Save India

Omar#53

The way i look at it due to longstanding.animosity,hostility &mistrust between the two countries,its clear India will always have a selective memory &hearing in matters of Kashmir.

May be if enough Hindus in India & muslims in Pakistan,already being not part of the govt. machinery for most,Initiate ``biting the bullet``& proceed confidently to open arms wel come between the citizenery of two countries,then there may still be some hope left for the next mellineum!

From Dawn, letter to the ed August 20th 1999

Kashmir: an Indian`s point of view

I am a second generation Omani of Indian origin and I am very lucky to live in the country of peace, tranquillity, and harmony under the wise leadership of His Majesty Sultan Qaboos. Sultanate of Oman due to the magnanimity of his Majesty, has no border disputes or quarrels with any of its neighbours. I have recently returned from the US and feel that I have returned to a warm paradise on earth.

I am also witness to the fact that we Hindus have never felt victimized, discriminated against, or looked down upon by the overwhelming Muslim majority of Oman in any way. Even the Pakistanis (and there are many Pakistani expatriates here) living in Oman greet the Omani as well as non-Omani Hindus with friendship, courtesy and without any communal feelings of any kind. What hurts me is that when I read the Indian newspapers, and the statements of some of the Indian leaders, I find them full of communal hatred and hysteria against the Muslims living in India. How can India claim to be a secular state when its popular leaders give out such non-secular statements? In retaliation, some fanatical Pakistani leaders make similar jingoistic statements.

The latest episode of shooting down of an unarmed non-hostile Pakistani aircraft, (whether it did or did not cross the border is a matter of claims and counter-claims and immaterial to the basic argument) the debris of which fell within Pakistani territory, is hardly likely to enhance the chances of peace.

The Kashmir problem is being dragged by India and Pakistan for the last 50 years without any solution. Hundreds of billions of rupees have been wasted by both India and Pakistan in an arms race that only benefits the makers of those arms. That money would have been better spent in feeding the hungry of both the countries. They have now also entered a nuclear race, which only spells disaster in the hands of the religious fanatics on both sides. If only that money had been distributed to the people of Kashmir then each one of them would be a millionaire today instead they have had nothing but misery. The human misery of Kashmir is no less than the one in Northern Ireland. Even that problem could not be solved by war and ultimately the solution came across the negotiating table. Let India and Pakistan sit around the negotiating table and solve this problem finally. They should learn from the example of Oman that magnanimity in border disputes brings about lasting peace and harmony that ultimately breaks down the borders forever.

In many ways, the problem of Kashmir is very similar to the problem of Quebec. In Kashmir also there is a linguistically and ethnically different population that is asking for the right to choose their future. There have been two referendums to decide if Quebec will remain in Canada or will separate. Canada does not call Quebec as its integral inseparable part. Why should India?

States of a union - and India is a union of states - stay together based on the desires of the people living in those states and no one can be forced to be a part of any union or country. That is the way of the modern world. The Indian government should also have the courage to hold a referendum in Kashmir so that the Kashmiri people can decide whether they want to stay with India or to separate from it.

Germany, England, and France fought two World Wars in which millions of people died yet today they sit together as good friends around the table of the common European community. If these warring factions of the two World Wars can live in peace and harmony then why can`t India and Pakistan? The Europeans have learned that wars bring hatred, misery, and economic regression whereas peace brings tranquillity, brotherly love, hope, and economic progress. Let the Indians and Pakistanis do the same. Let there be a free and fair referendum under the United Nations, like in East Timor, and let the people of Kashmir decide what they want to be their future.

VIJAY AJIT KESHAVJI

Muscat, Oman

The patient is not in good shape.

``Let us call in Dr. Kevorkian`` is the suggestion.

After all, when the patient is no more, there

will be no pain and suffering. Other remedies

are less certain of success.

-arun gupta

The whole idea of a benevolent dictatorship is so feudal, it`s sickening.

