Hegemony of the Ruling Elite in Pakistan

Musharraf Regime: A Sense of Direction?

Ayaz Amir developed a strong critique of Musharraf`s recent speech (Dawn, 17th December, 1999). Amir writes: ``what the general`s speech seemed to confirm was the most serious charge yet laid against his regime: that born in the darkness of the night it still does not have a sense of direction.``

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Ref Assad_K #: 47

You ask (Ah, so you`ve seen the Yahoo message board, have you? Heck, Pakistan comes out looking good because the couple of prize Pakistani specimens are simply swamped in terms of numbers and posts by the Indian `intellectuals` there)

I have even stopped posting there. The current crop of Indians there seem to be escapees from lunatic asylums who manage to swear a blue streak.

Try soc.culture.pakistan. That has been taken over by Indians too! I feel sorry for the Pakistanis: the cybersquatters from India are not allowing them any space of their own.

baahmad # 36

Hmmm .. interesting .. so what are YOUR conclusions Mr. Ahmad ?

Rgds

Gymnosophist re:38

Ah, so you`ve seen the Yahoo message board, have you? Heck, Pakistan comes out looking good because the couple of prize Pakistani specimens are simply swamped in terms of numbers and posts by the Indian `intellectuals` there.

In response to Amit (Reply # 44)

Dear Amit:

Well said!

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. Your choice of word Jihad for War seems somewhat inappropriate. The word Jihad has a very specific meaning. It entails a sense of holy (moral) cause, cyber war fails to pass this test. As a matter of conviction, I do not consider any (particularly offensive) war as holy and/or just. In my view, a war is a failure of human capacity to find a peaceful way to resolve conflict(s).

Re:Hamidm#31

There is a tendency among some desis, Indians and Pakistanis, to relentlessly score points against the other side. In other words, they are fighting a cyber jihad. What they don`t realize is that it is a big turn off, since no one like to be lectured. Constant criticism leaves people numb and resentful.

This typically happens to folks who have little personal experience with people from the other side. Most people in India and Pakistan grow up without knowing anyone from the other side and they internalize the government lines. Once they come abroad, they have a chance to change and develop a balanced viewpoint if they meet and socialize with the other side. They may realize that neither side is 100% right or wrong. If they do not, they continue in their old ways.

So, hang in there my friend!! Don`t let Jay drive you into the hands of the Lashkars !!

Re: The Chowk Staff

Well, another one of my post has been shot down by you. I`ve no clue why. The only reason I can think of is that it involved Jay, your favorite bigot. To make it clear, my post had no nasty words and, as compared to Jay`s post, it was quite civilized.

Liberal you may be, but fair, objective and wise? I think not.

For reasons that only you know, it appears that you want me out of Chowk. I`m going to honor that.

So long and good luck.

To hamidm, elireza and sac,

`` The elders of the west drank, partied, rebelled, blasphemed, f_cked around, had a lot of fun, dared to think different and were generally immoral, dissolute and decadent so today they all headed towards ``hell`` leaving their children with a world that belongs to them.``

The above is from a post by `solitude`, an iconoclast of the first rate. May be there is an element of truth in it, people in the land of the pure following the religious dictates, from non-drinking to jihad, are lining up to heaven while their children are left in /s/it/ and debt.

alirezas is an example of solidified TNT, his response is only a diatribe against india and hinduism, is simply irrelevant if I say that I am a Thai and a Budhist. Sorry my friend, you have some work to do, now go and read up on Budhism and Thailand, or simply think for yourself on the above quote from `solitude`. You have just woken up from the warm comfort of conventions and stereo typed thinking prevalent in Pakistan, ignore india, damn all religions including hinduism.

sac, percentage measure is an indication of the capacity of the country/individual etc, absolute measures do not give any indication. To give an extreme example, US is the most indebted country in the world, at the last count, it was more than a trillion dollars, no one talks about it because of the capacity to service, that is as a percentage of the GDP it is less than 10%. Pakistan with 30 billion dollars is in trouble because it is almost 100% of the GDP. A rabbit cannot /s/it/ like an elephant, if you compare in absolute terms. May be many in pakistan believe in absolute terms as you do, and the alarms didnt ring when the debts were going up, they were trying to catch up with india.

