, Muslim right, to certain Womens organisations protested about the movie. And the way in which they protested. Completely bypassing the law `n order, the censor board and not even caring about others who actually WANTED to see the movie.
When, in reality, their Victorian prudence (as Rishi calls it) couldn`t deal with the sex.
One thing you cannot deny is the fact that the movie DID showcase the lack of choices for women in India. This, inspite of the lesbianism. This is the same audience that gives a mediocre run to unknown supposedly FUNNY films like `Gharwaali Baharawaali`.
And are you supporting the call for a ban on this movie ?

re: Anita
I completely agree. Not enough has been written and even less has been made into films. People often have very folky, very localized versions of partition. Very little has been written about the BIG picture so to say. Especially ironic since Indian and Pakistani contemporary politics bear the legacy of the politics of 1947.

Since we are discussing Fire and not Naseer, let me add my bit:

Fire was a god awful movie

Train to Pakistan was a god awful movie

I agree with Anita that partition has not been fully explored. It has usually been discussed within the confines of each individual country. Each country usually dismisses the rationale of pro-partition or anti-partition by rubbishing the worst arguments of the other side. Since there is usually very little cross-fertilization across the border, we dont hear the best arguments of either side.

But the basic point of the lack of documentation of the stories of partition is a good one. My mother would tell me stories of Lahore and Murree (we are Delhiites now) but she is no more and gone with her is one of the people and stories touched by partition.

Hey, Rishi and BG--

I just saw `Fire` a couple of weeks ago. Came away feeling kind of weird. For me, the weakest part of the story was the position the movie took on lesbianism--compromising, to say the least. I mean, it was a big confused jumble between `finding yourself` and RESORTING to lesbianism out of sheer loneliness and sexual frustration. I wonder how the gay community reacted to it (fill me in if you do know).

What were your biggest gripes?