A lot of the societal ills enumerated in Veer`s diatribe are a direct result of the feudal mentality that our masses can`t seem to rid themselves of. What is ironic is that while lamenting the inescapably feudal makeup of our current system, Veer suggests an even more feudal system as a cure!

The paradox of a democratic system governing a poor country is conspicuously obvious. Being a poor country, the majority of the population is poor and illiterate and therefore the representatives chosen by these people are of questionable merit. But to suggest that the way to get the masses prosperous and educated is by whipping them into shape is outrageous!

The basis of the `benevolent dictatorship` solution is nauseously elitist....

``Those poor bas * *rds are oppressed and uneducated and will always remain so...``

``Those poor bas * *rds are ignorant and keep making babies left, right and center...``

``Those rich bas * *rds have all the corrupt politicians in their pockets and keep getting richer...``

``Those bas * *rds in the judiciary and beaurocracy have no integrity...``

``Why do we lack the `unselfish` and `patriotic` attitude of our leaders that fought the British?``

``The only solution is to let the army take over``.

``Let the army punish all the transgressors who have pillaged the masses by abusing the system for so long...``

``Let the army rescue the oppressed from their viciously cyclical misery... show them the light...``

Well...

How will the `army` educate the masses?

How will the `army` control the population explosion?

How will the `army` rid the political system off corruption?

How will the `army` instill integrity into the judges and the beaurocrats?

How will the `army` bring back an unqualified patriotic fervor?

I`ll tell you how!

To educate the masses the army will make education mandatory. Since you can`t have poor people fork out cash for mandatory education, the education system will grow into an even bigger behemoth of a state run, state controlled sub-standard monster. All the headway made towards the privatization of the education system so far will be negated.

To control the population growth the army will hold Sanjay Gandhi style camps for some `pro-active` family planning. We got lucky when the `ooper wallah` exercised his prerogative and recalled one of his defective creations in an opportunely timed plane crash. An army rule will only rekindle the spirit of that gruesome ``submit your testicles and get one transistor free`` legacy.

To wash the governing body of all corruption, the army - now itself the governing body, will do Diddley Freakin Squat!!! In an organization where to preserve the sanctity of the `chain of command` members are taught to carry out tasks without questioning the morality, righteousness or outcome of their tasks, how do you expect the top brass of the army to refrain from misusing their awesome power? Like I pointed out in my earlier posting... these armymen are no angels with wings and halos, they are regular people as affected by the social malaise as you and I.

To instill integrity into the judiciary and the beaurocracy, the army will practice KGB style `selective annihilation of public officials`. ``You better acquire some integrity in a hurry judge boy or you`re gonna have to drop down and gimme 40 in double quick time``. Hah !!

To bring back `patriotic fervor` the army will instruct all and sundry to refrain from indulging in `unpatriotic` actions. `Unpatriotic` as defined by your friendly neighborhood army official on duty. Bye Bye free press!!

I could go on and on. The fact is nowhere but nowhere has a `benevolent dictatorship` existed. It`s an oxymoron if ever there was one! We are all frustrated that things have not turned out to our expectations, but 50 years is not that immense a epoch in the life of a people. Especially not for a people that have existed for thousands of years.

The mythical `super age` for us regrettably has always lied in the past. People still talk of `Ram Rajya` as the ideal form of government. The whole `benevolent dictatorship` fad is nothing but a `Ram Rajya` hangover. An extremely talented, wise, fair and foresighted ruler leads the masses from abject poverty to glorious prosperity and knowledge in one Moses like maneuver. Well you`d have to be a God to do that and we don`t have any Gods hanging around these days... certainly not in the Indian army.

Its real alluring to wish that some God like Monarch will descend from the heaven and salvage our social ill infested society from brink of disaster. But that`s merely wishful thinking! There is a real simple solution. Bring about prosperity!

Prosperity will mean that every citizen`s standard of living will increase, every citizen will be educated. The government`s coffers will be replete with revenue to be spent to their citizenry`s advantage. Government and quasi-government officials will be well paid and much less susceptible to corruption. Civic consciousness will rise, people will take pride in public property and treat it as their own. Elected officials will be qualified and conscientious. The GDP will rise to such levels that we will have resources to support a billion people.

