Loyal to Pakistan? Why?

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Und Yet another perspective

My, My. A Paki who hates Paki-land! Good Lawrd! What is the world coming to! And he dares write such unmentionable filth about it too! The filthy country, filthy people, flthy corruption etc. For zis, ze firing squad alone will suffice! :)

Heil herr Musharraf, minister of propoganda und enlightenment, a beacon to us all (The truth is WHAT i say it is, WHEN i say it is). Adapted from Taming of the Shew. Cheers for Shakespearen plagiarism.

Now pardon me A.A, but (German accent with monacle in ze eye) your ancestors they came on the Mayflower wasn`t it? Aaah, no? Zen, ze Nina? Ze Pinta? Ze Santa Maria? No ...? oh, i see. So basically you travelled PIA quite often as a child. Now i understand where you get this complex. Undoubtly it has something to do with your childhood exposure to filthy illiterate old womyn who didn`t know how to use the toilets on board ze aircraft. Ah, yes, zis is now becoming a much clearer picture. So, you wanted to come to the land which invited you by saying, `give me your tired, your poor, your wretched, yearning to be free.` Ahhh. zis is excellent. Do u feel liberated from the stifling PIA flights experiences now that you finally have made it (here, and in life)? But it seems you have still not come to grips with ze childhood trauma that was inflicted on you by the people of zat ignorant land! Yeah, i forsee a large psychiatric bill in your future, it is fortunate you are gainfully employed. More sex, less Pakis. Get all ze Pakis out of your life immediately! BOYH! (Back to southern drawl, but this time wearing a

white sheet and carrying a burning cross onto your nicely manicured lush green lawn). Yeah, I`m talkin` to u boy! Where u from? Cambodia ? You git back there boy, if you kno whatz good fer yah.

Git boy!

Boy stammers: But, But, But, I never lived there.

KKK Clansman: You from there boy? You born therwe boy? I said GIT boy! GIT! you Gawd damn SOB, git! This my country boy! My land. You go back tah Paki-land, whereever the .uck yah come from you little chit! GIT!

Boy: But, this is the er land of er freedom er oppressed ... yearning to be free ... er

KKK: Git! (Continues Chewing Tabbaker)



maybe more later

Note: ALL my posts to be savoured in chronological order.

Re: My Bill

Shall I just forward it c/o Fataquie? Afterall, he does claim to know where u live! :)

You know the problem of Paki-land is also how we all just simply CAN`T understand why Paki-land isin`t EVERYBODY`s favorite vacation spot. Boggles the mind. Lets see now, official prohibition of alcohol, mind altering drugs, gambling, bikini clad-or entirely unclad womyn frowned upon, many activist competing religious groups bent upon spread of their version of the `true faith` and reconversion of muslims to Islam with patronage from the govt, greedy customs officials looking for every opportunity to have their palms greased, heat, electricity blackouts during summer, lack of entertainment, holier-than-thou attitude of the native populace, ethnic problems, sectarian violence, political vendettas, gender discriminatory laws, pollution, flies, disgusting state of public health and schools (Including public defacation), state controlled T.V, corruption at the highest levels and throughout the state bureauracy, to say nothing of the lastest possibility of death by nuclear vaporization that one can add to the list which is by no means complete. Yes, and its amazing just why its not everybody`s favorite vacation paradise now isin`t it! Can`t begin to imagine why!

On the other hand, most people have extended families and friends that have made it their abode and therefore like to visit them, plus the falsas (with mirch masala) and Mangoes are incomparable over there. So its a trade off buddy. Less freedom, more propaganda. You hear me boy? Kapish? Git? (picture Southern drawl with chewing tabbaker).:)

regards,

My dear fellow, A.A, its obvious you`ve got quite a complex as they say. Are you absolutely sure you`re getting laid often enough? I mean a lack of sex can really addle your head like nothing else if you`re forced to walk around with a hardon 24x7. Now it seems something in your life has you quite dissatisfied. Now i say this because essentially you`re not satisfied sitting on the beach, drinking in Pena Coladas and the view. You actually find time in your busy schedule away from merely enjoying such a marvellous life, to denigrate those who care about Pakistan! My Gawd, the complex runs deep. Now i suggest that while outwardly you feel content or feel you should anyhow, now that most of the goals you set yourself have been achieved in life, inwardly you`re not (satisfied), because obviously something is missing. And its gnawing away at you like anything. Pakistan isin`t biting you in the arse, you decided to bite it. The pieces of the puzzle of your perfect existence don`t quite fit. I reccomend adding a bit of hedonistic flavor to your life. Cheat a little on your live-in-lover. It`ll add so much to the relationship. Perhaps you can even arrange a menage or two! Who knows, life certainly has more to offer than spending your precious time criticizing ungrateful Pakis and THEIR nation. Indulge yourself! Don`t miss out

