Kargil Issue

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

India is a prison of nations. Sikhs not excluded.

Omar

re: OMAR1974

Sikh soldiers that make up 25 % of the Indian army (out of a 2% population) deserting and joining the PAKISTANI ARMY !!!!

Maybe you could explain why the PAKISTANI ARMY uses SIKHS AS STRAWMEN in combat drills !!!

Read up on some history, read newspapers, read anything .......WOW !! how do people get so far from reality. And I wonder how many people like you are in this world.

Raj karega Khalsa.

re: Omar1974

This just caught my eye ``May the Granth be with you``. You crack me up.

DO you know anything about Sikhism ?
DON`T speak about faiths you know nothing about. Your analysis is absurd given the HISTORY of the Khalsa panth (which you strangely try to refer to in your post). I don`t want to get into a Sikh/Muslim mud slinging contest and therefore only urge you to read up on the history of the Khalsa panth. Unless, of course, you have no regard for anything but your own myopic, distorted hate mongering view on religion.

Yes, Omar Raj karega Khalsa......and that completely contradicts what you say. FIgure that one out for starters....

OMAR1974

Like I said before, READ up on the issue. You don`t know what you are talking about. What is a letter here and there from expat Sikhs ? Is it more representative of SIkhs voting for other Sikhs in the Akali Dal running Punjab today. DUH !!!!!!
DO you know how Punjab runs today and how the Khalsa tercentenary went off in India ? Do you know how the state govt has been resolving a number of its issues with the Central govt ? DO you know how the Khalsa politics have evolved since and continue to evolve ? (read up on it and YOU will get serious heatburn)

You have never known democracy and freedom of speech and how a free press helps all that. You have no tolerance for a difference of opinions. What you are pointing to is an example of the above. It is not indicative of ANY majority opinion (even amongst expat Sikhs).....surely you realize this.

regards

So, Rishi, in essence by ignoring what the Khalistani movement`s leader alleges, you attack my motives instead! That is really something. Not the way to conduct a debate at allm, in fact you sidestepped the issue. By not disputing what the Sikh doctor says in his open letter, you are admitting the allegations therein as facts.

Well Amandeep don`t worry, when Paki forces enter Indian Punjab i`m sure we`ll waltz in with the Khalistani group supporting us, waving the Khalistani flag over what is known today as Indian Punjab. Any territory we occupy shall be given diplomatic recognition as the Republic of Khalistan. I`m sure Indian Sikh soldiers will want to fight to free Indian Punjab from Hindu dominion. Do you want to live as Hindu slaves or as free men with your own country? Its time the Sikhs got their own homeland. Look around the world, everyone else is laying claim to their own land, even Kosovars, many of whom only arrived about 50 years ago (Liberal Yugoslav immigration policies under Tito allowed significant Albanian immigration into Kosovo). The Sikhs have a 400 year old claim to Punjab. At least a large portion of Indian Punjab should be set aside for a Sikh homeland. Pakistan will help make this a reality soon. I anticipate that once we get started most Sikhs in the Indian army will desert and mutiny and join the movement to free Khalistan. All they need is to be able to believe that Khalistan truly can be created. Don`t give up hope Amandeep, it can be free. Now, when you grow up join the Khalistan movement, and be sure and do something. If you bomb the Indian embassy in London, all the world`s attention will suddenly be directed to the fact that there is a demand for a free Khalistan. It will do wonders for the cause. Strike back at the country that stormed the Golden Temple, that killed 3,000 Sikhs in the communal riots that followed Indira Gandhi`s death, that desercrated the Granth Sahib! You, Amndeep will be the hero of the Sikh people. Grandmothers will tell the stories of your heroic deeds to liberate Khalistan to their grandchildren. You have the oppotunity to become a folk hero of the Sikh people forever. Don`t miss the boat. Help in the liberation of Khalistan. Make it your mission in life, so you and the rest of the Sikhs can live free with their turbans held up high, as free men, instead of as slaves of the Hindu polity known as Bharat today.

