Compilation of Opinions on the Military Takeover in Pakistan

INTENTS ARE NOW CLEARER

After 48 days of illegimate takeover of power in Pakistan by the armed forces, each day makes the intents of the so called fair deal military rulers, more and more obvious. Jernaile Mussrraf and his touts couldn`t find a single corruption case against Nawaz Sharif, the legal Prime Minister of Pakistan. But to get rid of him, the jernailes instructed their employee, a colonel to lodge a report (FIR) for flight 805 hijack. What are you trying to prove jernaile ji? Well, this is his style of accountability, of course inspired by Zia-ul-Haq, jernaile Musharraf is inclined towards elimination of Mr. Sharif for good. ``Hang him`` said the drunk jernaile after his routine Friday night booze. Musharraf may be feeling very secure after having sent all his family members to USA, including his only son, Bilal. But those who are unjust and unfair to their own country and people, shall be doomed anyway, no matter where they are. Jernaile Ji, you have acted against the constitution of Pakistan, who gave you that right? You are artificially popular in the intelligence agenicies books through phony gallop polls conducted by newspapers under your control, in real life you are a villian. You belong to the same lot that killed our first prime minister, RLA khan; hanged the second prime minister ZA Bhutto; got the third prime minister convicted; and are now aiming at hanging the legal prime minister, democratically authorised ruler of Pkaistan, Mian Nawaz Sharif. Our all these years, army has shown no respect for the people`s representative. The pakistan army generals somehow still beleive themselves to be superior, still living in a fools paradise, a part of ruling British army that conspired with the fuedals and treated my people like animals. But we are sure, that this time we will make the difference, and we shall see the jernailes hung by their necks. The world shall see you and your team end in hell. Insallah.

Bye bye Jernaile Ji

Rahat

Soldotna: ``The Red Barons of Pakistan, Sharifs and Bhuttos and others, however corrupt they may have been, did benefit the general populace overall.`` You must be joking.

I agree with the excellent analysis by Zeemaz/Concerned. Another coup d`etat is in the offing. Honeymoon will be over by the end of November. And another turd will try a fellow turd for hijacking Flight 805. As Zemax has pointed out in an earlier posting, if Sharif wanted to prevent Mush from coming back to Pakistan from Ceylon, there were a lot of other sneakier ways to do it.

Any and every nation goes through the ``corruption`` stage before it fully matures. US had its Red Barons like Carnegie and Ford and Mellons. It took close to one hundred years before US fully

matured. However, US economy benefitted from these Red Barons. Just look around at Sigapores and Japans and Koreas. The Red Barons of Pakistan, Sharifs and Bhuttos and others, however corrupt they may have been, did benefit the general populace overall. These Turds and Mullahs must bear patience and give these barons a chance and let Pakistan go through the phases towards full maturation as any other nation or country has. USA did not get there today where it is in fifty years either. It took almost a hundred years.

Soldotna in Alaska

Re :Contributer formally known as Concerned !

Indeed no more elected premiers will be executed in this country. The people will make sure of that. No two bit self-serving randi-baaz boozer rogues in uniform can succeed in doing that after they succeeded with ZA Bhutto. The people will hang first these uniforms once the opium of the 16th November wears off and reality begins to sink in. Let the trial of the aircraft case be open and transparent to let the people know about the lies like how much fuel was left on the aircraft amongst others. Six minutes stuff makes me puke. Let the people know who it was who hijacked the aircraft alongwith his pet dogs inside the cockpit of PK 805...

Alas my words are coming true sooner than I thought. Islamabad`s Blue Area, the heart of Islamabad, has been rocked by remote controlled rocket launchers ( seven triggered in 2 minutes )installed in vehicles parked across from US installations.

There were 5 people wounded and no one was killed. Ambassador Milam`s comment is that at such close range it was possible to target the buildings directly but the perpetrators didn`t do it. So it was a display of the destructive capabality at hand .. a display of strength. Indeed the authorities are baffled as to how could such heavily armed vehicles enter the Capital and were parked across secure installtions.

Many friends will now recall the sudden surge in violence before NS was toppled. These things are never by coincidence. The preperation for the next coup has begun.

Islamabad

14-11-99

Subject: Clinton, Stay Home

The US Government is prating on about `benchmarks` that have to be met

before Bill Clinton can visit Pakistan next year. They are dead right. The

benchmarks are as follows:-

1. Clinton must personally apologise to the people of Pakistan for lending

unwarranted support to Nawaz Sharif and his gang of thieves.

2. The US Government must lift all sanctions against Pakistan and make

reparation to Pakistan for losses arising from these sanctions.

3. The US must deliver all equipment bought by Pakistan and illegally held

in the USA, and pay due penalties at commercial rates for financial and

opportunity losses accruing to Pakistan therefrom.

4. The USA must unequivocally declare that it supports the right of the

people of Jammu & Kashmir for self-determination under the relevant UN

resolutions.

5. The USA must declare that it supports the current endeavours of the

people of Pakistan to find a new and genuine democratic framework.

Regarding this last condition, it may be of interest to note that it took

the people of the original 13 States of the USA 13 years after the

Declaration of Independence in 1776 and 8 years after the surrender of the

British in 1881 to frame their Constitution and install George Washington

as first President in 1889. Pakistan today needs to cast away the poisoned

chalice of Westminster-style parliamentary `democracy` and (ironically)

seek a constitutional framework akin to that adopted by the American

people. Only a government that is not our friend will demand that we

hastily plaster on a `label of democracy` to satisfy what it sees as its

domestic public opinion. We will stand firm: that is not the kind of `black

label` that we want.

So, Mr Clinton, please don`t bother to come to Pakistan if you do not share

in our current happiness, relief and hope. You can go and visit those who

have been kicking you in the teeth for the last 50 years.

Yours truly,

Rizvan Ali,

36 Margalla Road,

F-8/3, Islamabad

92-51-262736

- The moral bankruptcy of the regime is more pronounced than financial bankruptcy. The witch hunt against companies and individuals is likely to reach is crescendo on the 17th.

- Gen Musharraf has stated that there will be a

``blast`` if not enough money is obtained. He should

know about blasting because he had a lot of good men and $1.6 billion blasted off in Kargil - and almost brought the entire region close to a radio active blast.

- Picking up small children to get their parents

to pay up sounds like kidnappers, extortionists and blackmailers are in charge. Just go on the human rights sites and see what a blast they are having !

- Incidently the danger of a full blast run on the banks is now building up as people have started withdrawing funds from the banks and moving valuables from lockers home - lest their savings get blasted out of the vaults.

Fidel

Fidel

UR & Irfan Whatever Dawn Industries!

You know what your problem is and when I say that I mean people from lower middle class with education....people like the uniformed turd who suddenly has raised himself to the the level ``Expert on International Affairs`` ......U think that you can do better and this press of the country which has exploited every single person who did good or bad for the country..........I know all the losers from all institutions ended up writing for the news papers and papers like Dawn who only write against the governament when it sells more or they are advised that fewer days are left for them(governament) to survive (help us get rid of em)........who doesnt know the way press works in the country every night the news is distributed among them at the local hotels for them to publish as it is...........this is besides the point..........but suggestion is physician heal thyself!

About NS who is no uncle or friend of mine by the way...........if you are from Lahore you would know this family has grown over the years and this guy use to drive Mercedes 450 SEL in early eighties much before he even became the finance minister............well you know what..........lets face it we all are corrupt and the worst are who would pay RS 500 to get their ID made but if the Business man pays accordingly to his ratio to get his loan approved from a corrupt banker or a beaurecrat.................see hush hush in it............No industry has ever been started on intiaters own many........gone are those days................and not all are sucessfull and the loans do go bad........but has anyone ever seen how many jobs these industries provided for the people of the country.................and countinue to do so...........every one of you use your influences everyday for get their kid admitted to getting their stuff go through the custom unchecked................and the press bratts use their press cards to harass people everyday day..............

I am justifying any misdoings of any body and if someone has done damamge to countries economy...........then they should account for it.................but no ``Uniformed Turd`` has a right to do that to the elected PM of Pakistan and what else can be funnier then the case that is being presented...........and when all else fails....start mud slingging...............and the families involved that how bad the sharif`s were to their business partners.........................is that nations concern.................You people are pathetic!

This nation doesnot deserve any better leader.............and what makes anyone think with after what they are doing to this guy who some economic vision anyone else will volunteer for this job..........He didnot creat IPP issue but was trying to solve it.............He didnt creat Kargil issue but was trying to solve it....................He didnot ask India to detinate the bomb either.................the condition of was based on several reasons and the biggest of all this Turds 1.5 billion dollar mistake............and ongoing serious expeditures on these good for nothing political generals.................

Last time when NS was let go.............the Stock market was its peak the best it has ever been...........and about this time.............

UR when next time you go to take a 3 hr exam I would like to be there..........45 minutes past I will cut off the power and also start screaming and yelling around you that you are bound to fail..................and then I will make others to join me in making that noise..........will have a shoot arranged as well..............so that the interest is maintained...........just past the hour I will start spreading the rumours that this exam is gonna end much earlier then the designated time and also create all kinds of panic.............and after 90 mintues I will come and slap u in the face and take your paper.............with just one comment...........I knew you would have failed anyways...........and by the way I am a sel proclaimed examiner..........with no experience or clue with either the exam/subject or even my own @ss!