``Its the economy, stupid``... says Rush Limbaugh, and you have to agree with even him on this one!

And how do you better the economy and bring about prosperity? By turning to martial law? HELL NO!!!

Democracy is an inherently noble ideal. There`s been a lot of talk going on lately in the west about how democracy is primarily a western concept. Scholars in the west feel that the eastern cultures will not accept democracy as an acceptable system because it`s culturally an alien concept.

India should take pride in the fact she has proven them wrong for 50 years and will continue to do so for a long long time. Change comes slowly... but if people have the right intentions, over a few generations a country can bring about a total economic turn around. Did Japan do it with martial law? Of course not!

India is the true last bastion of democracy. If India looses democracy due to ideals as espoused by Veer Kumar, god help planet Earth!

Jai Loktantra

Jai Bharat

I agree with your ideas. I has similar thought when I was a engg. student in India. I supported Jaya Prakash in 1977 to dislodge Congress from Power but Janata did the same. My question is that how much honesty can you count on Army or defense personel. Unless and Until you find a real honest nationalist with no present or past self to fulfil, its gonna be real foolish to expect much from a general who may have a broad interest to look after. Another thing, when the whole world is moving towards democracy, it will be a very hard sell to the rest of the world. It may be easy to kill the democracy but very difficult torevive it. If you can look into the statistics, most of the indian leaders are ruling the country because they have control over a bunch of illeterate mass Who does what they want. Still nearly 50% of rural folks vote only on the name Gandhi. Till majority of India is educated and understands the value of their voting right, it will be difficult. So, may be wait another 25 ys and you can see the changes.

The viewpoint expressed in this posting are dangerous, subversive, antinational and, thank God and our democracy, thoroughly permissible. It is a feature of the democracy that has been so effortlessly trashed above that it can be torn apart by people with viewpoints such as the author holds.

The fact is under martial law this freedom might - no, WOULD not be available. Nowhere has martial law solved more problems than it has caused.

Moreover, when the author, in his sadly misguided manner, babbles of the honesty of the Army as compared to those other Indian institutions that are only to easy to disparage, he overlloks the truth that it is only the fact that the army does not possess civilian power that prevents it from being the morass of corruption and inefficiency that most other wings of government appear to be.

Finally, who can tell how efficient or corrupt the Army really is? Its not as if its accounts are audited by the Comptroller-General. You shouldnt let the fact that people have died while doing what is, all sadi and done, their duty, affect your judgment in this childish manner.

We cannot get rule of law by breaking the law ourself. The solution does not lie in setting up another set of people (the military) to be the power over us. The later suggestion of getting organized, neighborhood by neighborhood, is probably the only way.

-arun gupta

RE: MacGupta

If only politicans were half as respectful to the Constitution Of India, as you are, we would never be having this discussion.

Instead of critising VeerKumar, you should offer your own suggestions. If you advocate pacifisim, (wait and everything will becomes OK), then what about the irreversible damage that is getting caused while we wait and watch ? (Extinction of entire species of animals, eradication of habitats and entire eco systems, depletion of ground water and forest cover.)

I like democracy but only when it works FOR the people and not when it works only to fill the pockets of those who are in power.

RE: VeerKumar

You asked for concrete steps. I feel that one must start from his or her own neighbourhood.

-- Start a residents association (or join one if it already exisits).

-- Initiate discussions with local government bodies like the muncipal corporation, on local environmental issues. (like planting tress, having a clean and green colony etc)

-- If a neighbour faces corrupition from the local govt, take action against the erring officer through the association.

These are very practical solutions (I know cause I did them)that one can take, to get started. They not only help give hope to people, but they also ensure that one valiant individual is not made to face the ire of the entire establishment, when that individual is fighting for his rights.

