Imran Khan: Pakistan’s Next PM?
George F Maximillian July 17, 1999
#28 Posted by ferozk on July 21, 1999 3:12:22 pm
Re: rkhan
This is a tangent to the topic, but Hitler never touched a drop during his reign as the der Fuhrer of the Third Reich. There were, however, certain periods in his life, when he might have resorted to alcohol.
One was, when he a broke art student in Vienna without a future and second could be before his Munich putsch and prior to his jailing and the writing of his Mein Kampf and third could be when he was in love with his niece with whom he had an affair; who because of his total control over her life would later commit suicide. We know that he was really depressed after her death and it was around this time that he started to take sleeping pills, the begining of his addiction to drugs.
I would be really interested in the URL.
This is a tangent to the topic, but Hitler never touched a drop during his reign as the der Fuhrer of the Third Reich. There were, however, certain periods in his life, when he might have resorted to alcohol.
One was, when he a broke art student in Vienna without a future and second could be before his Munich putsch and prior to his jailing and the writing of his Mein Kampf and third could be when he was in love with his niece with whom he had an affair; who because of his total control over her life would later commit suicide. We know that he was really depressed after her death and it was around this time that he started to take sleeping pills, the begining of his addiction to drugs.
I would be really interested in the URL.
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#27 Posted by bahmad on July 21, 1999 11:08:30 am
I have published the following letter in the Frontier Post (July 21, 1999; today):
Needed: Visionary Leaders
Malcolm X, a well-known African-American leader, once remarked that: ``You can`t separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom`` (Speech on 7 Jan. 1965, New York City).
A Pakistani of average intelligence would quickly reject Malcolm X`s insight by arguing that: ``We gained freedom some fifty-two years back, yet we lack peace in Pakistan.``
Assuming that both statements are wholly or partially true, we need to look at the root of this contradiction. The problem, in fact, lies in the way we conceptualize freedom. Freedom is a loaded word. One important dimension of freedom is ``the freedom of mind and spirit.`` Are our minds and spirits free or colonized? Is the issue of freedom somehow linked with the question of citizenship and human rights?
In the Western World, there has been a significant enlargement of freedom as a result of the acquisition of various civil, political, and social rights. People acquired these citizenship rights as a result of numerous collective struggles. A case in point is the American Civil Rights Movement. Do we have visionary leaders in Pakistan who have the capacity and willingness to learn from such collective struggles? Do they have the ability to mobilize the citizens of Pakistan to wage an honest, well-conceived, and peaceful struggle for their citizenship rights? If yes, it is high time that they come forward and take concrete steps to win the confidence and support of the common people of Pakistan. As a matter of strategy, they need to first chalk out their ``visions`` in black and white and share them with the people of Pakistan.
Bilal Ahmad
USA
Needed: Visionary Leaders
Malcolm X, a well-known African-American leader, once remarked that: ``You can`t separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom`` (Speech on 7 Jan. 1965, New York City).
A Pakistani of average intelligence would quickly reject Malcolm X`s insight by arguing that: ``We gained freedom some fifty-two years back, yet we lack peace in Pakistan.``
Assuming that both statements are wholly or partially true, we need to look at the root of this contradiction. The problem, in fact, lies in the way we conceptualize freedom. Freedom is a loaded word. One important dimension of freedom is ``the freedom of mind and spirit.`` Are our minds and spirits free or colonized? Is the issue of freedom somehow linked with the question of citizenship and human rights?
In the Western World, there has been a significant enlargement of freedom as a result of the acquisition of various civil, political, and social rights. People acquired these citizenship rights as a result of numerous collective struggles. A case in point is the American Civil Rights Movement. Do we have visionary leaders in Pakistan who have the capacity and willingness to learn from such collective struggles? Do they have the ability to mobilize the citizens of Pakistan to wage an honest, well-conceived, and peaceful struggle for their citizenship rights? If yes, it is high time that they come forward and take concrete steps to win the confidence and support of the common people of Pakistan. As a matter of strategy, they need to first chalk out their ``visions`` in black and white and share them with the people of Pakistan.