Live free or die Amandeep! Long live Khalistan!



Good Luck Amandeep!

May the Granth be with you! :)

Reply in reference to #: 18

if any Sikhs are reading this, let me remind them that the author of reply # 18 , in one of the interacts in Chowk had publicly stated that it would give him the most pleasure to personally lob of the head of a SIKH.

Talk about perverted hypocrisy.

Rishi

WASHINGTON, DC, USA - June 16, 1999 (Council of Khalistan):

OPEN LETTER TO THE SIKH SOLDIERS AND OFFICERS

Stop ``Dying Like Dogs`` for the Indian Oppressors Will You Be a Martyr or a Mercenary? Join the Freedom Movement to Liberate Khalistan

Khalsa Ji:

The Indian attack on the Kashmiri freedom fighters at Kargil again shows the reality of Hindutva. You see the death of your fellow Sikhs on a daily basis. About 60 percent of the casualties are Sikhs. When India wants to suppress a freedom movement, they send other minorities to do the dirty work, pitting minorities against each other. Hindustan will just use you and discard you. Do not let yourself be a mercenary for this divide-and-rule strategy by the Indian tyrants.

India is losing this war. Casualties are mounting. An Indian colonel admitted that the troops are ``dying like dogs.`` A corporal is quoted as saying, ``Even in war we don`t have such senseless casualties.`` All these deaths are very tragic, but it is especially sad when Sikh soldiers give their lives for the oppressor. If a Sikh soldier must die, at least die for the Khalsa Panth. If you die for the Khalsa Panth, you will be a martyr. If you die for India, you are just a mercenary.

What are you dying for? Are you willing to die for a country that has murdered over 250,000 of our Sikh brothers and sisters since 1984? Are you willing to die for a country that desecrated the Golden Temple, shot bullet holes through the Guru Granth Sahib? Are you willing to die for a country that practices a policy of mass cremations against our Sikh brothers and sisters, a policy the Indian Supreme Court called ``worse than a genocide``?

If you are dying anyway, come home and die for our homeland like the martyrs who were murdered in the Golden Temple attack. It is better to promote the freedom and glory of the Khalsa Panth than to promote Hindutva and the ``territorial integrity`` of India. When human rights are being violated on such a massive scale, ``territorial integrity`` is not an issue.

The political creed of India is ``Hindu, Hindi, Hindutva, Hindu Rashtra.`` As the former Speaker of the Lok Sabha, Balram Jakhar, said, ``If we have to kill a million Sikhs to preserve our territorial integrity, so be it.`` When India wants to protect its artificial borders, it is Sikhs who get killed. When we seek freedom, it is Sikhs who get killed. How can Sikhs put their lives on the line for a country like that?

You are all aware of the plight of Sikhs back home in Punjab. The Indian government has bribed Sikh policemen with cash and promotions to murder their Sikh brothers and sisters. The U.S. State Department reported that between 1992 and 1994 the Indian government paid over 41,000 cash bounties to policemen for killing Sikhs. One policeman collected a bounty for murdering a three-year-old boy. Why should Sikhs give their lives for that?

Are you aware that in 37 border villages back in Punjab, the people have evacuated because they are afraid that this war on the Kashmiri freedom fighters will expand to Punjab? As the people of Kosovo fled from their homes in fear of the Serbian government`s brutality, the people of Punjab, Khalistan -your family, friends, and neighbors - are fleeing their homes in fear of the brutal Indian government. There has been a new deployment of troops to Punjab, raising fears that India will launch an attack on Pakistan from the Sialkot sector. If that happens, more Sikhs will lose their lives.

Every day in Ardas, Sikhs pray ``Raj Kare Ga Khalsa,`` the Khalsa shall rule. Our heritage is ``Khalsa Bagi Yan Badshah,`` the Khalsa rules or it is in rebellion. Our Gurus teach us to oppose tyranny wherever it rears its ugly head. How can Sikhs say that and then go fight for a country that denies our Sikh brothers and sisters the most basic human rights?