on all the good things the U.S has to offer, simply cause you got a Paki hangup! Get over it. Time is money. Youth is not meant to be wasted in reflections on dissatisfaction alone, at least if you`re a virile young man. So don`t be foolish, take heed, and find yerself a few more womyn (cure all)! :) Life`s short, so play rough. You`ll be much happier, i promise. It`ll take your mind off your identity crisis/problem ever so much! honest .... I mean i`m sure Billy boy wasn`t too worried about much else while Monica was going down on him! It`ll take your mind off your troubles, that, and a bottle of J.D. I`ll send you my bill. :)

Just read all the previous posts. Well, I agree that Pakis definitely have a habbit of imposing their views onto others and this is not a good thing even perfect strangers feel constrained to tell womyn not to wear T-Shirts. Frankly, whether the girl is wearing a T-Shirt or a bikini should not give the sabzimundi types the right to offer free advice. What Pakistan needs ... blah blah. Ok, Ahmed, so you wanna drink Pena Coladas, hang out on some beach with your `beautiful` fiancee, and and and ... tell us all how rotten Pakistan and Pakistanis are ... hmm, how interesting. Now aren`t you doing just the same thing you accuse other Pakis (oops)I mean people from THAT THERE COUNTRY of! Frankly if it were me on that beach, i`d be doing some bird-watching, not wondering how i could run Paki-land and Paki-people down! Everyone knows the cultural, Social and Economic mess Pakistan is in. SO??? Whats new?

That you don`t wanna be assciated with Pakistan? Are u telling me I had to read your article plus 134 odd replies just to get that? Thats your point! Listen up buddy, blue passport or not, home is where the heart is. Now you didn`t grow up in Pakistan so there is little attachment for the land in you. But i grew up there, and i have good childhood memories of the place, friends i have kept in touch with for life, growing up, a lot of good things. Sure there are things wrong with the place, i`m just about the #1 cynic when it comes to that, but its the place i was born, and spent half my life so, even if i change a passport, it doesn`t mean very much (oh yeah, besides escaping the drug searches:). Tariq did make 1 good point, even if you feel you don`t owe Paki-land anything, think again. Yeah, what was the economic condition of the muslims in British India? Before Pakistan was created muslims were at the bottom of the rung economically. Now look at Pakistan and India and compare the economic condition of muslims in so-called `Secular` India and `Fundamentalist` Pakistan. I can understand your resentment Ahmad at being given all this free, unwanted advice by Pakis on how to live your life, frankly I don`t need it either, but hey pal you can TUNE IT OUT and/or STOP ASSOCIATING WITH THOSE PEOPLE. Why spit out so much TRUTH with such VENOM??? Its not like we aren`t familiar with 99% of it already. So, the problem is not Pakistan (continuing the psycho-analysis) its actually you. You are the one having the problem-having-a-cow-cum-chit-fit. Pakistan seems to be (G-D alone knows how?) limping along, despite all its problems. You just wrote this to tell us VEHEMENTLY that `YOU DON`T WANNA LIVE THERE?` AND YOU DON`T WANNA PAKIS GIVING YOU ADVICE? C`mon, what do you think we are? Dumb? AFTER HAVING had to read all this, I feel entitled to voice my opinion. Kiddo, you need therapy. Best thing for you really because (and I really hate to break it to you like this) N.American society is never gonna accept you 100%, try what you may. So at least TRY to have some pride in the land of your birth, and your parents I assume? (Exchanging a passport doesn`t mean anything, its trying to erase an identity you feel stuck with that you are desperate to do) Guess what, you are stuck with it, with this identity, for life. Yup, its a life sentence, no clemancy. Pakistan; Land of fanatics, bearded fundos, terrorists, drug peddlars, crooks, hypocritical politicians etc. And you are going to be associated with it, like it or not by others including non-Pakis. Now once you can accept that, maybe you`ll stop hating Pakistan and realize that its not Pakistan or Pakis that are making your life miserable, it your own sense of unfulfillment, or wanting to belong. And in the U.S its gonna be very hard. This is a trade off some people make. Most try to preserve their identity though. But you`d like nothing better than to be done with it. People have already pointed out in detail that there is more to America than meets the media`s eye, no need to recount. Just be careful that you dont wake up one day with an empty space in your heart because you are neither East, nor West. Listen, when your kid comes home from Kindergarten and tells you a few things about what other kids called him/her, trust me, youre gonna remember that this kind of thing would never have happened in the land of your birth and that of your mommy and daddy, to your kid. And that is really what matters and what it comes down to when people talk about being a second class citizen in the States.