Bilal Ahmad
USA
#26 Posted by bahmad on July 21, 1999 11:08:30 am
In response to Wasiq (Reply # 29; first part):
A good response, good thinking.
Your statement: ``When people really want to change their lives, they do it themselves, and have a leader who is symbolic of their desires. It goes both ways I think, people to leaders and leaders to people.``
My response: Ideally, I have no difficulty with these statements. However, in Pakistani polity, leaders have often been imposed from the top. Leadership needs to evolve organically from the people. Why effective grassroots movements, if really any, have failed to produce good leaders? A major part of this problem, I think, is too much centralization of power and too much dependence on the means of violence (coercion; repression) to quell public dissent and resistence. The people of Pakistan are generally scared to start any grassroots movement. The history of MQM provides some good insights about the state-civil society relationship in the ``real`` Pakistan
Your question: ``How to make people desire for something other than the gutter? ``
My response: The common people in Pakistan need to be educated by individuals like you and me through the dissemination of good ideas. We also need to think and rethink about our views and opinions. One right step would be to keep on writing (and speaking to people) to the best of our abilities. Make people think slowly and gradually. Pakistani people are not used to serious thinking. In this process, we will educate the masses (including ourselves) as well as our so-called leaders. If by ``gutter`` you mean ``the self-imposed leaders,`` a lot of people definitely desire something better but they don`t know how to fulfill their desires. One strategy would be to make them feel that they are living human beings (not animals) who need to recognize and struggle for their rights in the interest of their coming generations (and in the greater interest of Pakistan).
A good response, good thinking.
Your statement: ``When people really want to change their lives, they do it themselves, and have a leader who is symbolic of their desires. It goes both ways I think, people to leaders and leaders to people.``
My response: Ideally, I have no difficulty with these statements. However, in Pakistani polity, leaders have often been imposed from the top. Leadership needs to evolve organically from the people. Why effective grassroots movements, if really any, have failed to produce good leaders? A major part of this problem, I think, is too much centralization of power and too much dependence on the means of violence (coercion; repression) to quell public dissent and resistence. The people of Pakistan are generally scared to start any grassroots movement. The history of MQM provides some good insights about the state-civil society relationship in the ``real`` Pakistan
Your question: ``How to make people desire for something other than the gutter? ``
My response: The common people in Pakistan need to be educated by individuals like you and me through the dissemination of good ideas. We also need to think and rethink about our views and opinions. One right step would be to keep on writing (and speaking to people) to the best of our abilities. Make people think slowly and gradually. Pakistani people are not used to serious thinking. In this process, we will educate the masses (including ourselves) as well as our so-called leaders. If by ``gutter`` you mean ``the self-imposed leaders,`` a lot of people definitely desire something better but they don`t know how to fulfill their desires. One strategy would be to make them feel that they are living human beings (not animals) who need to recognize and struggle for their rights in the interest of their coming generations (and in the greater interest of Pakistan).
#25 Posted by Zakkk on July 21, 1999 7:13:04 am
A little point people ,...do any of you know
who Nawabzada Mohsin Ali is ?..or retd Gen mujib ur Rehman ?..
..take a look at the firsts political life ..if you get a chance
the 2nd was Zia ul Haq`s Information spin Doctor ..he was diff from Mushahid Hussain in the sense that he closed newspapers or censored the ones he didnt like ..
Both of them are in Tehrik e insaf ..
anyone know Nasim Zehra and Owais Ghani ..both of em left Tehrik e Insaf in protest at who was joining it ...
I leave you to make your own deductions ..
who Nawabzada Mohsin Ali is ?..or retd Gen mujib ur Rehman ?..
..take a look at the firsts political life ..if you get a chance
the 2nd was Zia ul Haq`s Information spin Doctor ..he was diff from Mushahid Hussain in the sense that he closed newspapers or censored the ones he didnt like ..
Both of them are in Tehrik e insaf ..
anyone know Nasim Zehra and Owais Ghani ..both of em left Tehrik e Insaf in protest at who was joining it ...
