The World Cup Final 1999 - A Preview

Re:Reply #: 10 Saima Shah

``just a note to say your articles have been wonderful during the world-cup and thank you for the time and effort required to write these down for us. This article is just as good as the ones before and quite enlightening for people like me.``

Thankyou very much for your encouragement.

``The biased umpiring from Sheppard was sad to see in a World Cup final,``

Yes I think he needs to hang it up. His time has come.

Mofeez

re rishi

thanks for the welcome. i`ll try to be brief.

1. i never said what the US is doing in yugoslavia is the right thing to do/have done. therefore, by extension, you cannot argue for anythign done in iraq.

2. i am referring to both the governments and armies of india and pakistan as responsible for the current crisis. having said that, any pakistani or indian who gives in to blanked hatred against the other is also to blame on an individual level. i dont hold those indians who celebrate the pakistani cricket team`s defeat in the final in very high esteem, no matter what the pakistani army is/is not doing along the LOC. (and i would feel the same way about pakistanis who did something similar)

3. i find it very interesting that you take my analogy about the iraqis and the americans around towards issues of `freedom of speech` and `democracy`. even hanging on to this thread, dont you think its interesting that some people living in a so-called democracy are not able to distinguish between saddam hussein/his army and ordinary arabs living in the US, while their govt goes to war against iraq for invading a neighbor. (notice that the US had not been invaded, kuwait has been. ) meanwhile, common iraqis have enough sense, even during a war against them led by the US, to distinguish between US americans and the US govt.

Re: Faraz # 17

Opps....just saw the mistake. I meant Oliver Stone! Sorry for the typo!

Re: Faraz

`` What an endearing story. I`m glad that one team`s misfortune has helped to bring your country together. ``

-- you did not get the point . did you ? It is not the team`s misfortune that has helped to bring India together, but your army`s miscalculation . The World cup final was only a vent to the pent-up emotions in India . If you read my message again, you would note that i did mention the way the same people responded to the Pak victory in Madras. Again, i was trying to point out how radicalised people in this part of India have become over the last month or so. Don`t read the symptoms as the malaise my friend.

Re: BG

``whether i am united with the hate mongers is quite another question.``

-- let me put it this way. I am reasonably certain that you are not one such hate monger. Your postings never reflected that mentality.

``meanwhile in the us, brown people who were suspected of being arab (an indian friend of mine included) were being harassed on college campuses, workplaces, streets, etc.``

-- Again i am reasonably certain that there are many Iraqis in the US who are treated with due respect by the Americans. Many a American do realize that the US action is against Saddam and not against the Iraqi people.

`` the iraqis could distinguish between americans and their govt even though the americans could not.``

-- that is a gross generalization at worst BG. Here you are comparing the generocity of a few Iraqis against the perceived ignorance of all Americans. And this while living in a country where you can and are protesting against the same actions of the American government. Wonder how the people and the govt of Iraq would react if you protest against its actions and go the press about it , deriding its policies while living in Iraq. Myopic ???? or tunnel vision ???? - your choice.

Why is it that the American action in Iraq wrong while it is the best thing they could do in Yugoslavia. Atleast Serbia rightly or wrongly was trying to hold on to its territory while Iraq invaded another country. ? could you care to answer this question .

``i reiterate that fascists forge unity in hatred because they have no other vision.``

-- and I agree.

``that is what pakistani governments have done forever and the indian govt has done forever. ``

-- You should know better. There must be a degree of measurement involved here and i have my guesses to where the balance swings.

``it is sad indeed when ordinary folks buy it.``

-- Yes, it is sad and that is why i wrote the posting.

`` you mention it without assigning responsiblity to all guilty. ``

-- and whom would you think is the guilty here . On a wide guess , you are probably alluding to the Indian govt or the Indian press or even the international press which has time and again laid enough stress on the fact of Intruders being responsible for the current flare up in Kargil. Or on a long shot , you could probably be mentioning the Pak Army or the goverment as the guilty too.

Rishi

p.s: Again it was nice to see you in these pages after a long time. Was almost wondering if you had taken a sabbatical ?

