Accident

Amber #44

ghalib also said:

Kaa`ba kis mooun say jao gay ghlaib

Sharam tum ko magar naheen aaatee

Re: Rana Ransher # 62

Begging for forgivness? I call it worshipping at the alter of the porcelain goddess! Just like praying for absolution for any other sin, we promise we will never do it again, but hey.....tomorrow is another day! :)

Your comment about being exposed to alcohol in college was really apt. This is not only applicable to the people who frequent this forum, but is also true of the American freshmen in colleges too. Losing ones` ``virginity`` to alcohol for the first time really determines how a person will handle themselves. Some deal with it responsibly and others become alcoholics, but unfortuneately it is the drunk and boorish behavior we associate with alcohol drinking. Why, because those who handle their alcohol responsibly know their limits and generally do not make a fool of themselves in public.

RE: OMAR1974

Chill! Take it easy Omar!!! Me thinks you`ve seen Shakespear in Love one too many times. Cowards die many times before, but the valiant ones will get us killed to just prove their own mettle! My problem with Shakespear, though I love his works, is similar to what Mark Twain said about Richard Wagner`s operas: I love Wagner`s operas, but unfortuneately they are all in German!

In my case, I love Shakespear`s plays, but I can not stand his prose!

Strange !!!! People bringing up valid cases of date rape, eve teasing, etc. that they may have witnessed or been a victim of at some point of time and all they seem to remember is that the person was DRUNK.
To put it simply, all that alchohol does is make your chaal mastaana and nazar gulaabi. When you have too much, it spanks you and you beg forgiveness the next day !! What you do under the influence cannot be blamed on the drink. Those are just excuses. As someone said ``nashaa sharaab mein hotaa, to naachti botal``. Similarly, what one does when they lose their inhibitions is different for different people.

Now I understand that some of you may have come in contact with alchohol only in US colleges where alchohol is a big part of social life (most of the people you are referring to are probably underage and are hence breaking the law anyway). In any case, alchohol is also part of a lot of cultural activities for a lot of people outside college. Like weddings, holi, diwali, family get togethers, cultural celebrations, etc. I am sorry your alchohol memories do not ring a bell with me. I have other memories.

You are obviously making such gross generalizations.

They that would complain of the nauseating sight and smell of the o`er revelled, i say, i had not yet beheld a sight, nor a smell WORSE than the chopped up corpse of an olde man in Karachi in the medical school, for the smell formaldahyde, and the sight, of the upper parts of said creature, missing the lower extremeties entirely, i shall neither of them forget too easily. Tis but fortunate, (for the doctor sahib) that twas not one of the good doctor`s points against consumption ...:)

drunk women are as idiotic as drunk men. Sorry for the gender-bashing. Let`s just say that drunk PEOPLE in general are unamusing and irritating, and leave it at that!

Bina, If thou Can`st lick `em, then thou should`st join them. Who knows, we may make a female Ghalib out of you yet! So admonish not the dear, sweet cup of wine, but rather drink of it, discover its hidden delights ... partake of it, make merry and see life through new eyes ... let thyself go but a little, and then a little more ...:) Condemn not without experience ... for revelry in which man and woman hath both delighted in carousing for many thousand year ... and not for naught but an ill tasting brew .. tis the effects that are the main cause of this abuse as they call it. Reason alone is but a deficient crutch to lean on for those with naught but inexperience ... so sip, shy not ... there be many a twix `tween the cup`n th`lip. Thou sits in judegment with a furrowed brow better suited thy misguided elders, though neither Bacchus nor Dionysius hath abused thee ... wouldst thou bring upon thyself the wrath of the gods! Oh forgive her ye lords, for she is but young, and knowth not thy power and charms, pray give her a chance yet ...

A pox on thee Omar for leading astray this sweet virtuous young maid, as thyself has`t been led astray. This is flat out knavery you impious rascal. To encourage others down the same path of Dionysian worship ... would thou corrupt this fair sweet young co-ed?

Sheer devilery! corrup`td thyself, thou would seek now to lure others to join thyself in the pits ... monster, aye villan! Now your trumpets blaring encouragement ... discover`d only now that our city be named Jericho!

Never one to ignore the issue of equal rights, there was nothing as disgusting as the women who got drunk and threw up on the bus back from Boston to Wellesley. Yes, drunk women are as idiotic as drunk men. Sorry for the gender-bashing. Let`s just say that drunk PEOPLE in general are unamusing and irritating, and leave it at that!

Re: Bina #55

As the bard said: the lady doth protest too much..

How about girls women who paw drunk guys?

During my college days, there was one particular girl who would frequent parties with the sole intention of getting laid. She would wait for the guys to get drunk and then guide them into a room where she would have sex with them. In one instance, at a party at the house, we caught her having sex with a guy who was passed out on the floor. She merely moved him behind some couches, removed his pants and proceded to have her way with him!

Is that not a defination of a date rape? I highly doubt that he consented to having sex with her. Drunk and being stupid is a two way street Bina and to place the blame on males and to equate them with rapine tendencies, as you do, is dismaying, because it so unlike you. I know girls who go to clubs just to pick a conquest and I know girls, who are labeled as sluts, because they throw themselves at any guy after having one too many.