I leave you to make your own deductions ..
#24 Posted by rkhan on July 21, 1999 6:52:31 am
Ferozk # 28
Thanks for pointing out the incorrectness of my message. I always appreciate constructive critism on myself.
As for Hitler I had read so as well. But recently found something on the net telling me about the occasional beer. I will lookup the URL and let you know. But it might be incorrect too.
Thanks again
Thanks for pointing out the incorrectness of my message. I always appreciate constructive critism on myself.
As for Hitler I had read so as well. But recently found something on the net telling me about the occasional beer. I will lookup the URL and let you know. But it might be incorrect too.
Thanks again
#23 Posted by temporal on July 21, 1999 12:45:28 am
Wasiq:
Always a pleasure to hear from you. Getting away from seven men and a straw, under the present conditions, not even Muhammed, pbuh, can singlehandedly guide Pakistan out of the murky waters. Even he needed dedicated and sincere core of friends and comrades to pull his miracle. I agree it is wishful thinking on our part to EVEN wish or think any one individual can pull us out of the woods.
regards,
Always a pleasure to hear from you. Getting away from seven men and a straw, under the present conditions, not even Muhammed, pbuh, can singlehandedly guide Pakistan out of the murky waters. Even he needed dedicated and sincere core of friends and comrades to pull his miracle. I agree it is wishful thinking on our part to EVEN wish or think any one individual can pull us out of the woods.
regards,
#22 Posted by ferozk on July 20, 1999 5:29:53 pm
re: rkhan # 8
FYI, Winston Churchill never attended college. After Harrow, he was admited to Sandhurst, where his poor grades kept him from joining the infantry and he was forced to join the cavalry and ended up with the Fourth Hussars in India. He may have smoked opium, in India may be, but never in college!
As to Hilter, he never touched a drop of alcohol in his life, including beer.
FYI, Winston Churchill never attended college. After Harrow, he was admited to Sandhurst, where his poor grades kept him from joining the infantry and he was forced to join the cavalry and ended up with the Fourth Hussars in India. He may have smoked opium, in India may be, but never in college!
As to Hilter, he never touched a drop of alcohol in his life, including beer.
#21 Posted by UR on July 20, 1999 5:23:21 pm
Re Wasiq:
Your views seem quite idealistic. Obviously, the best solution is to search the length and breadth of Pakistan to find the best political leader for the country. But, who is to say that person will have the will power to come to the front, and get involved in the political process. And will that person be able to win?
One must be practical , and select from what is available, rather than wish for a miracle. Of the political leaders who are available, Imran Khan seems the most honest. If you have any other names, please let us know. Again, please keep in mind these people should be willing to go through the political process.
Your views seem quite idealistic. Obviously, the best solution is to search the length and breadth of Pakistan to find the best political leader for the country. But, who is to say that person will have the will power to come to the front, and get involved in the political process. And will that person be able to win?
One must be practical , and select from what is available, rather than wish for a miracle. Of the political leaders who are available, Imran Khan seems the most honest. If you have any other names, please let us know. Again, please keep in mind these people should be willing to go through the political process.
#20 Posted by bahmad on July 20, 1999 11:09:39 am
In response to Wasiq (Reply #22):
Dear Wasiq: You indeed are a clear thinker. We need a lot more people like you. Pakistani people must come forward and fulfill their responsibilities as good and responsible citizens of Pakistan. One important responsibility of a citizen is to keep a check on his/her leaders. Only withdrawing support is, in my view, insufficient.
Your thought experiment is interesting. Identifying the traits of a leader is very important. In reality, however, we need to accept the leaders with some of their weaknesses. Electoral politics is an expensive game. I don`t foresee the elimination of the rich and powerful from the political scene (at least in the liberal democracies). In order to bring some sort of positive change, we need to provide a strong and uninterrupted critique of our old stock and make something out of both old and new. We also need to realize our citizenship and human rights and struggle for them in as peaceful manner as possible. We must impress upon our unscrupulous and unresponsive ruling elite that they mend their ways and work for a better future for our (and their) coming generations. To me, this seems to be a viable and wiser course of action.
