Loyal to Pakistan? Why?

Mr Ahmed your comments in ur reply # 44 , especially the last lines, are highly objectionable. The words you chose like ``pathetic``, ``filth`` etc, to describe Pakistan show the mind of not a mature person, but an arrogant, spoilt brat!!!!

In ur article you mention that you consider Pakistan as a source of shame for you. If you are not acknowledging Pakistan as ur country, why should you feel ashamed of it. The fact of the matter is that whether you consider Pakistan your country or not is irrelevant. By being born there you will always have this Pakistani Link. And sooner or later you will turn back to ur roots. If not you then your children certainly will. Look at the Afro Americans . They are trying to rediscover their cultural heritage. A couple of centuries ago they were forced to abandon their culture!. Consider yourself lucky. America today is the bastion of freedom! You have the choice of living an American life without compromising your values. And I know a lot of Americans and Britishers who have kept their morals and values and yet are accepeted by the society. Infact they are well respected.

Mr Ahmed dont blame the country and the ordinary Pakistanis! Blame the people who have been ruling Pakistan!

and after reading my truncated and censored reply...I think the ppl at chowk should also listen to harsh criticim in response to harsh criticism......

but now I see a whole lot of ``Pakistani`` Americans jumping in and showing herd behavior....

I m anxiously waiting for their blah blah....

....Although the debate is gradually taking a dichotomous course but yet I feel the pro-article replies are forgetting one thing....that they will remain brown and remain Pakistanis no matte how vehemently they oppose and deny their roots..just as like charges repel and opposiet attract in scisntific terms....and aahemd !u r not a reptile who can just do away with his old skin....no matter how much deft and articulate you are at socializing..even if you become President of the United States...you`ll be refferd to as an Asian American....if you wanna prove me wrong...go ahead ...do it and we will wholeheartedly agree to what ever u say..infcat blindly agree to all the crap.........

and the desparation and innate stupidity which is so obvious in your reply #44 speaks a lot about your understanding and reasoning....

and it`s not a matter of pity or something....you can dance on some beach with pretty girls all around..we dont care and we dont need ur smart comments.....

enjoy your life but please dont try your hand at writing....it`s not what everubody can do and reading your material and replies..one thing becomes obvious as the sun...and that is one really need a brain to think....which either u don`t have or is preoccupied with...no! u dont have a brain....!!!!!

are they on sale over there....plz get one too!

My impression when I read this article was that the author was not bashing Pakistan as much as

he was annoyed with the Pakistani immigrants who

come to the US and then go on and on about

how Americans are so bad and how life in Pakistan is so great.

This is something I can relate to, having lived

in Canada for more than 25 years, my family has gotten used to simply ignoring any criticisms that

new immigrants from Pakistan about life in Canada. A great number come in and start preaching in the first month of thier arrival about how awful the education system is here for their children. That the ``mohol`` is so bad. Real Islam is only taught in Pakistan or the Middle East. Look how horrible the Urdu is of children who grew up here etc. etc.

It gets downright funny when they start claiming that the hospitals and roads are better in Pakistan than in Canada.

Anyway, rather than arguing with them, we simply tell them that we`ve been here a lot longer than they have and that their ideas will change. Of course they vehemently oppose and yet sure enough

after living for 5 years here, their attitudes start changing immensely and the criticisms diminish. I have met very few families who`ve been here 20 years or more that have any harsh criticisms of life or people in North America. These people have also accepted their decision to move here, and that their children won`t be like their nieces and nephews growing up in Pakistan.

So my advice to you Ahsan is to just live your

life the way you choose to and just ignore the comments that people make about your Un-Pakistaniness. don`t waste your time boiling your blood over it.

re: wasiqnawaz

While I agree that 2nd or 3rd generation Pakistani-Americans won`t completly ``blend`` into

American society, I don`t think they will be viewed as ``pakistanis``. They`ll just be viewed as

``brown``. You see the thing is to most White Americans there isn`t a whole lot of difference between a Pakistan and Indian (or for that matter Bengalis or Sri Lankans etc). From a distance we all look ``brown`` to them.

Look at the ``Latinos`` - they come from a variety of countries: Mexico, Puerto Rico, Brazil, Central America etc. Yet they all fall under the Latin American label now.

Same thing happens with the characterization of ``Arab`` or ``Asian`` (i.e the chinese, japanese korean,vietnemese etc)

The reason they will still stick out despite the cultural assimilation is because they are visible minorities. And people from certain geographic areas have certain physical features in common hence the asian, arab, East Indian, Latino designations.

