Kamran Akhtar May 27, 1999
#42 Posted by sabrina on June 10, 1999 3:42:19 pm
Re: zeemax
Brown on the outside and white on the inside=chiku
It`s a fruit.
Brown on the outside and white on the inside=chiku
It`s a fruit.
#41 Posted by Asim on June 10, 1999 3:42:19 pm
Zeemax wrote:``When I lived in Hong Kong, there was a word for San Francisco / LA Chinese ... ``Bananas``, because they were white on the inside but yellow on the outside``. What can I say about you ? Gotta come up with a fruit that`s white on the inside and brown on the outside.
The fruit you are looking for could be a coconut. This epression is heavily used in U.K to describe the ever increasing numbers of Englsih Pakistanis who are perhaps more English than the queen herself.
Though i find zeemax`s classification of the author a tad harsh, i must point out that perhaps most of us suffer from the same syndrome in widely differing quantities, and quite possibly are even unaware of it that we do.
Re : the article
Regarding the article, I thought, Kamran had tackled a difficult issue about personality, identity, and social norms and pressures.While the article was quite long, and at times tedious, it still made me want to continue reading his descriptions till the end.
I feel too that the article was more an exploration of inner self than a travelogue, though the vents surrounding his travelogue helped him to focus better on conflciting issues within him.
I could not fathom much about his insistence of putting that Saima lassie on to a pedestal, in regards to the other lady whom he had knocked about with minimal regard to courtesy and norms of gentelmanly behaviour. In fact i did not see the necessity of suffering through his description of losing his err,... ``cherry``. except maybe to contrast agsisn the deep respct he had for that saima lassie. Saima is also deliberately painted as the lady of the orient, who is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, to borrow a popular eupheism.
Anyways, I must say if the second part is about half the length of this one. si one, i shall be delighted to read it. As the author says, like a conjuror about to pull a rabbit out of his long hat,..``All shall be revealed in due course``. I hope so too..
regards
Asim
The fruit you are looking for could be a coconut. This epression is heavily used in U.K to describe the ever increasing numbers of Englsih Pakistanis who are perhaps more English than the queen herself.
Though i find zeemax`s classification of the author a tad harsh, i must point out that perhaps most of us suffer from the same syndrome in widely differing quantities, and quite possibly are even unaware of it that we do.
Re : the article
Regarding the article, I thought, Kamran had tackled a difficult issue about personality, identity, and social norms and pressures.While the article was quite long, and at times tedious, it still made me want to continue reading his descriptions till the end.
I feel too that the article was more an exploration of inner self than a travelogue, though the vents surrounding his travelogue helped him to focus better on conflciting issues within him.
I could not fathom much about his insistence of putting that Saima lassie on to a pedestal, in regards to the other lady whom he had knocked about with minimal regard to courtesy and norms of gentelmanly behaviour. In fact i did not see the necessity of suffering through his description of losing his err,... ``cherry``. except maybe to contrast agsisn the deep respct he had for that saima lassie. Saima is also deliberately painted as the lady of the orient, who is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, to borrow a popular eupheism.
Anyways, I must say if the second part is about half the length of this one. si one, i shall be delighted to read it. As the author says, like a conjuror about to pull a rabbit out of his long hat,..``All shall be revealed in due course``. I hope so too..
regards
Asim
#40 Posted by ferozk on June 10, 1999 3:02:33 pm
Re: Bina
Oh the heartache! No more hole in the wall!! I will look for you up when and if I return to land, which common sense forgot. I will take you up on that tour, if there is beer involved! :)
Re: Kant Patel
Looking down a barrel?! I would not worry about that too much. For one, those idiots who carry AK-47s as symbols of male impotence in Pakistan do not know how to aim and fire a fire a weapon, much less do anything worth while with it and secondly, I would bet you that they have never cleaned their weapons; hell, that thing might just backfire and blow his head off, because it would be filled with dirt and clogged with grease!
