Masters of Mimicry

Fazilat, you did not merely suggest ``update the system`` for that is a cliched protest - and obviously agreeable. You came at this by attacking Enid Blyton and how you were forced to empathise with ``blue eyed girls`` and your suggestion that English curriculum not be booted because ``the citadels of colonial enterprise tower too high to be broken down with such ease``. Poor Fazilat caught in a prison cell surrounded by guard towers (wo)manned by Enid Blyton and those ``colonial`` writers``. And forced to think that ``only lifestyles worth studying are of

those who speak in clipped accents and freckle on a sunny day``.

My question is : did you ever read urdu ki pehli kitaab all the way to urdu ki 10th kitaab? Did you ever read dastaan-e-ameer-hamza or Ishtiaq Ahmed or Bang-e-dara? No because YOU and your parents or your students and their parents CHOSE O Levels (and even in O levels they do not teach anything that is not universally a human experience) Ask us those of us who went to the peela school or those of us who have to drive you snooty b_astards to and from your workplace. You chose that and then you denigrate ``oh I know I had a first class education in the swiss alps and went skiing for P.T. period .... but I really would have preferred relating to my roots and origins and how 30 people live in a tin shed``. Your parents chose to send you to those ``farangi`` schools because they did not want you to have anything to do with the rest of us. Which is fine - just don`t come back whining ``oh I really think living in tin sheds is so natural and earthy!``. Don`t give further justifications to our fathers and mothers so that they can send more children to hell and urdu medium schools. If I had not accidently stood first in class I would have never owned an english book. Those two enid blyton books changed my life. I wanted to read more about chivalry, about how Mr. Pink Whistle might be walking down with his magic and would gift me if I was kind to the ``galli ka kutta`` (street dog).

If I had the choice would I have chosen to study sindhi, keemyaath (chemistry in retarded text) and arabic over French / ballet or piano lessons? No way. You don`t step out of your corollas and houses in defense - you walk around apathetic and scornful around karachi only to come and tell the scorned that they should dig a deeper hole and stick closer to their native condition rather than aspire and see the possibilities. The west gave me possibilities ! I can have love without abusing or subjugating a woman or a non muslim, I can live and speak and write and express myself freely without fearing ``the chaos and immorality and the wrath of allah``. You want original thinkers and writers? burn the nearest mosque down. They are the enemies of ``innovation`` (bidah). You want us to relate and relive our sordid lives? String a Mullah for they are the enemies of progress and economic prosperity (``Brothers, materialism is bad, spirituality is good, and you were not born of apes! now please donate all your money in the path of allah so that your other brothers can die for the establishment of another mosque and feudal colony in afghanistan, chechnya ...``) Instead of advocating hatred towards the people who are already too hard on themselves (I have not seen a single american or european who does not constantly castigate his own country, religion and value system, they SEEK to change despite being better of) you should be asking us to rethink our rabid conservatism - our fanatical obsession with a past and (arab) ``Way of life`` that has and still fails us.

I feel Solitude`s reponse begs to be responded to. It is interesting that you determine marital aspirations and desired skirt lengths from an article speaking about how an indigenous element is missing in our English medium system of education. I find it interesting because this is a mentality that I have encountered quite often amongst Pakistanis living abroad or Pakistanis who have been living away long enough that the the entire South Asian region melts into two predominant factions - that of Islamic fundamentalists or Pro-American liberalists. Characteristic of this black and white mentality, you incorporate religion into your response where I never mentioned this subject in my article. Your assumption that I am advocating madrasah education is also very strange since I thought I was endorsing a system of education that was opposite to the stereotypical madrasah method. I don`t see the reason for this excitement and gasping monologues when what is being suggested here is that we find some way to relate what is happening to a student`s immediate environment in school textually and conceptually. I dont see why we should have to continue to use the same texts that we have since 1947. Nobody is saying Amreeka is the great Satan. . .it is more the case of stagnancy being the great Satan and that is where we are. More than anything else we are at fault for plundering along teaching the same old texts, sitting with the same old teaching methods when education is anything but unchanging. And what is the point of preserving something that is outdated and therefore not relevant. I don`t see what can be gained from that.

Knowledge should be power. What power can education give when it teaches students to relate and emulate to a not so distant culture from a distant land?

