Temporal July 9, 1999
#24 Posted by mubbashir on August 6, 1999 1:26:52 pm
another execution of exremist tyranny:
June 30, 1999FYI(South Asia Citizens Web)
Rights-Bangladesh: Rural Women Suffer ``Fatwa`` Tyranny
DHAKA, Bangladesh - June 28, 1999 (IPS): Teenager Badoi Begum died in
her village home in Sylhet district, some 250-km east of the Bangladesh
capital, late last month after she was publicly caned on the order of
the ``fatwabaj`` or local morality minders.
Her fault was that she had become pregnant as a result of arelationship
with a young man from the same village, and the fatwabaj decreed that
her crime constituted adultery and she should be given 101 lashes inpublic.
The ``fatwa`` or edict issued was carried out immediately, and the
unfortunate girl died the next day from excessive bleeding and shock.
Police have arrested three people in this connection and an
investigation is underway, but the local people are certain thefatwabaj
will be set free because they are influential and have money.
All across this mainly Muslim country these religious upholders of
social morality increasingly wield considerable influence among the
largely illiterate and poor rural population.
Fatwabaj themselves are not conversant with the various aspects of the
``Shariah,`` the Islamic laws, because of their own poor education. Yet
their frequently aired fatwas are heeded by villagers.
More than two dozen cases of women being publicly lashed and thrown out
from villages were reported in the last two years. But the actualnumber
is probably much higher, since mullahs (clerics) are the law in the
remote rural areas.
Rural women are the main victims of the fatwa tyranny. The fatwabajhave
also got after the influential non-governmental organizations (NGOs) of
Bangladesh.Shamsul Huq, director of the Association of Development Agencies in
Bangladesh (ADAB), an apex body of NGOs, said the recent activities of
some fundamentalist political organizations and religious groups have
become a cause for worry.
Fatwabaj have identified NGOs as their principal target for trying to
make rural women educated and self-reliant, he said.
Attacks on women`s gatherings, NGO-run schools, NGO offices and eventhe
felling of trees planted at the initiative of voluntary groups havebeen
carried out, he said, in response to inflammatory proclamations by
mullahs and fatwabaj.
Their anti-people activities must be countered with public awareness
raising campaigns before it starts to damage the progress made in
Bangladesh, he said.
Bangladesh has suddenly been witness to a gradual emergence ofextremist
groups like Hirkatul Zihad al Islami and Kamaat-e-Tola led by leaders
who are working covertly and overtly to bring about a Taliban-style
Islamic revolution in the country.
The attempt on the life of the celebrated liberal poet, Shamsur Rahman,
by members of Hirkatul Zihad in January this year revealed the extentto
which these groups were prepared to go.
The group has a hit-list of some prominent Bangladeshis who are known
for their progressive views.
Police investigations into the assassination attempt are pointing to a
link between the members of the Hirkatul Zihad and Saudi-political
fugitive Osama bin Laden, now living incognito in Afghanistan.
It is also estimated that since the Hirkatul Zihad was set up in 1992,
it has trained some 25,000 recruits mainly students from ``madrashas``
(religious schools) who are indoctrinated in an ideology that glorifies
martyrdom. Most recruits have been boys who are either orphans or from
very poor families.
Intelligence agencies say the Hirkatul Zihad has links with ``terrorist``
groups in the Middle East, Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and
Burma, and receive up to half a million dollars every year to carry out
their activities to make Bangladesh a fundamentalist Islamic state.
Leaders of the pro-Islamic political organizations have issued fatwas
denying women the right to be leaders, despite both Bangladesh`s most
important leaders being women.
Former president and chairman of the Jatiya Party, Hussain Mohamad
Ershad, has been quoted saying in public that only male leaders canmake
Bangladesh a great country. In his opinion, the ``days of woman
leadership is over.``
Syed Fazlul Karim, a religious leader and head of the Islamic
Constitution Movement, said ``Islam does not recognize woman leadership.
A country led by a woman can never make progress. A country with awoman
leader is the result of sins.``
And Mufti Fazlul Huq Amini, a top leader of the Islamic Unity Alliance,
who says he is a supporter of Osama bin Laden, has urged Prime Minister
Sheikh Hasina Wajed to establish Islamic rule. Otherwise her government
would be toppled, he has warned.
Ordinary people however, have shown they are not swept away byreligious
dogma. At the last general election in 1996, only three members of the
right-wing Jamaat-e-Islamic won, compared to the party`s strength of 18
in the previous Bangladesh parliament.