Bina, like they say: equal rights, equal blame! Welcome to the club! :)

Re: Bina #55

As the bard said: the lady doth protest too much..

How about girls women who paw drunk guys?

During my college days, there was one particular girl who would frequent parties with the sole intention of getting laid. She would wait for the guys to get drunk and then guide them into a room where she would have sex with them. In one instance, at a party at the house, we caught her having sex with a guy who was passed out on the floor. She merely moved him behind some couches, removed his pants and proceded to have her way with him!

Is that not a defination of a date rape? I highly doubt that he consented to having sex with her. Drunk and being stupid is a two way street Bina and to place the blame on males and to equate them with rapine tendencies, as you do, is dismaying, because it so unlike you. I know girls who go to clubs just to pick a conquest and I know girls, who are labeled as sluts, because they throw themselves at any guy after having one too many.

Bina, like they say: equal rights, equal blame! Welcome to the club! :)

Bina, have you been watching too many re-runs of `The Accused`?

I would like to tell you that not all guyz who drink, lose their innate sense of morality or conscience after having a few too many or take advantage of womyn who are trashed. It just depends on what sort of an individual you are. Every guy who drinks is not your potential rapist.

Though this is a serious topic, I couldn`t stop snickering at those who claim that alcohol makes people more creative, witty, entertaining, etc. etc. There is nothing more boring,obnoxious, irritating, and slightly frightening than a drunk man. At best he is a constant irritation, at worst he could be your rapist. Listening to some guy slurring, ``I`m not drunk, really I`m not`` or getting pawed by him on the dance floor or smelling his boozy breath is just not my idea of a good time. And for men who need alcohol to become just that little bit more relaxed, funny, or uninhibited... let me tell you that crutches are not attractive!

``mali`` can be found at masyed@gwu.edu.

do write!

re `mastanah`

first..thank you replying. what you say is true. there is only so much you can say and write,the rest is up to people themselves.but you must atleast let them know their options.and you must never forget the possibility that you yourself might be wrong, which i think was the flaw of the system we went through..it was brainwashing, teaching us an end without the means to get there, an ideology without any accompanying thought process.i don`t know about you, but in retrospect i see my actions and my writing as a form of catharsis and atonement for those years in which i..we (hopefully)..all sensed something was very wrong but were powerless to change it.
on a more personal note ..mohammed ali syed? ex-grammarian? year ahead of me? product of the same system?
IF you are the `mali` i remember, i`d just like to tell you i have been looking for you. hope all goes well with you, and if possible drop me a line.

shandana

justice is never given shandana, it is taken. as long as our elites have the means to suppress they will carry on doing it and getting away. be it killing someone in a car accident, or exploiting ehtnic hatred to stay in power. what we need is to stop crying about what we are denied, but start planning about what we can acquire by our hard work and determination. i see no obstacle that cannot be conquered by an iron will and sincere dedication. although i admire your writing, and high moral fibre, and most of all am inspired by your courage. it does take a lot of guts to speak out against a system of which you yourself are a product. and i myself am no exception, having been to that same elite school where all good writers seems to come from!

but the fact is that we know all too well what is wrong with us, what we do not know is how to fix things. what we need now is action, and a realization that none but ourselves can help us. and at the end of the day our destiny is written not by anyone other than ourselves. justice will not trickle down from the heavens, nor will the sweet wine of liberty pour down from the skies.

the seeds of equality and justice need to be planted and nourished, with creativity and love, so that thay may grow into strong trees and bear fruit that we all may one day share.

mohammad ali syed

--

Shandana,

Relax, i`m definitely not getting `worked up`, just enjoying a good intellectual debate, with the losers obliged to buy drinks for the cyber-house. Btw, Slink, your comments were very perceptive, with a writers economy of words, you say much.

Incidently, i`d like to leave Dr.Shafqat with one final analogy to his solution to the `problem` of alcohol. Another analogy that suits his solution is that of a drunk, driving. Why you ask?

Well, both are equally indiscriminate. Dr. Shafqat, with his target as all alcohol drinkers, and the drunk, with just about anyone and everyone on the road. Ironic isin`t it Dr.S, that we have now compled a full circle with your logic, from where we started this thing.

I do not of course go so far with my syllogism as to say that drunk driving is not the problem, rather it is you! :) Although, i`m amused at the thought. I`ve been laughing through this entire debate.

CHEERS !!!

Re: Bins # 49

Bina, could you please re-post your comments. Seems like they were chopped off in mid-submission.

JBokhari # 47

Relax! The person in whose house the party was held is a professional bartender. No one drove home that night. Most caught rides and some were driven home in cabs, called in by the host.

Erin Go Bragh and to hell with the Brits!

Though this is a serious topic, I couldn`t stop snickering at those who claim that alcohol makes people more creative, witty, entertaining, etc. etc. There is nothing more boring, obnoxious, irritating, and slightly frightening than