How about that?

This time if some SOOOOB tried to kill the PM........and let me clearify our lad from Lahore.................that would be then end of geographical pakistan as we all know it!

Contributer Formerlly Known As Concerned

RE: QUERY REGARDING EJAZ UL HAQ.

- It is a publicly known fact that this guy has

a lot of money. Estimated to be between $150 to

$ 200 million cash. This is besides properties

and things like jewellery that his mother obtained

on visits to the middle east.

- Surprisingly the army goes along with this guy

because he is the son of the old boss. Most of

this generation of officers came up the ranks

in the Zia era so one can expect some defference

for the brat.

- As he is not a bank defaulter he is unlikely

to be asked to give up anything.

- He is also known to be very unreliable as far

as loyalties are concerned.

- He has however come up with a good suggestion that the assembly be summoned and an indemnity

bill be passed excusing the army from trashing

the constitution. He probably believes that this

will save them from contemplating killing Mr.

Sharif to prevent a future day of reckoning.

Fidel

Couldn`t have explained the situation better, myself.

DAWN-Pakistan:

For me, Nawaz Sharif is the very antithesis of a democrat: here is a man who was first made finance minister of Punjab by the then governor, General Jilani, and then elevated to chief ministership by Zia. Finally, with ISI funding, he became the prime minister. While climbing up the political ladder, he used his muscle to lean on nationalized banks to lend him and his family hundreds of millions until they became one of the biggest industrial groups in the country. Never sated, he continued milking the system even after he did not need any more money.

When people ask me how I can support a military coup against a democratically elected government, I reply (somewhat defensively) that this was the only possible way of getting rid of the man. Having neutered all the possible threats to his autocratic rule, he had turned his attention to the press, and it was only a matter of time before this last bastion of critical speech was muzzled. Given his lack of respect for democratic institutions, I have no doubt in my mind that he would have rigged the elections shamelessly when the time came. Having mounted a tiger, he just could not get off: after what he had done to the opposition, he could not afford the risk of being voted out of office and facing the same fate. The stake were just too high for him to suddenly see the light and become a true democrat.

Consider the man`s track record during the first half of his term: from having his goons storm the Supreme Court to having Najam Sethi of the Friday Times roughed up and held incommunicado for a month, he showed every sign of intolerance and fascism. But having said this, let me emnphasize that I do not regard military rule as a panacea: time and again, they have proved that they have no solutions to Pakistan`s highly complex problems. Each time they have seized power, they have left a bigger mess in their wake. Above all, once ensconced, they never leave of their own free will.

This, then, is the liberal dilemma: how to condone a military takeover and the overthrow of an elected government, even though Nawaz Sharif was acting more and more like his mentor, General Zia. In the liberal lexicon, army coups are automatically evil, while elected governments, no matter how corrupt and inefficient, are preferable to military juntas.

According to conventional wisdom, the cure for a poorly run democracy is more democracy, not less. This school of thought holds that no matter what their faults, both Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto should have been given a chance to discredit themselves to the point when they would be rejected by voters. At this point, a vibrant new leadership would emerge. Unfortunately, by the time this miracle took place, I doubt very much there would have been a country left for this breed of honest politicians to lead.

But as far as I am concerned, the fact that leaders of religious parties like Qazi Hussain Ahmed and Maulana Fazlur Rahman have begun opposing the military regime because it is liberal is ground enough for me to support it. I may not be clear about whom I am for, but I know who I am against.

(DAWN: Irfan Hussain)

Martial law is the worst thing that can happen to a country. Martial law administrator cannot expect

people to follow the law since he himself has broken the constitution. We hav`nt experienced democracy

because of our long association with military or quasi-military rule. Thats way all democratic

governments we experienced have been dictatorial in nature. Democracy takes a lot of time and patience

to florish. The journey for a perfect democratic system is painfull but in the end very effective. The

western countries has gone through the worse since they believed in the system and now they are

enjoying the fruits of democracy. On the other hand our people have been repeatedly fooled by our

military for the last 52 years. You can fool a nation once or twice but not for ever. But our nation is so

marvellous that it has been fooled for 52 years and still has`nt learnt from its mistake. So instead of

blaming the politicians for not knowing the spelling of democracy, we should look at ourself and ask ,

are we really literate? After 52 years we don`t even know our destiny. Are we really a failed nation?

It is the army who has failed us and those ignorant masses who celebrate whenever a democratic elected

government is uncounstitutionally removed. Army has a habit of counqering our nation every 10-20 year.

It destroys all democractic norms that flourished in its absence. The Indophobia we inherited since our

creation is also the reason behind this mess. Only people has to decide the fate of out nation. No

mard-e-momin of khlifa would help. The reason for all this mess in Pakistan is because peoples opinion

has been voilated every now and then by military and its pawns. For a country entering 21st century,

having a system even looked downed upon by ancient Greeks is a shame. Shame on Pakistan nation!

Gen.Musharaf did the right thing.There is nothing more that can be said about this episode.

Mamur Mustapha.

It`s quite ironic. Nawaz Sharif will be tried by the same Anti-Terrorist Courts he set up. I think they will get him for endagering the lives of passengers, but not for hijacking and murder.

By the way, does any one have any information about this guy, Ejaz-ul-Haq. What else has he done in his life apart from being the son of Zia-ul-Haq? He seems to always be in the news.

General is Proving his ``Mutterness``.

Yesturday a case was registered by the military regime against Prime Minister (under unlawfull detention)Mian Mohammad Nawaz Sharif and eight others for conspiring to kill dismissed jernaile Mutterraf G. Last week in his interview to BBC Urdu (Audio recording available at BBC website) jernaile Mutterraf declared that he was not a vindictive person. Now this case reflects his intentions and confirms my fears that I had voiced at this forum earlier. Jernaile Ji everybody cannot be Zana-ul-Haq nor can Sharif-ud-din Pirzada do miricales all the times; also it is not 1977. The TRUTH remains that you jernaile Mutterraf were dismissed by the lawfull and democratically elected prime Minister of Pakistan, but you and your SSG group personnel revolted and overthrew the elected government of Pakistan. When Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif came to know about your touts revolt, he ordered directing your airplane to land at NawabShah with orders to arrest you, and ensure that you obey the orders. But you jernaile Mutter G. yourself went to the cockpit of the airliner, and instructed the pilot to circle around Karachi airport until allowed to land. You general Mutter G, had then snatched the microphone-headphone set from the co-pilot and insisted on Karachi airport tower on the wireless that the plane was not going to NawabShah but will land here, ``Only here and nowhere else``. I wish people in the airplane can speak out the truth. It is you general Mutter G. who risked the lifes of the 200 passengers, and have now held the whole nation hostage to your ambitions. It is jernaile Mutter G. who should be tried for treason and not Nawaz Sharif, the elected Prime Minister of Pakistan. Now we are gonna see the flash backs of Zana-ul-Haq era, who during his 11 years rule wasted energies to destroy the PPP. But became of him, his remains were just his ``Jabrah``. Jernaile Mutter G, you will go to HELL, as your predeccessor jernaile Zana-ul-Haq did. INSALLAH.

Roohi Allah Ditta

BAHMED#75.

Thanks, we can not expect the world to change overnight. A beginning is to be made, direction to be set.

Opinions/ UR #74/73

Something like SECULAR Bharat?

Churchil, Eisenhower, De’Gaule, Fiedel Castro, Marshall Tito, General Franco to name a few of the turds, if however our experience has been of the worst, but you never know.

Speaking of traffic lights, first and foremost duty is to avoid a catastrophe, legalities are secondary.

Let him be the Sardar ji who after having saved a drowning dame asked, “menu dhukka kaon ditta? Who pushed me into the water?

tariqlodi

-Reference Chowkidar agenda - some reflections:

You mentioned very dracaonian punishments for loan

defaulters. General Musharraf also said yesterday

that if people do not pay back by the 17th there

will be a blast. Well one opinion is that this

guy is going to be put on top of a ghauri missile

blasted somewhere. It could be the closet taliban

generals waiting in the wings wanting to let

him be the fall guy. I have no problem with him

being drunk in the evening but he is expected to be sober at day time.

In regard to the matter of default: Son, lot of

business operations fail - just like military

operations. In the third world this is more likely

to happen for variety of reasons that primarily

include government policies. While I am not

denying the fact that people have defrauded banks

or were ill intentioned - but defining a willful

defaulter is quite difficult even for the bankers.

Our economy has been slipping into a recession

for serveral years now. Some international factors

and a lot of domestic factors as well. Fundamentally we have been living beyond means

and supporting a big wasteful and corrupt government apparatus that has been directly and

indirectly spending borrowed money. Plus we have

been supporting a huge military machine that costs

a hell of a lot of money. There is also reason to

suspect that one of the factors that led the

army to decide that the civilians should be ousted

was that they say it coming that the defence

allocations would have to be slashed as there was

no money left. They probably did not think it was

important to work out a strategy that would have

maintained a military posture at the same levels

in lesser funds.