Re: hamidm # 31

I second Ras Siddiqi`s suggestion. Your posts have been fantastic. Your description of Bari Imam and Islamabad on ``A Case for De jure.....`` brought me back the sweet memories of my past. I almost felt like being there. Well If you have Quaid-e-Azam University connection, Bari Imam is just about 10-15 minutes walk from the University and once in a while police would force us to run towards Bari Imam, not for the sake of wine and houris but for conveyance to Aab Para. Hope to keep hearing from you.

Actually, Israel and Pakistan have more in common than one might think.

Israel and Pakistan:Strange Bedfellows or Natural Allies?

http://www.idsa-india.org/an-sep9-2.html

-arun gupta

#31

Pakistan is a free country, no one from across the border is asking you to refrain from doing anything. Any action you choose to take is your decision, don`t blame it on someone else. Each person ought to bear the responsibility of his own choices and his own ignorance.

http://www.frontierpost.com.pk/art2dec-17.html

The Frontier Post DECEMBER 17, 1999 FRIDAY

Articles

Extending frontiers of self-help

Brig (R) Usman Khalid

Excerpts:

``The whole world ganged up to portray the relationship between East and West Pakistan as imperial. Why? Was it because it was feared that Pakistan`s success in holding together ethnically diverse peoples but with common faith could form the basis of wider Muslim unity? Was it because the prejudice against Islam is so strong that it was hard to resist the temptation of an opportunity to inflict defeat on the notion of Muslim solidarity? Is it not strange that those who expressed doubts about Pakistan`s viability as a nation-state see no reason for ethnically more diverse and caste-ridden India engaged in brutal suppression of several national movements to face no threat of violent implosion? Truth is mute; propaganda is loud; subversion works.``

...

``Pakistan is the product of the efforts of 400 million Muslims in South Asia (Pakistan, India and Bangladesh) and has a duty to safeguard their lives, freedoms and honour. India treats them as hostages to blackmail the rest of the Muslim world with. In view of the demonisation of Muslims that has gone on for decades, no one cares for these 400 million muted souls terrorised by India. Pakistan is alone in shouldering the huge responsibility``

...

``A mujahid is a soldier subject to international rules of war but he is not subject to the authority of the state. He derives his legitimacy from the existence of oppression, its methods and its victims. When the methods are warlike and Muslims are the targets, Jihad becomes the duty of every Muslim individual and every Muslim state. But the Muslim state has often been denied freedom of action to support Jihad by the application of economic and political pressure or subversion of the leadership.``

...

``Al-Ansaar has been a movement to conquer fear of national will being subverted and legitimate aspirations being compromised by external political and economic pressure by ``Extending the Frontiers of Self-Help`` to defence, diplomacy and politics. Al-Ansaar would henceforth also be a political party of Pakistan with three objectives - the liberation of Jammu and Kashmir, union with Afghanistan, and presidential form of government. I commend the three objectives and urge the formation of Chapters wherever twenty to one hundred supporters can be found.``

Feel inspired?

My pulverizing response to your verbal excrement did not make it past the Chowk censors and did not get posted. In a sense I am happy, because on second thoughts I did not want to play that dirty. However, you need to work on your ability to gauge people and not make too many assumptions.

The Pakistanis on this forum seem to be accusing Indians of a holier-than-thou attitude failing to see that such an attitude on the part of the Muslim leadership was the root cause of all problems in the sub continent. Superficially the religious conflicts seem to be only that, but deep inside it is a mix of racial and religious ingredients. Many Pakistanis believe they are racially superior to the other co-inhabitants of the sub continent. It is a documented fact that Pakistani generals in the `65 war believed that the inferior Hindus would not put up a brave fight. The poor Bengali Muslims who cast in their lot with Jinnah at partition were shoed off to inferior status by the West Pakistanis because of no other reason but racism - this holier than thou attitude you are accusing Indians of. Jinnah`s TNT flounders and drops to the floor begging forgiveness when you think of the Mohajirs.

