An Interview with Naseeruddin Shah

rehan Ansari....

a question for you?

how much of what you are writing is ...

trying to prove something? just asking!

Zehra:

``rehan`s fat?`` That is Rhetorics 101?

``any other chowkwalas seen the play? temporal? ferozk? PM? anyone?`` We are going tomorrow evening, play followed by a sumptuous 17 course veg/nonveg (almost) all night feast at M`s. Thought you and DadiJaan were coming?

........well........

lve

t

Rehan:

Do they still use the expression `break a leg`?

Best wishes for a good beginnig. Go kill them!

rgds

t

...........THUS SPOKE THE SCRIBE........


.......DIGEST

sitting atop the mound, coated in blessed ash, wearing a saffron bow tie with matching loin cloth, the sage turned to the fakir and said, ``It is Tuesday!``

.......INSTRUCTION

Hatter thought of the washer woman: if (the ever qualifier (?) qualifying (?)if fate had ordained and he had come up with her dues he would nothavebeenbombarded by Bannerjee`s bard`s tales.

Sage touched his possessions, in a gesture to be made famous decades later by M. Jackson Esqr, and addressing the cloud of dust enveloping Hatter said, ``I (will) be, and you (will) be, whatever (will) be. Doris Day was yet to be. Or she`d have piped in Kay sera seraa.......... or as the bard would say....

............PRESUMPTION

Will come, O ReHatterhan, if you change the name of your column. Nawaz wasn`t your first shareef. Or the last.

rgds

t


P.S. My apologies in advance to those who haven`t read Desani. And to Rehan who claims he has.
P.P.S. Come for pow wow, 5-6 Sun, bring S.

The sad this about this response by Naseeruddin Shah is his daft notion of the `contemporary`. He really does imagine that there is a taken-for-granted present that film makers from this part of the world can live in. And the reason he thinks this is the example of Hollywood where everybody knows what Dustin Hoffman is up to in Kramer vs Kramer. That`s the `present` for him, a bunch of contemporary mannerisms from the metropolis that his Hollywood betters can enact and be famous for playing well. A world where being accurately mainstream is well paid. Envying Hoffman`s payday is forgivable; what is pathetic is his desi worship of Hoffman, this truly second-rate actor who believed that mimesis was the end of actorly art, who disappeared up his narcissistic arsehole in the Rain Man. If he needs a mainstream hero, why not Brando or even Harrison Ford. Naseeruddin Shah isn`t Brando or Kinski, but he`s twice the actor Hoffman ever was; the horror is that he doesn`t know it.

=== Interact Filtered ===
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Well, i liked the bugger. Even watched some of his films. His legacy? A B-movie actor. Thats what people will remember him as. I remember his role in Mohra, he was good though, playing the blind bad guy.

Dear people: anita, aaliya, ferozek, aamina, truth, goga

I am gratified by your interest in partition narratives. I have been collecting some in lahore, on audio, as part of a project that includes interviewers working in delhi, ahmedabad, bombay, calcutta and dhaka

Our project is peripherally interested in questions of politics and history. Who did what to whom is not what we have made our business. We are primarily interested in victimhood, and the psychology of victimhood.

Our form of interviewing is non-directed. We wish to trigger the memories of the interviewees, and let them choose their own issues.

As part of the project I have proposed making a video out of some of the narratives I have collected. There are delhi-based filmmakers interested in collaboration, including a member of a feminist film collective.

Rehan

Anita Zaidi (Post #16):

Are you serious when you say that your perspective on partition changed only after you came to the US - until then you believed the migrations had only been one way: Muslims to Pakistan.

Is that an individual experience or do you think that is representative of the perception of the majority of Pakistan`s post-partition generation? Just curious....

To Aliya et Aamina Ahmed

There is an excellent article in the Pakistan Defence Journal, written by Brig. (retd.) Francis H. B. Ingalls, the first commandant of the Pakistani Military Academy. In that article is an interesting account of what happened during the cross-migrations as seen by Ingalls himself, as he travelled from Delhi to Lahore on the eve of Partition itself!

The article makes for an interesting oral history on Paritation! The title of the article is ``The Last of the Bengal Lancers``

The web site is:www.defencejournal.com

Re: Goga`s post # 29

Just some historical facts...

The saying ``never again!`` or in German, ``nicht weider!`` was the creation of the Allied Tribunal at Nurnberg. If memory serves me, the saying came from a German newspaper headline of the time which proclaimed the Allies determination to prevent another Shoah. The allies were so over come by their complicity in condoning the exterminantions of the Jews during the war that they promised that they would never allow something similiar to happen again and if it did, they would resist it.

nicht weider....Sarajevo...nicht weider...Bosnia...nicht weider...Kosovo...nicht weider...

This saying is similar to the one which said, ``the boys will be home before Christmas`` on August 1914 as the armies marched off to World War One. How many times since then have we heard that; Second World War; Korea, Suez 1956, Malaya, Yemen, Vietnam, the Gulf War...