As to the hole, that information was given to me courtsey of a mulvi sahib who worked in the Masjid near the KAS! He would also teach Quran to me and my brother!!! Besides, I would tell him what I saw and he never mentioned that it was a sin! :)
Oh the heartache! No more hole in the wall!! I will look for you up when and if I return to land, which common sense forgot. I will take you up on that tour, if there is beer involved! :)
Re: Kant Patel
Looking down a barrel?! I would not worry about that too much. For one, those idiots who carry AK-47s as symbols of male impotence in Pakistan do not know how to aim and fire a fire a weapon, much less do anything worth while with it and secondly, I would bet you that they have never cleaned their weapons; hell, that thing might just backfire and blow his head off, because it would be filled with dirt and clogged with grease!
As to the hole, that information was given to me courtsey of a mulvi sahib who worked in the Masjid near the KAS! He would also teach Quran to me and my brother!!! Besides, I would tell him what I saw and he never mentioned that it was a sin! :)
#39 Posted by Bina on June 10, 1999 4:04:34 am
Ferozk:
There is no hole in the wall anymore. I should know because I go swimming there on a regular basis. If you ever decide to return to Karachi, look me up and I`ll take you to KAS for an inside look at that illusive swimming pool...
Kamran:
I`m touched that...Oh, forget it.
To General Chowk Friends:
Am off on vacation. See you all in August! Have a great summer.
There is no hole in the wall anymore. I should know because I go swimming there on a regular basis. If you ever decide to return to Karachi, look me up and I`ll take you to KAS for an inside look at that illusive swimming pool...
Kamran:
I`m touched that...Oh, forget it.
To General Chowk Friends:
Am off on vacation. See you all in August! Have a great summer.
#38 Posted by kamran9999 on June 10, 1999 1:22:22 am
Re: veeresh zeemax Ferozk Kant Patel
Well, it looks like everyone`s got their own version of the journey. Which is fine. :)
Re: Bina
I`m touched that you`re touched that I`m touched.
Re: Zehra
``chowkwalas are that way...they will criticize it but love to know about ones personal life. when part 2 comes out, how many of them wont read it? few, if any.``
I`m hoping they`ll all read it. :) But I know what you mean. It`s human nature really.
-!Kamran!-
Well, it looks like everyone`s got their own version of the journey. Which is fine. :)
Re: Bina
I`m touched that you`re touched that I`m touched.
Re: Zehra
``chowkwalas are that way...they will criticize it but love to know about ones personal life. when part 2 comes out, how many of them wont read it? few, if any.``
I`m hoping they`ll all read it. :) But I know what you mean. It`s human nature really.
-!Kamran!-
#37 Posted by Kant_Patel on June 9, 1999 7:23:34 pm
Re: Ferozk #37
Shame on you, Feroz, for being a peeping tom! Be careful next time. There may be a hole, but you may be looking through the barrel of a gun!
Just kidding.
Shame on you, Feroz, for being a peeping tom! Be careful next time. There may be a hole, but you may be looking through the barrel of a gun!
Just kidding.
#36 Posted by ferozk on June 9, 1999 1:58:06 pm
Re: Kant Patel
Oy vey! You have hit the nail right on the head!
You minded me of my dad and how he would wax lyrical about Agra, his home town or how my mom would miss the beaches of Bombay, where she would play as a little girl and yet they never went back, because they wanted to cherish their childhood memories and wished to remember things as they were and not as they might be!
One of these days, when I return to Pakistan, I will go back to our old house at 187-D KDA-1 in Karachi and walk over to the American school and see if there is a brick still missing in the wall, near where the swimming pool was! We should peer through the hole, in the wall, at the girls swimming and then go the Masjid, which was nearby and drink some water and then play cricket all afternoon!!!
Oy vey! You have hit the nail right on the head!
You minded me of my dad and how he would wax lyrical about Agra, his home town or how my mom would miss the beaches of Bombay, where she would play as a little girl and yet they never went back, because they wanted to cherish their childhood memories and wished to remember things as they were and not as they might be!