Religious fundamentalism in Bangladesh has been losing ground, says
Abdur Rahman of the left-leaning Workers Party.
[Copyright 1999 - Inter Press Service]
June 30, 1999FYI(South Asia Citizens Web)
Rights-Bangladesh: Rural Women Suffer ``Fatwa`` Tyranny
DHAKA, Bangladesh - June 28, 1999 (IPS): Teenager Badoi Begum died in
her village home in Sylhet district, some 250-km east of the Bangladesh
capital, late last month after she was publicly caned on the order of
the ``fatwabaj`` or local morality minders.
Her fault was that she had become pregnant as a result of arelationship
with a young man from the same village, and the fatwabaj decreed that
her crime constituted adultery and she should be given 101 lashes inpublic.
The ``fatwa`` or edict issued was carried out immediately, and the
unfortunate girl died the next day from excessive bleeding and shock.
Police have arrested three people in this connection and an
investigation is underway, but the local people are certain thefatwabaj
will be set free because they are influential and have money.
All across this mainly Muslim country these religious upholders of
social morality increasingly wield considerable influence among the
largely illiterate and poor rural population.
Fatwabaj themselves are not conversant with the various aspects of the
``Shariah,`` the Islamic laws, because of their own poor education. Yet
their frequently aired fatwas are heeded by villagers.
More than two dozen cases of women being publicly lashed and thrown out
from villages were reported in the last two years. But the actualnumber
is probably much higher, since mullahs (clerics) are the law in the
remote rural areas.
Rural women are the main victims of the fatwa tyranny. The fatwabajhave
also got after the influential non-governmental organizations (NGOs) of
Bangladesh.Shamsul Huq, director of the Association of Development Agencies in
Bangladesh (ADAB), an apex body of NGOs, said the recent activities of
some fundamentalist political organizations and religious groups have
become a cause for worry.
Fatwabaj have identified NGOs as their principal target for trying to
make rural women educated and self-reliant, he said.
Attacks on women`s gatherings, NGO-run schools, NGO offices and eventhe
felling of trees planted at the initiative of voluntary groups havebeen
carried out, he said, in response to inflammatory proclamations by
mullahs and fatwabaj.
Their anti-people activities must be countered with public awareness
raising campaigns before it starts to damage the progress made in
Bangladesh, he said.
Bangladesh has suddenly been witness to a gradual emergence ofextremist
groups like Hirkatul Zihad al Islami and Kamaat-e-Tola led by leaders
who are working covertly and overtly to bring about a Taliban-style
Islamic revolution in the country.
The attempt on the life of the celebrated liberal poet, Shamsur Rahman,
by members of Hirkatul Zihad in January this year revealed the extentto
which these groups were prepared to go.
The group has a hit-list of some prominent Bangladeshis who are known
for their progressive views.
Police investigations into the assassination attempt are pointing to a
link between the members of the Hirkatul Zihad and Saudi-political
fugitive Osama bin Laden, now living incognito in Afghanistan.
It is also estimated that since the Hirkatul Zihad was set up in 1992,
it has trained some 25,000 recruits mainly students from ``madrashas``
(religious schools) who are indoctrinated in an ideology that glorifies
martyrdom. Most recruits have been boys who are either orphans or from
very poor families.
Intelligence agencies say the Hirkatul Zihad has links with ``terrorist``
groups in the Middle East, Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and
Burma, and receive up to half a million dollars every year to carry out
their activities to make Bangladesh a fundamentalist Islamic state.
Leaders of the pro-Islamic political organizations have issued fatwas
denying women the right to be leaders, despite both Bangladesh`s most
important leaders being women.
Former president and chairman of the Jatiya Party, Hussain Mohamad
Ershad, has been quoted saying in public that only male leaders canmake
Bangladesh a great country. In his opinion, the ``days of woman
leadership is over.``
Syed Fazlul Karim, a religious leader and head of the Islamic
Constitution Movement, said ``Islam does not recognize woman leadership.
A country led by a woman can never make progress. A country with awoman
leader is the result of sins.``
And Mufti Fazlul Huq Amini, a top leader of the Islamic Unity Alliance,
who says he is a supporter of Osama bin Laden, has urged Prime Minister
Sheikh Hasina Wajed to establish Islamic rule. Otherwise her government
would be toppled, he has warned.
Ordinary people however, have shown they are not swept away byreligious
dogma. At the last general election in 1996, only three members of the
right-wing Jamaat-e-Islamic won, compared to the party`s strength of 18
in the previous Bangladesh parliament.