Ironic isn`t it, the names and the places change, but the words remain the same...

Re: Aamina Ahmed post # 26

I agree with Aliya. A viedo oral history of the Partition would be highly efficent and cost-effective. To me, the biggest problem is a logistical one; it lies not in documenting the Partition survivors, but in locating them. Another means, to over come this problem, could be a massive self-awareness campaign to inform people on what is being done.

Here is some food for thought...

There are couple of ways of doing this. One is simply to go back to the records of the last census, and find out which residents of Pakistan were born around 1930 (an example year open to change). Next step would be to find their address listed and go talk to them. Even if they have moved, a little detective work could find them, because people in Pakistan, unlike in the west, still keep ties with the old neighborhood.

Another way would be through the offical district commission gazzettes, created and maintained by the British Indian Civil Service. These documents listed the names of all the poeple living in a tehsil, but what is more important, it also listed their known relations in other tehsils for cross reference purposes. These are amazingly detailed documents and are still used by Pakistani government for admininstrative purposes. That suggests that they have been updated since 1947 and that implies that new arrivals would be registered. If people migrated, it makes sense that they would chose to reside with their relatives till they could get their lives re-organized. Hence, that gives us a starting point.

The above are some of the ways of finding these people, but there has to be some sort of an infrastructure that facilitates all of this search.

My own suggestion would be to follow the example of collecting the D-Day veterans` oral testimony on the Normandy invasion. Like them, it would be easy if a questionaire is mailed to each household in Pakistan asking if there is Partition emigree living there. Based on the return answers, this search could be further fine tuned. Then the problem becomes a financial one; who will pay for all of this?

Hope this helps you.....

The recording of Holocaust events is so important to Jews is because of the special emphasis they place on history which is religious in origin. The other reason that majority of Jews do not believe in the afterlife. They believe that they will live in the memories of their love ones after they die. So there is a comprehensive program to gather the stories of Holocaust. I haven`t seen a New York Times Book Review going by without something on Holocaust. Within last few days about five books on Ann Frank alone came out. Also the collective history of Jews is filled with persecution and memories of the Holocaust are to be used as a conscious effort that such an event never takes place again: You can hear them saying, ``Never again!`` Another difference is that Nazis are no longer in power and the current German government is fully cooperating with such efforts.

In the subcontinent, at a governmental level, such a program would not possible given the animosity that exist between the two countries: They always accuse that the other was more viscous. Comprehensive individual efforts might be as difficult to carryout given strong presence of patriotic extremists in each country. I am skeptical of anything like this happening at a large scale given the current state of affairs.

RE; Aamina Ahmed


As someone quite naive about matters of historical documentation, I am not qualified to take up your challenge, but I`ll suggest something for the interim (until someone who is qualified to do so volunteers).

How about turning on a video camera, and just letting people talk about their experience of the partition, and then archive the interviews for future researchers. There is a massive data compilation of this sort going on with Holoucast survivors (if I remember correctly, in Los Angeles).

While we are thinking of the best (chowk) person for the job, I`ll nominate someone too: Ansari Saheb........Interested?

Thanks for your really interesting interview. I am a fan fo N. Shah and I liek what he says.

Re: Bina

Surely we digress, but I can`t resist it. After the Ice-candy man I could not stomach BS. Almost as bad a mills and boon, elevated to sociological comment. Sorry if anyone is a BS fan, but please there is much better out there.

Indeed, most Indian movies are disgusting. Bollywood should be called Baloneywood -- that will make more sense.

For probably the first time I actually heard something positive about our film industry that too from across the divide. Thank god Lahore still has some young, talented writers. Keep it coming.

Nelofar.

Re: Godot(21)

Wow , aren`t you touchy ? Well I ofcourse know that it was the Indian movies that were being discussed here. And I was just trying to inform you about some aspects and components of Indian Movies that you might not have been aware of. Do give them a try if you find some time. And particularly the ``Malayalam`` movies. They really are a treat to watch. Try works of Adoor Gopalakrishnan, Shaji Karun, Mohammed Kutty , Aravindan etc.,

At no point was i comparing Pakistani movies here. Since i had given some information about Indian movies, i thought you would not mind providing some information about Pakistani movies (the ones to avoid and the ones to watch). I was not doing a ``no better than me`` game here. You could give me more credit than that.

p.s: I was not finger pointing. It was a honest query. Don`t look for ghosts were there are none.