Best wishes, Bilal Ahmad
Dear Wasiq: You indeed are a clear thinker. We need a lot more people like you. Pakistani people must come forward and fulfill their responsibilities as good and responsible citizens of Pakistan. One important responsibility of a citizen is to keep a check on his/her leaders. Only withdrawing support is, in my view, insufficient.
Your thought experiment is interesting. Identifying the traits of a leader is very important. In reality, however, we need to accept the leaders with some of their weaknesses. Electoral politics is an expensive game. I don`t foresee the elimination of the rich and powerful from the political scene (at least in the liberal democracies). In order to bring some sort of positive change, we need to provide a strong and uninterrupted critique of our old stock and make something out of both old and new. We also need to realize our citizenship and human rights and struggle for them in as peaceful manner as possible. We must impress upon our unscrupulous and unresponsive ruling elite that they mend their ways and work for a better future for our (and their) coming generations. To me, this seems to be a viable and wiser course of action.
Best wishes, Bilal Ahmad
#19 Posted by mayhem on July 20, 1999 8:56:56 am
Re: Wasiq...just curious...but who in Pakistan has the intelligence to discern between politicians if they re-elected Benazir-who went of CBS and told Dan Rather ``Pakistan should be made a terrorist state`` when NS was in power (the 1st time around)...the people are pawns in awe of these polititcians they have nothing to do, but sit around on their charpai`s and talk about this BS. There is no-one else who has the financial backing and the HEART to do what is right instead of trying to only increase thier personal gain...if there is one such person with such tremendous name recognition...name him/her...
#18 Posted by Oye on July 20, 1999 6:20:20 am
Everyone deserves a chance to prove him/herself.
Be it Imran Khan or the beggar man on the side of the road. We`re all human. No one is perfect.
Be it Imran Khan or the beggar man on the side of the road. We`re all human. No one is perfect.
#17 Posted by bahmad on July 19, 1999 8:08:50 pm
In response to Wasiq (Replies #12 and #18):
Wasiq has made some very good comments and observations which need our serious attention.
Wasiq`s statement:
``Leadership in this world requires thought, intelligence, experience with international affairs, knowledge about law, an understanding of history and society.``
My comment:
An extremely important statement. Leaders of Pakistan (present and future) listen to Wasiq. He is talking sense.
Wasiq`s statement:
``Pakistan has a lot of good people who are genuinely talented and deserve to be leaders. They probably do not volunteer their services because of the vermin that infests our political landscape.
My comment:
I tend to agree, but how could they become leaders if they don`t come forward and show that leadership qualities? And, their lack of action due to ``the vermin that infests our political landscape`` clearly shows (at least to me) that they lack dedication and leadership qualities. However, if they cannot come forward due to the monetary factor, they can provide leadership at least through their writings. Pakistani press is currently reasonably free.
Wasiq`s comment:
Pakistani people have the intelligence to discern qualified candidates, it is high time we did so.``
My comment:
Which Pakistani people? Urban or Rural? Educated or illiterate? Rich or poor? . . . . Can you substantiate your statement with reasonable evidence?
Wasiq`s statement:
``What is required is intelligence, vision, experience and a head that is screwed on straight.``
Comment:
A good statement. Can you identify a few individuals who closely fit this description?
One final question:
What are your views concerning: (1) the decentralization of government power and responsibilities, and (2) the reform of state apparatus?
Wasiq has made some very good comments and observations which need our serious attention.
Wasiq`s statement:
``Leadership in this world requires thought, intelligence, experience with international affairs, knowledge about law, an understanding of history and society.``
My comment:
An extremely important statement. Leaders of Pakistan (present and future) listen to Wasiq. He is talking sense.
Wasiq`s statement:
``Pakistan has a lot of good people who are genuinely talented and deserve to be leaders. They probably do not volunteer their services because of the vermin that infests our political landscape.