Religious fundamentalism in Bangladesh has been losing ground, says
Abdur Rahman of the left-leaning Workers Party.
[Copyright 1999 - Inter Press Service]
#23 Posted by mitr on August 2, 1999 7:29:46 am
Ras Siddiqui : ``after having seen the
performance of Indian ``Moderates`` in the media
during Kargil, ``No More Mr. Nice Guy``.``
Narain : ``I would have spoken up once for peace. Not now, not after Kargil. And I think the silent majority in India which wanted peace with Pakistan has also changed its mind. I regret this, but peace cannot be achieved with a nation which does not understand the concept.``
Is something wrong here
``Blood`s thicker than water``, they say,
Rama looks, wistful and forlorn.
When `tis blood that congeals so shamelessly
Isn`t it good that water`s thinner than blood?
They stone, they blind, they hang the heretic,
Rama looks, wistful and forlorn.
Betwixt bodies possessed by sprites
The wise spirit makes good his escape.
mitr
performance of Indian ``Moderates`` in the media
during Kargil, ``No More Mr. Nice Guy``.``
Narain : ``I would have spoken up once for peace. Not now, not after Kargil. And I think the silent majority in India which wanted peace with Pakistan has also changed its mind. I regret this, but peace cannot be achieved with a nation which does not understand the concept.``
Is something wrong here
``Blood`s thicker than water``, they say,
Rama looks, wistful and forlorn.
When `tis blood that congeals so shamelessly
Isn`t it good that water`s thinner than blood?
They stone, they blind, they hang the heretic,
Rama looks, wistful and forlorn.
Betwixt bodies possessed by sprites
The wise spirit makes good his escape.
mitr
#22 Posted by Ras Siddiqui on July 31, 1999 9:53:36 pm
Nice attempt Ikbal, but after having seen the
performance of Indian ``Moderates`` in the media
during Kargil, ``No More Mr. Nice Guy``.
Please check out a full page AD in USA Today of
July 6th. You will get more of a hint on ``Dushman
Kaun``?
Ras
#21 Posted by Ikbal Khan on July 24, 1999 4:07:49 pm
I am overwhelmed by the positive responses both here and those I have received through Rediff on the net. There is hope yet!
My thrust is long term. In the short term there maybe more Kargils, Siachens and Ranns of Kutch. When I re-read my article I realise I did not mention the secular forces both in India and Pakistan. They must be given due credit.
But, I must reieterate my belief that the moderates must reclaim our ideological and religious identity. Only then can we regain the momentum that can thrust forward the masses of the subcontinent. Muslims have wrongly been taught to believe that they are the REAL chosen people. I know many will disagree with me. But if we calm down and analyse the situation I am sure we will find the rationale and the will to be proud of our respective heritage and still be part of a larger movement for peace in the region.
I thank all of you, those who agree as well as those who disagree, in contributing to this dialogue.
regards
My thrust is long term. In the short term there maybe more Kargils, Siachens and Ranns of Kutch. When I re-read my article I realise I did not mention the secular forces both in India and Pakistan. They must be given due credit.
But, I must reieterate my belief that the moderates must reclaim our ideological and religious identity. Only then can we regain the momentum that can thrust forward the masses of the subcontinent. Muslims have wrongly been taught to believe that they are the REAL chosen people. I know many will disagree with me. But if we calm down and analyse the situation I am sure we will find the rationale and the will to be proud of our respective heritage and still be part of a larger movement for peace in the region.
I thank all of you, those who agree as well as those who disagree, in contributing to this dialogue.
regards
#20 Posted by jay on July 18, 1999 8:50:25 am
Here is one from the battle fields of kargill to unite the indians and pakistanis, in this case at least one dead pakistani.
It is from a pak news paper
India to post citation on Captain Sher`s bravery
DRASS (NNI): The Indian Army is contemplating writing to the Pakistan Army about the bravery of its Captain ``who fought valiantly in the Drass sub-sector before being killed,`` The Indian Express reported.
``Captain Kamal Sher of Delta Company of 12 Northern Light Infantry (NLI) won the respect of Indian officers defending the Tiger Hill feature and the adjoining hills, with his raw courage and brilliant attack. Officers of both, the 18 Grenadiers, and 8 Sikh, watched the brave Pakistani Captain lead a counter attack to recapture the feature of the western spur of Tiger Hills on July 7,`` the paper said.