AD

To Veer Kumar :

A cynic would take the view that I presented; but I try (not always successful) not to be a cynic.

To me, any dialogue that respects a certain ground rule is always welcome. The rule is that the Constitution of India be respected. The Constitution itself can be amended, but only following rules given in the Constitution.

This in particular rules out a martial law administration.

-arun gupta

correction to reply#30

In reply#30 I mentioned KPS Gill as the Chief election commissioner. Actually it is (I think) M.S. Gill who is the election commissioner.

KPS being the former police chief of Punjab, famous butt pincher and also president of Indian Hockey Federation.

Ashish

re:Truth

I have to disagree about the motion of confidence. If I were in Vajpayee`s position I would rather get a motion of confidence passed than have a discussion on a motion of no-confidence primarily because the discussion will be from a positive angle in the first case (achievements rather than failures). I am not absolving the president of bias or accusing him of it. I have to concede that my analysis is purely theoretical. In practice, given the meagre achievements of any govt. in India I guess they would rather counter-attack upon being attacked by a no-confidence motion- as name calling and heckling is easier:)- than defend their work through a confidence vote.

Ashish

re: macgupta

Arun,

I have to whole heartedly agree with you. You are right on target. You have perfectly articulated what I too have thought about all this nonsense about benevolent dictatorship and supposed decay because of lower classes coming up. Whenever I have heard this, it is from the middle aged manager types and its echo can be found in a segment of the younger population, mainly male from the exclusive upper classes (they will also proudly tell you that).

Ashish

re: Truth

I look forward to your article on devolution. I think it is better to increase the powers of the states (which are already not insignificant) than increase the number of representatives at the center. If we increase the number of representatives by say four times the Lok Sabha will become unwieldy (more paper snatching, mic throwing, etc.). I would rather see it increased to around 600 members from the current 545. Influence of the states can be increased by the Rajya Sabha which can be increased to about 400 (the norms for the nominated members need to be better specified to avoid getting just film stars). Most developmental activity should indeed be taken up at the state level as should revenue collection (that may improve income tax collection). The reason for the centralization in the 50s and 60s was perhaps because of the lack of good administrators at the state level and later on it was done by Indira Gandhi just to cling on to power. Both these problems are non-existent today with an increase in the number of educated and with the current coalition politics.

About the motion to dissolve, I think this route needs to be open if there is a case when there is endless squabbling in Parliament. I think nobody will perform in the first two years if they are guaranteed five years. On the other hand if they have to vote to dissolve and the voting is published then the members will need to explain to their constituents why they did so in say the first year itself. At present they all say that they don`t want dissolution, so in all likelyhood they wont vote to dissolve (especially, if the vote is open). Currently everybody just raises their hands saying that all this is beyond their control while at the same time saying that they didn`t want this to happen. The PM also blames everything on the structure of the mandate and it`s only the president who has to keep working to fix a govt. for the people even as those supposedly about to run it behave like children (like Jayalalitha). So such a motion to replace alongwith a non-binding (on the president) and open (to the public) motion to dissolve would I believe provide stability while keeping flexibility.

About two stage voting, I too was quite sceptical about it when I first heard about MS Gill supporting such a plan. But after giving it some thought I believe the benefits far outweigh some of the disadvantages. I will make an attempt to give some reasons why I think so.

If a person (say A) gets 35% in the first round and let`s say the person (B) coming second gets 30%. In the run-off most of the voters turning up will be those who voted for these candidates and the results will be the same. In case A is someone like Oliver North (to take an American example) all the ``other`` voters 65% (from the first round) will turn up to vote against him. Now considering the case when A is a ``minority`` candidate (maybe belonging to the middle class- to take a secular example). I guess your concern as well as mine is that the biased segment of the ``majority`` community (poorer classes) will turn up in full force (which was probably divided in the first round) to deny him office. This may happen for a few years (if at all) in a few regions of India but with the experience of the past fifty years I guess the electorate is quite well aware that such voting will only get them a bad representative. Communal alliances will still work in this system (I do not consider them completely bad as they afford suppressed communities an opportunity to fight back) but now they will need to get 51% instead of just 20-30 that they aim for now. This will force them to think *more * about progress than at present. More about increasing the pie (as they have to take care of a larger part of the population) than just increasing the share of the fraction they represent.