Rishi

Re: Rishi (20)

It is the ``Indian`` movies being discussed here. Where does Pakistan come in? I`m not comparing Pakistani (``across the border``) movies to the Indian movies. However, since you`re quick to point your finger, thanks to the ``good`` Muslims in Pakistan, art, particularly the movies, is dead in Pakistan.

re AA
you are absolutely right: deep mehta is a complete and obnoxious flake (had the misfortune to meet her).

re ranaransher
no, of course i am not supporting the ban on the stupid movie! better movies about gender roles and oppression have been made -- for instance, daira. but deepa mehta `distributed` hers well and it was in english. so it sold well to the western audience. and THEN it went to india. by then it had a reputation, and the story got bigger, hence all the noise. frankly, i am a little bored by the movie and mehta and i cant understand how people can go on and on about something bad, when better movies exist, should be watched and fought for.

Re : Godot

It would be a fallacy to view bollywood movies as Indian movies. India has a parallel film industry which eschews the bombay/hyderabad/madras masala genre. Movies from Assam, Bengal, Orissa , TamilNad , Karnataka, Kerala etc., are often found to be masterful works. Among these, TamilNad of late has skillfully balanced the creative urge and the commercial elements.

But among all Indian cinemas, my vote enmasse would always go the Malayalam film industry. More often than not, these movies are a real treat to watch. Throw in a couple of Tamil Movies , and the ones above (not all hindi movies are bad too, did you get to see Satya ) Indian movies indeed are good value for the mind and the spirit. Depends entirely on your choice buddy. Wonder how it is across the border though.

Rishi

I would love to know what anyone thinks of Bapsi Sidhwa as a writer. I have read The Bride, Ice Candy Man, the Crow Eaters, and An American Brat and frankly found her going from good to bad throughout the progression of her novels, with Crow Eaters/Bride being on the high end and An American Brat really, really bad. Sidhwa seems to have a talent for storytelling and imagery but no control over the language as a craft in itself. Perhaps some of it is due to bad editing, but also I found many of her passages forced and unbelievable.

Sorry, tangential, but I`ve been dying to discuss this with Chowk-folk!

- Bina

Re: Anita`s post # 16

Collecting oral histories is a real daunting challenge. It requires an infrastructure that is unfortuneately not available in Pakistan. It is a costly undertaking and I highly doubt that GoP will pay for it. Maybe, if the history political science depts. in our universities could pool their resources and do it. Maybe...

Thank you Feroz, for those excellent suggestions. Sounds like a to-die-for thesis topic for someone (where are you Shan Anwer?) But I was also referring to the importance of gathering oral histories. As Aliya says, that generation is about to pass away.

Re: RanaRansher and Truth

My perspective on the Partition really changed when I came to the US and got to meet Indians who had migrated the other way. Until then, I had only thought of it as a one-way street - from India to Pakistan. One of my very good Indian friends is originally from Karachi. Watching her parents (migrated from Karachi to Bombay)and Saad`s father (migrated from Agra to Karachi)look at each other in wonder, and exchange long-suppressed memories of what home was like as kids - a real tear-jerker it was. The Bombay parents got invited to Karachi, and vice versa - and as would be expected from our visionary governments, the visas were refused.

Anita

re: Godot
The answer to your questions lies right within the article and its subsequent replies ;-)

Most movies, may be because they are so expensive to make, have to give in ( a little bit more than print ) to ``what sells`` principle .

I have yet to see a movie that is better done than the novel it is derived from, and so I haven`t seen the movie Earth, and will avoid it like plague, not because it is a bad movie( I don`t know if it is or not) but because I loved cracking India, the novel.

I agree with Anita( and disagree with the Shah), not enough is known about the Partition.

As for Ferozk`s reference to the immaculate Nazi records, I agree somewhat, my main disagreement is that the value of oral history should not be underestimated. Before the survivors pass away, we need to document their recollections from both sides of the border.

Re: Rana Ransheer #9

In case you`re done with the condescension, I have read the book ``Cracking India``. I read it in this version and since the print date was recent, I assumed it was called this before ``Ice candy Man``. Thanks for the info. It is true I haven`t seen the movie ``Earth`` and you may have your reasons for being moved by the title, however apt or not, I was merely pointing that in the interview I read, she expressed her desire to make films on ``Air`` and ``Water`` as well..which is well, cause she sounded like quite a snow flake herself.

Merits of Cracking India .. so-so, some moving bits. I got over Sidwa after she reading her ``Bride`` as a child and being moved to tears. Not to forget the star of accomplishment she received from zia-ul-huq the dictator.

Are we talking about Indian movies or the Partition, or the Partition in Indian movies? I personally despise Indian movies: bad directions, bad story, bad delivery. Bad, bad, bad! They suck to the lowest degree. They are an insult to a thinking mind. Now, the Partition is another story. Someone should write a good essay on so it can be discussed outside of that pitiful Bollywood.

Re: Anita Zaidi`s post # 6

I don`t think that the kind of imperical data you are searching for exists in the case of pre-partition demographics and post-parition demographic studies.