An officer of the 8 Sikh was quoted as saying that soon after the soldiers of the 8 Sikh recovered the feature on July 7 around 8 am, Captain Kamal Sher with just a handful of Pakistani soldiers, launched a swift counter attack.
``It was suicidal for Sher to launch the attack in broad daylight because we could see his movements. Yet in the highest of military traditions, he launched the attack. It is a disgrace for any army to be evicted from a post and he wanted to save Pakistani army from that disgrace,`` the official said.
``Such was the ferocity of his attack that 8 Sikhs had to be reinforced by a platoon of 18 Grenadier. The Pakistan counter attack was beaten back and 15 of their soldiers were killed. While other Pakistani soldiers tried to run away under the onslaught of Indian guns, Captain Sher rallied around his men, encouraging them to fight on,`` he said
Sher fought till the end till a hail of bullets snuffed life out of him. Even as he fell, his finger was curled around his gun.
``We are a professional Army and respect another professional soldier, even if he is from the enemy side. And we would feel happy if a soldier like him gets recognition for his bravery,`` said the Sikh soldier.
Here in the Drass Sub-sector, officers realise that they may not be able to communicate officially with Pakistan. Therefore, the citation is being written, on a plain piece of paper, to be posted to Pakistan. ``After all, a brave soldier deserves to be recognised,`` the Army here feels.
It is from a pak news paper
India to post citation on Captain Sher`s bravery
DRASS (NNI): The Indian Army is contemplating writing to the Pakistan Army about the bravery of its Captain ``who fought valiantly in the Drass sub-sector before being killed,`` The Indian Express reported.
``Captain Kamal Sher of Delta Company of 12 Northern Light Infantry (NLI) won the respect of Indian officers defending the Tiger Hill feature and the adjoining hills, with his raw courage and brilliant attack. Officers of both, the 18 Grenadiers, and 8 Sikh, watched the brave Pakistani Captain lead a counter attack to recapture the feature of the western spur of Tiger Hills on July 7,`` the paper said.
An officer of the 8 Sikh was quoted as saying that soon after the soldiers of the 8 Sikh recovered the feature on July 7 around 8 am, Captain Kamal Sher with just a handful of Pakistani soldiers, launched a swift counter attack.
``It was suicidal for Sher to launch the attack in broad daylight because we could see his movements. Yet in the highest of military traditions, he launched the attack. It is a disgrace for any army to be evicted from a post and he wanted to save Pakistani army from that disgrace,`` the official said.
``Such was the ferocity of his attack that 8 Sikhs had to be reinforced by a platoon of 18 Grenadier. The Pakistan counter attack was beaten back and 15 of their soldiers were killed. While other Pakistani soldiers tried to run away under the onslaught of Indian guns, Captain Sher rallied around his men, encouraging them to fight on,`` he said
Sher fought till the end till a hail of bullets snuffed life out of him. Even as he fell, his finger was curled around his gun.
``We are a professional Army and respect another professional soldier, even if he is from the enemy side. And we would feel happy if a soldier like him gets recognition for his bravery,`` said the Sikh soldier.
Here in the Drass Sub-sector, officers realise that they may not be able to communicate officially with Pakistan. Therefore, the citation is being written, on a plain piece of paper, to be posted to Pakistan. ``After all, a brave soldier deserves to be recognised,`` the Army here feels.
#19 Posted by bahmad on July 18, 1999 8:50:25 am
Mr. Iqbal Khan has shown great courage in raising his voice against an unwise mode of thinking that seem to prevail in Pakistan (and in India, with some qualifications). I agree with the main thrust of Mr. Khan`s article. As a token of my support, I want to share two of my letters with the audience at this forum.
Frontier Post; Letter to the Editor; June 25, 1999
Peace, not war
The ruling elites in most so-called less-developed countries are obsessed with: (1) the lust for power; and (2) the expectation of sacrifices from the common people without protecting their basic citizenship and human rights. The Pakistani ruling elites are, in addition, obsessed with the desire to make a fool of Pakistani people by diverting their attention from the issues of their everyday livelihood and welfare. This process must stop.
We are on the verge of another bloody war. The Pakistani ruling elites need to truthfully and effectively inform the people around the world (which includes Pakistan) that Pakistan wants peace and not war. Peace in South Asia is necessary for the welfare of common Pakistani citizens and for earning global respect for our homeland and our people. Is Pakistan`s credibility at stake at the moment?