Infact the critical failing has been that they

did not a allow this kind of debate. If Musharraf

allows this I will be convinced that this is the

guy we have been waiting for.

We are unable to generate funds to support the

latter two - obvious brought on by this kind

of spending binge. On top of it we have not spent

any substantial money or had the systems in place

to educate our manpower that could have supported

an economy running on software, high tech value

added work and what have you.

The nuclear program was developed as a sequal to

the emerging resouce contstraints because the

leaders then - Mr.Bhutto included - realised that

we could not maintain a military posture that

provided the balance of power with India beyond

a point. So perhaps the nuclear program was ``a``

solution to freezing the status quo. I would

have done the same.

Coming back to the default thing. The actual

default figures are estimated to be $2.8 billion.

Even this figure has been doubted in a recent

analysis. The figures are apparently cooked up by

the State Bank to con the IMF and includes interest that has not really accrued. This figure

includes a lot of government commercial operations.

We are in the hoc to the tune of 30 billion dollars plus. Where did the other 27 billion go ?

He is not talking about that.

Another point - just to make you think while you

are on guard duty - there is also serious concern

about the IMF treatment and the fact that there

seems to be something stange happening. The banks

are orchestrating forced bankruptcies. I find

that very suspicious because there is a growing

body of literature suggesting that this is part

of scam to acquire Pakistani industrial assets,

banks and infrastructure and 10% value by western

interests. Writings about this ``scam`` have been

published by western economists - not the mullahs,

pinkos and crooks. The statement by the American

Ambassador the other day did give out the latter

odour.

The kind of witchhunt and pogrom being planned is

going to have frightful consequences. Our ecomomy

is likely to collapse with catastropic consequences and the costs are going far exceed

what we may gain. Just wait and see...

Fidel

-Reference Chowkidar agenda - some reflections:

You mentioned very dracaonian punishments for loan

defaulters. General Musharraf also said yesterday

that if people do not pay back by the 17th there

will be a blast. Well one opinion is that this

guy is going to be put on top of a ghauri missile

blasted somewhere. It could be the closet taliban

generals waiting in the wings wanting to let

him be the fall guy. I have no problem with him

being drunk in the evening but he is expected to be sober at day time.

In regard to the matter of default: Son, lot of

business operations fail - just like military

operations. In the third world this is more likely

to happen for variety of reasons that primarily

include government policies. While I am not

denying the fact that people have defrauded banks

or were ill intentioned - but defining a willful

defaulter is quite difficult even for the bankers.

Our economy has been slipping into a recession

for serveral years now. Some international factors

and a lot of domestic factors as well. Fundamentally we have been living beyond means

and supporting a big wasteful and corrupt government apparatus that has been directly and

indirectly spending borrowed money. Plus we have

been supporting a huge military machine that costs

a hell of a lot of money. There is also reason to

suspect that one of the factors that led the

army to decide that the civilians should be ousted

was that they say it coming that the defence

allocations would have to be slashed as there was

no money left. They probably did not think it was

important to work out a strategy that would have

maintained a military posture at the same levels

in lesser funds.

Infact the critical failing has been that they

did not a allow this kind of debate. If Musharraf

allows this I will be convinced that this is the

guy we have been waiting for.

We are unable to generate funds to support the

latter two - obvious brought on by this kind

of spending binge. On top of it we have not spent

any substantial money or had the systems in place

to educate our manpower that could have supported

an economy running on software, high tech value

added work and what have you.

The nuclear program was developed as a sequal to

the emerging resouce contstraints because the

leaders then - Mr.Bhutto included - realised that

we could not maintain a military posture that

provided the balance of power with India beyond

a point. So perhaps the nuclear program was ``a``

solution to freezing the status quo. I would

have done the same.

Coming back to the default thing. The actual

default figures are estimated to be $2.8 billion.

Even this figure has been doubted in a recent

analysis. The figures are apparently cooked up by

the State Bank to con the IMF and includes interest that has not really accrued. This figure

includes a lot of government commercial operations.

We are in the hoc to the tune of 30 billion dollars plus. Where did the other 27 billion go ?

He is not talking about that.

Another point - just to make you think while you

are on guard duty - there is also serious concern

about the IMF treatment and the fact that there

seems to be something stange happening. The banks

are orchestrating forced bankruptcies. I find

that very suspicious because there is a growing

body of literature suggesting that this is part

of scam to acquire Pakistani industrial assets,

banks and infrastructure and 10% value by western

interests. Writings about this ``scam`` have been

published by western economists - not the mullahs,

pinkos and crooks. The statement by the American

Ambassador the other day did give out the latter

odour.

The kind of witchhunt and pogrom being planned is

going to have frightful consequences. Our ecomomy

is likely to collapse with catastropic consequences and the costs are going far exceed

what we may gain. Just wait and see...

Fidel

General`s Agenda

I would like to take this opportunity to slightly reorganize Gen. Pervez Musharaf`s agenda:

1. Ensure swift and across the board accountability.

At this stage, accountability should be the first and foremost priority of Gen. Musharaf with the stress being on “SWIFT”. Any unnecessary delay will jeopardize present government’s credibility. Capital punishment should be the ideal option since it will be a lesson for the next generation of politicians. However, if the rationale for capital punishment cannot be established an alternative approach would be to deprive the convicts of all their wealth and assets and leave them to roam the streets as beggars. This should also apply to the loan defaulters.



2. Ensure law and order.

Personal weapons should be declared illegal with immediate effect. A deadline should be established for people to turn-in the arsenal. Anyone caught with a weapon should be shot.

3. Feudalism should be uprooted immediately.

This is the very core of our problems. Once eradicated, will automatically pave the way for the devolution of power and de-politicizing of state institutions.

4. Education is what we need.

Although, 4th in my list of priorities, education is the corner stone for the revitalization of our economy, resurrection of national confidence and the overall prosperity of Pakistan.

The core educational curricula should be revamped to bring them in-line with the need of the present. The government should facilitate educational institutions to ensure that our youth attains the necessary education to become value-added citizens. Emphasis should be on post-secondary education.

Women along with men should be encouraged to attain higher degrees so they can contribute to the workforce and teach the importance of education to their children who will be the future of Pakistan.

Last but not the least, in this era of information technology, it should be our national mandate to ensure that Pakistan’s youth acquires the skills that are necessary for our survival in the next millennium.

5. Restore Investor Confidence (Specially in the field of Information Technology).

First of all, Information Technology should be declared an industry. The government should provide financial assistance as well as tax breaks for investors who want to focus in this area.

Instead of focusing on sugar and tomato exports to earn export revenues, Pakistan should focus on this multi-billion dollar global market that is still in its infancy. We should learn a lesson from India who is exporting 3.9 Billion dollars worth of software per year.

6. Strengthen the federation, remove inter provincial disharmony and restore national cohesion.

7. Establish a national social security and credit processing system.

This should be based on the US standards. A credit history should be maintained for everyone with a valid National Identification Number. This will not only facilitate the financial institutions to determine credit worthiness, but will also help the government to collect taxes in an organized fashion.

MUSHARRAF

We need to hear Nawaz Sharif`s version of about

this guy. This man cannot foster political

develpment - period. He is just another adventurer.

His Kargil stunt - that cost over $1.5 billion

and endangered the country - something he

does not want to discuss.

He thinks that diverting attention to private

sector problems with the banking system will

make us forget Kargil.

Fidel

TRUTH IS TRUTH, NO ONE CAN CHANGE IT

Reference SameerJB reply# 72

Thankyou Sameer Ji for clarifying my feelin`s. I really appreciate that and wish we all have similar ability to understand and read each other between the lines. The facts about 12 Oct 1999 coup remain postulates as far as history of civilized nations is concerned:-

(1)that a the chairman of joint chiefs of staff and dismissed chief of army staff, jernaile mutterraf, overturned the entire set-up only because he believed that he had been removed from office unceremoniously and in violation of the procedure.

(2)Jernaile Mutterraf dismissed his `employer` the PM of Pakistan on account of personal vendetta or enmity instead of going to the court for legal redress.

(3)In civil service a Grade 22 officer assumes his office without taking an oath, but the Constitution prescribed oath for all armed forces personnel as compulsary, only because they bore arms. The oath must be honored; but jernaile mutterraf has committed treason.

The whole world is looking towards us and yet there is not a single person who has any regard for the constitution of Pakistan. I have also learnt that Sharifuddin Pirzada has advised to jernaile mutterraf to re-write the constitution, and that Sharifuddin alone can do it. Lets take country back to early 1900, why? Whose purpose are you gonna serve? Maybe we are giving the world a message that we are just like the ones western media has always potrayed; we cannot improve! Please think for a while, don’t let go principles on personal likes and dis-likes for NS or anyone else. We got to behave like civilized world but the sad part is the only few of my nation, who can read and write are distracted, wasting energies on non-issues.

Once again thanks.