I am not sure about the latter, but if you are interested in the pre-partion demogrpahic census, my recommendation would be to ask the India Office at Cambridge University. That office holds all the British government papers dealing with India. In this case, you can take the pre-partition data and compare it with the post-partition data and draw your own conclusions. I know that the British Army, which oversaw the cross-migrations, kept a detailed statistical records of people, on the village and town level, moving to either India or Pakistan. Since the trains, carrying the exodus, were under British army control, there was a passenger manifest. This was done for each train, going to either Pakistan or India, and a copy was send to the Army HQ in New Delhi. I am sure that those records could be found via the British Imperial War Museum`s archive collections.

As far as the Shoah, the Yiddish term for the Holocaust, is concerned there is so much infomation on that, because the Germans kept detailed records on the whole thing. It was those very same records that would come to haunt the Nazi leadership during the Nuremberg trials.

If you are really interested in finding out, my suggestion would be to look outside South Asia. Foreign newspapers, like Times of London, NYTimes etc. had reporters covering the parition and maybe they have some archival infomation. Hope these suggestions of mine help you!

You have raised an interesting topic and I hope that you find what you are looking for!

re: AA
You have it wrong.
Earth - The book was initially called `Cracking India` but was changed to `Ice Candy man` when it was published in England. This was due to people protesting that `India` was never a country but just a British creation. These arguments are made by people to this day - on chowk itself. THe `Ice Candy man` is one of the main characters in the book whose demise as a person is the climax of the book/movie. In my opinion, she very cleverly named the movie EARTH since it IS about people fighting over earth/land ie.
Fire is a movie she has already made and is available on video in the US. It is in English.
Beats me how you can debate about the merits of a movie without even seeing it or reading the book it is based on.

re: Rishi
Earth, in my opinion, was a very good movie. It remains true to the book it is based on. The book itself is set in pre-partition Lahore and is narrated through the eyes of an 8 yr old Parsi girl. If anything the innocence and honesty in the childs confusion about the events she observes is very thought provoking. Even the characters are very well developed. The movie traces the `fall` of certain characters and how they succumb and even revel in the religious carnage, when at one time religious differences meant nothing to them.
Another thing which stands out in the movie is the confusion at what exactly is going on. A handful of elite decide on partition and people find out about where their particular town falls (India/pakistan) either through radio announcements in English ( which they don`t understand) or by the riots that follow almost immediately.
Another stark truth from the movie is that when MEN have issues with THEIR religions, in the fallout, the worst victims are always the underclass and of course, WOMEN.
Regarding FIre. I mostly agree with you. However, a mindfuck, once in a while, is good for the thinking mind, isn`t it ?

re: all
I am not sure how Naseer dismisses the worth of Earth as a movie so easily. His point about film makers finding contemporary subjects in India to make movies is well taken. But current Indian politics is still rife with religious politics. If anything we need more movies like this.
Indian cinema has always shoved secualrism down your throat with movies like Amar Akbar Anthony ,etc. There are so many religious taboos amongst Indians which need to be dealt with. Just to give you an idea. Bombay was the first Indian film which showed a Hindu and a Muslim getting married. Certain areas rioted. Another tele serial, which was cut short, due to riots was a serial called `Tamas` based on a book by Bhisham Sahni. THis was also based on partition.
These books are all available. However, movies have a much wider reach. Indians need to see more of these movies which are actually thought provoking. Compare these to the regular jhatak matak formula movies with Govinda and Karisma dry humping over some catchy tunes and I am not sure what Naseer would have to say.

re: BG
I am not sure you know what the hullabullo over FIRE was all about. If anything, the movie has been very thought provoking for Indian audiences. I agree the movie had very little to do with lesbianism and the sex scenes may not have been necessary. Just look at the confusion with which everybody from the Hindu right, Muslim right, to certain Womens organisations protested about the movie. And the way in which they protested. Completely bypassing the law `n order, the censor board and not even caring about others who actually WANTED to see the movie.
When, in reality, their Victorian prudence (as Rishi calls it) couldn`t deal with the sex.
One thing you cannot deny is the fact that the movie DID showcase the lack of choices for women in India. This, inspite of the lesbianism. This is the same audience that gives a mediocre run to unknown supposedly FUNNY films like `Gharwaali Baharawaali`.
And are you supporting the call for a ban on this movie ?

re: Anita
I completely agree. Not enough has been written and even less has been made into films. People often have very folky, very localized versions of partition. Very little has been written about the BIG picture so to say. Especially ironic since Indian and Pakistani contemporary politics bear the legacy of the politics of 1947.

Since we are discussing Fire and not Naseer, let me add my bit:

Fire was a god awful movie

Train to Pakistan was a god awful movie

I agree with Anita that partition has not been fully explored. It has usually been discussed within the confines of each individual country. Each country usually dismisses the rationale of pro-partition or anti-partition by rubbishing the worst arguments of the other side. Since there is usually very little cross-fertilization across the border, we dont hear the best arguments of either side.

But the basic point of the lack of documentation of the stories of partition is a good one. My mother would tell me stories of Lahore and Murree (we are Delhiites now) but she is no more and gone with her is one of the people and stories touched by partition.