Ashish

India is a great country, not just because it has an over 7,000 year history of civilization, sacrifices, mistakes, victories, violence, peace, and survival (all combined in am amazingly colorful way), but because it has remained a vibrant democratic society over the past 50 years when the world has been changing at a much faster pace. The way we have upheld our secularism and social ideals as well as brought about social change shows that we certainly know how to administer our vast and diverse nation.

Sure, we have our problems. Every country has its own set of problems. So, what`s the solution? Martial law? Naah! Look around, look at other developing countries that have had decades of martial law.

Our problem is not as complex as it appears. We simply are a nation of extremely talented people ruled by a bunch of (mostly) untalented people. Education is key to getting rid of this. In the years to come, this will be resolved. In the meantime, we must do our work of nation-building to the best of our abilities and influence others around us to move in the same direction.

Re Electoral reforms, vote to replace etc:

Regarding the suggestions about ways in which some improvements can be brought about into electoral practice: I appreciate the intentions, and the serious concern about a measure of stability, at least to avoid the huge recurring public expenditure on conducting elections. However, whatever difficulties we now face - are they something calling for a solution merely at this level of FORM, or do they indicate very serious underlying problems? And how would the latter be addressed?

I am raising difficult questions. I feel the questions are pertinent.

I do not claim to have THE answer. We could try to probe them together. I value all that we have. I grieve the needless and immense suffering. I would like to be part of change, towards a humane future.

Regards,

VeerKumar

Re Arun Gupta:

Thank you for clarifying your views, and also providing us food for thought through the U Penn study you referred to.

Dear friend, I hope you will accept (in the spirit of the exhortation in your first message) that we do not have any fundamental differences. Something that I may have said has suggested to you that I am a cynical manipulator from the privileged class, contemptuously bent upon thwarting the very gains that ordinary people`s acceptance and utilisation of the democratic system has brought them. Heaven forbid!

Whatever such classes, or anyone else, may do, like earth, water, fire, wind and space, India takes all of that and yet sustains, and her humble folk, still see off haughty regimes and mores!

But for how long will one accept that a privileged section gets virtually free and unlimited supplies of water, while people continue to die, and, perhaps worse, become severely debilitated, through consuming unclean water? And suffer ignominious privations in seeking to get this basic need?

I entirely endorse your last comments. The power of the vote is one thing that ordinary Indians have, and they do try to use this shrewdly to advance their interests.

However, while appreciating the U Penn study (which merits serious examination by those concerned about India), I would also beg to add that if one was really committed to understanding Indian reality (towards constructive action), then one should also try to spend as much time as possible within that milieu - say, in villages, or small towns, or large workers` settlement in the big cities. It is such places that make up the majority of voters / votes. Then we ourselves could come up with live and insightful observations, which could then also go towards constructive action, to strengthen democracy, and improve quality of living.

I might mention here that I was involved in a study (1997-98), looking at Power, Leadership, Cooperation and Conflict among the Poor. If you are interested I could share the findings. If you can trust me, then I could also share other experiences, regarding popular movements and their relation to electoral democracy.

(Incidentally, the armed forces in India should also be viewed as a vital institution in the democratic context. The current chief of army staff is the son of a J.C.O. With the elite classes forsaking careers in the defence forces, it is people from more humble backgrounds who have come to fill the officer cadre. This is something that needs celebrating.)

But first of all we need to get into a fraternal spirit of dialogue and mutual learning - based on a common commitment to a humane future for our fellow-countrymen / women, and a willingness to undertake honest self-examination. I wish it were possible to meet you directly and clear the air. Let`s be partners please, not adversaries, especially when there is nothing to be adversarial about!

Regards,

VeerKumar