RoohiAD

``NAAM MOMINAH WALA AYE``

Frangi_Kush Bahra Ji, reply # 71

Allah ji you are so innocent, you call your self ``Farangi Kush`` but dare not write your own name in the forum. `Suchi tusi tey hudh he kar ditty aye. Ya tey tousi baray Boohlay jay, ya phir tousi baray `Terreyal` (darpook, coward) jay`. At least show courage to write your own name. `Naam tey tusi mominah walla rakh layah way per kartoot tey ------ walay nay. Wasay mein thadi bhain haan ji`. Just because you like jernaile Mutterraf so much, I have decided to give him some respect, so in future I shall write him as jernaile Mutterraf G. `Allah karay` thadi aqul toon curtain haat jaye`. Bye Bye Bhai Ji.

Roohi Allah Ditta

In response to tariqlodi (Reply # 70)

Dear Tariq Lodi:

Your statement: `` I would have preferred at least two ministers who walk on the gutter littered streets with their trousers tugged high to their knees or ride buses and shop their own groceries, stand in a queue to pay their utility bills and live in rented house.``

Comment: British colonial rule was handed over in 1947 to a new breed of politicians and rulers who generally failed to represent the common people of Pakistan. Your preference/suggestion has some power. I tend to agree with your view, However, a simple cooptation of two such minister will not be sufficient. We need to empower the common people of Pakistan through the devolution of power and make sure that, in the long run, only experienced and tested politicians reach the Cabinet. All others, like you and me (not really politicians), act only as advisors, critics, and scholars.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

concerned: You stated, ``so far of all the people who ruled this country only NS ever came close to the possibility of realization of this dream.`` Could you explain this comment in more detail. How did NS bring Pakistan close to the realization of, ``this dream?``

Finally A Wise Man!

The harsh reality is that we as a ``nation`` have hit rock bottom to an extent that we think that a person who has been trained all his life to be defender of the consitution raped it with vengence and we clapping on his and his teams only conquer ``Pakistan``.

People have different ways of expressing their frustration and I agree with Sameer but even those who were happy puppies three weeks ago are having second thoughts about this mans intentions!

This ``Uniformed Turd`` does not have a clue of what he is doing and the example rests in Kargil.

I sincerly hope that we as a nation stop this ongoing fiasco and give these power hungry generals an exaplary punishment this time so that they dont dare do such an act to us as a nation and to the constitution of the country.

If the turd as he says doesnt know how long will it take to fix these problems the he expected NS to pull a stick out of Turds ``where the sun doesnt shine`` and fix it in a heart beat when country saw the most difficult three years at the international front.

We are expecting miracles as a nation and I believe they still do happen but you know what they take time and so far of all the people who ruled this country only NS ever came close to the possibility of realization of this dream.

FARANGI_KUSH

I assure you that RoohiAD`s comments and opinions will do no harm to Pakistani Nation or Pakistan. Pakistan faces many many problems and all need proper attention. RoohiAD`s criticisms are more directed at one person than against everyone who preferentially speaks urdu. Many people are bitter about this man`s disregard of the most sacred law of the land (constitution) and then asking the people to be law abiding citizens. This man seems to be suggesting that it is okay to run through the red light if your intentions are good. Many people do not buy his arguement and expressing it, either directly or indirectly.

Allah Ditta saab!

Reham srkar Reham karo iss qoum tey.Pehley hi innay masail haygay nay hun tussee navain navain massaley kharey kar rahe ho.

Mein kaun haan? ikk Mutterrwa,per huzoor sirf tin saal da mutterwa sun juddon pakistan bun gya tey mainoon tey putta vee nain see kay abbajan kidr lai ja rae hain-- kee putta see barra hovanga tey tussee vee millo gay ik din inter-net per.

Lekin saree umr punjab da thanda mitha panee pee kay vee sumajh nain aundee main hun vee mutterwa kyonkur haan.Koshish karanga key thora bohut jo mutterwa-pun reh gya hai unnoon vi khatam kar deyan,madad karo gay? ik list phaige deyo kay mainoon mutterway vali kehrhi harkat ya gul nain karni chaheedee.

Apnay Karachi vaale hum-umran noo maim sumjha liyanga.Vaisay vee hun saadi umraan dey loag ghutdey jaa rahay nay.Tussee shaid naujavan ho inshallah Pakistan noo muttwerwa baghair ik din dekho gay.Ik vaada karo? fair kissy noo mutterwa naa akhna.

Allah Ta`llah thwanoon siddhi rah chalan dee taufeeque devay.AAmeen.

The National Security Council, or as I would prefer to call it the National Supreme Council, has been in the minds of the armed forces for long. It is not correct a statement that armed forces have ruled over Pakistan for only 25 years, they have practically been there atleast eversince 1958 coup of Ayub Khan and the rule is a continuation only out of necessity elections ,of the selected, have been held in absence of a satisfactory validation. Now to give the armed forces legitimacy it has been installed. I am not opposed to the idea of National Supreme Council, as I gather there in America also such an institution does exist in an assembly of ten senior most judges of their supreme court and that the vacancy is automatically filled by the next senior most living retired judge. The democracies that we have experienced, where people have been installed, and even if truly elected had been lacking a system by which the people, the voters could not oust the wrongly placed persons. Because of the geography of Pakistan and the composition of our Armed forces may be the masses collectively may have doubts in giving the supreme power to the N.S.C. A way out can be found in that that the N.S.C. be supreme and the armed forces be represented in it proportionately by retired senior officers of repute. This should decide once for all the necessity to impose martial law or setting the constitution in abeyance.

As far as composition of any Commissions, we can not import angels from anywhere. And even if God himself were to come down and correct the wrong He will do it through you and me.

Tariqlodi.

Ref: #47/59.

The same qualifications were of Field Marshall Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, General Niazi Tikka Khan and Zia ul Haq and Fazle Haq, Naseer Akhtar &Babar. One is to know them through writings of General Akbar Khan, Siddiq Salik, and F.S.K. Lodi all uniformed personnel and with out civilian malice. Unfortunately the previous regimes were also star studded with Harvard, Cambridge Oxford and London graduates. Presently to me nothing has changed only the masks. Looking at the list of the cabinet one gets a feeling that stealthily sans INSAF “TEHRIK E INASAF” is being inducted. I would have preferred at least two ministers who walk on the gutter littered streets with their trousers tugged high to their knees or ride buses and shop their own groceries, stand in a queue to pay their utility bills and live in rented house.

Tariq lodi.

Has anyone had a chance to see the BBC video I mentioned in reply 57:

``The interview he gave to BBC can be seen in RealVideo at http://www.pakcyber.com/ppp/. This is a PPP site, but the video is straight from BBC.``

I would appreciate any input.

Re: RoohiAD #66

Planet Earth Calling Allah Ditta Sahib!

Planet Earth Calling Allah Ditta Sahib!

O mai kiya thale ajao jenab.

You have the best conspiracy theories that I have ever come across. They are not only mind-boggling but also amusing every single time.

BTW: Nawaz Sharif is Kashmiri. His village is in the Indian Held Kashmir.

Its not necessary to speak Punjabi to be a Punjabi-that restriction is usually applied by the Pathans. I know many Punjabis who not only don`t speak the language but unfortunately can`t even understand it.

In any case saada jernail Dilli da hoi pawain Lahore da-he`s first and foremost a Pakistani.

Regards,

Amir

I think the following article from the Washington Post does a good job of describing the current situation in Pakistan:

Pakistan`s New Regime Wins Allies

By Pamela Constable

Washington Post Foreign Service

Friday, November 5, 1999; Page A25

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, Nov. 4—Maleeha Lodhi is the sharp-tongued, iconoclastic editor of Pakistan`s best-known English language newspaper, a woman remembered by many in Washington for her three-year stint as the cultured ambassador of Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and the left-leaning People`s Party government in the mid-1990s.

Until three weeks ago, Lodhi says, she never would have dreamed of going to work for a military regime, much less becoming one of its most visible mouthpieces. But three weeks is a long time in Pakistan, where political fortunes can shift overnight, democratic rule often proves dictatorial, and many people today view the army as the country`s last remaining credible institution.

So Lodhi, 48, is about to return to Washington, this time as the ambassador representing Gen. Pervez Musharraf, who seized power Oct. 12, suspended parliamentary rule and declared himself chief executive. Her rationale--one echoed by many Pakistani democrats who now say Musharraf deserves the benefit of the doubt--is simple.

``I feel that this is my country`s last chance,`` she said this week. ``My whole life I have opposed military rule, so I had to think long and hard`` about accepting the job. But after meeting with Musharraf, she said she came away ``extremely reassured. I`ve decided to put my career on the line, because I think the military are our last chance to reform or perish.``

Similar arguments are being made by an array of liberal, secular Pakistanis, from journalists to scholars to politicians. Some endured jail and beatings as part of an opposition movement against martial law under Gen. Zia ul-Haq in the 1980s, but now they, too, are becoming apologists for a new military regime. Their change of heart may be genuine, but it is also practical, because Musharraf has made it clear he does not plan to relinquish power any time soon.

In his first news conference Monday, he repeatedly brushed off questions about a timetable for the return to democracy, saying he intends to stay until he is satisfied that his sweeping agenda of uprooting corruption, reviving the economy and reforming the political system is well underway. He hinted at a possible referendum and pledged to keep the army out of daily governance, but his message was clear.