Hey, Rishi and BG--

I just saw `Fire` a couple of weeks ago. Came away feeling kind of weird. For me, the weakest part of the story was the position the movie took on lesbianism--compromising, to say the least. I mean, it was a big confused jumble between `finding yourself` and RESORTING to lesbianism out of sheer loneliness and sexual frustration. I wonder how the gay community reacted to it (fill me in if you do know).

What were your biggest gripes?

Great job here introducing Naseeruddin Shah.
He once did justice(if that it at all possible) to
the character of Mirza Ghalib and took on
other very difficult roles.
His name often reminds me of a movie called
``Ijaazat`` in which the formula film and commercial
cinema blended together extremely well.

Ras

It always surprises me when people say that a lot has been written on the Partition. I say, hardly anything has been written, given the magnitude of human migration that occurred over such a short span - as far as I know, the largest ever in history. Compare what`s been written, for example, to what`s been written on the Holocaust.

Is anyone aware of any analytic work in this area? Who crossed, how were they different from the ones who didn`t cross, how many lost family members, how many families were divided permanently, are Muslims who crossed over, better-off in economic terms than Muslims who didn`t? Does anyone know?

Anita

Rehan:

Good piece. Took me back to the era of
Shyaam Benegal, Amrish & Om Puri, Smita Patel, Shabana Azmi and Naseeruddin Shah. But his dismissal of the biggest holocaust of this century (3 pages of Manto) is a gross exagerration. Manto spotlighted one aspect of holocaust. It was his greatness. But the impact of the great divide was much greater and its reverberations will continue to be felt for a long time.

regards

re rishi
i couldnt agree more. big hullabaloo about a seriously bad movie. havent seen earth, but am not pinning my hopes on it.

Still on the subject of Deepa Mehta -earth -fire -air water. The latter two incidentally films she plans to make.

I read an unimpressive interview of Deepa Mehta and Bapsi Sidwa in Ms. magazine. Apparently Earth is based on Sidwa`s novel ``Cracking India`` which was renamed by her after its initial publication as ``Ice Candy Man.`` (?) When asked if Sidwa minded that the film`s name was going to be neither ``Cracking India`` nor ``Ice Candy Man``, she said she didn`t.(why should she?) Apparently the name satisfies Mehta`s ego and her element- sequels.

Haven`t seen Earth, but agree with Naseer already. Besides he is cuter than Mehta.

Re: all

Anyone seen Earth . Any comments. Myself, not really impressed with Deepa Mehta. Fire was pure pulp. Almost made me wonder what she wants to talk about. If she just wanted to startle and shock the sensibilities of a people who have irrevocably managed to entangle themselves in victorian prudence from their khajurao past, she managed to achieve just that. And with the sena performing its routine song and dance nautangi, the movie was blown totally out of proportion such that people from all walks of life in india ended up discussing lesbianism. And it was really cheeky of her to use ``Sita`` in the earlier versions as the name of the protogonist. It was a pity that even Shabana had to speak half truths when she defended the hindi and english indian version`s ``Nita`` . This in a country where Ashar could not sign his signature on a footwear since it raked controversies of ``Mohammed`` on a ``chappal``.

Atleast with ``Fire``, Ms Mehta emerged only as a cheap gimmick artist.

Rishi

I would make it a point here in order to beg to differ with an idol of mine, Naseer, that Earth, at the very least deserved a hurrah as a good effort.

Maybe the sex scene was appealing to some commercial sense of an undesignated order but atleast it was honest in its conveyance of awkwardnessas surely sex can be awkward.

t..dadijaan and i will be in next week..will see you at the closing night party..?

what, where or who is M`s?

rizvi

rehan`s fat?

mebbe that picture isnt really him...

any other chowkwalas seen the play? temporal? ferozk? PM? anyone?

z.rizvi

RSaxena #44 ``Why am I dragged into all the creative story..``

You were already part of the story-telling (having left scout crying on some bridge, according to an earlier episode, as I recall). I intended no offense, incidentally, in referring somewhat unflatteringly to your physical self which I am sure is perfectly fine. And scout would be I am sure be honored to have an evening out in NYC with you.

Gymno #43(?) So that is where you are, in SFO. Lucky you (I visited that beautiful city once and could easily get used to it).

Zahra 3 (post # 28/29/37) Scout 1 (#32), while Bina waits on the sidelines looking for a chance to jump in. And all this for Rsaxena`s carcass, I believe. And Gymno, who was supposed to be escorting Scout around NYC, is nowhere to be seen. This is surely a dark day for Pakistani manhood and for the ladies too (Zahra to please supply appropriate emoticons).

Urstruly #25 writes ``(as a result of reading the words) epicede, threnody and palinode...they have peed in their pants too, (including myself)``.

Urstruly, you seem to get scared easily. Hope you keep an extra pair of pants handy when you read the chowk.