Bilal Ahmad, USA
Frontier Post; Letter to the Editor; July 11, 199
Behave like a living nation
In his recent book ``Jinnah, Pakistan and Islamic Identity``, Akbar S. Ahmed wrote: ``In Kashmir and in Karachi ordinary citizens suffer terrible privations; yet governments dismiss such ongoing atrocities as the work of enemy agents and attempt to use brute force to crush any expression of dissent or genuine demand.``
Blaming others for our weaknesses is deeply ingrained in the culture and politics of India and Pakistan. No enemy can harm us when our own house is in order. Recourse to atrocities, brutalities, and means of destruction proves that our house is not in order. It also shows our lack of capacity and/or unwillingness to resolve the conflicts peacefully and amicably. A living nation is one which learns from its past mistakes.
Bilal Ahmad, USA
Frontier Post; Letter to the Editor; June 25, 1999
Peace, not war
The ruling elites in most so-called less-developed countries are obsessed with: (1) the lust for power; and (2) the expectation of sacrifices from the common people without protecting their basic citizenship and human rights. The Pakistani ruling elites are, in addition, obsessed with the desire to make a fool of Pakistani people by diverting their attention from the issues of their everyday livelihood and welfare. This process must stop.
We are on the verge of another bloody war. The Pakistani ruling elites need to truthfully and effectively inform the people around the world (which includes Pakistan) that Pakistan wants peace and not war. Peace in South Asia is necessary for the welfare of common Pakistani citizens and for earning global respect for our homeland and our people. Is Pakistan`s credibility at stake at the moment?
Bilal Ahmad, USA
Frontier Post; Letter to the Editor; July 11, 199
Behave like a living nation
In his recent book ``Jinnah, Pakistan and Islamic Identity``, Akbar S. Ahmed wrote: ``In Kashmir and in Karachi ordinary citizens suffer terrible privations; yet governments dismiss such ongoing atrocities as the work of enemy agents and attempt to use brute force to crush any expression of dissent or genuine demand.``
Blaming others for our weaknesses is deeply ingrained in the culture and politics of India and Pakistan. No enemy can harm us when our own house is in order. Recourse to atrocities, brutalities, and means of destruction proves that our house is not in order. It also shows our lack of capacity and/or unwillingness to resolve the conflicts peacefully and amicably. A living nation is one which learns from its past mistakes.
Bilal Ahmad, USA
#18 Posted by Godot on July 16, 1999 9:32:36 am
Re: ramas, #14
``God`s blessings upon the peoples of this ancient, exhausted land.``
God helps those who help themselves. In Pakistan`s, and I suppose India`s, case God helps tremendously the politicians and those have mastered the art of kissing the right behinds. Forget about the suffering masses. God has no interest in them.
Re: wasiqnawaz, #19
``How do you suggest we solve the Kashmir dispute--hold hands and pray together?``
How about ``hands across the subcontinent`` singing ``We`re the South Asians``!
``God`s blessings upon the peoples of this ancient, exhausted land.``
God helps those who help themselves. In Pakistan`s, and I suppose India`s, case God helps tremendously the politicians and those have mastered the art of kissing the right behinds. Forget about the suffering masses. God has no interest in them.
Re: wasiqnawaz, #19
``How do you suggest we solve the Kashmir dispute--hold hands and pray together?``
How about ``hands across the subcontinent`` singing ``We`re the South Asians``!
#17 Posted by wasiqnawaz on July 15, 1999 6:25:10 pm
Which planet do you live on? This article was unbelievably platidudinous and trite. I suppose naivete is sometimes the birth spring of idealism, but its also often an obstacle to solid solutions to real problems. How do you suggest we solve the Kashmir dispute--hold hands and pray together?
#16 Posted by ferozk on July 15, 1999 6:08:23 pm
Re: arun gupta
Interesting observations.....
On the issue of defense spending, most of that money does not go towards the procurement of new equipment, but towards the maintainence of the existing hardware and on saleries.
On the issue of Indian defense percentages vis a vis Pakistani, India still spends more due to its better GDP than Pakistan and in real terms, taking inflation into account. Pakistan`s share is actually more than 5% (in real monetary terms, Pakistan`s defense budget is around 45% of its GDP, because of its attempts to seek ``parity`` with India.)
Interesting observations.....
On the issue of defense spending, most of that money does not go towards the procurement of new equipment, but towards the maintainence of the existing hardware and on saleries.
On the issue of Indian defense percentages vis a vis Pakistani, India still spends more due to its better GDP than Pakistan and in real terms, taking inflation into account. Pakistan`s share is actually more than 5% (in real monetary terms, Pakistan`s defense budget is around 45% of its GDP, because of its attempts to seek ``parity`` with India.)