``I will act according to the requirements of the nation and not the outside demands,`` Musharraf, 53, told reporters. Members of the suspended parliament ``were not the true representatives, and I want to give real democracy to the people,`` he said.

As the general settles into power, critics have begun to grumble about several of his controversial choices for top civilian advisory jobs, and about the unhurried pace at which he has begun establishing his government and policies. They note with concern that his top legal aide held a comparable position during Zia`s repressive tenure, and that his foreign minister-designate had prickly relations with India as an ambassador there.

Even Lodhi`s appointment, clearly an effort to reassure Washington, has been criticized as an example of cynical opportunism. One group of Pakistani Americans in Washington circulated a statement this week decrying her as a corrupt, ``glorified hustler`` and ``controversial feminist`` who is not fit to serve as ambassador.

Today, Musharraf named six ministers who will run the country`s day-to-day affairs.

Some Pakistanis, while they welcomed the ouster of unpopular prime minister Nawaz Sharif, now say they worry that Musharraf will become too comfortable in power, or that despite his promises to respect civil rights, he will be tempted to clamp down if public discontent spreads or his reform efforts meet legal and institutional resistance.

``The best martial law is worse than the worst democracy,`` said Dawood Hassan, 40, a shopkeeper in Lahore. ``There are no troops on the streets, but there is also no constitution. If you get arrested, where is the law? The army`s job is to protect our borders, not to rule the people. Let us solve the problems with the leaders we choose.``

But others, including those who were outspoken critics of Sharif`s dictatorial style, insist that Musharraf must be given a chance to enact long-overdue reforms, from instituting a uniform sales tax to prosecuting wealthy bank loan defaulters. Once powerful and moneyed Pakistanis begin to feel the pinch, they argue, the firm hand of the military may well be needed to resist their pressure.

Najam Sethi, a prominent newspaper editor in Lahore whom Sharif briefly jailed this year for criticizing his government, said it is too soon to demand a timetable for restoring democracy. But he added that Musharraf must act quickly, make tough decisions while he is still popular and put lawbreakers behind bars before the public becomes impatient.

``It`s too early to say if these guys will be as good as their word. We are keeping our fingers crossed,`` Sethi said.

Abroad, governments that initially expressed alarm about the coup d`etat continue to soften their stance. U.S. diplomats now say they will be looking for ``benchmarks`` rather than ``timetables`` in progress toward democratic rule. Last week, a visiting delegation of leaders from the Commonwealth countries, which had threatened to suspend Pakistan`s membership, went home praising Musharraf--even though he refused their key demand, to meet with Sharif.

In his first weeks in power, the general has continued to make shrewd public relations gestures aimed at sustaining the initial goodwill. Departing from Pakistan`s traditional VIP behavior, his motorcades are said to stop at red lights, and his aides declare imported goods at customs. Musharraf has also dispatched a distinguished former foreign minister and army chief to Washington, Europe and Japan as a special envoy.

Another reason for his honeymoon at home is that the failings of Sharif and Bhutto, who each served twice as prime minister after martial law ended in the 1980s, soured many Pakistanis on parliamentary politics. Both Sharif`s Pakistan Muslim League and Bhutto`s Pakistan People`s Party are now widely viewed as corrupt and incompetent, leaving the country with no credible alternative to military rule.

Today, both parties are essentially leaderless--Sharif is in military custody and Bhutto, convicted of corruption, lives in exile in London. With parliament suspended, party officials are struggling to position themselves vis-a-vis the military and find a new voice in a society that stopped listening long ago. Some Muslim League members are trying to win military approval, while others insist on remaining loyal to Sharif; but few appear to be engaged in serious soul-searching.

``Our party is at a crossroads. Our leaders have acted like dictators, and politics have been personalized instead of institutionalized. This is our last chance to learn democratic values,`` said Mian Azhar, a senior Muslim League dissident who broke with Sharif months ago.

(THE WASHINGTON POST)

RoohiAD

Jernaile Mutterraf wants to be known as a Lahori!

Well beleive it or not jernaile Mutterraf wants to be known as a Lahori (Punjabi) contrary to the fact that he can`t even speak punjabi, probably he thinks Punjabi as inferior. Jernaile Mutterraf has instructed his military intelligence that the word be spread in interior Punjab that jernaile Mutterraf belongs to Lahore. Then the jernaile claims, he has no political motives; LOL. Let me tell you one thing, when Pakistan came into being, like everyone else, Punjabis were enthusiastic, rather over enthusiastic as my dad recalls. Punjabis played `Ansars` role, they open heartedly accepted Urdu as national language, but Bengalis and Sindhis never did not. Punjab has sufferred because of its giving and scarificing nature. In 1965 and 1971 and now 1999, most of, rather all of shaheeds were from Punjab. I am pleased to say that for past five decades, never ever a government with a Punjabi head of state was never formed through the back door channels. In recent past government from Punjab was formed through elelctions, twice democratically elected PM Nawaz Sharif`s government. This had scared enemies of Pakistan, first time NS was removed though he was doing excellent, again through army pressure; second time the enemies didn`t play it simple,but announced support of NS government and lead to its intriguing downfall. When NS came to power, in both tenures, the opposition formed alliance, and leaders from smaller provinces, mostly feudals, refused to work with NS. Displaying highest level of hatred for Punjab leadership originated from a mid class. Opposition claimed that smaller provinces are being neglected. All the four marshall laws where either imposed by NWFP or Mutter jernails. What is all this nonsense? I beleive that enemies of Pakistan know that they cannot break Pakistan unless the largest province is deprieved of its rights. So their agents in Pakistan continue to do so, and if jernaile Mutterraf on his mission, leading us to another, rather final disaster; To break Pakistan jernaile ji you will have to get rid of NS, may be hang NS and other popular leaders of Punjab, rsulting a strong wave of resentment in Punjab. Keep it up jernaile ji, Allah Hafiz Pakistan. But mind it, if you dare do so, we are still there, we will snatch your skin.

Roohi A Ditta

YET MORE DISAPPOINTMENT OVER CABINET MEMBERS

Ref: Zeemax thanks for the clarification, now I know we have at least someone sensible at this forum!

Usman Aminuddin, though an oil and gas industry related professional, is yet not a suitable selection for the post of minister for petroleum and natural resources. Usman runs his own bussiness in collaboration with one `Shahzad International`` of Islamabad, owned by one Zahid Muzaffar, son of a retd. army general. These people are notorious for being class-I crooks, and their roots are spread deep into the ministry of petroleum and natural resources, that includes Gulfaraz, secretary, the oppotunitist and most dishonest person in the oil industry. Gulfaraz made a shady deal on award of Qadirpur contract for $ 105 million to an Italian firm to oblige the then COAS, general Mirza Aslam Beg. Please note the Italian bid as US$ 43 million more expensive than the lowest bid of a Canadian company that was in full compliance. This great service of Gulfaraz(we better write him Gulloo) gave him a green card with miltary intelligence and ISI ever since. Gulloo was inducted by Benazir, general mirza Aslam Beg helped him survive through with Nawaz tenure, and Gulloo is still in there. All deals for oil and gas industry related concessions and contracts are made through this group of crooks. Well they can serve generals purpose for making easy money over oil deals but imagine how much they are going to loot to give a part of it to the generals.

It appears like general Mutterraf with all his sincerity continues to head for a greater disaster.

Roohi Allah Ditta

Re UR # 56

Yes Omar Asghar Khan is Asghar Khan ( Aaloo)`s son. Prety decent character. Will ruin his career in local bodies. Bad decsion for him to accept this assignment. He had the potential for better.

MORE DISAPPOINTMENT OVER THE CABINET AND NSC MEMBERS --- WHY NAWAZ ACTED ON THE LAST DAY OF GENERAL MUTTERRAF`s TOUR TO SRI-LANKA

General Mutterraf`s cabinet is a complete disappointment, and so is the NSC team. General Moinuddin has been assigned ministery of interior only based on the fact that he has personnel score to settle against Nawaz. Please recall only less than a year ago, general Moinuddin had to resign from his position as governor after a meeting with Nawaz. Close associates of Nawaz claim than general Moin was involved in other activities than what his job as governor demanded from him. General Mutterraf has brought him in position so that he can put his iron hand on muslim league. So what is the difference in governance, Mutterraf? Similar sort of news are there for Sharifuddin Pirzada, Atiya Inayat Ullah and Mohammad Yaqoob.

In military takeover, one important event is the fact that general Mutterraf had gone for a three day visit to SriLanka, where he had conference with the army chiefs of SAARC, most important being Indian COAS. It would have been reasonable for Nawaz to dismiss mutterraf the day he had left, if the reason was some ongoing dispute. But why Nawaz acted on the third and last day of general Mutterraf visit to Srilanka, why? Certainly some new information from intelligence circles had surfaced to Nawaz`s ear by that time. Tight lipped diplomats claim a secret meeting of general Mutterraf with indian COAS. Who knows why India has not strongly condemned the military coup in Pakistan? Indian reaction to present coup in Pakistan is lot more mild than to earlier 1958 and 1977 military takeovers, which were openly condemned by India. Well the general Mutterraf of Dehli might turn out to be gobachev of Pakistan. WAKE UP COUNTRY MEN, WATCH LIKE HAWKS, THESE ARE BANARSI TUGS. If we loose this last chance, as plans seem to be, Allh forbid, we might loose our independence.