Like the car horn, the loudspeaker, and the internet discussion groups, cellular phones only prove that technology simply imposes the irritating habits of ill-mannered people on the rest of us. Nor, more importantly, does it impart wisdom. Indeed, as Toynbee pointed out a half-century ago, the greatest threat to mankind is that our technological accomplishments vastly exceed our emotional development. A few months ago, Bill Joy (technical VP, I think, at Sun computers) pointed out possible catastrophic results of advancements taking place in nanotechnologies, biology, and so forth. Whether our grasp will match our reach remains to be seen.

Dear Rehan (sorry I misspelt your name in previous post)

Thanks for the link that describes the play. Sounds like a funny one.

hamidm#101 ``hate is a pure and noble emotion - a human attribute``

So you (the holier-than-thou Pakistani), and Jay (who knows only one thing - Pakistanis are evil) recognize each other as soulmates in hate. Only, please dont insult the human race by thinking the two of you belong to it.

Scout #92 ``Maybe you should write an article about it. I will read it.``

I think I will pass on this invitation. But thanks for confirming the readership of at least one person.

Rehan,

I think I understand what you mean by not being able to hear Kips voice.

What else did you and Ondaatje talk about? Must have been interesting to meet him. I havent read his book ``Running in the Family``.

Rehan please keep posting articles about literature/plays. I`m not into politics that much, but I look forward to reading your stuff.

When I post next time I`ll give you a run-down on whats happening in the British Asian theatrical scene.

Suffice to say everybody listen out for these names:

East is East

Goodness Gracious Me

and see how Indians/Pakistanis are shaking up British Culture in the new millenium.

Keep up your work Rehan

regards

Harpreet

Dear Chowkstaff:

I`m sure Gnostic is speaking for almost all

chowkies in his #68 request.

Why the heck can`t you guys do it?

regards,

PM

Oh, you technical wizards out there, could someone

tell me why my posts are shown with para breaks

after every line? I`m using a Mac. & AOL 4.0

Could that be it?? Is there some setting I need to

change?

Thanks,

This is regarding the current Chowk Home/Front page:

There are five contributions on the front page by Mr. Moeez on cricket. Four of them are literally yesterday`s news.

Among the remaining discussions sites there are some essays/topics which, it appears, will soon be dropped e.g., Pervez Hoodbhoy`s essay on ``Pakistan in 3000``.

I have noticed that Mr. Moeez`s writings have a total of perhaps eight `replies` among them, by four people.

It is my considered judgement that your Chowkwalas, judging from the breadth and intensity of discussion, would appreciate it much -- in fact, feel gratified, and in gratitude to you -- if you deviate from your ``custom``, ``tradition``, ``protocol``, or, ``usual practice``, and remove some of the cricket Posts and give a longer lease on

life to the more substantive essays including, bahmad`s, Zeemax`s, Hoodbhoy`s and others.

One more point: You are aware that ``He had no Choice`` has now evolved into an `all purpose` site on Pakistan. I have been going through your archives and except for Zia & Nayyar`s latest essay, the one after October 15, 1999, no other site has ever garnered more than 500 replies. As you may be aware, the ``He had no Choice`` is past 1100 and is close to 1200 replies which, according to my `research` has to be your record number of responses for one site; and there is no decline in the posts per week - or daily - as I write these lines. I, therefore, request a special resuscitation for that site by way of a ``direct`` link to it from the first page so that by clicking on it, if located on one of either side`s margin on the Home page, one could access that site rather than the present laborious rout. I hope you consider my request seriously. An earlier post was addressed to you on this matter but perhaps it escaped attention. I hope you would not consider it too presumptuous on my part if I re-submit it to you via this rout.

Most Sincerely Yours,

A Gnostic

#: 59

Harpreet

Godot,

If it [was] //were// up to me India and Pakistan would sign a thousand year non-aggression pact.

Replies to Even this one are going ``Indo-Pak conflict``

Come on, the guy wrote a nice play ( my cousin saw it and enjoyed it) lets talk about the actors, the act, the lighting, or even how FAT RehanHasanAnsari is

Take the conflict to where it belongs..LOC..

( nah, just kidding)

peace

Re: Harpreet

The reason I say the ball is India`s court is that India has ignored Pakistan`s signals (de-escalation of its military at the Sialkot border, for example) and has rejected all of Pakistan`s reconciliatory gestures. Why? Because Pakistan`s ruler is the military? So what? Making peace is making peace. If the other guy is willing, then extend your hand as well. Let`s get it started.

Now, I know there are elements in both countries that want bloodshed. They understand neither the concept of peace and prosperity, nor the plight of innocent and hapless people of the subcontinent. In my view, unfortunately, it is India`s politicians, the ruling party, if you will, that is part of that unenlightened element. I think General Musharraf is genuinely seeking peace with India, but it is India that is rejecting it. How can one be optimistic about peace when India`s Defense Secretary, George Fernandes, uses his words like a fool uses his money?