Regards,

Fozia

I agree ...Pakistan is messed up!

Most of what this guy has said is absolutely true. It`s an absolute shame whats going on in Pakistan...but that doesnt mean that we have to change our identity because of some ills of our country. Maybe we should try to work on and improve these bad qualities instead of just giving up on them and turning against our nations. Both America and Pakistan have their bad aspects. They`re both on two extremes. Whose to say either of them are good. I`m a Pakistani American and love both my countries equally. Lets just try and live in moderation shall we...

Thanks, Jazakullah.

........after reading reply #44, I think no more should be said...!!!

may his soul rest in peace...

o yeah ! in case i forget.....I m lol!!!!

in simple words, i feel sorry for the author and his family.

To a Typical Self Hating Pakistani named named Ahsan Ahmed (#44):

Whats the purpose of saying things like the ``filth that is Pakistan`` or ``most Pakis have no social skills.`` Why so enthusiastically abase yourself in public, bring us all down to your very low servile self, and hope that we see ourselves in the mirror?

I`ve met a few like yourself who hope to get ahead or attract attention by putting down their own kind, people like that cause us all much pain.

Wasiq Nawaz

Ahmad: There are many other coutries in the world that are going through crises. Indonesia - ranks no. 1 in corruption and a political tumoil, Brazil - just going through one of the worst economic crises, Russia - an economical and poltical mess, ... and the list goes on. Why did you not write about their problems and criticize their people. Every nation has to face ups and downs and especially a country like Pakistan which is a young nation where democracy and institutions have to mature. Since you have never lived in Pakistan you can not comprehend the feelings and attachment of an average Pakistani to its homeland. It is hard to imagine that a person could be so judgemental about a place he has never lived in. I live in New York - there is a China town here where most of the chinese live and then there is little italy where people with italian descent reside, Jackson Heights is not far away which is mostly indian - So why is it wrong when Pakistanis mingle amongst themselves. I have friends from all over the world and I really cherish that. Then there is a group of my Pakistani friends and they bring back the memories of my lovely childhood in Pakistan. Cricket, Randezvous in liberty market, a high school that can easilly qualify for an army camp, and so much more. A smile come on my face when I write about it. Pakistan has so many problems - literacy rate, corruption, health standards ... but so does every developing country in the world. I do not deny it and I feel bad about it but does that mean I should start criticizing it? No, I should try to fix it. Have you read about American History - Not long ago they had slavery and no voting rights for women. It took hundreds of years for them to come where they are now. Pakistan`s history is just fifty years old. I am not looking for excuses for us but am only saying that one should think positively and do something instead of blaming the country.

You really need to have more self esteem.

``At least here, you don`t get shot cuz you`re a shia or a democrat. In pakistan, you get killed for your political affiliation, you get killed for your religion, you get killed cuz you looked at someone cross eyed. The worst act of terrorism on US soil was Oklahoma city where less than 200 ppl died. In pakistan, how many ppl die everyday from terrorist acts?``

Have you ever heard of Sacco and Vanzetti? The Rosenbergs? Mumia Abu Jamal? Ever heard of what happened to the Japenese in world war II? Ever heard of the Ludlow massacre? Do you know any thing about the state sponsored terrorism conducted by this great country? How many times they brought on federal troops to kill striking workers? How many people they have killed because they were suspected to be anti-capatilist. Do you know the name of the man who was shot 41 times by New York police because he was black? If not, go read a little bit instead of writing such crappy articles. Which world are you living in...the reality on the ground is not as good as the media would have you believe! And please, dont always equate criticism of this country with praise for Pakistan...someone can be trying to make a little bit more subtle argument than that but you are probably not capable of understanding that subtlety, as is evident from your article and responses.

Well. I sort of agree with what Shandana wrote a while back. This is from the heart, however misguided. I`m going to recap some of the feelings on this board. You never lived in Pakistan, but grew up in the Middle East and the US. I don`t think you are Pakistani. I`m of American and Pakistani descent, and lived most of my life in Pakistan. Living in the States and associating with the expatriat Pakistanis has shown me that it takes more than just a Pakistani passport and an ability to speak Urdu like a native. I`d give Studebakers opinions more weight because he sees Pakistan through more objective eyes. You are just another Jaded American trying to deny what you see going on in the US.

Sorry. Write about something you are familiar with.

Ahsan I agree with you on almost all what you have said in this article. Just one thing I like to mention:

Without Pakistan, as a Muslim ,you had a little chance to make it out of India. You still might have been living in India under a deplorable condition as almost all the Indian Muslims are living in the existing India.