Re UR # 57

Don`t you know Khushwant Singh is an old lecher ? Hangs around with prostitutes and even transvestites (hijras) most of the time ? Haven`t you read his books ? He admits it all so I won`t wrong him.

That was no fatherly peck on the cheek. He may have had a hand on her butt too. And the girl must have been infatuated with such a larger than life figure as Khushwant Singh. Nothing political about it though and Saif-ur-Rehaman had no need to kick up a fuss about it. Just a lechorous old man and a starry eyed young girl.

RoohiAD # 60

The reason for Nawaz not to have dismissed ex-jernail during the his three days abroad was technical. Under the rules of business of the federal government, senior Govt functionaries cannot be dismissed when they`re abroad. They have to be in Pakistan territory. That`s the law.

You may recall when Junejo was dismissed as Prime Minister, Gen Zana-ul-Haq waited till the aircraft was over Pakistan airspace coming from China before he issued the orders. Otherwise those would have been illegal and null and void.

Ex-jernail dogface was dismissed when his aircraft entered Pakistan airspace. Just a technical reason.

Roohi pls. contribute to ``He had no choice``. We miss you there.

Re: #47

Rahat Sahib,

You have a few misconceptions about our soldiers. Let me try to clarify. All three branches of our Armed Forces recruit their future officers at undergraduate level, i.e., right after high-school (some earlier). Two to three years in their respective academies results in a Bachelor`s degree in either Science or Arts depending on the subjects chosen by the cadet. The educational process does`nt stop here. In the Army, e.g., you have to go through, Infantry, Armour or Artillery School, etc., depending on your Arms. To qualify for command on a tactical level, i.e., battalion/brigade size, the officer must complete the course (around 2-3 years, if I remember correctly) at the Command and Staff College. Which is a very prestigious institute and attracts officers from all over the world. To become eligible for the General Staff Officer, senior officers (Brigadier level) are required to complete the course at the National Defense Academy. The courses taught in all of these institutes cover Military History, Tactics, Strategic Sciences, Leadership, etc. to name just a few. This sort of training and continuing education for officers is not unique to Pakistan but is followed in every Armed Force of the world. So, to reply to your statement, our General Sahib is not just inter-pass (second division) but most probably holds a couple of Bachelor`s degrees and an M.S. in Strategic Sciences from Quad-i-Azam Univ. He of course has the added distiction of having served in the Special Services Group, which to me translates as one tough warrior. Most guys who join the Army, thinking that there would be no book-learnin` here usually get a shock.

As for our booze-drinking Yahya Sahib, I just want to say that when are we going to get over this booze-drinking-evilness syndrome. Our Shair-i-Mashriq, Allama Iqbal was a much heavier drinker than Gen. Yahya. How come you mullahs have no problems with him. As for Gen. Yahya, most soldiers who served with him will tell you that he was one of the most professional and compotent soldiers of his time, and his drinking never affected his work. Besides, most officers at that time indulged themselves. I can think of one exception-Gen. Zia- Our own ``mard-i-momin`` was known not to touch alcohol. I think we are all aware of what he did to our country.

Don`t you think its time to stop talking ``jahalat``. Being a Mulsim does`nt simply mean-``avoiding alcohol & pork & praying five times a day``. I am not condoning drinking, I just think that as long as the habit is not affecting the preformance of an individual or affecting people around him, its none of others` business. Let the guy drink, if its a sin, Allah will sort him out in his own good time.

I`ll trade one Yahya for a million Benazirs, Zias, Sharifs and other misc. riff-raff anytime.

In response to UR (Reply #57)

Dear UR:

Najam Sethi saga is necessary to be told repeatedly. I share you views. I published the following letter on May 15, 1999. It was triggered by two events: (1) the letter of Mr. M. Aslam Khan (an eight-five year old Pakistani); and (2) the kidnapping of Najam Sethi.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Frontier Times, Peshawar

Letters to Editor

A wise citizen`s lamentations

This is in response to Mr. M. Aslam Khan`s letter. With some reservation, I endorse and admire his views. He is undoubtedly a wise senior citizen of Pakistan. I wish I could speak with such eloquence when I reach the age of 85.

I came to Pakistan with my parents some 52 years ago. As an observer and participant, I have seen the plight of Pakistan with considerable concern. Despite my desire to see Pakistan grow as a respectable and prosperous country, my negativity about the future of my country has been growing enormously.

A few months back somebody asked me to identify the best and the worst things about contemporary Pakistan. My answer was the ``freedom of press`` and the ``state institutions``, respectively. At that time, the quantity and quality of material published in the free Pakistani media gave me some hope about the future of Pakistan. I developed a much more positive attitude.

I am once again a deeply concerned citizen. The apparently fake charges against several honorable journalists deserve nothing less than condemnation. I was unable to find anything wrong and objectionable in my first reading of Mr. Najam Sethi`s speech on May 1, 1999. Even if the allegations against Mr. Sethi have some credibility, I deplore the way the government has violated his basic human and citizenship rights. It is a shame that Pakistan has turned into one of the worst kinds of authoritarian regimes in human history. To me, this sounds like the ``death of a dream`` if not the ``death of state``.

Bilal Ahmad

USA.

The following is an interesting article from Najam Sethi, of Friday Times. He is an internationally respected journalist. He was hauled up from his house in the middle of the night by Nawaz`s goons, because he gave interviews against NS to BBC. His wife was locked in the bathroom.

NS had to free him due to the heavy international pressures. He was later given an award for his efforts by Amnesty International, which NS did not allow him to receive in person.

The interview he gave to BBC can be seen in RealVideo at http://www.pakcyber.com/ppp/. This is a PPP site, but the video is straight from BBC.

Here is the article:

Loyalty to Nawaz or misplaced concreteness?

Najam Sethi explains the dubious role of Ashraf Jehangir Qazi in his painful incarceration at the hands of the Sharif regime

Mr Ashraf Jehangir Qazi, Pakistan`s High Commissioner to India, was in the news last May when a ``Report`` signed by him was ``used`` by Senator Saif ur Rehman to malign, detain and harass me. Mr Qazi was in the news again recently, but this time the boot was on the other foot: his daughter was snapped in New Delhi at a public function when bon vivant author and inimitable wit Khushwant Singh bent down to ``kiss`` her on the cheek in greeting. The vernacular press in Pakistan went to town, splashing the ``objectionable`` photograph and accusing Mr Qazi`s daughter of ``impropriety`` unbecoming of a senior Muslim diplomat in an ``enemy`` and ``infidel`` country. Demands for disciplinary action against Mr Qazi were followed by suggestions that he should resign. Eventually, the Sharif government was obliged to order an ``enquiry`` into the matter, solicit an explanation from Mr Qazi and hush up the affair. Whether any other diplomat in Mr Qazi`s situation would have been similarly pardoned by the reactionary Sharif government is a moot question.

Mr Qazi is incensed that objection should have been taken and so much ``fuss`` created over a perfectly harmless gesture by Khushwant Singh. Mr Singh, explains Mr Qazi, is ``old enough to be my daughter`s great-grandfather``. He merely gave the young lady a ``fatherly peck on the cheek``. What is so wrong with that, he wonders, what is the fuss all about?

I agree with Mr Qazi. I sympathise with him because he has been unfairly mauled. It is typical of certain sections of the press to play up ``liberal`` or westernised expressions of greeting or conviviality and to scandalise ``violations`` of ``morality`` according to their blinkered concepts of cultural propriety. It seems that men and women, especially if they are not siblings or offsprings, may not, in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the Land of the Pure, shake hands in formal greeting (remember the restrictions placed on Benazir Bhutto?), let alone give one another friendly pecks on the cheek, especially if the man is alleged to be a ``dirty old infidel`` and the lady is a chaste Believer!

I am sorry that Mr Qazi has been dragged through the mud by bigots. No one, least of all a senior diplomat like Mr Qazi, should be belittled by such outrageous allegations.

But I am sorrier still that Mr Qazi refuses to understand and accept why there is no intrinsic difference between his incensed justification for condemning me for ``unwarranted`` remarks made in New Delhi and his sense of outrage for ``unjustified`` remarks made by the local press against him in the recent unhappy episode. As Mr Tahir Mirza, one of our most respected editors, wrote recently in Dawn: ``The papers which played up the Delhi picture [of Khushwant Singh pecking Mr Qazi’s daughter] were trying to pose as super-patriots and super-moralists. Mr Qazi in his letter [Report] against Mr Sethi was basically doing the same thing. Nemesis has caught up with Mr Qazi rather quickly...our confusion for the most part is not inborn, when it would perhaps be forgivable, but it is calculated confusion caused by our deliberate double-speak and double-standards. Neither our personal lives nor our public attitudes are based on principles``.