Yes, Harpreet, if you and I ran India and Pakistan, things would be different. It`s both sad and ironic that the region that produces brilliant minds is also the poorest region in the world. It really is a shame.

Re: Rehan, #57

``yaar I thought Muslims will be reckoned with for their own aamaal and not anyone else`s...``

Very true. However, I don`t see your point in relation to what I said. I don`t get this tangent. Yes, I agree, everyone is responsible for his own aamaal. Why do you single out the Muslims, though? As John Lennon said, ``your karma is gonna get you``; that is, regardless of your religion and not for anybody else.

Godot,

If it was up to me India and Pakistan would sign a thousand year non-aggression pact.

Any militarism in India should be countered and I agree that India as the ``elder bigger brother`` should show maturity and foresight in its handling of the issue.

The ball is also in Pakistans court. Both sides have become so pumped up that any move to peace can be seen as losing face. The mutual antagonism contributes to this paradigm.

Would you not agree though Godot that there is also a Military complex in Pakistan that also seeks to perpetuate ill-feeling and tensions for its own benefit and institutional survival?

I wish that I was the Prime Minister of India and you of Pakistan, so we could sign treaties and make peace.

regards

Harpreet

Godot,

I dont think that either party is innocent in the demonising of the other. I think it is futile for either side to accuse the other of exclusive hatred/mistrust, because quite frankly I know that anti-Indian, or anti-Hindu feelings are present in many (but not all, and not uniformly virulent) sectors of Pakistani society. These things are bi-lateral and self-perpetuating.

I can feel that in the tenor of the comments of many Pakistanis. I could make the case,in reverse, from your last posting (substituting ``Pakistani`` for ``Indian``). But what would be the point?

All that happens is we end up throwing accusations at each other.

I understand your misgivings Godot, because I can see your point well. I`ll try my best when I can to allay them in whatever small way I can.

I am not a representative of the Indian state, just as you are not of the Pakistani. And I dont want to exist in a state of heightened suspicion and paranoia.

regards

Harpreet

Re: Harpreet, #54

``Maybe we can dispel the mistrust of people like [Godot]``

When India sees Pakistan as the root of all evil, how do you ``dispel the mistrust of people like Godot``?

Now, I say this with all honesty and without any ill thoughts towards the Indians. Please don`t take this negatively.

I`d love to see Pakistan and India live in harmony with each other, perhaps as much in harmony as Britain and France do. I`m for India and Pakistan to sign a one-hundred-year no war pact, with their armed forces withdrawn from each others` borders.

I very firmly believe that the ball is in India`s court. Do you agree?

Apologies to Kaffir:

sorry, Kaffir, I incorrectly attributed Godot`s contribution to you. Apologise for the mistake, it`s just that you have such a memorable name!

regards,

Harpreet

Rehan,

Sorry for not getting back to you earlier, I have been away for a while.

Yes Rehan, people like you need to make films of the English Patient, and with your theatrical skills, there`s no reason why you should not.

I agree with you on your other comments. You try and foster trust on your side and I`ll do the same here. Maybe we can dispel the mistrust of people like Kaffir, and others, on both sides. (Although I can understand why they feel this way.)

Rehan, have you ever thought of producing/filming Manto`s ``Toba Tek Singh``? I think that is a work dying for a decent adaptation.

Naseerudin Shah as the lead.

Hit me with some more of your literary descendants...

regards,

Harpreet

Re: rehanhasanansaru, #51

``there should only be one track, and that is the track of peace``.

I agree with it whole hearterdly (although I noticed that, while you clearly blame Pakistan, you have a hands-off attitude towards India).

It takes two to tango.

Reading the Indian newspapers` headlines in samachar.com vs. Dawn or The Friday Times, it appears that, in contrast to Pakistan, India has no interest in maintaining peace with Pakistan. The ball clearly is in India`s court as far as opening a dialogue on peace with Pakistan is concerned. It seems that Indian politicians justify their existence by declaring war on Pakistan. To them, Pakistan is the root of all evil. The Indians are desparate to have the world community, especially the US, declare Pakistan a terrorist state.

And you want to talk peace!

Rehan,

I hope you do manage to bring the production to London. I dont know if you are aware of how healthy South Asian theatre in Britain is,with companies like Tamasha theatre company and Tara Arts, but I think you will find a very receptive audience for the play both amongst the Indian/Pak community as well as the Goray here. I look forward to it.

Getting off the point a little here, when you mentioned the character of Kip from the English Patient, were`nt you pissed off with the film of the book? To me it is Kirpal that resonates most strongly to the themes in Ondaatje`s novel and his relationship with the Quebecois nurse, his confusion, anger at what he sees in the war, the impending horror of partition and his beloved Lahore unknown to him, the themes of colonialism,cultural identity etc etc. And what do we get in the film? A typical ``Jolly good show old bean, awfully sorry what what`` love story in the desert. I think the film completely neutered the character of Kip and hence Ondaatje. I think it proves that the makers of the film, and the British are not ready to face up to the implications of Kip and what he means.