One of these days, when I return to Pakistan, I will go back to our old house at 187-D KDA-1 in Karachi and walk over to the American school and see if there is a brick still missing in the wall, near where the swimming pool was! We should peer through the hole, in the wall, at the girls swimming and then go the Masjid, which was nearby and drink some water and then play cricket all afternoon!!!
#35 Posted by Kant_Patel on June 8, 1999 4:24:40 pm
Re: Ferozk #35
I agree with you about the shock effect of the journey to the Desh.
I recently saw the Bollywood movie `Aa Ab Lot Chale`, a story about the NRIs & NRPs, filmed almost entirely in NJ. The very first song, a chorus, is about the nostalgia of `vatan`. The NRIs & NRPs ask the recently arrived Indian whether back home grandmas still tell bedtime stories to the kids,or sing songs about the bridegroom`s face at a wedding, or on festivals still `ghar ghar laddoo bikhte hai?`,etc. The hero says yes to all these. Now, I know that these things are no more. The beauty of nostalgia is that it gives rise to some sweet moments and memories that we all would like to save and savour. It is kind of a memory bank. Every so often we draw upon it, chew a little bit, and reminisce and get some sustainance, then get back to our monotonous chores. However, the same nostalgia often makes us go back to vatan to relive it ,so to speak. What do you find when you do go & visit! Zilch! Nothing! All that is shattered. Yes, you feel a stranger in a strange land. A firangi in your own vatan. You feel like your disc drive has suddenly crashed, and you lost everything that you so carefully and laboriously saved. You feel being cheated. So,I would rather have my sweet memories to mull over than being hit by the stark realizations. These days, fantasies are worth more pleasing than sober realities.
Kant............!
I agree with you about the shock effect of the journey to the Desh.
I recently saw the Bollywood movie `Aa Ab Lot Chale`, a story about the NRIs & NRPs, filmed almost entirely in NJ. The very first song, a chorus, is about the nostalgia of `vatan`. The NRIs & NRPs ask the recently arrived Indian whether back home grandmas still tell bedtime stories to the kids,or sing songs about the bridegroom`s face at a wedding, or on festivals still `ghar ghar laddoo bikhte hai?`,etc. The hero says yes to all these. Now, I know that these things are no more. The beauty of nostalgia is that it gives rise to some sweet moments and memories that we all would like to save and savour. It is kind of a memory bank. Every so often we draw upon it, chew a little bit, and reminisce and get some sustainance, then get back to our monotonous chores. However, the same nostalgia often makes us go back to vatan to relive it ,so to speak. What do you find when you do go & visit! Zilch! Nothing! All that is shattered. Yes, you feel a stranger in a strange land. A firangi in your own vatan. You feel like your disc drive has suddenly crashed, and you lost everything that you so carefully and laboriously saved. You feel being cheated. So,I would rather have my sweet memories to mull over than being hit by the stark realizations. These days, fantasies are worth more pleasing than sober realities.
Kant............!
#34 Posted by ferozk on June 7, 1999 7:08:23 pm
Re: Kamran9999
I do not know what you wanted to be and I do not need know that bit of info. :)
Speaking strictly for myself, a week ago I burned all the letters from my ex and BBQed a journal I had since college, because I just did not see a point in keeping them any longer. The only letter, which I thought of keeping was a letter Lynn, my ex, had mailed to me in Pakistan, during a summer vacation, asking me what I thought of Pakistan.
My response was that I was not sure. I was not sure if Pakistan had changed or whether I had changed. Looking back, I think there is no difference between the States and Pakistan, because everyone is busy pretending to be someone or something, which they are not. The love of money and its blind pursuit are a national past time in both nations.
After some reflection, I burned that letter too and the more I thought about it, the more I discovered that a closer appoximation of an answer would something like Joseph Conrad`s ``Heart of Darness``. The question, which I have to ask myself is if I really want to undertake an inward journey only to find that I do not like what I might find.