Thank you, Mr Mirza. But if it were merely a matter of subconscious double-speak, double-standards or witting confusion on the part of a ``liberal`` like Mr Qazi, I might have let matters rest. But there was much more to Mr Qazi`s behaviour vis a vis what happened to me in May than there is to the local press` fairly transparent outrage against Mr Qazi in recent times. And the time has come to set the record straight and let the facts speak for themselves. This is what happened.

My lecture at the India International Centre on 30th April ended at 6 pm. Following my talk, Mr Qazi interjected to express his own opinions. This is how Mr Qazi`s remarks were reported the following day, May 1st, by the respected Indian newspaper The Hindu: ``The High Commissioner described the scribe`s lecture as a `disappointing performance`...he quipped that Mr Sethi had broken the myth of Pakistan being a monolithic society which did not allow dissenting views (sic)..He said: `Of course, Pakistan has a whole lot of problems but the situation is not so bleak. Mr Sethi has not highlighted the advances made by Pakistan in the past five decades...he has not spoken of the GNP going up, or the fact that the Army has been put in its place (sic) and that the Prime Minister is in control (sic)...Mr Sethi`s utter pessimism is unwarranted`, said Mr Qazi``.

``There is no need for an intra-Pakistan exchange here``, advised Mr Qazi when I took the mike. Since he had been the one to launch an intra-Pakistan exchange, I was sorely tempted to respond. But I decided against it. Instead, I laid into the Indians and this is how The Indian Express described my critique of India: ``Sethi would not back off. Now he targeted the Indian elite, saying it had failed to live up to agreements made in good faith by Pakistan, for example over Siachin...India has done a great injustice to Pakistan over Kashmir and has been responsible for the dismemberment of Pakistan...Pakistan will never recognise the LoC as the international boundary...``.

Now consider the timing, form and content of the Qazi Report on my speech in New Delhi submitted to the Nawaz government by Mr Qazi. The first curious fact is that the Report was faxed by Mr Qazi to various people in Islamabad, Rawalpindi and Lahore rather than sent via the usual mode of communication, ie by cipher, to the Foreign Office in Islamabad only. TFT sources in the Foreign Office admit that this was quite unprecedented. Second, the Report was faxed not just to the Foreign Secretary, as is the case with such embassy communications, but to eight powerful people. These were: (i) Foreign Secretary in Islamabad (ii) Minister for Information and Media Development in Islamabad (iii) PSO to Chief Minister Punjab in Lahore (iv) Additional Secretary (AP) in Islamabad (v) Additional Secretary (Foreign Affairs) PM`s Office in Islamabad (vi) MINTEL in Islamabad (vii) MS to COAS GHQ in Rawalpindi (viii) Director-General (FMO) in Islamabad.

Several questions arise. Why did Mr Qazi think it necessary to fax all these people instead of the Foreign Secretary only? Did someone (Senator Saif ur Rehman or Mushahid Hussain) ring him up and ask him to write up such a Report and fax it to all these people directly?

More intriguingly, Mr Qazi`s Report is dated 30th April, the very day of my speech. This would imply that Mr Qazi went back to his office at 8 pm after the speech, sat down, wrote eight full pages comprising 37 paragraphs against me, had it all typed out and corrected and then typed out again, and then faxed the eight pages to eight people in Pakistan, notwithstanding the impossible telephonic lines between the two countries, all in the space of a few hours!

But the giveaway is the last, single-line of Mr Qazi`s Report: it says ``Clippings from India`s media are being sent immediately``. But the two clippings attached (one from the Indian Express and the other from The Hindu) are both dated 1st May (the next day) when the newspapers were published with the proceedings of the previous evening. How, in God`s name, did Mr Qazi gather and send clippings of Indian newspapers of the morning of May 1st on the evening of April 30th?

There is no doubt about it. The evidence shows that the trumped-up Report against me was written by Mr Qazi at the behest of Senator Saif ur Rehman and Mushahid Hussain who had determined to teach me a lesson for exposing the corruption of the Sharif regime and giving an interview to the BBC to that effect. These two gentlemen were originally informed of my speech by an Islamabad editor (Mr Zahid Malik) whose stringer in New Delhi had faxed him a brief news report of my lecture. Mr Malik went on PTV`s ``Saveray Saveray`` programme on Monday 3rd May to argue that ``journalists should also be held accountable, especially those like Najam Sethi who were given to criticising Pakistan abroad``. Meanwhile, Saifur Rehman and Mushahid Hussain ordered Mr Qazi to prove his loyalty to Nawaz Sharif by sending a Report of the incident accusing me of sedition. As soon as they received it from the obliging Mr Qazi, they leaked it to the local press and made arrangements to arrest and charge me with sedition and have me court-martialed by the ISI. Mr Qazi, it seems, was so blinded by ambition, or so afraid of Saifur Rehman, or so keen to prove his loyalty to Nawaz Sharif, like so many other civil servants before him, that he didn`t think twice before doing the needful.

Mr Qazi`s Report became the basis of a sedition charge-sheet against me in the Supreme Court. Fortunately, the SC threw it out because it was so patently trumped-up. Then it became the basis of a sedition charge-sheet against me before the Anti-Terrorist Court in Islamabad by PML MNA Amanullah Niazi. Fortunately, the case was dismissed for ``lack of evidence``. Finally, it became the basis of a petition against me in the office of the Chief Election Commissioner in Islamabad in which PML MNA and Parliamentary Law Secretary Zafar Ali Shah demanded that I be declared a non-Muslim and banned from voting. Fortunately, the CEC dismissed the petition last month.

My family and I have been through hell at the hands of Nawaz Sharif, Saif ur Rehman and his cohorts. But there is not one word of self-criticism or apology from Mr Qazi. All he has been able to bring himself to say is that his Report was ``confidential`` and not meant to be abused. Indeed, in an interview with an Indian magazine, he has denied that he ever accused me of ``treasonable`` activity, preferring instead to call my behaviour ``contemptible and treacherous``. If that were the case, I wonder why he saw fit to send the Report by fax to eight people in Pakistan and why he saw fit to backdate it? Indeed, why didn`t he formally protest the ``abusive`` treatment meted out to his Report by Senator Saif ur Rehman who not only made it public but also used it to frame charges of ``treason`` against me in three different courts of law over the period of over two months? Mr Qazi’s stunning silence speaks volumes, as they say.

Mr Tahir Mirza has accused Mr Ashraf Jehangir Qazi of being guilty of double-standards. But I am within my rights to wonder whether, like several other notable civil servants, Mr Qazi is also guilty of putting personal ambition and loyalty to Nawaz Sharif before professionalism and objectivity. This is in marked contrast to a man of integrity like General Pervez Musharraf who, without knowing me personally, read the full text of my original speech, compared it to the trumped-up Qazi Report put before him, refused to court-martial me despite pressure from the civilian government and ordered the ISI to make sure that no harm came to me while in detention. My final moment of vindication came on October 12 and October 17 when, before the whole world, including India, General Musharraf painted a more bleak picture of Pakistan under Nawaz Sharif than I had done and set about trying to put things right as I had desperately hoped for in my ``contemptible and treacherous`` speech. As it transpired ironically enough, Nawaz Sharif had not been able ``to put the army in its place``, as predicted by Mr Qazi, but the army had put Nawaz Sharif in his place as many Pakistanis had desperately hoped.

Was Mr Qazi more loyal than the King? Or was it simply a case of misplaced concreteness? Given Mr Qazi`s normally urbane demeanour, I would like to believe that it was the latter. But given Nawaz Sharif`s talent for extracting the worst out of people, I fear it might have been the former. Whatever the reason, it exacted a terrible price from me. At the very least, if he has any decency in him, Mr Qazi owes me an unqualified apology.

(THE FRIDAY TIMES)

Sethi has been a critic of both NS and BB. Nawaz Sharif alleged that he had actually locked up Sethi, without a trial, because Sethi gave an anti-Pakistan speech in India. I had a chance to read the text of the speech, and I thought his criticism of both India and Pakistan was very valid. Anyways, giving a speech in India is not a crime, under Pakistani law. The actual cause of the arrest was because Sethi exposed NS to BBC. I would highly encourage the readers to check out the BBC documentary.

The cabinet has finally been announced, as follows:

Finance: Shaukat Aziz

Foreign Affairs: Abdus Sattar

Interior & Narcotics Control: Lt.Gen(R) Moinuddin Haider

Food & Agriculture: Dr Shafqat Ali Shah Jamot

Commerce, Industry & Production: Abdul Razzaq Daud

Education, Science & Technology: Zubeida Jalal

Local Govt & Rural Development: Omar Asghar Khan

Labor, Manpower & Health: Abdul Malik Kansi

Some info about Zubeida Jalal:

Five Pak women’s profile of courage

Together with writer Fehmida Riaz, lawyer and rights activist Hina Jillani, dancer Indu Mitha and educationist Zubeida Jalal, the five profiled their ``lives of courage’’ at a meeting organised here to commemorate International Women’s Day.

Well-known educationist Zubeida Jalal started a veritable revolution by teaching girls to read and write in remote villages of Balochistan province where women simply did not exist. There they believed that if a girl is educated she will write love letters, Jalal said.