To prove my point just go to any US university and find out your self how many students who come from India are Muslims? For what I have checked they are numbered less then 1 percent of total numbers of student that come from India.

Asfand Yar Siddiqui

Sacramento CA

Some how I feal u r right.. I think a nation is not built by geographical locations but with ideas, culture and norms. If you feel u r different then its not a fault. its just that ur ideas are different.

As far as people are concerned... well.. I have been in USA since I was 2 years old. I have also met good people and bad ones. I feel that a Pakistani family have more cultural norms and respect than any other average american family. there are good people in pakistan too. people who care. people who understand ur feeling and who make u feel proud of ur country.

Adnan Lakhani

Your piece can be summed up as follows: ``I hate myself and nobody should be allowed to stop me--its my choice.`` ``I`m not like you because I haven`t lived in Pakistan.`` I say ``go ahead,`` but please don`t pull the rest of us down with you. Being a Pakistani is not a matter of choice as you seem to think. You will always be looked at as a Pakistani, like it or not, and given that basic fact of life you have a simple choice: to hate yourself or to love your true self. Inventing a false alternative is not an option.

Wasiq Nawaz

It seems to me that Pakis cannot look past the critcism. So many of you have asked me why I have written this article. So many of you have asked me why I bother to criticize pakistan if I hate it. Well, if you read the article, you know the parts where I`m NOT bashing pakistan, you will notice that the reason for writing about pakistan is very obvious. If you pakis stop telling me how to feel about pakistan, i wouldn`t care either way, but since you pakis feel it your duty to force your beliefs upon every one else, I wrote the article to tell you pakis to back off and mind your own business. Someone here at chowk wrote an article where she was wearing a T-shirt and some old paki guy told her ``Kameez pehna karo``, that`s the kind of crap i`m talking about. You pakis think that you should tell everybody what they should do, what they should wear, how they should feel and what they should say. This article was in response to all the low life pakis who have tried to tell me what to do.

And get off your high horses, you guys don`t give a damn about your country, you only get defensive when someone criticizes it. And someone also pointed out all the crap going on in America. Well, if you read the entire article, I DID say that America is not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than Pakistan.

At least here, you don`t get shot cuz you`re a shia or a democrat. In pakistan, you get killed for your political affiliation, you get killed for your religion, you get killed cuz you looked at someone cross eyed. The worst act of terrorism on US soil was Oklahoma city where less than 200 ppl died. In pakistan, how many ppl die everyday from terrorist acts?

So, don`t deny it, whether I say it or not, pakistan is very screwed up and if you`re so concerned about it, do something about it, don`t just sit on your asses and attack someone who dares to say what your country is really like.

Also, some of you have said that I will never be an american, and i`ll always be a second class citizen. Well, I`d rather be a second class citizen here than a first class citizen of pakistan, i`d rather enjoy life and peace and comfort and safety, I don`t particularly care for living in fear constantly. And what makes you think I will never fit in, just cuz the average paki can`t BE an american doesn`t mean that I can`t, most of you pakis have no social skills, therefore can`t adapt to another culture, speak for yourselves and your illiterate fellow country men.

I pity all of you. You have this blind faith. Open your eyes, there are better places in the world. I don`t understand your eagerness to build a country that is beyond help and in the process destroy your lives. Yes, I am selfish, I`d rather have a good life and no country rather than a crappy life with a crappy country.

Suit yourselves, enjoy your pathetic little nation, and ruin your lives. I`ll be sipping Pina coloadas on a beautiful beach somewhere while you guys rot in the filth that is pakistan.

Most people will probably agree that there is some truth to the faults with Pakistan pointed out in the artice. However, mostly, the outraged responses to the article are not coming from a patriotic place, that we are incapable of seeing our country being criticised, but from the superficial and almost racist analysis of Pakistan in the article. The article seems to criticise the Pakistan that one sees in the New York times or the author`s local news station. The outrage is at the lack of any hint of a deep understanding of the social situation both in Pakistan or for that matter, in the author`s great land of opportunities. When an article has statements like an average american is better than the average pakistani, it may get a passing grade as a high school essay but cannot go much beyond that. The author seems to be dealing with the negative responses by having the attitude that look at these patriots...they just talk when someone attacks their country...they cant take any criticism. But he probably has not read most of the articles on this very site which criticise various aspects of Pakistani society in a much more meaningful and intelligent way than this juvenile piece of crap. One more thing...why is the author making the assumption that people responding to his masterpiece are not doing anything to improve the situation in Pakistan? Does it fit the stereotype he has of Pakistanis in general or the people on Chowk in particular?