Re: SR # 15

Thanks for identifying the ``mind set``, which takes any normal situation and turns it into an anti-Pakistan conspiracy.

I am being sarcastic here, but maybe we should ask Oliver North to make a movie about the all anti-Pakistan conspiracies and then share in the box-office profits with him and use that money to pay the interests on our external debts!

As to the finals, all I have to say on that is: lets sing ``you will come a waltzing Matilda with me`` and put some shrimp on the barbe!

Re: Saima Shah

[``...The biased umpiring from Sheppard ... in a World Cup final, and it ...made the final very short ... what a hoo haa there would have been if the same decision had been made against an Australian...``]

This statement from you, Saima, of all people, was a real surprise for me. You are one of the most balanced and enlightened ones in these murky waters.

I, of course, didn`t see (nor cared for) the play you refer to as unfairly adjudicated, but from reading your reference I assume that a white umpire rendered a judgement against a Paki player.

The troubling thing is that Pakistanis are particularly prone to this mentality where they interpret any judgement which is not in their team`s favor as `bias`. This is most unfortunate. I remember 1972 Olympic hockey match against Germany when Zulfikar Ali Bhutto almost broke off diplomatic relations with Argentina because their umpire was `bias` against the Paki team. Why don`t we ever hear about anyone being biased against, say, Japan, or China, or Russia or a European team? Could it be that they don`t suffer from the same collective sense of persecution mania like we do?

Sadly its always poor little banana republics that do such immature things as go to war over football matches. This is really tragic. And see what this madness of crowds does: it even effects clear headed individuals such as yourself. I`m talking about a mind-set. A mind-set that gets totally consumed by the mass hysteria of a stupid sporting event (damned be the threat of nuclear war or economic collapse -- we are into escapism) and then tries to manufacture ficticious enemies to explain away failure.

It is this very national mentality that finds an Indian spy under every bed, a CIA agent in every closet and a KGB plot behind every national fiasco. Its always the Zionists, or communists, or capitalistic imperialists, or Hindu fascists, or Bengali trators, or Drug, or free Sex, or Rock-n-roll that causes all of our social ailments. We, of course, are perfect and do no wrong. And yes, just because we are paranoid, doesn`t mean they are not really out to get us.

...SR

PS: I hope you will not take a personal affront, you know I am being silly...but, really, I am also half serious about the gist of it.

We got thumped! The batting totally let us down. But I have faith the team will recover; given the youth in the side.

Re: Feroz``I`m too frigging cool for cricket``k

For someone who thinks cricket is a giant waste of time, you sure do spend a lot of time posting to these articles. Also, Oliver North making movies?; your knowledge of cinema seems to rival your appreciation of true sport. :)

Re: Saima Shah

I agree that Shep made some horrible decisions. I don`t think it was biased, but he does desrve criticism. Javed Akhtar made a very bad decision in the India-England game, and the media would not let it go. And if Shep did make a mistake in giving two crucial Pakistan batsman out(and mind you it was the final), then damnit I sure as heck am going to criticize him (even if he is a fat and jolly harmless Englishman)

Re: Rishi

What an endearing story. I`m glad that one team`s misfortune has helped to bring your country together.

....waiting for football season

Faraz

Re: bg, rishi

I know we are on a tangent to the main topic.

Unity in itself is no virtue, and I donot imply that either of you mean that. However, such unity ,I am afraid, will harden the opinion in both countries, and will, therefore, will make it more difficult to arrive at any workable solution. Lately, there was some sign in both countries of openly discussing & considering various alternatives. This unfortunately will be shelved, and more rigid postures will hold sway.

re rishi

``But then you should be more familiar to such unity having experienced it over all these years almost first hand, would`nt you ? ``

i have seen it in pakistan, yes. whether i am united with the hate mongers is quite another question.

let me share something with you. a white american friend was travelling in iraq during the gulf war while iraq was being bombarded daily by the us and its allies. on a bus trip to the south, the guy forgot to take his passport and papers along as required. when the military started checking everyone`s papers, he realized his grave mistake. when the soldier came up to him and he admitted he was travelling without papers, the iraqis -- peasants, women, old men -- came to his rescue and told the soldier to let him be. they were friendly and told my friend that they realized the destruction of their country was a result of the us govt`s decisions, not his. meanwhile in the us, brown people who were suspected of being arab (an indian friend of mine included) were being harassed on college campuses, workplaces, streets, etc. the iraqis could distinguish between americans and their govt even though the americans could not.

i reiterate that fascists forge unity in hatred because they have no other vision. that is what pakistani governments have done forever and the indian govt has done forever. it is sad indeed when ordinary folks buy it and you mention it without assigning responsiblity to all guilty.