At the end of the First World War, a Belgian author by the name of Emil Verhoeven wrote a book about his experinces in that war and in end he sadly concluded that he was, ``not the man I used to be``. Unlike Verhoeven, I am not interested in a journey and in finding out I am not what I used to be and can never be again. A certain part of me still yearns for the past, but as I told Lynn when she picked me up at the airport, ``it is nice being home again``, and that is how I felt about my journey to Pakistan; I was a stranger in a strange land.
I do not know what you wanted to be and I do not need know that bit of info. :)
Speaking strictly for myself, a week ago I burned all the letters from my ex and BBQed a journal I had since college, because I just did not see a point in keeping them any longer. The only letter, which I thought of keeping was a letter Lynn, my ex, had mailed to me in Pakistan, during a summer vacation, asking me what I thought of Pakistan.
My response was that I was not sure. I was not sure if Pakistan had changed or whether I had changed. Looking back, I think there is no difference between the States and Pakistan, because everyone is busy pretending to be someone or something, which they are not. The love of money and its blind pursuit are a national past time in both nations.
After some reflection, I burned that letter too and the more I thought about it, the more I discovered that a closer appoximation of an answer would something like Joseph Conrad`s ``Heart of Darness``. The question, which I have to ask myself is if I really want to undertake an inward journey only to find that I do not like what I might find.
At the end of the First World War, a Belgian author by the name of Emil Verhoeven wrote a book about his experinces in that war and in end he sadly concluded that he was, ``not the man I used to be``. Unlike Verhoeven, I am not interested in a journey and in finding out I am not what I used to be and can never be again. A certain part of me still yearns for the past, but as I told Lynn when she picked me up at the airport, ``it is nice being home again``, and that is how I felt about my journey to Pakistan; I was a stranger in a strange land.
#33 Posted by Bina on June 7, 1999 11:48:15 am
The term, Zeemax, as coined by Asians in the UK, is ``Coconuts``. And the black community calls their own ``Oreos``. I`ve always found these terms to be particularly nasty, as they are so judgemental. I guess everyone has to make his or her own inward journey to figure out how white and how brown they really want to be.
Kamran: I`m touched by your being touched. You did ask for my thoughts, so I was happy to oblige.
Kamran: I`m touched by your being touched. You did ask for my thoughts, so I was happy to oblige.
#32 Posted by Zehra on June 7, 1999 10:50:54 am
re kamran :
re: maTha
``What are we, morons?``
Not all.
hahahah..if anything kamran, you make me laugh..i havent commented on your piece yet and i dont think i will be..its YOUR journey and YOUR preceptions and be that as they may, right or wrong (i prefer neither) they are yours. its voyeristic to be able to read them, but chowkwalas are that way...they will criticize it but love to know about ones personal life. when part 2 comes out, how many of them wont read it? few, if any.
rizvi
re: maTha
``What are we, morons?``
Not all.
hahahah..if anything kamran, you make me laugh..i havent commented on your piece yet and i dont think i will be..its YOUR journey and YOUR preceptions and be that as they may, right or wrong (i prefer neither) they are yours. its voyeristic to be able to read them, but chowkwalas are that way...they will criticize it but love to know about ones personal life. when part 2 comes out, how many of them wont read it? few, if any.
rizvi
#31 Posted by zeemax on June 7, 1999 8:15:13 am
Re : Kamran Akhtar
When I lived in Hong Kong, there was a word for San Francisco / LA Chinese ... ``Bananas``, because they were white on the inside but yellow on the outside.
What can I say about you ? Gotta come up with a fruit that`s white on the inside and brown on the outside.
I sympathise with the identity crisis you felt although I doubt you have identified it as such .. but hiding behind cliche`s.
zeemax
When I lived in Hong Kong, there was a word for San Francisco / LA Chinese ... ``Bananas``, because they were white on the inside but yellow on the outside.
What can I say about you ? Gotta come up with a fruit that`s white on the inside and brown on the outside.
