Falsehoods Galore

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O.K. now that we have got Pakistan and we are sooooo ashamed of it,what do we do with it?

I am afraid it doesn`t fit my dust bin and i CAN`T SEE IT going into India`s hands....maybe we can throw it away into the Indian Ocean..since everything Indian is sooooo great....atleast it would sink into something having an Indian connotation.....or maybe we can sell it and give all the cash to u....

and yes,I dont mind being opressed by whatever irks u....but I would rather die than be ruled over by anybody else...yes BJP I mean!!!

I heard someone was selling freedom!!!

Who said, give me liberty or give me death. If only you had been born in a muslim family in INDIA, would you have known what ``freedom``, ``pakistan`` and ``jinnah`` are.

Nice article as far as compilation of facts in Pakistan history is concerned. But I take STRONG exception to theories put forth by the author in analyzing these facts. Its an article written in rage, which is surprising as normally at chowk I find articles written with an analytical mind. Author has backed up the facts with absurd theories. I won` comment on all of them, but some of them are pretty absurd. For example, during Pakistan Movement, the worst opposition that the movement faced was not from Congress or British, but from the Muslim Clergy of Sub Continent so much so that fatwas and titles like Kaafir-e-Azam were given to Quaid. Prominent leaders like Maulana Madoodi were pretty vocal against the idea of Pakistan. All prominent Islamic schools of that time were against the idea of Pakistan. In short Quaid was not the fall guy, he did it all on his own with out any help from the clergy. Feudals in Punjab did supporte him. Yes for the reason given by author, i.e. to prevent their land holdings from the rule of Congress. I feel the same reason governed their aversion towards rule by East Pakistanis to prevent any land dissolution, ultimately resulting in separation of the country. Arguing whether India or Pakistan started arms race in Sub continent is absurd with out considering the global context. Fact is that India initiated it for concerns from China and Pakistan followed suit. It is useless if we indulge in this debate and start blaming each other. It was an eventuality, which was to happen in the world as a result of non-eradication of nuclear weapons by the super powers. But if author does wish to indulge in it and ascertain as to who initiated the race with in South Asia, than I guess the answer is pretty obvious.

Re: rbian Reply #: 3

`` Who said, give me liberty or give me death. If only you had been born in a muslim family in INDIA, would you have known what ``freedom``, ``pakistan`` and ``jinnah`` are.``

I quite agree with you.

Let us point out some of the terrible options facing Ms. Khan were she born in a muslim family in India.

Perhaps then Ms. Khan may have become a Space Scientist like Abdul Kalam, father of the Indian Space and Missile program or perhaps a world famous music director like A.R. Rehman or perhaps she may have captained the Indian Cricket team (female) like Muhammed Azharuddin or perhaps she may have become a honoured sitar virtuosso like Amjad Ali Khan or a shehnai virtuosso like Bismilla Khan or a tabla virtuosso like Zakir Hussain or perhaps she could have become a famous movie star like Nargis, MadhuBala, ShahRukh or Salmaan or she may have enchanted millions with her voice, like a Muhammed Rafi.

She may have joined the military and earned a pakistani bullet like my junior school-mate Cpt. Hanifuddin.

She may have started a computer company like WIPRO and become the richest Indian in the world like (I forget his name),by sheer hard work.

Why, she may even have become the president of India like Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed.

Why all this when she can be a burqa-clad housewife in a Talibanic society.

On the verge of 52 years since Independence. And in which direction has Pakistan gone but South. This is not the Pakistan envisioned by its founding parents. And I see little hope when so many of the educated, wordly Pakistanis (the potential saviors) flock to the West abandoning Pakistan because they see little hope.

A well-written, passionate, and sobering article. Good work, Fauziya. A bittersweet congratulations.

-!Kamran!-

``The national political leadership has

embarked on a path to further Islamize the country by the imposition of the Sharia -- a

fact that is not liked by a majority of the population``

Correction: not liked by the majority of the westernized social upper-class who like to disparage their surroundings and fellow lower-class (caste?) country-men, and like to pander to western perceptions of the world. Most Pakistani`s simply think it`s odd: how do you Islamize the Islamic republic? People smell a rat...

``Pakistan`s Islamic constituency has now begun to sponsor more than just the ``jihad`` in Kashmir. It has been found to have close links with worldwide terrorist organizations that are united in their hatred of free societies``

What nonsense. The so-called ``free-societies`` are the ones that are avidly and rabidly fearful and hateful towards even the most mild Islamist movement. Islamist movements are invariably non-expansionist and involve themselves with foreign govenrments only when they perceive interference from them. Thus, America is hated because of it`s support for Israel, Britain hated because it`s credited with dismembering the muslim world, etc. Not because there`s this overwhealming desire to conquer the U.K. or America.

For the most part, the hatred is well justified, and hence shared by many Pakistani`s, even the more modereate and yes, even some secular ones.