As a teacher one must give credit to Ms.Thaver for identifying this problem and putting it forward.She is in a very powerful position. The attitude of her brown sahibs towards the not so priveledged depends upon their education no?

How could they empathize with others who have not been born into such secure circumstances as they are, if they are not made aware?

The British never empathized. Would their education system?

Bravo. It`s about time someone wrote on this issue. I hope that through your efforts you can create an atmosphere that will breed original thinkes. It is only when we think for ourselves that we are able to get beyond being brain washed into believing whatever the current politicians or religious leaders have to say. It is through education and original thought that people better themselves and their countries. It is only through original thought that people are free to create and cause change. We need great thinkers because that is what great countries are made of.

BINA#

You are a talented writer with broad knowledge.All of my knowledge spl. pertaining to this post were acquired outside the curriculum of graduate & post graduate ``Studies``

``Why do we have to wait for teachers to teach us something before we

accept that subject as ``valid``? ``

You dont & you shouldnt.Inspite of that we have versions of history & before condemning others one should prove its validity EITHER LEARNT IN LECTURE HALL OR INTERNET!I dont put one over the other per se.may be you mistook me being not as good communicter as you are!

This may sound a little too simplistic, but after reading Durdana`s post, and thinking about it, I have to say that I`m just grateful to have *any * education whatsoever. But if you`re not fortunate enough to experience an education that is inclusive of your culture, and, until school and university courses become more inclusive, you can always pick up a book and educate yourself. No one taught me about Sufi poetry in college but the point of going to college is to start a process whereby you become a student all your life, and hopefully keep learning long after you have received your degree. So I`ll go to libraries, bookstores, the Internet, whatever, to learn what teachers didn`t think was important enough in school. Why do we have to wait for teachers to teach us something before we accept that subject as ``valid``?

PS. Orgies in Defence? Where? Have lived here sixteen years and I never saw any!

Solitude #29,30

``Our world is the epitomy of stagnation because new and fresh and

offensive and blasphemous ideas are not allowed to be spoken, published

or expressed. Our people are mostly illiterate, our rulers and clerics

intend to keep it that way (``western influence will destroy them``) You

remind me of the people who stoned and garlanded Sir Syed Ahmed with a

``Chappal Ka Haar`` (necklace of shoes) when he went around begging people

for donations for his university where they would teach ``western

innovations``. Why would some people be so resistant to lessons learned

by human beings from outside can be attributed to xenophobia, or simply

that the priveleges you enjoy seem to be threatened. Perhaps you do not

feel adequately prepared to handle the minds who will be freed and

enlightened - when our people REALLY start to read but instead you would

like to squash this ``trend`` (haha) of reading ``colonial literature``

before it starts. Guess what? You were given that voice by that very

same literature and the power to right by those very same people. YOU

are the produce of that ``colonial literature``.

Your beef is against1/RELIGION 2/Muslims opposition to sir syed ahmed Khan 3/paronia against already english educated trying to hold back future generation

The problem of religion(any religion,christian,hindu,jewish..)is universal & not confined to Islamic blashphemy.Hindus killed gandhi for advocating removing caste system,Galileo was convicted by the then pope for saying earth was round,because according to the bible then it wasnt so.In every religion certain section are close minded & its not religions problem but its interpretation.In ISLAM some progressive people feel ISLAM has given independence to individuals ,without being an ullemma & fazil to use reasoning,common sense,TAJDID to guide them in areas where there has not been PRECEDENCE & no clear directive.Regarding purdah it is not required that one should stay at home all the time,not even veil is necessary,its more of hollywood depiction of muslim wich we reinforce by buying that image.A modest dress should be enough to work any where from hospitals to air lines.

Sir SYED AHMED KHAN was the first critic of west without being against western education Spl.sciences.If he just advocated English & western Education he didnt need a new university.It was already going on 100 yrs prior to opening of Aligarh Muslim University e.g.Calcutta,Benares,Lahore unversity.He wanted to include curriculam in Islamic studies,Deenyat,Islamyat as in Pakistan after 47.I like ,sir syed by no means discourage english or western education but just Aligarh University is a reminder of honoring the religous heritage lest, it be overwhelmed by``ENGLISH EVERYTHING``.