My comment:
I tend to agree, but how could they become leaders if they don`t come forward and show that leadership qualities? And, their lack of action due to ``the vermin that infests our political landscape`` clearly shows (at least to me) that they lack dedication and leadership qualities. However, if they cannot come forward due to the monetary factor, they can provide leadership at least through their writings. Pakistani press is currently reasonably free.
Wasiq`s comment:
Pakistani people have the intelligence to discern qualified candidates, it is high time we did so.``
My comment:
Which Pakistani people? Urban or Rural? Educated or illiterate? Rich or poor? . . . . Can you substantiate your statement with reasonable evidence?
Wasiq`s statement:
``What is required is intelligence, vision, experience and a head that is screwed on straight.``
Comment:
A good statement. Can you identify a few individuals who closely fit this description?
One final question:
What are your views concerning: (1) the decentralization of government power and responsibilities, and (2) the reform of state apparatus?
#16 Posted by mayhem on July 19, 1999 2:45:02 pm
re: RAS-R U FREAKIN INSANE! What the hell are you supporting baked boobs (BB) for...sheesh she`s as big a slutt as Imran is womanizer...
As for the dude who says we don`t want the ``reborn Muslim crap`` Give birth to this, HONESTY! Give birth to someone who will admit his own shortcomings and mistakes. Benzir sits in London on her 300 acre surrey estate (which we, the people paid for) and says nothing but bullsht to advance her own case.
Damn fools was wrong with ya`ll? Give someone a chance...if he makes a mistake he`ll admit it...he doesn`t need money...he wants to help...man find that in the dman, Elahi`s, Leghari`s, Butt`s, and every other mf-ing politician...sheesh give the guy a chance...CAN HE DO ANY WORSE THAN BB-no way...Imran has the brains to know when he needs help, he will bring in the best advisors, expatriates will actually come back becasue they know that there is a chance for change and they can help. Imran will attack real problems-not trying to save his ass over some Kashmir bs, like Nawaz is...he doesn`t care if he doesn`t get re-eleted for he knows that he`ll do so much in his first term that the country will get fixed up. Man o man, here comes a guy willing to change the bullsht we have, and ya`ll say no...this country will never change with fools like ya`ll...we need to split Paksitan in two...and send fools like you to one half (any half) and have the people who wanna do somehting and help in the other half...
As for the dude who says we don`t want the ``reborn Muslim crap`` Give birth to this, HONESTY! Give birth to someone who will admit his own shortcomings and mistakes. Benzir sits in London on her 300 acre surrey estate (which we, the people paid for) and says nothing but bullsht to advance her own case.
Damn fools was wrong with ya`ll? Give someone a chance...if he makes a mistake he`ll admit it...he doesn`t need money...he wants to help...man find that in the dman, Elahi`s, Leghari`s, Butt`s, and every other mf-ing politician...sheesh give the guy a chance...CAN HE DO ANY WORSE THAN BB-no way...Imran has the brains to know when he needs help, he will bring in the best advisors, expatriates will actually come back becasue they know that there is a chance for change and they can help. Imran will attack real problems-not trying to save his ass over some Kashmir bs, like Nawaz is...he doesn`t care if he doesn`t get re-eleted for he knows that he`ll do so much in his first term that the country will get fixed up. Man o man, here comes a guy willing to change the bullsht we have, and ya`ll say no...this country will never change with fools like ya`ll...we need to split Paksitan in two...and send fools like you to one half (any half) and have the people who wanna do somehting and help in the other half...
#15 Posted by mayhem on July 19, 1999 2:45:02 pm
re: RAS-R U FREAKIN INSANE! What the hell arou supporting big boobiess (BB) for...sheesh she`s as big a slutt as Imran is womanizer...
As for the dude who says we don`t want the ``reborn Muslim crap`` Give birth to this, HONESTY! Give birth to someone who will admit his own shortcomings and mistakes. Benzir sits in London on her 300 acre surrey estate (which we, the people paid for) and says nothing but bull shitt to advance her own case.
