Godot January 18, 1999
#10 Posted by afrasiyab on January 19, 1999 2:32:55 pm
Re: Rana
My reply was specifically directed towards Kumar`s reply. I agree that the article to which Kumar replied initially is not a scholarly work. But I have nothing to do with that. Once again, I was replying to Kumar`s question. That`s it.
My reply was specifically directed towards Kumar`s reply. I agree that the article to which Kumar replied initially is not a scholarly work. But I have nothing to do with that. Once again, I was replying to Kumar`s question. That`s it.
#9 Posted by afrasiyab on January 19, 1999 10:33:32 am
Kumar,
Please give us the reference of that quote. Preferably, the title and the author of the book, in this case.
Considering that he said what you are saying he did, I don`t think it was hypocritical in any way. Had he turned away the muslims who were migrating to Pakistan, then I may venture to agree with you but that was not the case, was it now.
When such references are made, the SCHOLARLY way of doing things is that you mention the exact quote with all the references and not just your inferences. Hope you take this as criticism of your method as I do not mean any personal disrespect.
Please give us the reference of that quote. Preferably, the title and the author of the book, in this case.
Considering that he said what you are saying he did, I don`t think it was hypocritical in any way. Had he turned away the muslims who were migrating to Pakistan, then I may venture to agree with you but that was not the case, was it now.
When such references are made, the SCHOLARLY way of doing things is that you mention the exact quote with all the references and not just your inferences. Hope you take this as criticism of your method as I do not mean any personal disrespect.
#8 Posted by afrasiyab on January 19, 1999 1:07:17 am
Ferozk:
Can you provide us with the name of the Doctor. I thought Quaid had two physicians during the coarse of his life and the one I am told knew about his disease was a British lawyer, who was also a colonel in the British Army.
Do enlighten me.
Can you provide us with the name of the Doctor. I thought Quaid had two physicians during the coarse of his life and the one I am told knew about his disease was a British lawyer, who was also a colonel in the British Army.
Do enlighten me.
#7 Posted by ferozk on January 18, 1999 11:13:41 pm
Re: Temporal post # 6
According to Wolport, the doctor was a Hindu and had his practice in Bombay and I have heard the same from my grandmother, who was a parsi, who moved to Lahore from Bombay in the early 1940s and then decided to stay on after 1947.
Question: if he was a Parsi, why has not the Parsi population of Pakistan brought this up?
According to Wolport, the doctor was a Hindu and had his practice in Bombay and I have heard the same from my grandmother, who was a parsi, who moved to Lahore from Bombay in the early 1940s and then decided to stay on after 1947.
Question: if he was a Parsi, why has not the Parsi population of Pakistan brought this up?
#6 Posted by temporal on January 18, 1999 8:55:48 pm
Feroze:
I thought the physician you referred to, Dr J.A.L. Patel was parsee.
regards
I thought the physician you referred to, Dr J.A.L. Patel was parsee.
regards
#5 Posted by ferozk on January 18, 1999 5:54:52 pm
Excellent article Godot !
Jinnah was a brillient constitutional lawyer and it was through his advocacy for his client, the Muslims of India, that he won for them a political settlement in the quise of Pakistan. His legal brillience in creating Pakistan, is admired and repected by the adversary who lost to his single minded tenacity for the cause of Pakistan - the British. The fact that his portrait hangs in the Great Hall of Lincoln`s Inn testifies to his acomplishment.
Another thing that we, Pakistanis, should be grateful to is Jinnah`s Hindu doctor. It was he who found out the TB that was eating Jinnah alive and it was he, as a promise to Jinnah, who kept quite about the whole thing and locked the x-rays in a private safe. Mountbatten, once he found out, is said to have remarked that had he known, he would have delayed Parititon till it was too late. If that doctor had spoken there would be no Pakistan.
Fifthy years later, we Pakistanis think that all Hindus were against the idea of Pakistan, but we should remember that one Hindu who, more than others, by his actions of decency, made the idea of Pakistan possible. It is time we lived up to our obligations and admit that we, as a nation, owe that gentleman a debt of honor.