I dont know where you get this message that all those who criticize MIT,harvard is suggesting by any means, not going there,by all means.Its only people who have been there can give a meaningful critique of anything.Criticism i am sure ,you will agree is not condemnation but a perspective on anything.It is also sign of confidence which i look in my role model for it means not only does he know what knowledge is BUT ALSO WHAT IT ISNT.

You seem very intimately closely knowledgeable about Islamic society & its hangups. Therefore ,You are very admirable in its criticism,but would you suggest some one not to be muslim.You would still want someone to go through the learning process of living in Muslim society and be able to recognize its defeciencies & work on alleviating mis appropritatian in its practice.Thorough knowledge of the subject is prequisite to its critique.

Strange how, while I was reading The Adventures of Mr. Pink Whistle I read this passage about a boy helping an old woman cross the road and I was so touched I put my book down and hung around the street corner for over half an hour just staking out old women who were trying to cross the road but had to go back because I the book was gnawing at me ``read me ! read me!`` ...

whereas you were threatened by ``blue eyed`` girls ... let me correct the quote I wrote earlier :

``western men objectify women when they allow them to wear whatever they want *gasp * even skirts and bikinis! how immoral! that is why I like you homely bearded boys ... I really prefer the simple veils but it causes rashes on my soft softy skin ... I guess someone will have to marry me and buy me a veil of better quality but where can I find a man like that today ? all these boys just want to go to Umrika! always umrika this, Europe that! running after those *blue-eyed * white sluts! tauba tauba chhi chhi chii kya zamana agaya hai they have been brainwashed I tell you... ``

Our world is the epitomy of stagnation because new and fresh and offensive and blasphemous ideas are not allowed to be spoken, published or expressed. Our people are mostly illiterate, our rulers and clerics intend to keep it that way (``western influence will destroy them``) You remind me of the people who stoned and garlanded Sir Syed Ahmed with a ``Chappal Ka Haar`` (necklace of shoes) when he went around begging people for donations for his university where they would teach ``western innovations``. Why would some people be so resistant to lessons learned by human beings from outside can be attributed to xenophobia, or simply that the priveleges you enjoy seem to be threatened. Perhaps you do not feel adequately prepared to handle the minds who will be freed and enlightened - when our people REALLY start to read but instead you would like to squash this ``trend`` (haha) of reading ``colonial literature`` before it starts. Guess what? You were given that voice by that very same literature and the power to right by those very same people. YOU are the produce of that ``colonial literature``. Who is the produce of the ``no colonial native`` literature? the taxi driver who drives you around in NYC who only read the quran without understanding it. And what would you like to do ? YOU and people like you who were able to make it Harvard and MIT and other liminous institutions go back to Pakistan to denigrate Western education (``oh useless stuff! COLONIALIST IMPERIALIST literature, never benefited from it! read the quran my friend because it gave me PEACE of mind and blessed my soul!... go read and keep yourself busy with reading while I torment over my terrible life in that condo in long island or better yet maybe I will pensively brood over how colonial literature scarred me in my mansion in virginia! ok tah tah bye bye I mean FI AMANIL ALLAH!``)

You know full well that Pakistanis in general and Muslims in particular do not value education (Anecdote: The Qadiani/ Ahmedi Dr. Abdussalam the Noble laureate never got recognition from Muslims; even when he topped in India it was the hindu neighborhood he was passing through that came out of their houses to congratulate/kiss and offer him sweets) you are re inforcing that prejudice against outside sources of information that threatens the chains that bind our people into a religion of submission. What is taught in Pakistani Schools ? certainly not enid blyton! maybe in elite schools where the children of feudal lords go... but not in your peela-school where we are taught URDU! and then suddenly thrust into a world of English speakers DOMINATED by people like you - who come to us and tell us ``English is bad language, go to a madrasah learn arabic and farsi and urdu and then fight for more land for my feudal lord father in afghanistan and die so that I can expend pity on your wife and make her my fourth war-widow and charity case!``

What did western education do to me ? I spoke for the rights of women (my own mother and sister) and I stood up against my father who wonders ``You are neither a woman nor a non muslim yet ... you are crazy!`` I stood up against tyranny passed as ``culture`` or ``religion`` or ``tradition`` and introduced my sisters to Virginia Woolf and Emma Thompson NOT so that they can become ``farangi`` as you would have us believe. So that they can get inspired and pick up their battered souls and rise against people like you ! YOu Grammarians and St.-this-school-and-that-school.

