An Open Letter to Gen. Pervaiz Musharaff

ali1 #46 you write ``What I find ``quite funny`` is the way in which some middle aged Pakistani males become so affable when dealing with this person with the handle ``Sadna``.``

You`ll understand how it is possible for people to have a friendly discussion when you have grown up to be four or five years old. Meanwhile, have fun in the playpen with Jay, and try not to wet one another too much.

The writers` mindset is indicative of their Americanisation. May i ask them when was the last time they visited Pakistan? Having lived in USA for over two decades. i am quite familiar with their kind who gauge everything according to their newly found enlightment in the US. Alas, they remain ignorant of the ground realities that are foreign to US. Their statement that Gen Musharraf has destroyed the most sacred document i.e. the Constitution is proof of their naivete. It is also proof of their lack of understanding about the tragic state of national affairs at home (Pakistan). I humbly suggest they read up on the attack on Supreme Court in Nov,97 by the goons of Muslim League to save their despot leader Nawaz Sharif. The Constitution is nothing more than a piece of paper if it is not safeguarded by the Supreme Court. Pakistan had descended into a state of anarchy and lawlessness which the writers cannot fathom sitting in the US Capitol. While their sentiments are innocent, their understanding is flawed. They need to come and live in Pakistan for a year or two before passing judgement on Army action which has been welcomed, nay hailed as a blessing, by 99% Pakistanis. And we all know that the voice of the people is the voice of God!

WasSalaam.

I am surprised at the support some of us are giving to the military take over. The arguement is that our economy was too bad and our elected leaders too corrupt. What are we saying. Are we not humans, Are we donkeys that we need a danda to behave. If we arre donkeys no military will ever change us. A donkey will remain a donkey. Listen be a man, Be a good muslim. Believe in yourself. Oppose military. We are not donkeys we are temporarily behaving like one and the world is treating us like that.

If we think that parvez is so smart why does not he stand for elections and let us all see how does he fair. The elections have to be free. The military force will never dream of it on one excuse or the other. So my countrymen wake up and be humans

Hi Mueen Batlay and Rahal Saeed,

Please come down from the clouds of unrealistic existance. You probably have never lived in Pakistan so without knowing the facts, you are riding your high horse of impersonal criticizm. When basic things in life become unaffordable for the common people, food, clothing and shelter are taxed by corrupt politicians so that they can build palaces and Swiss bank accounts, democracy is the last thing on people`s mind. So please, do some research on things like the price of normal use items and goods in Pakistan and the taxes levied on hard working people by a corrupt and unjust `democratic` rulers and then tell everyone how many lives must be sacrificed to serve the demagoges of democracy. By the way your high horse called `impersonal criticizm` may need new shoes by the time you finish your research.

Hi

Pervaiz Musharif is a self proclaimed King.

Accusing the Ex Prime Minister of Hijacking and endangering the life of passengers is an attempt to save his own neck from the charges of treason.

Than following the same policies of the disposed Prime Minister confirms the accuracy of his policies.

The General is so attracted by the power that he wishes to stay as the ruler of Pakistan till either he is killed by his Master`s or removed by the public like Ayub Khan or Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.

The cam conditions in Pakistan are being considered as acceptance of the Army Government is a false implication of the international media. God forbid if the public comes to the street it going to be civil war.

Than again the one sided views of the newspapers confirms that the media is either being used by the army or are on the pay role of the army.



Pervaiz Musharif is nether accepted by the public nor has been accepted by the Pakistani people.

A bold letter but will never be acted upon. No military ruler has ever retraced his steps unless made to run for life. People in Pakistan have never had the guts to stop military rules nor they have now.Today is not a cold war era and the west has no use for Pakistan as a base. Parvez has given a golden opportunity to India to mould the world opinion against Pakistan and in the process may even isolate them from important world bodies. Wonder how long it will take parvez to learn the ground realities of world politics.

I am in total agreement with what you wrote, I will love to paticipate in the struggle for restoration of democracy.

very `smooth` writeup..let us look inward as well..if you can help some one to return all the excise & incometax that has been evaded to this date for whom your ``illustrated father`` is working ..the country from this recovery will be able to pay most of its debts...NO JOKE..this is what the country is plauged with...sorry moeen not your fault..but just to bring the point home..our fabric has been corrupted to no end...

Re. Shaheen_V

Post #111



It is quite apparent that posts #s 98&100 haven`t caught your attention. Do see them if you have not yet.

How dare you make a death threat to individuals who express their opinion? How dare you?

And how did the Chowk editors/managers/ moderators/webmasters let your criminally allusive death threat be posted?

Not only that. I have gone through the entirety of posts and found not one word of condemnation against that threat anywhere, in any of them. What a shame.

Listen mister/(Ms.), if you ever utter such words again I shall be the first to report you to the police. I know where your post originated. So be kind to yourself and do not repeat such veiled or open death threats again. Ever! For all I know, you maybe writing such dross to me next. Only, I will not be as charitable as Moen and Rahal; or the rest of the participants in the discussion. I am a person of cool thought.

I almost never get angry (mad), but you have riled me up so much with your idiocy that I shall never forgive you for it.

Your khair`khawah and dua`go,

Sohni_Dharti_

Well first of all u are talking about the constitution of pakistan,tel me what was necessary

the constitution or the country if there is no pakistan what will the constitution do??.Had that palne crashed u just think what would have happened???? the army would have replicated and might have killed all the ``PEOPLE`` invovled in

this act.What will be the position of Pakistan under that position?Who would have been the next

leader?? ahhh this would have created another dispute and these circumustances kead to civil war

I personally think that u are a big and BLIND supporter of nawaz sharif.

THe second thing u r suitting in america enjoying life and u r talking about pakistan just come her live for a few days and then only u wil know whwta shouldbe dona nad what was right and what the people of pakistan wanted.

WHy the people in karachi ,lahore,peshawar distributed sweets and weer happy on this act

bcoz the majority wated this and the makority support and believe in army.

The most important thing!! which democracy are u talking about han only 30% votes were casted this means that 70% people of pakistan dont at all want any of these(NAWAZ & BAYNAZIR etc etc) to be the ruler!!! so just answer this question if u can

and i will accept all rubbish what u have said

Hello, & Good day,

Mueen & Batlay,

I`m an American by Birth - a muslim by virtue of my DAD`s religion - Living in Pakistan since 1989. Been travelling in Pakistan every now & then. Have seen the Lowest form of life and been among the elites of the Power corridors for apporx a decade.

The more powerful they are the most Dirt they become. The democracy for which you two seems to be most sympathetic is not democracy its show of Power from a lowest eb of humanity - Greed, Lust and revenge is the form of Govt. which the Inept politicians practice. Basic Govt. In Pakistan is run by the Beaurucrates - The Secratries and the Ministries. A Cabinet member of the ruling Govt is helpless if the Secratary running his Ministry is adamant for - NOT File Goes ahead - sort of attitude.

When was last you two tasted the system of Pakistan - when did you two really travelled in PIA`s economy class and suffered the humiliation of disgusting crew members -

You Two seems to have been enjoying the pure US life having least idea what was going on in Pakistan. Nawaz Shareef was conspiring for a GREATER Punjab togetherwith Khalistan People in Canada - For Him Pakistan would be from Shimla to Hasan Abdal, - He humiliated Pakistan Defence forces over number of times in past 30 months, thereby creating a crack in the integrity and the unity of the whole Army.

What he was to achieve, by ordering the plane not to land in Pakistan - was a different story.. will be narrated - next week... stay tuned

I have read your `open` letter and all the responses to it so far (Oct. 26, 00:1:50). I couldn`t with you more. You deserve qudos for it.