Sincerely Feroz
Jinnah was a brillient constitutional lawyer and it was through his advocacy for his client, the Muslims of India, that he won for them a political settlement in the quise of Pakistan. His legal brillience in creating Pakistan, is admired and repected by the adversary who lost to his single minded tenacity for the cause of Pakistan - the British. The fact that his portrait hangs in the Great Hall of Lincoln`s Inn testifies to his acomplishment.
Another thing that we, Pakistanis, should be grateful to is Jinnah`s Hindu doctor. It was he who found out the TB that was eating Jinnah alive and it was he, as a promise to Jinnah, who kept quite about the whole thing and locked the x-rays in a private safe. Mountbatten, once he found out, is said to have remarked that had he known, he would have delayed Parititon till it was too late. If that doctor had spoken there would be no Pakistan.
Fifthy years later, we Pakistanis think that all Hindus were against the idea of Pakistan, but we should remember that one Hindu who, more than others, by his actions of decency, made the idea of Pakistan possible. It is time we lived up to our obligations and admit that we, as a nation, owe that gentleman a debt of honor.
Sincerely Feroz
#4 Posted by temporal on January 18, 1999 3:29:58 pm
Godot:
Good article. Would provoke and shock some!
Jinnah is dead, Long live Jinnah!
Standing over the edge of the precipice we continue to look in the rear view mirror. And when we don`t look back we look around, get dismayed at the present pathetic company. Missing is the concerted effort to look into the foggy future and salvage-- for ourseleves, for our future generations.
regards
Good article. Would provoke and shock some!
Jinnah is dead, Long live Jinnah!
Standing over the edge of the precipice we continue to look in the rear view mirror. And when we don`t look back we look around, get dismayed at the present pathetic company. Missing is the concerted effort to look into the foggy future and salvage-- for ourseleves, for our future generations.
regards
#3 Posted by wasiq on January 18, 1999 2:53:59 pm
Well written Godot! One wonders how Jinnah would have been regarded by history had he been born in England or America? What if one of the three key players, Jinnah, Nehru and Gandhi had been missing, would history have been the same? What conspiracies would have unfolded earlier had people realized that his days were numbered?
#2 Posted by Zakk on January 18, 1999 12:57:27 pm
I dunno ..nobody knows for sure what he really meant by Pakistan ...but no one should ever deny his place in history ( despite your belief to the contrary ) cos he changed the map of the world and effected the lives of millions ...during his time and after .I think the most damning indictment , though , about how bad things have gotten ..is that if he was alive now he`d probably have been hung as an infidel and an Israeli agent :(
#1 Posted by faraz on January 18, 1999 11:24:51 am
It is indeed very disturbing to see what has become of Pakistan, especially if one compares it to Jinnah`s dream. The problem is further compounded by the fact that most Pakistanis get their version of Jinnah from government sponsored history.
How many people know that he was an Ismaili? That he has a daughter, even? Or that certain people who later became successful politicians were anti-Jinnah before partition (even using phrases like kafir-e-azam but have since become known as patriots (a certain Maulvi comes to mind). Every Pakistani knows Jinnah`s portrait, very few know true legacy.
My point is that Pakistanis can never realize Jinnah`s dream (`` A secular state based on Muslim identity``) without knowing the man himself. And the present lack of objective history and education in Pakistan does not give one much hope for the future.
Good article though. The Simon & Garfunkel lyric should be ``Jotin` Joe`` instead of ``jumping``.
How many people know that he was an Ismaili? That he has a daughter, even? Or that certain people who later became successful politicians were anti-Jinnah before partition (even using phrases like kafir-e-azam but have since become known as patriots (a certain Maulvi comes to mind). Every Pakistani knows Jinnah`s portrait, very few know true legacy.
My point is that Pakistanis can never realize Jinnah`s dream (`` A secular state based on Muslim identity``) without knowing the man himself. And the present lack of objective history and education in Pakistan does not give one much hope for the future.
Good article though. The Simon & Garfunkel lyric should be ``Jotin` Joe`` instead of ``jumping``.
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