(The Tribune, India)

Some info on Omar Asghar Khan:

Mr. Omer Asghar Khan

A development economist by profession he gained his BA from the University of Peshawar. He then went on to gain a BA (HONS) in Economics from Essex University in the United Kingdom. Further to this he achieved an M.Phil. in Economics from cambridge University.

He has Previously worked as lecturer in the Development of Economics at Punjab University he has also worked as a member of the faculty/Execution committee for the Pakistan institute of Labour Education. he has also served as the executive chief of SEBCON (Pvt) Ltd. Currently he is the Exective Director of the Sungi Development Foundation.

He is a member of the board of following institutions. LEAD Pakistan, Strengthening Participatory Organisations (SPO), National Selection Committee, LIFE, United Nations Development Program in pakistan.

Throughout his career he has authored/co-authored many reports, research papers, publications in the field of Development economics and the NGO sector in Pakistan.

(www.lead.org.pk)

Is this guy the son of Asghar Khan, and a politician-turned-philanthrapist?

MQ_RAHAT # 54

This news was very puzzling because Wasim Sajjad was considered an army favorite for a long time. I do not understand why he has fallen out with them. Earlier indications actually suggested him to be included in NSC or even as president. It seems there is lot more going on behind the scenes than what is commonly known.

I wonder what is this document about?

AN-OTHER CONQUEST OF PAK-ARMY - CELEBRATE MY COUNTRY-MEN

I am reproducing the NEWS item published in the Nov. 3 internet NEWS UPDATE of the DAILY NEWS.

QUOTE:

Wednesday, November 03, 1999 -- Rajab 24, 1420 A.H.

Army raids Senate Chairman`s office

(Updated at 1230 PST)

ISLAMABAD: The military forces, on Wednesday, raided the office of the Senate Chairman Waseem Sajjad, apparently for the latter`s refusal to hand over certain confidential documents to the forces, it was reported.

UN-QUOTE

What are you and your people looking for, Mr. general Mutterraf. Most likely it is an attempt to prevent the Senate Chairman from proceeding to SUPREME COURT OF PAKISTAN, preventing him from challenge your illegal rule our our homeland, in the court of law. Or an attempt to destroy the evidence of conspiracy that general Musharraf and others had hatched against the elected government and the people of Pakistan, known as a video cassette and audio tape of general Mutterraf and general Aziz conversation. Clelebrate my country-men, your army has once again conquered your own country, Pakistan.

Rahat

bahmad #52: You stated, ``Most army personnel are not at all guilty. But, somebody is definitely guilty. We need to understand the process of corruption in our armed forces. The question is, how?`` I think the above sums up what I have tried to say. We definitely need to catch the corrupt among the military. It would be great if Gen. Musharraf starts accountability from the military. Someone needs to do that.

At the same time, I am quite convinced the military is much less corrupt, as an institution, than the civilian bureacracy. I have come across both. Infact I seriously considered joining the civil services, after the military, but did not do so because I knew I would more than likely have to indulge in, or at least turn a blind eye to corruption.

The main reason for the military being, ``cleaner`` than the civil is because people in the military do not really get a chance to be corrupt, until they get to the very high ranks. This process over the years has resulted in a relatively clean institution, with strong traditions. However, when the military has been exposed for long durations of time to the civilian sector, they have become corrupt. You will see many retired, and serving military officers who have been posted to civilian posts, slowly getting involved in corruption.

Another deterence to corruption in the military is the fact that the officers join the military as teenage cadets (between the ages of 15-18). So they never get the initial exposure to corruption, that everyone else gets. Their true exposure occurs when they become senior officers. In my thirteen years in the military, I never had a single opportunity to be involved in any type of corruption. So I was able to earn an honest living. Had I spent the same time in the Civil Services, I would have had thousands of chances. And then who knows, what path I would have followed.

Pakistan is very lucky that the military has not allowed itself to be tampered with by the politicians. The politicians split up the judiciary, but were unsuccessful in splitting up the army. Whether one supports the coup or opposes it, one must admire the way the senior officers of the military stuck together, and did not allow the politicians to break into their ranks. If other institutions (like the judiciary) showed this kind of cohesiveness, then I doubt the polticians would have been able to break these institutions apart, either.

Even if NS had been successful in removing Musharraf, I doubt the corps commanders would have accepted Gen Ziauddin as their commander. Since he was junior to most of them, and had not been nominated by the previous chief, the corps commanders would have probably all resigned. A country in which the corps commanders all resign is in big trouble. The good thing about the military is that the loyalty of the officers and men is to the military and not to their provinces, ethnicities, sects etc.

The military needs to stay out of politics, and the politicians need to stay out of the military.

In response to UR (Reply #: 51):

Dear UR:

Your seem to be an honest and reasonable person. I have developed respect for you.

Army is one institution in Pakistan that definitely has a better record than most other institutions in Pakistan. Among the Armed forces, PAF seems to be much more professional. Moreover, most young army officers are extremely ambitious, hardworking, and conscientious citizens of Pakistan. We, however, need to bring two important and interrelated factors in this picture: (1) power; (2) corruption.

Marx argues that capitalists accumulate for the sake of accumulation. The capitalists don`t ``need`` money but their desire to accumulate never fails to cease. Both Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto are filthy rich, yet they act if they are extremely poor. They had to accumulate money even if it came from corrupt sources (such as kickbacks). Money is power. Another source of power is political power. Our so-called leaders want political power by all means. History has taught us some lessons about such politicians. As long as we keep on imposing such politicians upon us, they will keep on exploiting us both economically and politically.

Pakistani people were not angles at the inception of our country. They have slowly, gradually, and consistently become more and more corrupt. In 1947, a small fraction of common people were corrupt (from the present standards), but now corruption has deeply ingrained in our society. Yet we still have a reasonably large number of ``fools`` who either do not have guts to become corrupt or simply do not want to be corrupt (as a matter of personal choice).

Our army personnel are recruited from our society. The more there is corruption in society, the more are the ``chances`` of corrupt people entering in our armed forces. Remember, our society is unequal too. It is controlled by the rich and powerful and their supporters. I don`t believe that our armed forces (as an institution) are very much free of the vices that exist in our society. Yet, in view of the needs of this institution, the chances of corruption are significantly lower. As long as the army is controlled by the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats, it will continue to serve their interest (even if they do it unwillingly). But, corruption has a process of proliferation. It penetrates slowly and gradually and colonizes even those who are only marginally honest. Once you engage in marginally corrupt actions and start enjoying them, you open the Pandora`s box depending upon the opportunities and your ability to take some risks. Having said this, I know that most army personnel are honest, decent, and dedicated people who want to serve with honor and dignity. I also agree with you (as you once maintained) that most young officers hardly sustain themselves and their families.

Most army personnel are not at all guilty. But, somebody is definitely guilty. We need to understand the process of corruption in our armed forces. The question is, how?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. There is a news clipping on the Information Times about Dr. Maleeha Lodhi (November 2, 1999). It is worth reading. My friend, Dr. Feroz Ahmed (now deceased), once talked very highly about her as the Ambassador of Pakistan. Information Times story has raised serious doubt in my mind.

bahmad: #45: My information about military deals is about as good as yours, i.e second hand. I have quite a few friends in the PAF; some of whom are flying F-16s. But none of them has access to the financial side of the deal. I agree with you that it is hard to obtain information about these deals. I have tried hard but have been unsuccessful. Believing in the concept of, ``innocent, until proven guilty (or until enough documented evidence is available,`` I will have to give the PAF the benefit of the doubt.

One thing I do know is that unlike many civilian projects which turn into failures because kickbacks are involved, the F-16 project is a big success operationally. The PAF has operated the aircraft as efficiently as any country in the world, including the US and Israel. Also, the aircraft were definitely needed, due to the various threats to Pakistan.

I think the F-16s are the most technically sophisticated piece of equipment being used in Pakistan. Perhaps, even more technically advanced than the nuclear project. Were there kickbacks involved? I don`t know, and I doubt too many people know.

Having been exposed to both the civilian side and the military side of Pakistan, I have found the military, as an institution, to be far less corrupt than the civil. Corruption is yet to be institutionalized in the day to day life of the military. There are various reasons for this. The most important one is that only the senior military officers have access to areas where they can be corrupt. Very few officers below the ranks of Brigadier are exposed to these areas. So, by default, they have to be honest. In the civilian world, even a sepoy or clerk has the opportunity of being corrupt. Secondly, since corruption is not institutionalized in the military, a junior member of the military will really stand out, if he is corrupt. This adds some deterence, as well. Unlike the civilian world, in the Pakistan military an officer can get through his whole career without having to do any kind of corruption. While in the civil, even for the smallest legitimate tasks, one has to resort to corruption.

The story at the top levels of the military is different. I think that corruption does exist amongst the generals. Again, the information available is heresay. But I would have to say there must be some validity to the rumors.

On the whole, in my opinion, the military is not nearly as corrupt as the civilian bureacracy. Again, the main reason is that they (especially the non-generals) have very little opportunity to be corrupt. This is why it is so important that the military not be exposed to, or be interfered with by the civilian governments. The civilian governments should decide the budget, size and strategic objectives of the military. After that, they should leave the execution completely to the military personnal.