Re: BG.

And it need not always be hatred. It could be fear, despair and also a reaction to hatred.

It could be a nationalistic govt`s propaganda, but then the fact remains that it is`nt atleast here. But then you should be more familiar to such unity having experienced it over all these years almost first hand, would`nt you ?

Rishi

Re: BG

Nice to see you in these pages after quite some time. Yes, I agree could be a line from any nationalistic propaganda. All i am trying to point out is that this kind of thing was earlier only possible in Pakistan. Indians were never united in their hatred for pakistan the way the pakistanis were (that is quite a wild guess. could be a matter of perception too). I am just trying to point out how times are changing and the causes behind them. don`t mean to belittle anyone or is this propaganda.

rishi

Dear Mofeez,

just a note to say your articles have been wonderful during the world-cup and thank you for the time and effort required to write these down for us. This article is just as good as the ones before and quite enlightening for people like me.

I did not mind the fact that Pakistan lost but the way they did. They just lost their verve and their nerve both at the same time. The biased umpiring from Sheppard was sad to see in a World Cup final, and it unfortunately made the final very short as well. I shudder to think what a hoo haa there would have been if the same decision had been made against an Australian.

a final note is that perhaps the Aussies were the team most hungry for the win.

re: rishi

``is`nt it an irony that Pakistan ended up uniting india by trying to
divide it``

could be a line from any nationalistic government`s propaganda. unity in hatred is what fascists are good at.

Re:

Good game by Australia. On a divergent note, i have a rather relevant anecdote thats worth sharing. A friend of mine (christian) lives

in a city in southern tamil nadu in India. This city is as far removed from Pakistan both physically and emotionally from Pakistan. The people are from a different race and follow different cultures from the hindi heartland. They dress differently, they eat differently and they don`t understand Hindi or Urdu. A sizeable section of this state are muslims while the majority are Hindus . However these Hindus do not pray to the same gods as the North Indians do. And their version of Hinduism is markedly different. They have had no sense of kinship with the people from the North .In fact, people from this region always had a marked hatred towards anything Hindi. None of the indo-pak wars or even independance has affected

this part of the country where hinduism or brahminism is despised. The ruling parties of this state have almost always been propagating atheism and anti-hinduism and infact the leading father figure of these parties (the dravidian movement)had once made a garland of slippers and put it on an idol of Ram. And all

this was not very long back. Only just a few years ago.

This is what my friend emailed me about Sunday the 20th of July.

``in the entire city was filled with the dhamaka of fire crackers the moment the winning shot was hit. N u could find the youth (hindus, muslims

christians) out in the streets like they normally do on the eve of new yr. People were so happy

they distributed sweets and rejoiced. The local Muslim biriyani shop distributed free sweets and biriyani was half rate. Even my mother who never cares about cricket let alone pakistan was very happy. I don`t think even the Australians

would have celebrated so much ``

A very sorry state indeed. The India I knew was never like this. Actually the same city rejoiced in Pakistan`s previous world cup victory just because they played well and because Imran Khan as a cricketer was very popular. And not

a few days back, the entire stadium in Madras (the state capital) gave a standing ovation to Akram and his boys when they defeated the Indians despite Sachin`s brave knock.

Reflecting on what my friend said, is`nt it an irony that Pakistan ended up uniting india by trying to divide it.

Rishi

At least NOW you people will agree that cricket sux, cricket should be banned and that the Pakistani as well as Indian cricket teams, add to that the Sri Lankan cricket team, should all be sent on a one-way visa to Bangladesh, where they should stay forever.

Right?

A really pathetic performance by Pakistan. Australia deserve to be World Champions. The
better team certainly won today.

Ras