Within India racism is alive and well, but at least there is a concerted effort to pull together, to unite and to celebrate the diversity. The only forces still working to undo that are the Pakistani influenced Muslims who are hoping that by joining Pakistan they will regain their racial and religious superiority.

Why is it hard for people to see that in the modern world it is more important to pull together than apart. Nobody is superior to another, every human being is capable of producing the same standards of success if he/she is given the opportunity. The forces that work towards exclusiveness at any level - be it race, religion, etc. are WRONG. It is wrong to claim a land for yourself because of religion. It is wrong to say we are a `ISLAMIC state` and everybody else out. Education! Education!

Ref hamidm #: 31

You ask {Or, are you trying to point out that Pakistan, the illegitimate creation of the tri-nitro-toluene theory...}

Why doesn`t Chowk mention the TNT in the abstract of every article, thus taking the wind out of the sails of certain people?

You say {What is really irritating is that Indians of a certain ilk bring out the worst in this secular, almost-heretic, but not yet-wajib-ul-qatl Pakistani.}

You haven`t tried soc.culture.pakistan, have you? Or the Yahoo message board on India`s nuclear tests? Those will have you foaming at the mouth!

You say {A few more encounters with holier-than-thou Indian ignoramuses and I will have to give up my decadent ways and head to Mansura or Raiwind to join the bearded Lashkars eager to march into Sirinagar .... you never know

they might be on to something. If there is any truth to their version of what awaits the Shaheed - houris and vintage wines - it might be worth the gamble.}

Whoa, whoa! Hold it right there! You would be shocked to learn about the true nature of the houris! And why forget the ghilmans? I wonder how the mullahs explain the ghilmans to the shaheed-wannabes.

Anyway, after a little thought, I have come to the conclusion that if these lashkar types spend a week with the girls of Hira Mandi while imbibing stong wine and then are told about the true nature of the houris (see my reply #79 in The Case for De Jure Legalization), they might decide to forget about the jihad! That would be the way to de-fuse any jihadi fervor. Might even break the hold of the mullahs over the masses!

As for holier-than-thou, I don`t think much can be done... after all, these guys have the birthplaces of Ram and Krishna and Buddha whereas you guys can only come up with Multan, the place where Narsingh appeared on the scene. 3-to-1 wins any day, be it baseball or religion!

Hamidm:

I am anil of message #8. Please do not loose your balance. It is this freedom of speech that allows Jay to say what he says. Such thoughts and people thrive on the attention. The best way to counter is by not giving any attention and by bringing out your viewpoints more forcefully.

Good luck. BTW Srinagar is already full of hatred, one more hatred would not gain credence. Send positive thinking and fresh approach.

Musharraf`s Speech: Rhetoric and Reality?

In his recent speech Musharraf said: ``About sixty days ago I had identified areas of critical importance adversely affecting the very foundation of Pakistan. Three of the most vital areas were the dismal state of the economy bordering on bankruptcy, inter-provincial disharmony striking at the roots of national integration and poor governance. Or, rather, mere absence of governance.``

I did a word search/count of his speech published in the New International (December 16, 1999). Here are the results (the number of times a particular word appeared in the text):

Democracy (0)

Grassroots (0)

Protest (0)

Politics (0)

Political (0) Autonomy (0)

Freedom (0)

Liberty (0)

Peace(ful) (1)

(Dis)harmony (1)

Just(ice) (2) Fairness (0)

Equality (0)

Rights (0)

Property Rights (1) Decentralization (0)

Devolution (0)

Local (0)

District (0) Regional (0)

Province/Provincial (11) Nation(al) (19)

Rural (2)

Urban (2)

Economy (10) Economic (12)

Economical(ly) (0) Economist (0)

Education (1)

Health (1)

Welfare (2) Defence Spending (1)

India (0)

Islam(ic) (1)

Muslim (0)

Arab (0)

Tax(es) (41) Governance (6)

Foreign Policy (0)

Foreign Investment (3)

Based on these results you may draw you own conclusions, share them with other Chowkwallas (and perhaps General Musharraf).

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

RE: Reply #: 31, hamidm

You should write more often on CHOWK.

Ras