And yes, the terrorism is justified too, because it works and because the west is not above using the very same tactics either covertly or under the guise of military operations.

I`m no fan of such movements, but if you`re gonna try and write on this issue at least be fair and don`t take such a one-sided view.

``The, the military and the clergy of Pakistan are busy sharpening

their swords, behind the scenes, for the final assault on the United States, Western

Europe and India -- all demonstrably free societies. ``

What the heck are you talking about? This sounds like the paranoid ramblings of a lunatic. You may as well be yelling ``the martians are comming!``.

As I`ve said, the hatred of everything western is due to the Western tradition of medelling in forigen affairs for their own interests. As a result, the regional polity created is not one favourable to the populous that is affected by Western policy. As a result, you have backlash.

However, the goals of the militants in Kashmir is fairly a popular one.

On the whole, the notion of Kashmiri independence or union with Pakistan (more so the former than the latter is a popular one in occupied Kashmir (i.e. Kashmir in it`s entirty). The conflict needs a political solution, and quite frankly playing the Islamic boogy man clause is a bit childesh. It may appease Western pseudo-intellects, but on the whole your analysis leaves much to be desired.

The fact of the matter is, the Kashmiri conflict is real. It`s not a creation of Pakistan`s ISI.

The conlfict needs a resolution, and India can easily resolve the conlfict by holding ``free`` elections. After all, you yourself have described India as a ``deomstrably free`` society, so is it asking too much for it to behave like one?

If India behaved like Canada in her problems with Quebec, then Pakistan would have the wrath of the international community on it for trying to make a big issue out of something that could be resolved internally. However, India`s brain-dead policy is making things difficult for the people of Kashmir. For the most part, Pakistan is on the moral high ground over this particular issue.

Re : rbian

`` If only you had been born in a muslim family in INDIA, would you have known what ``freedom``, ``pakistan`` and ``jinnah`` are. ``

-- I am a Muslim born in a ``muslim family in INDIA``. I know what is freedom. I also know what is Pakistan and i have a fair idea of jinnah. Both have not impressed me much. Earlier i have listed so many muslim achievements in India. The latest...the world`s richest Indian is also a Muslim ``Azim Premji`` and he achieved all this by himself. Just a pointer that a Muslim in India probably can do better than a Muslim in Pakistan. We are lucky. We enjoy being Muslims within a secular democratic setup and can keep the fundamentalists from our religion at bay.

Iconoclast

Hear, hear Iconoclast. As an Indian Muslim myself, I cannot think of myself without the ``Indian.`` My Indianness is intrinsically linked to me, and no other country (despite its many and well documented problems) could have given me so much as the country of my birth. Just had to say that I think.

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you might be right or wrong, but i would rather die, than to live in india or be some other national other than pakistani.

have fun

Re : VY

I`l be with you .. Pakistan is the best .. A great opinion from you after all these ABCD`s ..

A great article, it will go well with this beauty from a pak newspaper.

Why Nawaz-Clinton meeting was held in haste

By Azim M Mian

NEW YORK: The haste in which Nawaz-Clinton meeting took place in Washington, is being explained by some US sources that India had planned a major military offensive against diplomatically ``isolated`` Pakistan.

According to these credible sources, the US warned India to desist from any such offensive and allow 72 hours to the US to work out any solution to the problem.

The US had also warned India that if any such Indian offensive is launched against Pakistan, the US will take punitive measures against India since Pakistan is considered as an old ally of the United States.

The US Administration at the highest level had also asked India to inform Washington at least 48 hours if and when India plans any such attack, these sources insist.

This situation is the reason the US President spent three hours of his time on a national holiday and personally supervised the drafting of 18-line ``Pak-US statement`` on July 4, these sources say. ``This joint

statement`` has averted the full-scale war between India and Pakistan, the US sources claimed. Clinton-Nawaz meeting was set up by those Pakistani and American friends, who had the privileged information about the Indian plans to attack Pakistan and wanted to avert it at any cost, they said.

The statement is a mixed bag of carrots and sticks. Pakistan has averted the war, after India has spent billions of its resources on mobilisation and deployment of its army on the borders. But Pakistan has also taken the responsibility of withdrawal of Mujahideen from Kargil and Drass. Now this is a commitment to the US made by Pakistan, it will have to

happen, while the Nawaz government will have to bear its brunt at the domestic front.

When a US official was asked about the US understanding of the wordings of the statement concerning the Line of Control as per the Simla Agreement, he agreed that the statement is clearly recognising the fact that any alteration of the Line of Control in the post-Simla period is not recognised. India has occupied certain areas by altering LoC through the use of military force after the Simla Agreement was signed.

re:remax & vy

Count me in too.....!!!!

Long live Pakistan!

And down with all those who just know how to degrade it and try to deny it!

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