#15 Posted by mayhem on July 15, 1999 12:35:19 am
Arun Gupta, what you have said is great, but what you don`t realize is that when the Pak govt tested its nuclear capabilities that is when sanctions hit us. India can survive on its own, even with sanctions-it has a self supporting economy-but Pakistan can`t. The govt basically stole the people`s money (11 billion dollars of it) by freezing their accounts until ``further notice.`` Inflation has proceeded at an exponential rate in adittion to a host of other factors, it is these problems which defence creates...
#14 Posted by macgupta on July 14, 1999 2:29:40 pm
There are plenty more facts like this, but two
will suffice :
1. India spends 10% more per capita than Sri Lanka on education, according to an article in the Indian newspaper, The Hindu. Yet Sri Lanka is 90% literate, and India barely above 50%. The article says that teachers in villages take their salaries but do not turn up to teach.
2. The government of India itself (Fifth Pay Commission) reports that government employees work only two hours per day on the average.
Question to ponder and find out for yourself :
how much of the government budget goes on salaries ? (both state, and central)
Also : defence is a legitimate function of government. On other responsibilities of government, there is a lot of room for disagreement.
Another fact : India`s defence budget as % of GDP
is 3.3%. Pakistan`s and China`s is greater than 5%.
Based on information like this my conclusions are that India will not benefit by diverting money from defence to development; rather it will benefit by trimming the rolls of government employees and by spending development money more efficiently. Similar conclusions may or may not hold good for Pakistan -- I do not have enough information.
The call to reduce defence spending and magically get development is feel-good sloganeering and does not betray any real thought devoted to the matter.
-arun gupta
will suffice :
1. India spends 10% more per capita than Sri Lanka on education, according to an article in the Indian newspaper, The Hindu. Yet Sri Lanka is 90% literate, and India barely above 50%. The article says that teachers in villages take their salaries but do not turn up to teach.
2. The government of India itself (Fifth Pay Commission) reports that government employees work only two hours per day on the average.
Question to ponder and find out for yourself :
how much of the government budget goes on salaries ? (both state, and central)
Also : defence is a legitimate function of government. On other responsibilities of government, there is a lot of room for disagreement.
Another fact : India`s defence budget as % of GDP
is 3.3%. Pakistan`s and China`s is greater than 5%.
Based on information like this my conclusions are that India will not benefit by diverting money from defence to development; rather it will benefit by trimming the rolls of government employees and by spending development money more efficiently. Similar conclusions may or may not hold good for Pakistan -- I do not have enough information.
The call to reduce defence spending and magically get development is feel-good sloganeering and does not betray any real thought devoted to the matter.
-arun gupta
#12 Posted by mayhem on July 14, 1999 12:12:15 am
Peace is what we need, we need food and education for the poor not some God Dammed Ghouri missile than can go 100 miles...what the hell is wrong with everyone from this Country...economic sanctions result in inflation, which results in unemployment, which results in depression...at the rate Paksitan is going it will never get out of a depression...a war is not the answer to Kashmir...get rid of your pride...screw Kashmir...lets at least make what we have a better place, before taking over Kashmir and making that place a inefficient, corrupt, and screwed up as the rest of Pakistan...
#11 Posted by kamran9999 on July 13, 1999 8:16:09 pm
Are you the Rubinaesque Kamran?
Yours truly.
However, there is nothing Rubenesque about her. :)
-!Kamran!-
Yours truly.
However, there is nothing Rubenesque about her. :)
-!Kamran!-
#10 Posted by Ikbal Khan on July 13, 1999 10:51:31 am
Re: Kamran9999:
But of course you`re right! See what happens when we do not use the mind? The word s/b ``propagating``.
``Proliferating`` does not sit well.
regards,
P.S. Are you the Rubinaesque Kamran?
But of course you`re right! See what happens when we do not use the mind? The word s/b ``propagating``.
``Proliferating`` does not sit well.
regards,
P.S. Are you the Rubinaesque Kamran?
#9 Posted by narain on July 13, 1999 12:03:38 am
I would have spoken up once for peace. Not now,
not after Kargil. And I think the silent majority
in India which wanted peace with Pakistan has
also changed its mind. I regret this, but peace
cannot be achieved with a nation which does not
understand the concept.
not after Kargil. And I think the silent majority
in India which wanted peace with Pakistan has
also changed its mind. I regret this, but peace
cannot be achieved with a nation which does not
understand the concept.
listing 1-16
1 2
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