As for the dude who says we don`t want the ``reborn Muslim crap`` Give birth to this, HONESTY! Give birth to someone who will admit his own shortcomings and mistakes. Benzir sits in London on her 300 acre surrey estate (which we, the people paid for) and says nothing but bull shitt to advance her own case.
#14 Posted by mayhem on July 19, 1999 2:45:02 pm
A very interesting article, but I feel that Imran Khan has one quality that no other politician in Pakistan has. Imran has a heart, he wants to help, he wants change. He was a gold-digger-so what? That only proves that he is so wealthy now, that he won`t steal money live Benazir did and Nawaz (supposedly) is doing. He will educate and feed the poor. He will take the steps which are right for the country. He will not bow down to pressures from ridiculous organizations (aka PPP and PML)-he will do something which is more than I can speak for everyone else. He will bring credibility to Pakistan, a bresh of fresh air. He will win an election one day, just how the people in Minnesota elected Jesse Ventura because they wanted change and were sick of the bullshit. Imran will get elected people are frustrated from the 90`s dominance of Nawaz and Benazir-people want to see something done...and yes Imran is the only forseeable person to do it...only and only if he brings in Moeen Qureshi as one of his top notch advisors, economic minister, finance minister, or president. He is the only hope we have left...he is the only one who is not gonna sit around on his fat ass (Nawaz) or have babies while their husband is in jail (Benazir) is is gonna attack the loadshedding, poice corruption, inefficeint governmental problems that are an everyday occurance in Pakistan.
IMRAN KHAN IS THIS COUNTRY`S ONLY HOPE! He is the only one who can turn this thing around...otherwise (to quote a chowk author) ``if were going down, we are sure going down in style (the $100,00 cars, phillipino maids, cell phones, pointell motorways, and exploited yellow cab schemes-hello to the dude in Lahore with the porsche yellow cab.``
IMRAN KHAN IS THIS COUNTRY`S ONLY HOPE! He is the only one who can turn this thing around...otherwise (to quote a chowk author) ``if were going down, we are sure going down in style (the $100,00 cars, phillipino maids, cell phones, pointell motorways, and exploited yellow cab schemes-hello to the dude in Lahore with the porsche yellow cab.``
#13 Posted by mayhem on July 19, 1999 2:45:02 pm
A very interesting article, but I feel that Imran Khan has one quality that no other politician in Pakistan has. Imran has a heart, he wants to help, he wants change. He was a gold-digger-so what? That only proves that he is so wealthy now, that he won`t steal money live Benazir did and Nawaz (supposedly) is doing. He will educate and feed the poor. He will take the steps which are right for the country. He will not bow down to pressures from ridiculous organizations (aka PPP and PML)-he will do something which is more than I can speak for everyone else. He will bring credibility to Pakistan, a bresh of fresh air. He will win an election one day, just how the people in Minnesota elected Jesse Ventura because they wanted change and were sick of the bullshit. Imran will get elected people are frustrated from the 90`s dominance of Nawaz and Benazir-people want to see something done...and yes Imran is the only forseeable person to do it...only and only if he brings in Moeen Qureshi as one of his top notch advisors, economic minister, finance minister, or president. He is the only hope we have left...he is the only one who is not gonna sit around on his fat ass (Nawaz) or have babies while their husband is in jail (Benazir) is is gonna attack the loadshedding, poice corruption, inefficeint governmental problems that are an everyday occurance in Pakistan.
IMRAN KHAN IS THIS COUNTRY`S ONLY HOPE! He is the only one who can turn this thing around...otherwise (to quote a chowk author) ``if were going down, we are sure going down in style (the $100,00 cars, phillipino maids, cell phones, pointell motorways, and exploited yellow cab schemes-hello to the dude in Lahore with the porsche yellow cab.``
IMRAN KHAN IS THIS COUNTRY`S ONLY HOPE! He is the only one who can turn this thing around...otherwise (to quote a chowk author) ``if were going down, we are sure going down in style (the $100,00 cars, phillipino maids, cell phones, pointell motorways, and exploited yellow cab schemes-hello to the dude in Lahore with the porsche yellow cab.``
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