I sympathise with the identity crisis you felt although I doubt you have identified it as such .. but hiding behind cliche`s.
zeemax
#30 Posted by veeresh on June 6, 1999 4:36:55 pm
What does one say? Sounds like similar diaries from cousins who `honour` us by descending on us in India. Fair enough, these are your views, kind Sir, but must they sound like two-thirds of the people who were, possibly, on your trans-Atlantic flight?
#29 Posted by kamran9999 on June 6, 1999 12:42:24 am
I must admit that I`m heartened to see this ``very long`` story evoke such strong reactions among some.
Re: Bina
Wow...where to start? Well...thanks first of all for such a thorough read and review, Bina. I`m touched. :)
As to the leitmotif of cultural superiority you noticed, Saima Shah addressed it better than I could have. I agree with her. Thanks, Saima.
(It is a bit freaky that she has the same name as my heroine but I can`t complain. I like the name).
``Why are you so willing to describe the details of your sexual encounter with Sue rather graphically and yet skirt the issue so delicately with Saima? Did you feel more protective of the latter?``
That`s probably true. It was a recent experience compared to a decade ago with Sue. But more aptly, Kamran was reminded of the sexual encounter with Sue, hence the lascivious line (which I didn`t think was all that graphic personally). Whereas, the encounter with Saima was emotional and not at all sexual (at least this is how Kamran remembers it) that particular night. The point to get across was that they had a fight that night and went to bed angry with each other (Kamran wasn`t in any condition to be amorous in any case).
The piece seemed unfinished to you because it is unfinished. As far as the stronger story that you want, I`ll try to start living a stronger life for you starting today, Bina. :)
Thanks again (really) for all your ``judicious`` comments.
re: maTha
``What are we, morons?``
Not all.
re: Soldotna
``This so-called inward journey is Third World bashing``
Really, how interesting. I don`t agree with this at all. It was a perspective. A conflicted one at that.
re: Ferozk
``one never comes across as one might have imagined themselves to be!``
Well, that would depend on what Kamran might have imgained himself to be, I suppose. And you don`t know what that is.
re: Saima Shah
Phew! Thanks for coming to my rescue, Saima. :) And thanks for your deep comments. I couldn`t have verbalized them better myself.
I have not read ``The Diary of Bridget Jones`` but I would like to. I have to say that I have gotten some pretty interesting suggestions for leisure reading from Chowkwalas. Now if I can just find that all-too-non-existent leisure time to actually follow through....
Re: Godot
``Too long``
Point taken.
-!Kamran!-
Re: Bina
Wow...where to start? Well...thanks first of all for such a thorough read and review, Bina. I`m touched. :)
As to the leitmotif of cultural superiority you noticed, Saima Shah addressed it better than I could have. I agree with her. Thanks, Saima.
(It is a bit freaky that she has the same name as my heroine but I can`t complain. I like the name).
``Why are you so willing to describe the details of your sexual encounter with Sue rather graphically and yet skirt the issue so delicately with Saima? Did you feel more protective of the latter?``
That`s probably true. It was a recent experience compared to a decade ago with Sue. But more aptly, Kamran was reminded of the sexual encounter with Sue, hence the lascivious line (which I didn`t think was all that graphic personally). Whereas, the encounter with Saima was emotional and not at all sexual (at least this is how Kamran remembers it) that particular night. The point to get across was that they had a fight that night and went to bed angry with each other (Kamran wasn`t in any condition to be amorous in any case).
The piece seemed unfinished to you because it is unfinished. As far as the stronger story that you want, I`ll try to start living a stronger life for you starting today, Bina. :)
Thanks again (really) for all your ``judicious`` comments.
re: maTha
``What are we, morons?``
Not all.
re: Soldotna
``This so-called inward journey is Third World bashing``
Really, how interesting. I don`t agree with this at all. It was a perspective. A conflicted one at that.
re: Ferozk
``one never comes across as one might have imagined themselves to be!``
Well, that would depend on what Kamran might have imgained himself to be, I suppose. And you don`t know what that is.
re: Saima Shah
Phew! Thanks for coming to my rescue, Saima. :) And thanks for your deep comments. I couldn`t have verbalized them better myself.