India`s political situation is unstable and it is losing this bloody war. In desperation, it has resorted to using chemical weapons. This is a shame on India. It shows the Indian government`s complete disregard for the lives of Sikhs, Muslims, and other minorities. However, the instability provides an opportunity to liberate Khalistan.

Recently, a group of Sikhs living in Pakistan called for a common front with our Kashmiri brothers to liberate both Khalistan and Kashmir. They said that now is the ideal time for such an effort. They are right. Let us make common cause with the Kashmiri freedom fighters and liberate our countries together.

Sikhs remember their martyrs and we also remember our enemies. Sikhs ended the regime of the tyrant Indira Gandhi. A brave Sikh named Delawar Singh ended the tyranny of Beant Singh. Would you rather be remembered as a brave Sikh martyr like Delawar Singh or as a traitor like K.P.S. Gill?

I call on Sikhs in the Indian armed forces, whether officers or soldiers, to stop shooting at the Kashmiri freedom fighters and join the Sikh freedom movement. Stop ``dying like dogs`` for the theocratic Indian state. These Kashmiri freedom fighters have the same as the goal of the Sikh Nation: to live in freedom, peace, prosperity, and dignity.

Now is the time to join the Sikh freedom movement and liberate Khalistan. You are trained soldiers. The Khalsa Panth needs your services. You will be remembered as the liberators of Khalistan. Remember Gen. Shabeg Singh who gave his life defending the sanctity of Darbar Sahib and the honor of the Sikh Nation. We must free Khalistan. Nations don`t survive without political power. This is the opportune time for us. We must not let this opportunity pass.

Panth Da Sewadar,



Dr. Gurmit Singh Aulakh President Council of Khalistan Washington, DC, U.S.A.

re: OMAR1974

Now OMAR1974 comes to teach sikhi to the sikhs. You are way off man. Start by learning where when and how the Khalsa panth was formed. And how vital its message is to ALL Indians today.

Like everybody else the expat Sikhs too are welcome to their opinions. But before pretending to know anything about the Punjab crisis, it behooves you to read up on the issues. Read about who were the figures involved in defusing the whole situation and restoring the rule of democracy (I dont think you know what that means). Some key words are KPS Gill and Operation Black Thunder. Also please read up on what exactly the problem was about (Akali Dal vs Congress, Central govt megalomaniac Indira vs state govt of Punjab). Your flights of fancy, though somewhat harmless, are getting ridiculous. Specially with those religion tinted glasses you see the world with ! Take those off and VOILA, you will see everything is not a religious conflict.

In short, READ UP. Agar LIE-yer ban na hai to tuanu thodi padayi karnee padegi.

Let me hazard a few guesses about you Amandeep. You`re a Punjabi Sikh. You even sympathize with Khalistani seperatists, hence you can see to a certain extent the injustice of the Indian occupation of Kashmir, but being about 14, you have not yet learned critical reading skills which would allow you to distinguish between what is propaganda and what is reality, or the objective evaluation of obviously biased sources like George Fernandes, Advani etc. Well, i don`t think Khalistani lovers based in the U.K, (its where you live right now, and go to school), are likely to have any weight in deciding the Kashmir issue when it comes to the Indian establishment. My advice to you when you grow up (and outgrow your remaining childhood feelings of patriotism for India), is if you really want Khalistan to be free, take up arms, collect money from the Sikh community, and attack any symbol of India that comes within your British based reach. Start with the Indian embassy. Have no mercy for the Sikhs that have cut their hair, they are traitors to Khalistan and their community, who must be firmly dealt with. This is afterall, the orthodox Sikh position.

good luck!

Omar

Attention Amandeep Midha,

While your views are honestly expressed and at least unlike most Indians you have the courage to face the fact that most Kashmiris don’t want to be Indian citizens, the article over all is poorly written. Your grammar is terrible,

You sound like some 14 year old writing for the first time. You should have had this proofed better. How old are you? Some of your facts are distorted/misrepresented. You also seem unaware of the biased nature of your information.