However, it appears to me that your letter may have been too erudite for the understanding of the grass-root, dirt-level person. Their responses are mostly venomous, inane, asanine and mostly insanely dismissive.

Next time if you write a letter of this nature keep it at the `left-right, left-right` level so that at least the tin soldier understands it.

Greetings from Sohny Dharty

Sohny Dharty

i ll ask these traitors, moin and rahal, how much money did u take from india? thats why u are so staunchly criticiZING THE most respected person in pakistan right now and his institution, which is the best of all organizations in the country.

do think before you speak or your death will come much more quickly than u expect.

Pu LI,

I liked your observation, western education obtained by the children of pak landlords deny them of social awareness, and leads to the continuance of fuedal mentality. That probably explains a lot of the pak postings. I also realise that most pakistanis go to US paying their way. while most from india go with some financial aid from the US. Of course the integrity of the indian education still ensures that the rich duds cannot make it in the IITs and other prestiges institutions.

How will you explain the nehrus and the gandhis, sam pitroda of modern times, and several of my own class mates who have left the US to do some thing in india. Of course, not out of great patriotism, but didnt want to bring the children up in that society, or wanted positions `seniour` to what they had in the US.

Re jay #108:

The large landholders would have been primarily in the states of West Bengal, Bihar, UP, Maharashtra, Gujarat, etc. The southern states had different problems than these.

Travancore-Cochin (later merged into Kerala), Mysore (merged into Karnataka), Hyderabad (marged into Andhra) and Pudukkottai (meged into Tamil Nadu) were the princely states in the south. Here land was never titled to the tiller, primarily the ownership of land was supposed to rest with the princes/ruling families. With the abolition of princely states, the land settlement acts in these states took away the ``state lands`` and distributed them to the tillers. The exceptions were the Poligars (palayakkarans) of southern Tamil Nadu who had surrendered all their rights to the British in the late 1700s and who were treated as zamindars by the British, not princes, though these Poligars styled themselves Rajas, such as the Raja of Ettayapuram or Ramanathapuram. Of these, the latter had very substantial holdings of land in excess of 100 square miles which was taken away in the land reforms.

Portions Bengal, Bihar, etc., were given away to jagirdars and zamindars by the British so as to reduce the burden of collecting agricultiral taxes and to establish an aristocracy with a vested interest in supporting the British. These zamindars virtually were kings over their lands because of their immense wealth. While the Zamidari Abolition Act took away those lands that could be clearly identified through land records as leased land, there were also large landholders who owned the land and Vinoba Bhave was targetting these people in his Bhoo-dhan (Gift of Land) movement.

To this day you will find landlords holding a hundred acres or more in the fertile deltas of Godavari and Krishna in Andhra and Kaveri in Tamil Nadu. These large landholders in Tamil Nadu were primarily Brahmins (who used to call themselves zamindars and mirasdars but not really so in the legal sense) and khammas in Andhra. In Tamil Nadu, the children of such landholders took to Western-style education in the professions and stayed in the city, forcing their elders to sell off their lands just as in Kerala. In Andhra, the fact that land is very valuable is keenly appreciated by the younger generation and so you do not see land changing hands from the formerly privileged classes to the tillers. Hence the continued Naxalite insurrection in Andhra.

The problem Pakistan faces is that of zamindars who hold tens of thousands of acres. These owners have the money to buy off the politicians and keep land reforms at bay. You will find that their children are educated in the UK and the USA (as opposed to the Namboodris of Kerala who went off to get their education in Trivandrum) but a Western education does not necessarily inculcate any sense of social justice. To them, a Western education is equivalent to shopping at Nieman-Marcus or Harrods and that lifestyle can be maintained only by holding on to their lands.

Unless Pakistan breaks up these large landholdings, Pakistan has no hope of enfranchising the peasants.

The other interesting thing is that the law in India requires the crops to be divided 60:40, with 60% going to the tiller and 40% to the landlord. (I believe this was later raised to 80:20 but I may be wrong on this point). Even though the peasantry in Kerala and Tamil Nadu were uneducated in the 1950s, the Communists and fellow leftists in Kerala and Tamil Nadu raised the awareness of the peasants as to their rights. Hence, more money flowed to the tillers and their children were able to afford education, thus giving rise to higher literacy rates in these two southern states compared to Andhra and Karnataka which stayed longer under Congress rule with more conservative governments. True land reform can thus be seen to open up the route to a more literate society.

If Pakistan were to enact such a law and the peasants are able to hold on to 60% of the crop yields, there may be some hope for them even if the waderas keep their large landholdings. But the waderas with their money can buy off any attempt at land reform. Thus, the first step should be to take away the land from the waderas and the like and distribute it to the tillers.

Pu Li,

Thanks for the info, unfortunately i hail from a place where zamindars, as you describe them were not there, they were simply large land owners who got the land from the kings, i believe. Since there is some interest in the chowk about the indian land reform, may be you can clarify. Who were the targets of vinobas bhoodan movement, may be they were land owners.

The land cieling acts of andhra and tamilnadu were ineffectve because of the ;loop holes and many transfered lands before they came into effect. Then the governments were chasing `benami` transactions with out much success.

As usual, kerala was an exception, they simply ligislated the land for the tiller act. Many of the farmers where in a share cropping arrangement where in half the crop output had to be given to the land lord who takes no part in the farming. These arrangements were undocumented, and ligislation simply gave the land to the tiller, basically stating that the crop should not be shared, and the land will revert to the land owner, subject to the relevant land cieling act.

The namboodiris of kerala became poor overnight, they had no experience in farming, and in many cases with the substancial holdings legally permitted, the second onslaught of education and westernisation ,`killed`, them of.

No, but that is incorrect xinfinity(#397). They do know how to wipe their asses.

They are beneath contempt, granted, because they are in the U.S. Tell me though why are you becoming `foreign`? You use a computer, internet, software; you use their electricity, their language, however incompetently; use their expressions eg. `ass-hole`, their net terminology `u`,`ur`,`urs`,`r`, and wear their clothes i.e., jeans, jeanjackets (sand washed! or else `threaded` exactly the way the Americans do). We watch CNN (again, T.V., being an American invention just as the VCR [vhs mode anyway)], all the Indian movie channels, satellite telecasts.

We have KFC (it was Kentucky FRIED chicken in the U.S., but was changed to KFC when `fried` became a dirty word; we say it with the patrician air as if it were Gucci chicken;), McDonald`s as if we never knew chapli or tikia kebab; we have that food of the gods, the Pizza at pizza hut. Did we not have missi roti? It was also a full meal -- for the rich and poor alike. Think about it.

Get away from the hobgoblin of fighting with nonsense. Think. And, incidentally do not corrupt idioms and proverbs. `Not knowing how to wash one`s arse`, is a punjabi and urdu expression. Don`t anglasize it. Just doesn`t sound right, you will agree. Let`s hear some sensible words of logical `proof` from you.

Respectfully submitted,

MIII

peccavi (#105)

*I * will reverse the STEPS: (fantasy)

The plane flew for extra 45 minutes, according to all sources that count, over and around Karachi. Within Pakistan, it was asked to land at Nawabshah and Sindhry. Let us suppose the runways were not long enough for the landing of the plane at those places.

Any plane (inculdind the 300 Bus, particularly the Bus) was able to reach Quetta or Multan within that time with more fuel to spare, and land. Permission or no permission.

a. The reason was that musharraf`s hand-picked and appointed corps commanders and their `men` had arranged only at Karachi to `rescue` the musharaf fellow. And the civil authorities knew about these. That`s why //they// didn`t want the plane to land at Karachi.

b. Check with the two pilots as to who kept them from going to an airport other than Karachi? They *are * going to talk about it one day --if they do not meet a fatal accident before that.

c. Why weren`t the pleas of over a dozen pssengers, sitting with or around the musharaf fellow, for landing at anothe airport, paid heed to?