I have not read ``The Diary of Bridget Jones`` but I would like to. I have to say that I have gotten some pretty interesting suggestions for leisure reading from Chowkwalas. Now if I can just find that all-too-non-existent leisure time to actually follow through....
Re: Godot
``Too long``
Point taken.
-!Kamran!-
#28 Posted by Godot on June 4, 1999 12:49:40 pm
Re: Kamran, #17
``Where is he when you need him?``
Isn`t that Godot for you! Where is he when you need him.
``Surely (waiting for) Godot can appreciate it.``
My attention span is quite short! I quit reading it about one-third way through. Too long. Sorry about it. Hence, no opinion.
``Where is he when you need him?``
Isn`t that Godot for you! Where is he when you need him.
``Surely (waiting for) Godot can appreciate it.``
My attention span is quite short! I quit reading it about one-third way through. Too long. Sorry about it. Hence, no opinion.
#27 Posted by SaimaShah on June 3, 1999 1:17:21 pm
Re: Just saw your response to my comments, from one `Chowk Elder`....:), heres some more smoke from my pipe:
Regarding the cultural superiority complex. I did not object to that feeling; maybe I dont think that any culture can lay intrinsic claim to being superior. Isn`t it always about individual perception? Logic: If A thinks belonging to some Club is superior than being a beggar than A will perforce perceive people who belong to a club superior....So we /have/ to at some level of our thought process have passed a judgement or picked up a value in order to assign cultural superiority. Where do these infernal values come from? From the very culture we inhabit..i.e., poor Nazimabad, Defence and Clifton. We are united in the way we assign importance to Western symbols. And also lets face it, the protagonist is the `arrived` edition of those boys who wannabe.
I got the feeling that the protagonist thought Pakistanis were a little stupid/naive/wannabe, but he still belonged here; that these were his memories; his roots which pull him with a force that he finds hard to rationalize.
As for the attitudes on women; it was fascinating to see that the protagonist had different slots for women abroad and local women. Somehow, the merest hint of the sexuality of local women is odd and comment worthy, whereas one may accept/relate to sex/sexuality abroad.
The protagonists double standards/hang-ups are what makes this such an interesting trip into his mind and lends it such a human touch. I look forward to part 2. Once again, I must say I liked its honesty and touches of humour eg., the popularity of the Saima name. Much to my continuing despair, the name is incredibly common.
BTW, have you read, `The Diary of Bridget Jones?` Should read, if you have not...I think you may like it.
Regarding the cultural superiority complex. I did not object to that feeling; maybe I dont think that any culture can lay intrinsic claim to being superior. Isn`t it always about individual perception? Logic: If A thinks belonging to some Club is superior than being a beggar than A will perforce perceive people who belong to a club superior....So we /have/ to at some level of our thought process have passed a judgement or picked up a value in order to assign cultural superiority. Where do these infernal values come from? From the very culture we inhabit..i.e., poor Nazimabad, Defence and Clifton. We are united in the way we assign importance to Western symbols. And also lets face it, the protagonist is the `arrived` edition of those boys who wannabe.
I got the feeling that the protagonist thought Pakistanis were a little stupid/naive/wannabe, but he still belonged here; that these were his memories; his roots which pull him with a force that he finds hard to rationalize.
As for the attitudes on women; it was fascinating to see that the protagonist had different slots for women abroad and local women. Somehow, the merest hint of the sexuality of local women is odd and comment worthy, whereas one may accept/relate to sex/sexuality abroad.
The protagonists double standards/hang-ups are what makes this such an interesting trip into his mind and lends it such a human touch. I look forward to part 2. Once again, I must say I liked its honesty and touches of humour eg., the popularity of the Saima name. Much to my continuing despair, the name is incredibly common.
BTW, have you read, `The Diary of Bridget Jones?` Should read, if you have not...I think you may like it.
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