For *gasp * god forbid my unfortunate sisters should show up in your functions at PECHS society or the orgies in Defense and threaten your status as the ``western educated``-but-``ohh I really dont care about western education I would rather pick one of you common urdu speaking boys because I love my country and my religion ... ``-self or challenge your ``personal interpretations of Islam`` allowing you to wear and say whatever you want and at the same time pity those helpless-veiled-``Western educated`` women who are trying to be ``Western`` and forgetting their ``roots`` and their ``origins`` and their ``identity`` while YOU stand there in your skirts moaning about how ``western men objectify women when they allow them to wear whatever they want *gasp * even skirts and bikinis how immoral! that is why I like you homely bearded boys ... I really prefer the simple veils but it causes rashes on my skin ... I guess someone will have to marry me and buy me a veil of better quality but where can I find a man like that today ? all these boys just want to go to Umrika! always umrika this, Europe that! running after those white sluts! tauba tauba chhi chhi chii kya zamana agaya hai they have been brainwashed I tell you... ``

Fuzair#16:

`If the Canadian experience is anything like that here in the US, it was not done by them to us. We did it to ourselves. In simple truth, compared to the hard sciences, engineering, or economics, minorities who obtain Ph.D.s tend to be severely overrepresented in such fields as sociology, political science, literature, etc. Why is that? Sowell argues that that is because these degrees are easier to obtain (less

rigorous) and thus allows more minorities to lay claim to ``educated`` status.`

I tend to agree. The average GPA

of Education majors at Penn State is 3.59; while that of Engineering majors is

Fuzair#26

I bet you have been well rewarded economically by the west by being there brown sahib.

`` By Westernization I do not mean that we dream of a white Christmas or

any such nonsense but that we believe in such alien values as civil

rights, individual liberty, constitutional government, the equation of

reward and effort, secure private property rights, freedom of speech, of

religion, and all the other concepts invented by the West in the past

several hundred years or so.

The most successful non-Western society is Japan and it is also the most

Westernized.``

What makes you think that,civil rights,individual liberty,........................

are west invented?

You inquire whether we can beat the west in its own game?How many of your west can converse in any indian languages.Of course there has been one or two Rudyard Kipllings,Has nt India -Pak beaten them & a Hussain,imdian muslim heads there prideful cricket team.I havent heard a minor SHAYRI from western orientelist but see the array of best sellers in english coming from Indian subcontinent.EVEN THE DUMMEST FOOL KNOWS THERE MOTHER TONGUES.

I could admit that since the rennaisence the west has been a repository of all the cultures,artefact,knowledge,history,etc since the decline of muslim empires.BUT TO GIVE CREDITS OF ``ALL`` SINCE INVENTION OF WHEELS IS A BIT MYOPIC._SHORT SIGHTEDNESS.

Didnt you say you hit send button mistakenly,be more COMPREHENSIVE !And japan remain conservative Asian despite our devotion to the west Lock,stock & barrel.

Fuzair#

I bet you have been well rewarded economically by the west by being there brown sahib.

`` By Westernization I do not mean that we dream of a white Christmas or

any such nonsense but that we believe in such alien values as civil

rights, individual liberty, constitutional government, the equation of

reward and effort, secure private property rights, freedom of speech, of

religion, and all the other concepts invented by the West in the past

several hundred years or so.

The most successful non-Western society is Japan and it is also the most

Westernized.``

What makes you think that,civil rights,individual liberty,........................

are west invented?

You inquire whether we can beat the west in its own game?How many of your west can converse in any indian languages.Of course there has been one or two Rudyard Kipllings,Has nt India -Pak beaten them & a Hussain,imdian muslim heads there prideful cricket team.I havent heard a minor SHAYRI from western orientelist but see the array of best sellers in english coming from Indian subcontinent.EVEN THE DUMMEST FOOL KNOWS THERE MOTHER TONGUES.