Finally, when only seven minutes` worth of fuel was left (?) etc. ...

Ask yourself who held those `250 pax` hostage? And how would you react to the information that my father and my brother-in-law were passengers in that plane?

Can we consider the following scenario?

In the plane: musharaf KNEW that he has been dismissed. That he will probably be taken into `protective` custody; but for, he KNEW, the army arranged rescue at the Karachi airport. The plane, therefore, MUST land at Karachi if he wanted to save his own hide and those of others who had been promised goodies since October 1998. (If anybody thinks that this coup was spontaneous then they have another think coming to them).

Please inform yourselves of `dis-information`.

And finally, not all the people who write unfavourably about the coup are in the U.S. $/or D.C. This is a cop-out from adducing good reasoning.

Jeevay

Hello mb & rs:

``IT IS WISE TO SEE A BATTLE FROM A DISTANT HILL``

great open letter to the General.

``This is something bigger than you, us, your colleagues in the army, or the often corrupt

politicians.``

So General Musharraf was defending only often? corrupt & despotic politicans and civillian dictators in the course of his duty & this is bigger than all of us? How noble! Do come to PK and experience ``this bigger than all of us`` democratic euphoria instead of making academic statements from the coziness and distance of Washington DC where everyone has good intentions including the ones that lead to... HEAVEN?

``No politicizing, causing dissension within the army, no amount of your critiques of the

government going unheeded, no economic instability justifies what you have done.``

How tolerant of you two in Washington DC! Come and speak your mind here and lead the people out of the quagmire. Sweet are the distant drums.



``You must reverse your steps,``

OK lets reverse the steps and go back to Gen Musharraf in the air with 250 pax in the plane & 6 mins of fuel left, along with you two saviours of democracy in PK. Would you have prevented the Gen from landing in KHI or prefereed to crash in the name of democracy? If yes pls hurry back to PK on the first available flight preferably PIA and lead the silent majority to victory & rescue democracy from the evil doers. I need leaders of your calibre to follow. I am convinced. But hurry time is of the essence. The millennium is drawing to a close. The advice you are giving to the General about resigning and joining politics is equally valid for you brave honourable gentlemen.

unless of course....

Re jay #94:

[In your moving post you mentioned land reform, which at least in india was not embraced at the national level.]

Not true. The so-called zamindars, jagirdars, inamdars, mirasdars, etc., were set up by the British and paid a fixed annual rent in return for the land. These zamindars were given government lands in return for supporting the British government and had never paid for it. The Indian Parliament passed the Zamindari Abolition Act in order to distribute these lands to the peasants. The law was challenged and the Supreme Court ruled it unconsitutional on the basis that it took away proprty without paying just compensation. The first amendment to the Indian Constitution was then enacted which enabled the Zamindari Abolition Act to continue in effect. Land reform was the FIRST PRIORITY of independent India.

[That is the death of a feudal lord, a land lord. It is urbanisation and education that is killing the land lords of india, not really any land reforms.]

This is true in the sense that those who owned land from tens to hundreds of acres (these were never zamindars and truly owned the land, though a few of them styled themseves zamindars and mirasdars to inflate their own rank) are finding it since the 1970s to manage their land when their children, having obtained a Western style education in engineering or medicine, have no interest in farming. These people are selling off their lands, thus effecting a second land reform caused by societal forces.

batlay & saeed:

how pained you sound in the USA having no idea about PK except to give vent to your anti-military feelings and pro-democracy stance from a distance better to have democracy set aside from time to time than to have no country left to cry about

come back here and tell the people of their rights and march to rescue your beloved democracy instead of enlightening us with your barbs against the takeover. the deposed are shocked by the absence of their supporters perhaps you can muster some?

sadna #151

“After all if individuals do well for themselves, society does well, too?”

HOW are individuals doing well is the key question… if at the expense of majority (by directly or indirectly denying access to opportunities)…nop!… society would not do well – same pie, unequal distribution….if everyone is getting a “fair go” (i.e. it’s an egalitarian society) and some individuals are doing well as a result, yep!…..society would do well…..because they are “genuinely” contributing in making a bigger pie.

“Re Pakistan, the lack of a stable political system must make it all the more frustrating. Young people instead of having a place in the scheme of things at least as a voting demographic, have to `seize the initiative`(whatever that means), a very difficult thing to do. `Jihadis` at least have guns and mullahs to back them.”

In few words, you have skillfully sketched the picture of what most young people in Pakistan have to deal with…

India bashing, Pakistan bashing, silly wars, stupid intelligence/counter intelligence activities, heinous tit for tat terrorist activities, childish claims of cultural/moral/racial superiority etc. etc… are all counterproductive and stupid… but some individuals do very well because of all this…. and we wait for their wealth to trickle down to us :)

My God, it was in front of me and I didn`t get it!

The problem of most Pakistanis, independent of how badly do they assault the English language, is unbounded, immeasurable, and unfathomably deep, nay, profound, idiocy.

Kash60 (#98) enquires how much were the two paid for writing the `open letter... .`? Since `its` letter is also partisan, 180 degrees opposite -- and vicious, to boot -- probably it did not occur to it that it was open to the same question. Somebody knowledgeable please tell me if this is called `begging the question`?

First of all, let me ask you, when was the last time you were in Pakistan? I think you have been living in the U.S. for too long and have no idea about what`s life is like in Pakistan. You may be right about the fact that the constitution is a sacred document and should be followed at all cost, but given the circumstances in Pakistan, somebody had to do something. I was in Pakistan just a couple months ago, and one of my close friends who has a masters degree was earning $50/month. What do you think of that? The economy is dead, there`s no law and order, the politicians were eating the country with both hands. I am glad at what Musharraf did. I just hope that he makes the right decisions from now on.

So how much were both of you paid to write this rubbish. You talk about a constitution that never existed, it was a whore being used and abused, by whoever came into power...

U mouron, dont make judgement from distant. U might have use some big words from urs US govt. book but u all need to know that an ordinary person on the street do not need all that bull crap beside food, shelter, and stablization in the society. So stop BSing and put ur gray matter (brain) in the sun for a while. URs beloved ass-hole (Nawaz) have looted money from every possible way, killed peoples, let Pakistan down in world arena and u and people like u keep lickin his brown stinky ass.

Actually ur kinda people r beyond help. And YOU and fellows like you r the reason where we standing right now. And not only Nawaz, but that bit.h Benazir, and stupid Altaf all r corrupted. I really wish that General Pervaiz would go one step beyond and would have killed them all like Khoumani did. No body and I mean no body in the political arena is capable and sincere now to rule this country.

What r country need now a big time revolution which can erase all the stupidity and all corrupted people and bring some ambitious mind with very open prespective. And I really wish that u and people like u never go to Pakistan. Right now we all need optimism and constructive thoughts by all mean. Not people like u who even dont know how to wipe ur own ass and start critisizin. Just shut up and stay away from Pakistan.

Re: Ms. Shahnaz-F`s analysis

Shibboleths, cliches and `truths of convenience`, should be given a rest and be eschewed. Surely, our neighbour to the south has the same kind of population as do we. Yet the democracy somehow survives.

In the most `advanced` nations of the world -- considered `ideals` of democracy -- undemocratic instances of actions are in evidence all the time; as are, of course, the uneducated, poor, and uninterested portions in the population.

Democracy, therefore, doesn`t exist because of our elitist pronouncements that uneducated people do not understanding the concept.

Look, analytically, for the viable explanations rather than parorating our crammed modes of stating clichés in the English language.

Mor later.

Sincerely,

Ess

P.S. How, and from where, can one obtain a copy of the Report on Violence Towards Womenn in Pakistan?

Re: Ms. Shahnaz-F`s analysis

Shibboleths, cliches and `truths of convenience`, should be given a rest and be eschewed. Surely, our neighbour to the south has the same kind of population as do we. Yet the democracy somehow survives.

In the most `advanced` nations of the world -- considered `ideals` of democracy -- undemocratic instances of actions are in evidence all the time; as are, of course, the uneducated, poor, and uninterested portions in the population.

Democracy, therefore, doesn`t exist because of our elitist pronouncements that uneducated people do not understanding the concept.

Look, analytically, for the viable explanations rather than parorating our crammed modes of stating clichés in the English language.

Mor later.

Sincerely,

Ess

Saad Khan,

In your moving post you mentioned land reform, which at least in india was not embraced at the national level. But i have been a witness to the colapse of the land lords. The mechanism appear to be simple, and i would appreciate if you could point out why it is not happening in pakistan.

Land lords, they send their children to the best schools, they usually do above average in academics, they get some basic degree, in many cases in engineering, where there are some `fee` paying colleges. They get jobs in the cities, a part of the rural wealth is tranfered to the city to build a large house, the children stay in the cities, eventually the land lord father devides and sells the land to achieve the highest return as he finds it difficult to manage the land in the old age.

That is the death of a feudal lord, a land lord. It is urbanisation and education that is killing the land lords of india, not really any land reforms.

I support Mr. Mueen Batly and Rahal Saeed 100% on their open letter to G. Pervez.

Azizian: I sent the following in response to another situation on this site. I wanted to say it again, so I repeat it below. I owe you another comment, at a later time. Your position is cogent analytical,and logically enticing; so, I shall join you in addressing the traitor.

I think that in view of his oulined agenda yesterday, he seems to intend to stay for a spell; perhaps a minimum of a century, since he has announced that the whole culture, the society, and personalities -- and, of course, the `institutions`, a term he seems to be quite fond of using without understanding as to what they are -- have to change before the `whole of Pakistan` will be out of armed forces` tassallat!

To achieve and accomplish all in his agenda will require quite a few generations. Unlearning, relearning, that sort of thing. And here some thought optimistically that since he had not mentioned 90 days, he will be gone early. The reason he didn`t mention a timetable is that he really wishes to stay, as I said, for a spell.

To outline goals and agendas to be accomplished, rather than a timetable, for his departure, he would remain safer, popular and unassailable. He has learned his lesson from ziaulhaq which the nation has not.

Now, what I said earlier follows:

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

I am an old man. I participated in the struggle for Pakistan 1936 onwards. I love Pakistan no less than I love my children and my life`s

only love, my wife.

You could not imagine me violating the Constitution of Pakistan by taking over the ruling of Pakistan because I love it and the politicians in power were corrupt.

And that is not just because I have only good wishes for the country and no slavishly conditioned soldiers, with armament bought with your money and mine, behind me. I just couldn`t do that because no matter how honest my intentions, no matter how benign, I would still be adictator! I assure you that since I wouldn`t allow such a thought, I am a better person for that.

I have been a man of principle all my life, I don`t drink, nor smoke; don`t play cards, have been a rationally thrifty person, a very good father, a loving husband and a fellow professional , a very popular and congenial colleague; I have been a most civilized person, generous, sympathetic and helpful to humanity and held

in extreme regard by people of my community which included leaders of political parties, ambassadors, cabinet ministers, and electricians,

govt. servants at middle and lower levels and salvation army labourers.

I have served my country richly, without being treacherous, treasonous, and seditious in my acts or thoughts.

That a democratically elected `leader` was dishonest, corrupt, and vindictive is bad Kismet of the country and a reflection of the

corruption of our values and personality characteristics. Very sad. But remediable by the parliament and the ruling political party members

by electing a new leader. In any case, remember, people elect leaders whom they deserve.

But for God`s sake do refrain from telling me that Mirza Musharraf is a better clown than the next one.

I am confident you would agree with me that an individual`s dishonesty is already a matter of public and historical record if that person

violates and degrades the very constitution he/she has taken an oath to defend. No nation, no individual, and certainly, no Pakistani -- in

this case -- should have the minutest personal respect for the seditious person.

To say that he pummeled democracy `to save democracy`, as I am hearing from some, is, when you think about it for a minute, is an inherent logical fallacy. Think about it!

Pakistan will survive despite these treacheries, God willing.

Pakistan, sohni dharty, painda bashad.

Hi Mueen Batlay & Rahal Saeed,

It is true that you feel that miltary should not act in haste, but consider what an average pakistani is feeling toward his country.

In the newspapers the public has welcomed this change. May the Democracy prevail.

Anand

I`d just like to say that I think people who are criticizing the authors on the basis of their names are being quite silly. It`s ridiculous to make judgements about people just because of how they`ve signed this letter, or any other article for that matter. I can`t tell you how many times I`ve had people ask me if I`m Gujerati Indian, just based on my name, when I am actually a Sindhi whose parents argued over whether to call me Binafshe or Mumtaz, and finally settled on Bina as a compromise! Please, fellow Chowkwallas let`s not be so closed minded and petty to condemn people for their names... judge them by what they write instead.

To all my concerned Pakistanis fellows.

Read Pakistan`s Constitution and 14th Amendment to the constitution in particular. If you cry for the demise of constitutional government which gaged its own members from any disagreement with its leadership on the floor of the Parliment does not warant any sympathy for you ignorant zelots.

While Mueen Batlay and Rahal Saeed do have a point, one must realize that the democracy they refer to can only flourish when the citizens are educated or literate or informed enough to understand what it really means.

It is a sad reflection of our country that despite over 50 years of independence, our education level remains below 30% (even that is suspect).

We have had governments that have had complete majority in Parliament and what did they do for the country? The results are there for everyone to see.

I believe it is important to ensure that state control of radio, television and newspapers are completely removed. This would be the first step in ensuring that the people are well informed and if the General can do it -- then so be it.

Secondly, I would suggest to the writers of this article that they should read the report of Violence against Women in Pakistan which has just been released and then write another ``open`` letter to the General. May be that will be more ``realistic`` and will provide the readers with the feeling that the writers are really aware of the ``situation`` in our country and it is not simply rhetoric.

Re: Batlay & Rahal

Your article is disgusting. What rubbish !!!

And where did you get your hindustani names from ???

Maybe the Chowk website is also hindustani !!!

Pakistan has suffered quite heavily at the hand of several democratically elected governments. Whether the leader was corrupt is not the question. The fact remains that they were unable to curb the rampant corruption in the country and state of lawlessness. Thus they failed in their duty to the nation. Previous regimes are making rather hilarious statements about the Nawaz Sharif, firgetting the fact that it was during their era that Pakistan was ranked as the second most corrupt country following Nigeria.

How do we approach democracy, not by educated decision making, but through appealing to people`s emotions. How else could Benazir during her first successful campaign openly state her desire to avenge her fathers death? Again its hilarious to see her trapped in the current situation. Benazir was a strong opponent of any military involvement in the government especially because it was the military that had ousted her father, another corrupt politician. Her statements that military`s action was unfortunate but inevitable may actually teach her why it was needed 2 decades ago in her father`s case as well.

Gen. Musharraf seems to be a sincere man, but he needs to take some active steps to correct some of the damage that previous regimes have done. All tax evaders should be sued for all owed taxes and heavy penalties. Tax evading businesses should face penalties, including termination of current management/ownership and strict ongoing audit control for the next few years. Politicians who have ammassed personal wealth due to corruption should be treated in the following manner.

1) Completely audited, All family assets seized.

2) Banned for life from holding a public office.

3) Suitable and befitting jail term.

4) Politicians hiding overseas, including Benazir and Altaf, should be brought back and tried in the same manner as described above.

5) The seized assets should go towards our foreign exchange reserves.

Some other action items:

1) An organization such as the National Security Agency should be created and empowered.

2) Work should be initiated on a basic infrastructure for a realistic monetary and fiscal policy, I am sure numerous of our eminent scholars in top institutions in the world would be more than happy to assist in a sincere effort.

Much work needs to be done to rid the country of corrupt politicians, bureaucrats, industrialists and religious leaders. I will cheer for General Musharraf when this is done and well planned and sincere steps taken to build the infrastructure of the country. At this point I am fairly confident that he is sincere, he just needs to take immediate steps to prove it now.

Once this is done, it is his duty to allow democracy to return. The bigger challenge that we will face as a nation is to bring about true democracy, not feudal lord contingent returning to power again and again.

I totally and completely agree with what Maueen and Rahal voiced in this open letter to the General.

It is a shame to see Pakistan move backwards while the rest of the world is marching forwards. The military is supposed to guard the boundaries of the country and not indulge in the politics. If the general was so keen on setting things right then he surely should have resigned from the services and entered the arena of the politicians.

Its time that the people woke up and realized that they are being taken in for a ride yet one more time.

It is very easy for you to sit in the USA and make judgements on the situations in Pakistan. Do you have any idea how hard day to day life had become in pakistan? You talk about democracy, but you talk about it with the luxury of living in the USA where everyone, including the president is accountable; where the Judiciary, Police force and other indespensible institutions are independant and apolitical; and until you have these the term ``democracy`` is just a platform that legitamizes the evil doings of the corrupt leaders. For example, the Chief accountability Officer Senator Saifur Rehman, himself was not accountable; he and his family were major loan defaulters, to take his name off of the defaulters register he applied to the court who granted his request so he could apply for more loans. Do you realise that over 70% of the senators, MPA`s MNA`s of the country have been indicted or convicted of criminal offences? The situation is laughable. Before true democracy is able to work, we must conduct a purge of the system. This purge is not possible within the means of the constitution, as those who dispense the justice operate through a political agenda.

This purge has to be undertaken by the army as that is the only instituion left that hasnt been diluted. I have no doubt that when this purge is completed and strict guidelines have been put into place, that true democracy will rear its head finally in the land of the pure.

I have been reading comments about coup det`at with great interest. I was 4 years old when Pakistan gained independence. I have seen all the martial laws, two wars and a general decline in social, educational and moral standards since the time that I can remember. Things have changed so much that it is not the same country any more. I blame this on mullahs, politicians and generals, Firslty, the mullahs, I remember walking 3/4 mile from my school in Sialkot city to Dallowali near the border all alone when I was no more than 8/9 years old, never was any danger, never heard of any girls being molested or any one being shot. This was back in the early fifties, despite the fact that there were no islamisation and islamic laws. Now we have all the islamic laws but more rapes, crimes and innocent people being shot, just brcause they are of different sect.It is mullah who is directly responsible for this. I have seen the TV programme broadcast in London wherein Maulana Tariq Azam of SSP clearly incites his followers to kill shias. And the book by Maulana Farooqui which which states the shias are `wajibul qatal`. Why dont all the mullah`s isuue a fatwa that that to kill any human being, whether shia or sunni or christian or hindu is a grave sin and any one who preaches this is anti-muslim anmd anti pakistani. All mullahs were against pakistan and now they are out to destroy it in the name of islam. Secondly all politicians are corrupt. Initial 5 years of Ayub were good but then things started getting bad. I have never come across any regime worst than that of last Benazir Bhutto`s period. How came any one with the slightest rational mind can justify people like her. Basic ownership rights were not protected. It was during her first era when the kidnapings and car jackings started and during her second term the killing of shias started, Hakim Ali of ssp being one her ministers. Finally. the generals, despite the fact that economic progress did take place during ayub khan`s time, most of the current ills started during his time also. Zial ul haq takes the cake, he gave us the kalashinkov culture, ssp and mqm and of course the curse of the sharif brothers, when outsiders started calling pakistan a failed state. Why are pakistanis arguing about the rights and wrong of military take-over. What difference does it make, who governs or what kind of goverenment it is. To hell with the constitution if to safe gaurd it means the pakistanis are going to be killed and looted. Form of government doesnot matter.What matters is the people can go about their daily business without fear. The property is safe and rule of law is applied equally to all citizens and justice is not only done but also seen to done. People are made to pay the due taxes and loan defaulters are made to pay back the loans. Unless the above happens, Pakistan is not going to survive, we lost half of our country after 25 years and would lose the rest in next ten years. So my fellow pakistanis, please donot quible, what is done is done. Just pray to Allah that Musharaf and his junta delivers what they said they would. else we are all doomed.

dear mr musharaff

you have down well to move swiftly and stem the rot that would otherwise have been too late.

let no one believe that they can get away with looting a nation and securing their own interest at the expense of millions.

while it is a very bitter pill to swallow for every one in the international community, the remedy, inshallah shall be one that will justify the means

bhupesh

Just one question. What Constitution? Please if anyone was following the laws of that country in the first place all this s * *t would not have to take place. It`s great to have a piece of paper that tells a body of people what to do, but no one has been following the laws in a long time. Corruption is prevalant and it`s about damn time someone did something about it! As to wheter he will do any good, only time will tell. I hope so. I would like to be able to be proud of the accomplishments of my country, but let`s face it Pakistan has not done anything to be proud of in a long time. I hope he writes a new constitution, not one to serve his interests, but one that will genuinely benifit the people of Pakistan and one that, for a refreshing change, will not be based on religion but on the best for all the citizens of Pakistan.

Mueen Batlay and Rahal Saeed,

As-Salaamu Ala-e-kum.

I have no way of knowing your motives for writing this open letter - I will assume a sincere effort on your part. I, however, must disagree with you on several accounts and comment on your writing in general:

1. First thing I noticed is that you have started your letter without the courtesy of a salaam to the Gen. - no Pakistani worth his/her salt will ignore the salaam. It is not only part of our culture but also required by our religion as a right of the one who is addressed.

2. I do not know the words of the oath of office that the Gen. took. However, I do not believe these words were: ``I will defend the constitution even though I see my country being sold out by the elected government.``

3. You consider the Constitution of Pakistan more important than the survival of Pakistan. You seem to ignore the peril the so-called democratically elected government was putting the country into.

4. In your criticism, you have ignored the fact that Gen. Musharraf has put his life on the line to protect our beloved country in the past for which he was decorated. You have also ignored the fact that the military took action as the very last resort.

5. Your emphasis is on the so-called ``illegality`` of the military take-over of the government without regard to the illegality of the ex-premier`s actions of the immediate past and of the past 30 months.

6. Your ideal is limited to democratic form of government - however corrupt - rather than a just and law-abiding government - no matter what form it is in. The Islamic ideal is not a particular type of government but a government that provides justice and equal opportunity for all the people according to the laws laid down by God Himself as shown to us by our beloved prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

7. Finally, you seem to be very concerned about the foreign investments (and, maybe, foreign aid) and their impact on Pakistan`s economy. In fact, Pakistan will be forever better off without the charity - and the strings attached with it. Without it, we can be self reliant, self-sufficient and prosperous. Hasn`t the world already seen that economic self-sufficiency is so vital to freedom? Trade as equal partners, yes. Anything else is unacceptable.

Please wake up to facts on the ground. The Pakistani nation has not grieved the demise of Nawaz Shareef. It has not grieved the demise of democracy either.

If you want to work for the betterment of Pakistan, work to retrieve the lost billions of national wealth stolen by our so-called elected leaders over the years. Work to ensure that there will be accountability. That is certainly work worth doing. [Gen. Musharraf has already shown his sincerity by putting his tax returns in the public record.]

Was-Salaam.

Sincerely,

A.A.Qadeer

As a sympathizer from across the border, I offer my best wishes to pakistanis. I do believe in the institution of democracy. But if Gen Musharaf

can pull the country out of the present hole its in, and restore the democracy, this would be one

case where the END would justify the MEANS. I have my doubts too, as POWER CORRUPTS the powerful. I hope that the General has the integrity to withstand the temptations of corruption.

To the trouble duo, Mueen Batlay and Rahal Saeed.

Where was your conscience when your democratically elected leaders were flouting your constitution, as if it was nothing more than a toilet paper?

Didn`t you have a silent majority then?

This letter smells of a RAT. Whatever has happened in Pakistan was long overdue. How long can one languish in the squalor of pseudo-democracy. The `` democratic governments of Bhutto AND Sharif`` cheated the electorate on every front: economic, political and last but not the least on the very essence of being a Pakistani -PRIDE.

The open letter to Gen Musharraf, is a lameduck of an excuse for continuation of democratic values (WHO WAS FOLLOWING THESE RULES? SHARIF? BHUTTO?). I am sick and tired of people who try to impose their ideology sitting comfortably 10,000 miles away in the safe haven of US of A!. Why cant the author duo buy a one way ticket to Pakistan and WORK for the restoration of democracy?

You should not blindly follow creeds. Sometimes a just king is better than a democratically elected politician especially in a country like Pakistan where it is easy to get votes from the illeterate masses if you have the contacts.

What is the use of democracy if it does not favour the people. All opinon polls both inside and outside the country show the people welcome the army takeover.

Time and time again the army has to step in to save the country. They are NEVER given an option. Even at this time they were patient for a long time before stepping in.

It is very easy for you to sit in Washington DC and make wise comments about what is good for the country. If you had been in the country you would have know the frustration of the people and their needs.

Thank God for the Pakistan Armed Forces. Without their impressive takeover we would still be in big trouble. Lets hope and pray they put us on a stable track before handing the reins over to a civilian government.

I read an open letter written to General Musharaf. The views and ideas in the letter do not reflect the aspirations of the people of Pakistan. The results of major surveys conducted by diffenrent newspapers preliminary show that people favoured the change in Pakistan. You must keep also in mind before opposing the new regime in Pakistan. You must accept it and criticize their wrong doings in the future course of their rule.

Abdul Wajid

MUEEN BATLAY &RAHAL SAEED HAVE WRIITEN A VERY COMPREHSIVE , APPROPRRIATE, AND TO THE POINT ARITICLE REGARDING THE MESS GEN. MUSHARAFF AND HIS

FELLOW CONSPIRATORS HAVE CREATED , EVERY PASSING DAY A VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WILL GRADUALLY

BEGIN TO SEE THE REALITY BEHIND GEN.MUSHARAFS MOVE

WHICH WAS AS THE WRITERS HAVE CORRECTLY POINTED OUT WAS ONLY DESIGNED TO GRAB POWERE.

Sorry for the double post, but I have one more thing to say. The writers of the open letter say that General Musharraf violated the constitution. Well, here`s a pickle for you. Our so-called democratically elected leaders who take a CONSTITUTIONAL OATH OF OFFICE have been violating that very constitution EVERY STEP OF THE WAY! Looting the state treasury, tax evasion, making the poor people of my country suffer day by day, is this CONSTITUTIONAL? Is this BETTER than what General Musharraf has done?

I agree that a military coup is unconstitutional but there is simply no other option! The General himself did not want martial law - in fact, he has only imposed de facto martial law. He has not abrogated the constitution, only suspended it. Democracy WILL return, but only after across the board accountability, the revival of the economy and the banning of corrupt individuals from the political scene. Democracy CANNOT and WILL NOT work in a country with NO EDUCATION and the heavily rooted FEUDAL and BIRADARI systems! We will run ourselves into the ground with politicians like Nawaz and BB. Anyone in the West who opposes this point of view, could you please try to introduce the Pakistani democratic setup in your own country and see if you like it?

MUEEN BATLAY &RAHAL SAEED HAVE WRIITEN A VERY COMPREHSIVE , APPROPRRIATE, AND TO THE POINT ARITICLE REGARDING THE MESS GEN. MUSHARAFF AND HIS

FELLOW CONSPIRATORS HAVE CREATED , EVERY PASSING DAY A VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WILL GRADUALLY

BEGIN TO SEE THE REALITY BEHIND GEN.MUSHARAFS MOVE

WHICH WAS AS THE WRITERS HAVE CORRECTLY POINTED OUT WAS ONLY DESIGNED TO GRAB POWERE.

Sorry for the double post, but I have one more thing to say. The writers of the open letter say that General Musharraf violated the constitution. Well, here`s a pickle for you. Our so-called democratically elected leaders who take a CONSTITUTIONAL OATH OF OFFICE have been violating that very constitution EVERY STEP OF THE WAY! Looting the state treasury, tax evasion, making the poor people of my country suffer day by day, is this CONSTITUTIONAL? Is this BETTER than what General Musharraf has done?

I agree that a military coup is unconstitutional but there is simply no other option! The General himself did not want martial law - in fact, he has only imposed de facto martial law. He has not abrogated the constitution, only suspended it. Democracy WILL return, but only after across the board accountability, the revival of the economy and the banning of corrupt individuals from the political scene. Democracy CANNOT and WILL NOT work in a country with NO EDUCATION and the heavily rooted FEUDAL and BIRADARI systems! We will run ourselves into the ground with politicians like Nawaz and BB. Anyone in the West who opposes this point of view, could you please try to introduce the Pakistani democratic setup in your own country and see if you like it?

MUEEN BATLAY &RAHAL SAEED HAVE WRIITEN A VERY COMPREHSIVE , APPROPRRIATE, AND TO THE POINT ARITICLE REGARDING THE MESS GEN. MUSHARAFF AND HIS

FELLOW CONSPIRATORS HAVE CREATED , EVERY PASSING DAY A VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WILL GRADUALLY

BEGIN TO SEE THE REALITY BEHIND GEN.MUSHARAFS MOVE

WHICH WAS AS THE WRITERS HAVE CORRECTLY POINTED OUT WAS ONLY DESIGNED TO GRAB POWERE.

Sorry for the double post, but I have one more thing to say. The writers of the open letter say that General Musharraf violated the constitution. Well, here`s a pickle for you. Our so-called democratically elected leaders who take a CONSTITUTIONAL OATH OF OFFICE have been violating that very constitution EVERY STEP OF THE WAY! Looting the state treasury, tax evasion, making the poor people of my country suffer day by day, is this CONSTITUTIONAL? Is this BETTER than what General Musharraf has done?

I agree that a military coup is unconstitutional but there is simply no other option! The General himself did not want martial law - in fact, he has only imposed de facto martial law. He has not abrogated the constitution, only suspended it. Democracy WILL return, but only after across the board accountability, the revival of the economy and the banning of corrupt individuals from the political scene. Democracy CANNOT and WILL NOT work in a country with NO EDUCATION and the heavily rooted FEUDAL and BIRADARI systems! We will run ourselves into the ground with politicians like Nawaz and BB. Anyone in the West who opposes this point of view, could you please try to introduce the Pakistani democratic setup in your own country and see if you like it?

I think these two guys, Mueen Batlay and Rahal Saeed are sick in their mind.

They don`t know what is the live hood, Islam, Respect and Identity is. They have not learned and obtained the culture of Pakistan and the knowledge of Islam from their parents or their teachers. They should asked from those who have lost their loved ones in 1947, in 1965, in 1971, in 1990 till NOW.

It’s a shame that they live in this country (USA) and still lacking the bright light and education.

Their IQ is less then 1%, because they cannot make a judgment between Nawaz Sharif and General Pervez Musharraf. To them Dog and a Cow is the same thing.

We have lost our honour, our dignity and our respect as a Pakistani. What our politicians have done for our country in pure democracy is filling their greed’s; they never have respect for law, military and average human being in that country.

Nawaz and Shabaz were the stupid people I ever known. They had a golden opportunity in their hands for last 31 months. They could have build this country and could worked shoulder by shoulder with the Military and with experienced retired Pakistanis to achieve their desire. Their names have gone in the history of Pakistan with dignity and respect. Now they are worst then Dogs.

How can you guys talk about bringing them back and telling General Pervez Musharraf to go back to barracks?

In my opinion why don’t you guys go to Pakistan and help them out. Just don’t sit here and bluff. Act and do something for your love ones Nawaz and Shabaz Sharif.

In Asia Democracy has not been successful in most countries.

There are many recipes of democracies in the World.

- USA version

- UK version

- GDR - earlier German version which was communist

- France

In Asia

- Monarchies

- Syrian Democracy

- Egyptian Democracy

- Iraqi Democracy

- The Turkish Version

- The Iranian Version

The Raza Shah Version

Qumeini version

- Chinese version

All these are very different

The Western Countries had relations with most of these & were getting along well. Oil is the reason for the friendly relations, not democracy.

It appears that the system followed by each country is as per its requirement or circumstances, which is their internal mater. What really mattered is how that regime is useful to the country who wants to have relations. Democracy is not a condition.

The problem arises only when the country is not able to give a valuable product & takes loans. Then the dictation starts. It is blackmailed in different ways. The goal of the leaders is to play to the tunes of the Loan giving countries even if is bad for the nation & masses. There are personal gains for the leaders.

The relationships are motivated by objectives and not based on the system in that country.

In the system which Pakistan had (one may call it democracy) the masses were the rulers & the rulers from the Elite class always returned to power by whatever means possible & amassed wealth and the masses got punished everytime. Is this democracy.

During the military regimes in the past there has been some development but absolutely no development during the politicians reign. Many loans were however taken & God knows what happened to those loans.

As the politicians were mentally & physically corrupt & promoted corruption, the country had a economic breakdown. So a change was required for the better.

When the coup came most of the Pakistani Public welcomed this.

The mechanics of the change may not have pleased many but the results pleased the nation.

The army should get a chance to cleanup the corruption as a democratic setup cannot cleanup the mess due to several reasons. Only a dictator can cleanup.

The opposition parties should have removed the regime by moving in the National Assembly & not in the streets. Now the bloodshed has stopped.

Previously only a garb of democracy was there, there was no real democracy. The energies of the Nation were spent within the nation & lost. The country had gone to dogs.

If the people are happy with the change we should share their happiness and help them build their nation. If we do not want to help, even then it is OK. Let them help themselves.

Whether democracy are no democracy, Asia is in poverty while their raw material & products at low prices help the rich nation to live in luxury.

Economically Pakistan is at the lowest point. Further stoppage of loans may not do much more damage. If the general manages to bring up Pakistan without a helping hand, he will be a hero. If not he cannot make it worse.

This is regarding `open letter` from Mr. Mueen Batlay and Mr. Rahat Saeed.

They say that General should not have acted in the manner he did. But do they nean to say that Mr. Nawaz Sharif acted in a responsible manner when he intrigued against the country`s own Commander In-Chief?

What is democracy? Choosing a bunch of corrupt people with the help of equally corrupt percentage of voters! Just go to the records and find out how many people out of the enlightened and literate class go to the polling booths! I for one have never seen seen a polling booth from inside and I am not the only one. You can find thousands who are in the same category. True- Iam ding a right thing when I am not going to the polling booth. But for whom should I execrcise this right? For the one who is known to be corrupt? Or for the one who is not even enlightened what to taljk of education! The so-called elected MNAs and MPAs have no interest in the national affairs. They are lest bothered about legislating for the betterment ofthe country and the society. They literally take over the responsibilities and duties of the local bodies simply because there is involvement of money in them. Is it the duty of an elecetd MNA to build roads and streets and water wells in his electoral area? Does all this not clearly indicate that the election in the name of democracy is no more than an attempt to allow corrupt mafia to have an access to the oublic funds. You declare today that there will be no funds given to the MNAs in the name of development or there will be no job quatas for employing those who can pay for their appointment etc etc and you will find no one ready to contest an election. The western powers either know all this and are want a country to literally go to dogs for their own bit of cream or they are ignoract of the actual prevelant circumstances in our country. If they want democracy in Pakistan they are certainly not wishing us well. Their intent is more than clear that they are only happy when a country is in chaos. They are only pleased when a country is heading for dismemberment. I am sure my learned friends will not be upset by the change of government in Pakistan.

If western powers want to know the reaction of the masses to this change they should go to the common man in the street and find for themselves that there is satisfaction and happiness among them. An autocraatic ruler is a blessing for a country. In US people go to polls and return suitable people to the Senate and Presidency. The voters are not forced by any one to vote for a particular corrupt person. The people in our country are not even aware of the implications of returning corrupt mafia to the assemblies. They can themselves be lured into voting for a corrupt candidate for small gains. As amatter of fact the big question is - Whenever we return to democracy, should we allow illiterate and ignorant voters (a minority if you look at the percentage figures) to return in power a government that should rule the majority against their will and intent? In my opinion if that time comes, we should think of allowing only literate people to go to the polling booths and also make it compulsory for people like me to ecercise their rught of vote in the larger interest of the country.

NASIR JAVEED

LAHORE/PAKISTAN

This is regarding `open letter` from Mr. Mueen Batlay and Mr. Rahat Saeed.

They say that General should not have acted in the manner he did. But do they nean to say that Mr. Nawaz Sharif acted in a responsible manner when he intrigued against the country`s own Commander In-Chief?

What is democracy? Choosing a bunch of corrupt people with the help of equally corrupt percentage of voters! Just go to the records and find out how many people out of the enlightened and literate class go to the polling booths! I for one have never seen seen a polling booth from inside and I am not the only one. You can find thousands who are in the same category. True- Iam ding a right thing when I am not going to the polling booth. But for whom should I execrcise this right? For the one who is known to be corrupt? Or for the one who is not even enlightened what to taljk of education! The so-called elected MNAs and MPAs have no interest in the national affairs. They are lest bothered about legislating for the betterment ofthe country and the society. They literally take over the responsibilities and duties of the local bodies simply because there is involvement of money in them. Is it the duty of an elecetd MNA to build roads and streets and water wells in his electoral area? Does all this not clearly indicate that the election in the name of democracy is no more than an attempt to allow corrupt mafia to have an access to the oublic funds. You declare today that there will be no funds given to the MNAs in the name of development or there will be no job quatas for employing those who can pay for their appointment etc etc and you will find no one ready to contest an election. The western powers either know all this and are want a country to literally go to dogs for their own bit of cream or they are ignoract of the actual prevelant circumstances in our country. If they want democracy in Pakistan they are certainly not wishing us well. Their intent is more than clear that they are only happy when a country is in chaos. They are only pleased when a country is heading for dismemberment. I am sure my learned friends will not be upset by the change of government in Pakistan.

If western powers want to know the reaction of the masses to this change they should go to the common man in the street and find for themselves that there is satisfaction and happiness among them. An autocraatic ruler is a blessing for a country. In US people go to polls and return suitable people to the Senate and Presidency. The voters are not forced by any one to vote for a particular corrupt person. The people in our country are not even aware of the implications of returning corrupt mafia to the assemblies. They can themselves be lured into voting for a corrupt candidate for small gains. As amatter of fact the big question is - Whenever we return to democracy, should we allow illiterate and ignorant voters (a minority if you look at the percentage figures) to return in power a government that should rule the majority against their will and intent? In my opinion if that time comes, we should think of allowing only literate people to go to the polling booths and also make it compulsory for people like me to ecercise their rught of vote in the larger interest of the country.

NASIR JAVEED

LAHORE/PAKISTAN

We the poeple of Pakistan are fed up of this so called democaracy. I know that a democratice system is best at present times to run a government but unfortunately this system have been usel by the politicians not to serve the nation but to serve themselves primarily.

Of course democratic system has an in built mechanism in which such elements would be eliminatied during a course of period but unfortunately we have been left no times to mend our way. I do not agree with the very idea that General Musharraf action is not justified.This action would loose its meening and purpose if it fails to do the unbaised and fair accountibility across the board. This is the prime concern for the poeple of Pakistan and the single most factor (eradication of corruption ) which could save our nation from moral destruction. Once a nation is strong enough on moral value it has every chance to rise.

Accountability is the single factor which can rebuild the lost confidence among the nation as well as nations confidence towards the democracy which at the moment the moment stand shattered.

If the Consitution of pakistan is still there and the Supreme Court is functioning, then the supreme Court should take action on its own to look into the Gen.`s illegal action. Definitely, the court would declare the state of emergency, army action and all proclamations & orders by the Musharaf & Company as illegal and un-constitutional.

Then the Gen. can file a petition in the higher court about his dismissal from the post of the army chief.

That is the only legal way in my opinion.

In the Pakistan Army tradition, the COAS resigns (is asked to resign) or completes the tenure until retired. There is no provision of a COAS being sacked, especially while enroute over national airspace after having represented the country in a foreign country.

How stupid of ``the democrats``, whose mental mandate never went beyond eating ``gol gappe`` across a cinema in Bhati Gate, Lahore!

Hell Mueen Batlay and Rahal Saeed

Do you know what democracy is, you two live in D.C you should now better then anyone else, let me give you couple of examples

Monica Lewinsky case Clinton appeared in court.

CTBT congress does not wanna ratify it.

Clinton is accountable for the things that he did in past like Watergate scandal.

Let me give democracy in Pakistan, which was worst then dictatorship.

Lets start with press

Najam sethi, BBC corespondent in Karachi, Press Reporters during GDA demonstration.......

Hakim saied and several other non-political leaders got killed during this democracy.

Our Judicial system got corrupted and manipulated by this democracy.

Alarming increase in suicidal deaths.

In democracy parliament is not prime minister ‘s rubber stamp if they like shariat bill that’s fine if they don’t anybody force them or threat them.

Where were you two when federal government declared governor rule in Sindh?

Where were you two when karachites were getting slathered by fake police encounter?

After reading the comments of Mueen Batlay and Rahal Saeed i felt obliged to comment on their distorted views of recent events in Pakistan.As somone one looking in from the outside it is quite

apparent that the people of Pakistan are over joyed that a coup has taken place.The sad facts are that in countries like Pakistan democracy does not work.It merely serves to line the pockets of corrupt politicians who the behave like tyrrants serving no benefit to the masses.Hopefully the generals will execute the likes of the Sharif`s and the Bhutto`s of this world.In truth the only people upset at events that have taken place in Pakistan are the corrupt politicians and there cronies as well as the Americans and their Indian

cronies.Maybe Mueen Batlay and Rahal Saeed work for the Indian secret services?

This is totally totally a selfish act.Only because he was fired from the army did he do so. Was he sleeping all the time before then????

I disagree with you guys totally.

I think it is a blessing in disguise.

You people are watching and commenting from what you see in the CNN or the BBC broadcast.

I wish you people were here to see how our country was being shattered by the politicians including the democratic dictator Nawaz.

You say that He is no longer the chief fine who cares if he does what the elected government should have been doing then its fine by us and nothing of this sort would have happened.

People are infact happy on this action by the army or removal what ever you might call it.

The people living abroad get the picture which is painted to them by the foreign media and thats why they are so misguided. Ok let me tell you why was all this so necessary.

1- The most important thing in this era is economy and believe me the economy was just not there whatever money people contributed for the so called schemes for self relience was spent on the government officials.

2- The prices were sky high and the middle class and the lower class were being crushed under it. You call this good so Allah Help us all.

3- The country was losing its integrity and its image was being shattered in the eyes of the world as one nation whose leaders are corrupt and can sell their nation for a mere few dollars.

4- After Kargil the blame was put all on the ARMY and it was made to look as we have lost the entire Kashmir and our beloved leader goes to Washington to sell us off.

5- You have mentioned that the constitution was played with ,fine what good is a constitution when it is there and has no effect and carries no meanings so it is better to just tore it apart.

6- You say it was illegeal tell me is it morally legal to first extend a persons tenure as Chief of Army staff and then retire him when he is not even in the country and is on an official visit to another country and then ask the pilot to land the plane in either India or crash it.

7- Tell me guys what you would have done in these circumstances when you are watching the institute that you are leading getting polticized and rifts being created in it.

Finally i tell you guys that it was just not one person who has done it all, the whole of the ARMY and the NATION was behing the Army Chief for taking such a brave step.

If you people have heard his speech then let me tell you that if he is able to achieve what he has siad in his address then You will see taht one day we will all be proud of calling our selves Pakistani`s.

Dear Mueen & Rahal,

Today is the first time I have come on Chowk. I cliked on your open letter to General Musharraf and as I read it, I was amazed at your naivete and your total divorce from realities. Where do these guys live? I wondered, without knowing honestly that you do not live in Pakistan. Only when I reached the end of your letter I realized you do indeed live abroad, in the US capital, no less. Now I can understand why the contents of your letter sounded so nonsensical. Well gentlemen, if you feel so strongly about Pakistan and its constitution, why don`t you give up your cushy Western lifestyle, get over here and try and save the Constitution. Sitting over there the constitution may seem very holy to you. But for us living here in Pakistan, let me tell you that our Constitution, or any constitution for that matter is not worth the paper it is written on if it cannot guarantee even basic rights for the people. Pakistanis do not need constitutions. Millions of them do need drinking water, a roof over their heads, two meals a day, basic medical care and protection from terrorists, dacoits, fundos and immoral self serving politicians. Can you understand this? No you can`t. Because you don`t know what it is to be poor or to be sick or to be deprived in Pakistan. The Constitution is not the word of Allah. It is a document prepared by humans and amended 15 times by other humans just to justify their own wrongs and perpetrate their heartless, totally self serving rule on millions of illiterate, ill fed and hapless Pakistanis.

Here in Pakistan we are all solidly behind Gen. Musharraf. Not because he got rid of Nawaz Sharif. That is a consequence. But because once again we have hope that something good will come out of all this and perhaps, for constitution lovers like yourselves, a new and better constitution will be made that will ensure nobody ever again degrades and rubs into the dirt his countrymen and gets away scot free.