I never noticed that aspect of Kim as precursor to Kip before, thanks for pointing that out, the outsider moving through the other, the more I think about it the more it rings true......very interesting.

Tell me Rehan, is Lahore a beautiful city? I recently went to a show at the V+A Museum in Kensington where they had an exhibition of Sikh arts to commemorate the 300th anniversary of the Khalsa. They had many things from the court of Ranjit Singh, telling the story of Lahore, his golden throne, the artist`s depiction of the city.

I think it sounds like a very special place.

My Grandfather always says that Lahore is the cultural and emotional capital of Punjab. I think one day I would like to visit.

Anyway Rehan, good luck in Canada.

regards

Harpreet

Rehan,

Your play sounds great. I first heard of the book while reading an article in the Times here in England some years ago. Then about two years back I bought a compilation of modern (ie: post 1947) Indian literature in English, edited by Salman Rushdie, in which there was an extract from the novel. I have to say that the prose is extraordinary, it reads to me like the first sustained and successful attempt to articulate the Indian voice, and the psychological schism of the modern Indian experience in the context of English fiction. You are dead right about him being a pre-cursor of Saleem Sinai. Rushdie says in the compilation that he is indebted to Desani for helping him find a voice. Some would say that the authorial and prose style of Rushdie is so greatly influenced by the book that he has`nt shaken it off. Others may simply suggest plagiarism, but I wouldnt be so cruel, we are all inspired by something.

What is truly amazing is that the book is not in print in the UK! I cant believe that Rushdie and other prominent authors can`t use their influence to bring out a new edition so that Desani can get due recognition. (Perhaps he is scared that it will diminish him by making people realise that his style is not that unique).

Rehan good luck with everything, I only regret you couldnt bring the play to London so I could view it.

regards

Harpreet

Rehan,

Your play sounds great. I first heard of the book while reading an article in the Times here in England some years ago. Then about two years back I bought a compilation of modern (ie: post 1947) Indian literature in English, edited by Salman Rushdie, in which there was an extract from the novel. I have to say that the prose is extraordinary, it reads to me like the first sustained and successful attempt to articulate the Indian voice, and the psychological schism of the modern Indian experience in the context of English fiction. You are dead right about him being a pre-cursor of Saleem Sinai. Rushdie says in the compilation that he is indebted to Desani for helping him find a voice. Some would say that the authorial and prose style of Rushdie is so greatly influenced by the book that he has`nt shaken it off. Others may simply suggest plagiarism, but I wouldnt be so cruel, we are all inspired by something.

What is truly amazing is that the book is not in print in the UK! I cant believe that Rushdie and other prominent authors can`t use their influence to bring out a new edition so that Desani can get due recognition. (Perhaps he is scared that it will diminish him by making people realise that his style is not that unique).

Rehan good luck with everything, I only regret you couldnt bring the play to London so I could view it.

regards

Harpreet

Rehan,

Your play sounds great. I first heard of the book while reading an article in the Times here in England some years ago. Then about two years back I bought a compilation of modern (ie: post 1947) Indian literature in English, edited by Salman Rushdie, in which there was an extract from the novel. I have to say that the prose is extraordinary, it reads to me like the first sustained and successful attempt to articulate the Indian voice, and the psychological schism of the modern Indian experience in the context of English fiction. You are dead right about him being a pre-cursor of Saleem Sinai. Rushdie says in the compilation that he is indebted to Desani for helping him find a voice. Some would say that the authorial and prose style of Rushdie is so greatly influenced by the book that he has`nt shaken it off. Others may simply suggest plagiarism, but I wouldnt be so cruel, we are all inspired by something.

What is truly amazing is that the book is not in print in the UK! I cant believe that Rushdie and other prominent authors can`t use their influence to bring out a new edition so that Desani can get due recognition. (Perhaps he is scared that it will diminish him by making people realise that his style is not that unique).

Rehan good luck with everything, I only regret you couldnt bring the play to London so I could view it.

regards

Harpreet

Dear Rohan,

You could have talked a bit about the play itself, rather than beating around this bush and that, thereby wasting my precious internet time.

In response to Anita Zaidi (Reply #: 6)

Dear Anita Zaidi:

I wonder if oral historic and ethnographic traditions are barely developed in Pakistan, let alone taken seriously. Indian scholarship on the issues of nationalism, culture, partition, migration, and diaspora is definitely far superior to ours due to their long and well-developed tradition of social sciences and humanities. A pay-off of a more balanced educational system in India.

We (South Asians) still have time to preserve an important chapter of our history such that we develop a better sense of the meaning of mutual cooperation and peaceful coexistence.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahamd