An Open Letter to Gen. Pervaiz Musharaff

very `smooth` writeup..let us look inward as well..if you can help some one to return all the excise & incometax that has been evaded to this date for whom your ``illustrated father`` is working ..the country from this recovery will be able to pay most of its debts...NO JOKE..this is what the country is plauged with...sorry moeen not your fault..but just to bring the point home..our fabric has been corrupted to no end...

Re. Shaheen_V

Post #111



It is quite apparent that posts #s 98&100 haven`t caught your attention. Do see them if you have not yet.

How dare you make a death threat to individuals who express their opinion? How dare you?

And how did the Chowk editors/managers/ moderators/webmasters let your criminally allusive death threat be posted?

Not only that. I have gone through the entirety of posts and found not one word of condemnation against that threat anywhere, in any of them. What a shame.

Listen mister/(Ms.), if you ever utter such words again I shall be the first to report you to the police. I know where your post originated. So be kind to yourself and do not repeat such veiled or open death threats again. Ever! For all I know, you maybe writing such dross to me next. Only, I will not be as charitable as Moen and Rahal; or the rest of the participants in the discussion. I am a person of cool thought.

I almost never get angry (mad), but you have riled me up so much with your idiocy that I shall never forgive you for it.

Your khair`khawah and dua`go,

Sohni_Dharti_

Well first of all u are talking about the constitution of pakistan,tel me what was necessary

the constitution or the country if there is no pakistan what will the constitution do??.Had that palne crashed u just think what would have happened???? the army would have replicated and might have killed all the ``PEOPLE`` invovled in

this act.What will be the position of Pakistan under that position?Who would have been the next

leader?? ahhh this would have created another dispute and these circumustances kead to civil war

I personally think that u are a big and BLIND supporter of nawaz sharif.

THe second thing u r suitting in america enjoying life and u r talking about pakistan just come her live for a few days and then only u wil know whwta shouldbe dona nad what was right and what the people of pakistan wanted.

WHy the people in karachi ,lahore,peshawar distributed sweets and weer happy on this act

bcoz the majority wated this and the makority support and believe in army.

The most important thing!! which democracy are u talking about han only 30% votes were casted this means that 70% people of pakistan dont at all want any of these(NAWAZ & BAYNAZIR etc etc) to be the ruler!!! so just answer this question if u can

and i will accept all rubbish what u have said

Hello, & Good day,

Mueen & Batlay,

I`m an American by Birth - a muslim by virtue of my DAD`s religion - Living in Pakistan since 1989. Been travelling in Pakistan every now & then. Have seen the Lowest form of life and been among the elites of the Power corridors for apporx a decade.

The more powerful they are the most Dirt they become. The democracy for which you two seems to be most sympathetic is not democracy its show of Power from a lowest eb of humanity - Greed, Lust and revenge is the form of Govt. which the Inept politicians practice. Basic Govt. In Pakistan is run by the Beaurucrates - The Secratries and the Ministries. A Cabinet member of the ruling Govt is helpless if the Secratary running his Ministry is adamant for - NOT File Goes ahead - sort of attitude.

When was last you two tasted the system of Pakistan - when did you two really travelled in PIA`s economy class and suffered the humiliation of disgusting crew members -

You Two seems to have been enjoying the pure US life having least idea what was going on in Pakistan. Nawaz Shareef was conspiring for a GREATER Punjab togetherwith Khalistan People in Canada - For Him Pakistan would be from Shimla to Hasan Abdal, - He humiliated Pakistan Defence forces over number of times in past 30 months, thereby creating a crack in the integrity and the unity of the whole Army.

What he was to achieve, by ordering the plane not to land in Pakistan - was a different story.. will be narrated - next week... stay tuned

I have read your `open` letter and all the responses to it so far (Oct. 26, 00:1:50). I couldn`t with you more. You deserve qudos for it.

However, it appears to me that your letter may have been too erudite for the understanding of the grass-root, dirt-level person. Their responses are mostly venomous, inane, asanine and mostly insanely dismissive.

Next time if you write a letter of this nature keep it at the `left-right, left-right` level so that at least the tin soldier understands it.

Greetings from Sohny Dharty

Sohny Dharty

i ll ask these traitors, moin and rahal, how much money did u take from india? thats why u are so staunchly criticiZING THE most respected person in pakistan right now and his institution, which is the best of all organizations in the country.

do think before you speak or your death will come much more quickly than u expect.

Pu LI,

I liked your observation, western education obtained by the children of pak landlords deny them of social awareness, and leads to the continuance of fuedal mentality. That probably explains a lot of the pak postings. I also realise that most pakistanis go to US paying their way. while most from india go with some financial aid from the US. Of course the integrity of the indian education still ensures that the rich duds cannot make it in the IITs and other prestiges institutions.

How will you explain the nehrus and the gandhis, sam pitroda of modern times, and several of my own class mates who have left the US to do some thing in india. Of course, not out of great patriotism, but didnt want to bring the children up in that society, or wanted positions `seniour` to what they had in the US.

Re jay #108:

The large landholders would have been primarily in the states of West Bengal, Bihar, UP, Maharashtra, Gujarat, etc. The southern states had different problems than these.

Travancore-Cochin (later merged into Kerala), Mysore (merged into Karnataka), Hyderabad (marged into Andhra) and Pudukkottai (meged into Tamil Nadu) were the princely states in the south. Here land was never titled to the tiller, primarily the ownership of land was supposed to rest with the princes/ruling families. With the abolition of princely states, the land settlement acts in these states took away the ``state lands`` and distributed them to the tillers. The exceptions were the Poligars (palayakkarans) of southern Tamil Nadu who had surrendered all their rights to the British in the late 1700s and who were treated as zamindars by the British, not princes, though these Poligars styled themselves Rajas, such as the Raja of Ettayapuram or Ramanathapuram. Of these, the latter had very substantial holdings of land in excess of 100 square miles which was taken away in the land reforms.

Portions Bengal, Bihar, etc., were given away to jagirdars and zamindars by the British so as to reduce the burden of collecting agricultiral taxes and to establish an aristocracy with a vested interest in supporting the British. These zamindars virtually were kings over their lands because of their immense wealth. While the Zamidari Abolition Act took away those lands that could be clearly identified through land records as leased land, there were also large landholders who owned the land and Vinoba Bhave was targetting these people in his Bhoo-dhan (Gift of Land) movement.

To this day you will find landlords holding a hundred acres or more in the fertile deltas of Godavari and Krishna in Andhra and Kaveri in Tamil Nadu. These large landholders in Tamil Nadu were primarily Brahmins (who used to call themselves zamindars and mirasdars but not really so in the legal sense) and khammas in Andhra. In Tamil Nadu, the children of such landholders took to Western-style education in the professions and stayed in the city, forcing their elders to sell off their lands just as in Kerala. In Andhra, the fact that land is very valuable is keenly appreciated by the younger generation and so you do not see land changing hands from the formerly privileged classes to the tillers. Hence the continued Naxalite insurrection in Andhra.

The problem Pakistan faces is that of zamindars who hold tens of thousands of acres. These owners have the money to buy off the politicians and keep land reforms at bay. You will find that their children are educated in the UK and the USA (as opposed to the Namboodris of Kerala who went off to get their education in Trivandrum) but a Western education does not necessarily inculcate any sense of social justice. To them, a Western education is equivalent to shopping at Nieman-Marcus or Harrods and that lifestyle can be maintained only by holding on to their lands.

Unless Pakistan breaks up these large landholdings, Pakistan has no hope of enfranchising the peasants.

The other interesting thing is that the law in India requires the crops to be divided 60:40, with 60% going to the tiller and 40% to the landlord. (I believe this was later raised to 80:20 but I may be wrong on this point). Even though the peasantry in Kerala and Tamil Nadu were uneducated in the 1950s, the Communists and fellow leftists in Kerala and Tamil Nadu raised the awareness of the peasants as to their rights. Hence, more money flowed to the tillers and their children were able to afford education, thus giving rise to higher literacy rates in these two southern states compared to Andhra and Karnataka which stayed longer under Congress rule with more conservative governments. True land reform can thus be seen to open up the route to a more literate society.

If Pakistan were to enact such a law and the peasants are able to hold on to 60% of the crop yields, there may be some hope for them even if the waderas keep their large landholdings. But the waderas with their money can buy off any attempt at land reform. Thus, the first step should be to take away the land from the waderas and the like and distribute it to the tillers.

Pu Li,

Thanks for the info, unfortunately i hail from a place where zamindars, as you describe them were not there, they were simply large land owners who got the land from the kings, i believe. Since there is some interest in the chowk about the indian land reform, may be you can clarify. Who were the targets of vinobas bhoodan movement, may be they were land owners.

The land cieling acts of andhra and tamilnadu were ineffectve because of the ;loop holes and many transfered lands before they came into effect. Then the governments were chasing `benami` transactions with out much success.

As usual, kerala was an exception, they simply ligislated the land for the tiller act. Many of the farmers where in a share cropping arrangement where in half the crop output had to be given to the land lord who takes no part in the farming. These arrangements were undocumented, and ligislation simply gave the land to the tiller, basically stating that the crop should not be shared, and the land will revert to the land owner, subject to the relevant land cieling act.

The namboodiris of kerala became poor overnight, they had no experience in farming, and in many cases with the substancial holdings legally permitted, the second onslaught of education and westernisation ,`killed`, them of.

No, but that is incorrect xinfinity(#397). They do know how to wipe their asses.

They are beneath contempt, granted, because they are in the U.S. Tell me though why are you becoming `foreign`? You use a computer, internet, software; you use their electricity, their language, however incompetently; use their expressions eg. `ass-hole`, their net terminology `u`,`ur`,`urs`,`r`, and wear their clothes i.e., jeans, jeanjackets (sand washed! or else `threaded` exactly the way the Americans do). We watch CNN (again, T.V., being an American invention just as the VCR [vhs mode anyway)], all the Indian movie channels, satellite telecasts.

We have KFC (it was Kentucky FRIED chicken in the U.S., but was changed to KFC when `fried` became a dirty word; we say it with the patrician air as if it were Gucci chicken;), McDonald`s as if we never knew chapli or tikia kebab; we have that food of the gods, the Pizza at pizza hut. Did we not have missi roti? It was also a full meal -- for the rich and poor alike. Think about it.

Get away from the hobgoblin of fighting with nonsense. Think. And, incidentally do not corrupt idioms and proverbs. `Not knowing how to wash one`s arse`, is a punjabi and urdu expression. Don`t anglasize it. Just doesn`t sound right, you will agree. Let`s hear some sensible words of logical `proof` from you.

Respectfully submitted,

MIII

peccavi (#105)

*I * will reverse the STEPS: (fantasy)

The plane flew for extra 45 minutes, according to all sources that count, over and around Karachi. Within Pakistan, it was asked to land at Nawabshah and Sindhry. Let us suppose the runways were not long enough for the landing of the plane at those places.

Any plane (inculdind the 300 Bus, particularly the Bus) was able to reach Quetta or Multan within that time with more fuel to spare, and land. Permission or no permission.

a. The reason was that musharraf`s hand-picked and appointed corps commanders and their `men` had arranged only at Karachi to `rescue` the musharaf fellow. And the civil authorities knew about these. That`s why //they// didn`t want the plane to land at Karachi.

b. Check with the two pilots as to who kept them from going to an airport other than Karachi? They *are * going to talk about it one day --if they do not meet a fatal accident before that.

c. Why weren`t the pleas of over a dozen pssengers, sitting with or around the musharaf fellow, for landing at anothe airport, paid heed to?

Finally, when only seven minutes` worth of fuel was left (?) etc. ...

Ask yourself who held those `250 pax` hostage? And how would you react to the information that my father and my brother-in-law were passengers in that plane?

Can we consider the following scenario?

In the plane: musharaf KNEW that he has been dismissed. That he will probably be taken into `protective` custody; but for, he KNEW, the army arranged rescue at the Karachi airport. The plane, therefore, MUST land at Karachi if he wanted to save his own hide and those of others who had been promised goodies since October 1998. (If anybody thinks that this coup was spontaneous then they have another think coming to them).

Please inform yourselves of `dis-information`.

And finally, not all the people who write unfavourably about the coup are in the U.S. $/or D.C. This is a cop-out from adducing good reasoning.

Jeevay

Hello mb & rs:

``IT IS WISE TO SEE A BATTLE FROM A DISTANT HILL``

great open letter to the General.

``This is something bigger than you, us, your colleagues in the army, or the often corrupt

politicians.``

So General Musharraf was defending only often? corrupt & despotic politicans and civillian dictators in the course of his duty & this is bigger than all of us? How noble! Do come to PK and experience ``this bigger than all of us`` democratic euphoria instead of making academic statements from the coziness and distance of Washington DC where everyone has good intentions including the ones that lead to... HEAVEN?

``No politicizing, causing dissension within the army, no amount of your critiques of the

government going unheeded, no economic instability justifies what you have done.``

How tolerant of you two in Washington DC! Come and speak your mind here and lead the people out of the quagmire. Sweet are the distant drums.



``You must reverse your steps,``

OK lets reverse the steps and go back to Gen Musharraf in the air with 250 pax in the plane & 6 mins of fuel left, along with you two saviours of democracy in PK. Would you have prevented the Gen from landing in KHI or prefereed to crash in the name of democracy? If yes pls hurry back to PK on the first available flight preferably PIA and lead the silent majority to victory & rescue democracy from the evil doers. I need leaders of your calibre to follow. I am convinced. But hurry time is of the essence. The millennium is drawing to a close. The advice you are giving to the General about resigning and joining politics is equally valid for you brave honourable gentlemen.

unless of course....

Re jay #94:

[In your moving post you mentioned land reform, which at least in india was not embraced at the national level.]

Not true. The so-called zamindars, jagirdars, inamdars, mirasdars, etc., were set up by the British and paid a fixed annual rent in return for the land. These zamindars were given government lands in return for supporting the British government and had never paid for it. The Indian Parliament passed the Zamindari Abolition Act in order to distribute these lands to the peasants. The law was challenged and the Supreme Court ruled it unconsitutional on the basis that it took away proprty without paying just compensation. The first amendment to the Indian Constitution was then enacted which enabled the Zamindari Abolition Act to continue in effect. Land reform was the FIRST PRIORITY of independent India.

[That is the death of a feudal lord, a land lord. It is urbanisation and education that is killing the land lords of india, not really any land reforms.]

This is true in the sense that those who owned land from tens to hundreds of acres (these were never zamindars and truly owned the land, though a few of them styled themseves zamindars and mirasdars to inflate their own rank) are finding it since the 1970s to manage their land when their children, having obtained a Western style education in engineering or medicine, have no interest in farming. These people are selling off their lands, thus effecting a second land reform caused by societal forces.

batlay & saeed:

how pained you sound in the USA having no idea about PK except to give vent to your anti-military feelings and pro-democracy stance from a distance better to have democracy set aside from time to time than to have no country left to cry about

come back here and tell the people of their rights and march to rescue your beloved democracy instead of enlightening us with your barbs against the takeover. the deposed are shocked by the absence of their supporters perhaps you can muster some?

sadna #151

“After all if individuals do well for themselves, society does well, too?”

HOW are individuals doing well is the key question… if at the expense of majority (by directly or indirectly denying access to opportunities)…nop!… society would not do well – same pie, unequal distribution….if everyone is getting a “fair go” (i.e. it’s an egalitarian society) and some individuals are doing well as a result, yep!…..society would do well…..because they are “genuinely” contributing in making a bigger pie.

“Re Pakistan, the lack of a stable political system must make it all the more frustrating. Young people instead of having a place in the scheme of things at least as a voting demographic, have to `seize the initiative`(whatever that means), a very difficult thing to do. `Jihadis` at least have guns and mullahs to back them.”

In few words, you have skillfully sketched the picture of what most young people in Pakistan have to deal with…

India bashing, Pakistan bashing, silly wars, stupid intelligence/counter intelligence activities, heinous tit for tat terrorist activities, childish claims of cultural/moral/racial superiority etc. etc… are all counterproductive and stupid… but some individuals do very well because of all this…. and we wait for their wealth to trickle down to us :)

My God, it was in front of me and I didn`t get it!

The problem of most Pakistanis, independent of how badly do they assault the English language, is unbounded, immeasurable, and unfathomably deep, nay, profound, idiocy.

Kash60 (#98) enquires how much were the two paid for writing the `open letter... .`? Since `its` letter is also partisan, 180 degrees opposite -- and vicious, to boot -- probably it did not occur to it that it was open to the same question. Somebody knowledgeable please tell me if this is called `begging the question`?