Someone who knows all about life in both East and West.

Good Luck resolving your identity crisis problem. Maybe all you really need is a hug from someone who truly loves you. Hope u get it soon.

regards,

Re: Unknown # 135

That was an interesting hymn from Rudyard Kipling, the most racist and imperialistic poet in the history of Britain`s imperium. This is the same gentlemen who wrote ``the white man`s burden`` and was a guest of honor at the dinner in 1907 celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Indian Mutiny of 1857, where he ``romantizied`` Britain`s butchery in the aftermath of the events of 1857.

I think, William Butler Yeats expressed the sentiments better, of what we feel about Pakistan, when he penned the following lines to a poem:

``those that I fight I do not hate
and those that I guard, I do not love.
My county is Kiltarten`s Cross
and my countrymen Kiltarten`s poor.....
Nor law nor duty bade me fight,
Nor public men or cheering crowds,
but a lonely impluse of delight
drove to this tumult.....
A waste of breath seems the years behind
and a waste of breath the years to come,
in balance with this life, this death.``

This poem, more than Kipling, captures my feelings about Pakistan.

re: Salman

I agree with you say, but in some cases it becomes necessary to tear something down only to re-assemble it again!

Pink Floyd......lost interest in PF after Roger Waters left! My fav PF album is the Final Cut, because of its imagery. Maybe, in the case of Pakistan, lets hope we do not ever see ``two sunsets in the mirror``. If I want to get sad thinking about Pakistan, nothing compares to Edith Piaff`s morbidity.

Also, Queen`s ``I am going slightly mad`` is a good commentary on Pakistan since the country seems to be always ``one brick short of a full load`` and seems to be running on ``...three wheels only..`` The theme from the movie Highlander, also by Queen, captures the mood in Pakistan well: ``who wants to live for ever?``

Ciao!

RE To ALL:

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or, being lied about, don`t deal in lies,

Or, being hated, don`t give way to hating,

And yet don`t look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;

If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;

If you can meet with triumph and disaster

And treat those two imposters just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you`ve spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,

And stoop and build `em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,

And lose, and start again at your beginnings

And never breath a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: ``Hold on``;

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,

Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute

With sixty seconds` worth of distance run -

Yours is the Earth and everything that`s in it,

And - which is more - you`ll be a Man my son!

re:Ferozk #128

I totally agree with what u say. Criticism is very important becuase it shows often those aspects which one has ignored but there is a difference between healthy criticism and plain insult and degrading remarks, malignantly spitting venom .....and patriotism.....it comes when one feels it..not when one completely negates that identity...for his/her own self it is doesnt matter coz that is a personal choice,but when that particular person starts insulting those who are of that identity....i think there is a problem....aahemd doesnt accept pakistanis and pakistan...so why he is bent upon cussing all those who wanna rebuild pakistan...even if we have to start from scratch and ashes......

i know what the problems are...and we need to address them and eradicate them...that is what SHOULD be done.....

i feel u should read my replies and sharayar and all others...we all are for making Pakistan inshallah and not breaking it any more!!!!

and inshallah we will do that......

pink floyd: :)

well, i think we can``crawl out of the thin ice`` only if we stand like a ``wall`` and even though there are lots of ``pigs on the wings`` and ``dogs of war`` around and even though we are ``marooned``....still the ``division bell`` has tolled and ......yes, there are many ``lunatics``..they are on grass and in ``halls`` as well!!!!!

we can MAKE pakistan, what we dream it to be.....that would be a ``great gid in the sky`` and a ``GREAY DAY FOR FREEDOM``!!!:)

Re: Everyone

I think a lot has been said about the issue and I think we all need to get beyond personal insults and maybe this is a perfect opportunity for a lot of us to start something here.