I could admit that since the rennaisence the west has been a repository of all the cultures,artefact,knowledge,history,etc since the decline of muslim empires.BUT TO GIVE CREDITS OF ``ALL`` SINCE INVENTION OF WHEELS IS A BIT MYOPIC._SHORT SIGHTEDNESS.

Didnt you say you hit send button mistakenly,be more COMPREHENSIVE !

Sorry, I hit send by mistake:

The inescapable fact still exists that people in Women`s, excuse me, Womyn`s Studies, African-American Studies, Sociology, Chicano Studies, Ethnic Studies, and the like, still score much lower on standardized tests than people in other--more rigourous--departments. And the best candidates do not go to these departments. So they ghettoize themselves away from the mainstream.

Of course, one can argue that standardized tests are a very imperfect measure. To use some jargon here, its fine if its a biased estimator as long as its a consistent estimator. Its akin to having a scale that always reads three pounds heavy or five pounds light, or whatever, as long as it is consistent, you know exactly what your weight is.



Regards.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Macgupta,

Several of these famines were caused by natural disasters as the monsoons failing for three years in a row--hardly the fault of the British. Famines of similar magnitude and duration also occur in China at about the same time periods--again, hardly the fault of the British.

Re: Temporal #18

Again a common misconception about British colonial history: that the colonies were needed for cheap raw material and or markets for domestic industrial output. Most of the colonies were actually money losers for the metropolitan government although some (many?) individual`s did make a lot of money out of them.

This flawed argument arises out of Marxism`s inability to explain why capitalism did not collapse. It didn`t collapse because the capitalists had these captive markets they could squeeze. If you look at British capital flows, they go pretty mucy from the UK to the US and, especially, Latin America. India was such a dismal market that the Indian government had to guarantee a high rate of return to persuade British firms to invest in Indian railroads.

Think of it! An old British colony with decent property rights security, a functioning legal system, honest administration and the like was a less attractive market than coup-plagued Latin American countries!

Did capital go from India to the UK? Certainly. Paying the salaries and pensions of the thousands of Britishers employed in India was a considerable drain, as was paying for the British troops garrisoned there. The colonial Indian government was forever trying to reduce the level of reparations to the UK but these capital flows certainly did not make the UK rich. The Industrial Revolution was not financed by the Indian peasantry.

Dear Ms. Thaver:

I would actually include matric/intermediate and BA/BSc in the category of British-created institutions. For similar reasons I would also include all the Army Cadet Colleges and other such institutions. Its only (some of) these graduates that have an education that makes them fit for being anything more than hewers of wood or drawers of water.

Why is it somehow considered demeaning for us to beat the Gora Saab at his own game? It should be demeaning all right, but for the Goras! I for one felt some pride when, e.g., Prof. Sen or Dr. Abdus Salam won the Nobel pride--in spite of the deck being stacked against us to a certain extent. Why we need to play these kinds of games is very simple. The process of modernization/economic-development is the process of Westernization. By Westernization I do not mean that we dream of a white Christmas or any such nonsense but that we believe in such alien values as civil rights, individual liberty, constitutional government, the equation of reward and effort, secure private property rights, freedom of speech, of religion, and all the other concepts invented by the West in the past several hundred years or so.

The most successful non-Western society is Japan and it is also the most Westernized. If one looks at S. Korea or Taiwan or HK or Singapore now and compares them to what they were like 50-60 years ago, the truth of this statement becomes self-evident. Becoming gradually more Westernized is not the same as actually being Western.

The only alternative to becoming more Western is to languish in filth, disease, poverty and ignorance. Is there any society that has managed to free itself from mass poverty without beating the West at its own game? No.

But what about Kuwait? Or Saudi Arabia? Complete reliance on single-commodity export is not likely to be a successful strategy in the long-run.

I`ve sat through interminable seminars where people whine about Euro-centricism, commodity fetishes, neo-colonialism, neo-imperialism, neo-liberalism, the comprador bourgeoisie, dependency, racism, phallo-centricism, and God alone knows what else. Once, in a graduate seminar, I had the privilige of being informed, loudly, by a Womyn of Colour that the very fact that I could speak English meant that I was not an authentic voice of the Third World. Therefore, every single thing I had to say could be categorically dismissed out of hand and did not need to be refuted by logic, facts or reason. Talk about an ad hominem attack! I believe she was a Ph.D. candidate in Sociology.

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