It was Pakistan who lost its patience and attacked Kashmir in 1948, a year after independence.

Nope, it was the tribal area people who created an uprising against the maharaja. Many of these people had military training from having served in the British army.

infiltrators are well trained and belong to countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, Algeria, and others.

This is pure unsubstantiated Indian propaganda. As it turns the Pakistan army was involved plus residents of Srinagar, who regularly cross over to Pakistan’s side of the LOC to get trained and arms, to fight India.

When Osama-bin-Laden came to the Indian subcontinent, India must have got aware of a problem in Kashmir, but they did not.

This is another piece of Indian propaganda repeated by you w/o objective examination. O.B. Laden has nothing to do with any of this. Its much more convenient for India to blame ‘foreign’ terrorists for its problems in Kashmir. The basic problem, which I will give you some credit for, being that Kashmiris don’t want to be part of India, even after 50 years of occupation.

Now I come on the issue of deciding the present crisis. The present infiltrators are not freedom fighters, these are rather highly trained militants. The are working for money and can be dangerous to the integrity of any country. They must be killed not driven back through a safe passage, as Indian Defense Minister Mr. George Fernandez once told.

I think frankly that you should forget about any of these people ‘working for money’. If you think people are prepared to risk their lives for money to fight India in Kashmir, you’re sadly mistaken. The fact is that Indian Security forces have long oppressed Kashmiris. The People who serve in the Pakistan army, and the Kashmiris who fight India are not doing it for money, but rather for love of their country and its future, for their children to be able to breathe the air of freedom, free from INDIAN TYRANNY. Or maybe, they just like killing Indians. But its not about money. This comment shows you’re about 14, as do many other things about this essay.

regards,

Re:Everybody

I am not a military expert but wrote that the Kargil mission or war put Pakistan about $5 million more in debt and India had to bear $something millions on its part.

I just wonder how can this be justified when there are many who want to study and cannot get admission because there arn`t many shchools which can accomodate the increasing number of students both in India and Pakistan???

Can someone answer:

Do we really need Agnis and Ghauris or NEDs and IITs??

regards

FT

Re: Najib

At many places in this forum, you have written that the creation of Pakistan was ``wrong`` and ``illegal``.

If that is the case, then my friend all of India should be ruled by muslims just like the way it was ruled before the British came to India.

On the other hand, the Pakistanis should ask for all of the land(India)that they, muslims, ruled before the British came to India. So the Pakistanis should not only be asking for Kashmir, but also for West Bengal, Assam, Hyberabad Deccan and all the other territories and states ``illegally`` occupied by the ``worst`` democracy in the world, India, which can ban news on tv and newspapers which show more facts than fiction about Kashmir and India as a whole.

Hi Amandeep,

I was truly impressed by your thoughts & suggestions .You were definitely right in mentioning Kashmir as the core problem.However there are some views on which I think you went a bit overboard.

I see India as a Peace-loving sort of Big brother state.I know you would be blaming me for bein partisan but won`t I be right in saying that never has India started a war.Its always that it has been drageed into it .Though as you all may agree this is inspite of it having great military capabilities & so on.Do you think any other country with such power would play a humble role inspite of such scratches being drawn on its body.Really in that perspective I am truly proud to be an Indian.

I agree to your point that Kashmir should be discussed out .Infact from kashmiris point of view I don`t think so it would be of any change if it is accessed to Pakistan.What they want is to bloom Kashmir into a God`s land which it already is .

Hence both of them should sit down & try making it into a prosperous Tourism destination in the world.A child being reared by mother or step-mother doesn`t matter as long as the intentions are noble.

Regards,

Andy

The point I was trying to make, before I was cut-off, was that we are fighting the Indians, because they are there and the Indians are fighting us, because we are there!

The war in Kashmir is a case of mutual reinforcement and after fifty years, neither side knows what else to do, but keep on fighting.