I think there are many people who care about the situation back home and at least want to try to improve even a tiny bit whereas there are some who just want to keep on insulting people on the forum.

I think this is a perfect opportunity for us to bring something good out of this. If anyone who is interested, e-mail me at fataquie@hotmail.com

I have been thinking about something that we can contribute with but I don`t want to be laughed at by the whole forum.

And Mr. Ahmed, I`d like to apologize to you for getting carried away and saying words that I really did not mean. One of my teachers during my Capstone class told us that never e-mail or never say anything when you are angry because then only the things that really don`t do any good come out from your mind. But I do have a request or a suggestion, you have every right to not to like Pakistan, but please don`t insult the whole nation based on the perspective that you got by meeting a handful of Pakistanis. Again, no hard feelings.

Salam to all (and to aziz786, I am not a kathiawari and even if I were, I don`t see anything wrong with it). And please let`s all of us try do something here.

good lord..

what the hell has happened to chowk? where are all these zameendar, wadeeray tactics springing up from?

a tangent ( since i love them so very much and all the insults back and forth are frankly boring)..an article from allan bloom..its about the american mind (circa 1985) and it talks of how in america, students are taught about all cultures, they are sent into other cutlures for answers..and everyone is right. they are not taught about the american culture ( what is the american culture but a mix of others?) they will back down from an argument and agree to disagree...bloom is not for this. he feels that certain inalineable, natural rights/law should govern universally. he is against this relativism that abounds in america. other cultures, he points out, do not think everyone is right..only they are right. end of story.

my point, and i do have one...look at this discussion..i mean on a purely objective level, those who seem to have been educated in paksitan are not willing to listen to any criticism..scrolling through the responses i see things like, ``anyone who says anyhting bad about pakistan is wajb-ul-qatl`` or that real men defend pakistan and all its (im)perfections...they are not willing to hear anything bad about so beloved a country.

those educated in america or those who are more open to the idea of difference take a middle ground.

im not saying who is right and who is wrong ( a perfect prototype of american education gone wrong according to Bloom but hell, this is the way i was brought up...and i cannot help feeling that he doesnt take biculturalism to its full extent into the mix)...im just adding my two cents to the hornets nest...

im going to duck and ignore any insults hurled at me, so try to refrain..

z. ``innocent bystander`` rizvi

Re: Unknown

Let`s see... If I can answer your question regarding fataqie`s home town... He mentioned ``Biradri``, ``Family business``, and ``Khandan``. Hmmm... I think he is from Karachi`s Kathiawaar.

.....so you mean ``allah is not pakistani?``

bummer!

Re: Salman_Gorsi # 118 & Saaf-go # 119

Saaf, no I am not interested in letting the filth rot in Pakistan, but I am for an honest discussion of Pakistan`s problems. There is no question of belitting one`s sense of civic patriotism, as the article was mistakenly thought to assume. Patriotism and a love for one`s country is more a state of mind and it can not, and should not, be measured against another person`s sense of patriotism.

We, Pakistanis, need to just hang our dirty laundary in the open and see what happens. The first step towards curing what ails Pakistan is to admit it has problems. It is like going to a doctor`s office for treatment, but not telling him/her where the pain is. If s/he does not know what is the problem, how will s/he treat you! Presently, whether it is right or wrong, most Pakistanis are confusing and mis-identifying their sense of patriotism by denying that Pakistan has serious problems. The only way, which we as a people will solve our problems is by admitting to ourselves that we have a problem.

We better do this real quick before it kills us. Remember, a tumor starts out with symptoms of a headache, but if it is thought just to a headache and no preventive care is taken, it will grow and finally start effecting your overall health to the point of killing you!

Salman, I have heard about Pink Floyd and this is way we will all end up singing on the dark side of the moon! Instead of picking the ``The Wall`` as metaphor for Pakistan, I wish you had picked the song: ``the lunatic is on the grass...`` to describe the situation in Pakistan :)

Fatique, you sound like a great person...you are right people do need to be educated...if you are studying hard thats great, if you are educating your family that is even better. If you have a plan to bette Pakistan please share it with me. For myself, and a host of other Pakistani`s are part of a group that raises funds to spur education in Pakistan.