Boundaries or Bridges?

YAWN as a pakistani Muslim I am once again re assured that as soon as I can I will publicly burn my passport. Maybe I will lace it with elephant dung first . This is a humiliatingly ridiculously overtly jingoistic piece of elephant dung ! Here is what the article is about :

``Hai those ignorant hindus they dont know how great and hospitable and misunderstood we poor pakistanis are ... hai hai! we are so nice and kind and warm and hospitable - it is those hindus creating all the trouble you know... they fight us and wage wars against us while we innocent bholay bhalay pure and massoom people... we mean no harm... yaar``

So this is what Harvard prepares you for ? to sell your soul to a corrupt, fascist culture/ religion/ country? Big surprise we already had a demo version of Harvard / grammar school types in the form of benazir and company - oh gawd! of all the things this country has produced.

regarding sadna#40

I couldn`t have asked for a better reaffirmation of my previous post. The example you`ve provided as an example of ``democratic discourse`` is actually a good illustration of negation of ``innocent until proven guilty``. May I ask what gives the website owner the right to publicily condemn people on eloquent but misleading utterences of ``living beyond ones means``???

Do you see the inevitable trap you`ve fallen into? If my pronouncement to hang the ex-foreign minister hurts your sense of justice and fairness how come the article you`ve mentioned tickles it?

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Universal notions of democratic discourse and civilized conduct have to be taken with a grain of salt. Each situation is unique specially in the context of extremely complex societies like Pakistan and India.

Fuzair #49 I learnt a few new things from your letter. Thanks. Keep up the good work of throwing in a bit of reality to chowk discussions.

My dear Farangi Kush,

I hate to correct you since you are so obviously revelling in a 164 year old victory of the forces of righteousness over those of evil but it wasn`t 36,000 British soldiers but more like 3,600 and they were mainly Indian troops and camp-followers. The defeat was due more to bad generalship by the British than any Afghan/Muslim martial virtue. This fact is amply borne out by the fact that in 1842, after the remaining British garrisons were recalled from Afghanistan, the commanders went home via Kabul, defeating every Afghan force put in the field to face them and rescuing the remaining British hostages (mainly women and children).

Similarly, the Second and Third afghan wars show how poorly the afghans managed to resist the British. So why didn`t the Brits merely conquer Afghanistan? Simple, they didn`t want it and didn`t want to pay for a full-scale war. It was to serve as a buffer state between them and the Russian empire. Curzon as Viceroy wanted to formally annex Afghanistan and make the Central Asian emirates the buffer but the British govt had no desire to pay the cost of the war and he was overruled.

Before you start off with the Russians, let me point out that at no time were there more than 125,000 Russian combat troops in Afghanistan. The Red Army was simply not willing to put in the number of troops needed to win.

Maharaja Ranjit Singh, a non-Farangi but certainly a Kaffir, kept the Afghans quiet for as long as he ruled Peshawar and parts of now-NWFP. Hari Singh Nalwa`s name is still used to quieten noisy children in Hazara. Avitable, a farangi and a kaffir, as governor of Peshawar for Ranjit Singh, used to hand out jagirs whose annual rent was payable in Afghan heads and the frontier had never been quieter than when he was ruling Peshawar.

The border tribes kept rising up against the British because they knew that there would be no real penalties if they failed. Unlike the Sikhs, the British were not going to order the beheading of a few thousand Afghan men, women and children as the penalty for a failed revolt.

So lets not get carried away with the Islamic/Afghan rhetoric. It is always better to deal with the truth than to live delusionally.

Incidentally, Napier did not send the famous message ``Peccavi`` (hebrew for ``I have sinned``) after he conquered Sindh. The British realized that they had no real justification for taking over Sind. A letter to the editor of Punch in London (by a 16 year old girl!) said that Napier must have sent back a message like ``Peccavi`` to announce both his conquest and his guilt.

Best regards.

Re:FARANGI_KUSH#35, tariq#37

I am strongly against Akhand Bharat because it would have been ungovernable and it would have slowed everybody`s development. However, I do not see why we need to be permanent enemies. After all muslims got what they desired in 1947. If they had wanted muslim rule in Delhi, they would have fought for Akhand Bharat, organized a civil war against hindus and captured power in Delhi. Instead they wanted separation and they got their wish fulfilled. Call me an optimist but I beleive that the recent Indo-Pak ill will is because of Musharraf and his hawkish stance on Kargil and Kashmir. I believe that once this guy leaves, India will open negotiations with his successor and settle the Kashmir issue.

It is interesting that FARANGI_KUSH mentioned the tendency for fratricide among desis. It is there in our blood because we always think that outsiders and foreigners are better than us. Hence we do not respect each other and look at ways to hurt each other. Upper caste hindus proudly talk of their Aryan, Central Asian roots. Kashmiri Pandits claim to have come from the Caucasus region. Muslims try to trace their ancestry to Arabia and Central Asia. If Central Asia and West Asia were such a paradise, why did our ancestors bother to come and settle in India ? The reality is that they had marginal prospects there. Most of the times they were kicked out of Central Asia and found their real home in India. The Mughals are the prime example. Babar was kicked out by Shaibani Khan in Uzbekistan and he had to go south to survive. In spite of their majestic empire in Agra, the mughals always pined for Central Asia for centuries. How do you explain this mindset ?

This lack of self esteem and pride in what we are, is responsible for our pathetic conditions. How many battles did hindus and muslims lose when someone collaborated with invaders and acted as traitors ? It is indeed a long list. Look at the way we look upto outsiders to come in and solve our problems. We have not learnt anything from history. Look at the way India and Pakistan are grovelling to get Clinton to visit them and not visit the other side. I am sure Pakistan would not mind if China controlled Kashmir rather than India. As long as India does not get it, it is okay. This is the kind of mentality, we need to overcome. Once we realize that we are residents of a great subcontinent with amazing accomplishments, we can solve our own problems including Kashmir. In a way, I am amused to see Pakistan call the shots in Afghanistan. It is the first time that someone from the south is dictating terms in the north rather than the other way around.

sac #36 writes: ``I remember visiting Delhi a few years ago and the abiding memory I have is the appalling sense of poverty and despair I saw rampant in the streets.``

What did you expect? Fur-clad high-heeled ladies and gents walking around as at the Champs Elysees? I too had the chance to see Delhi for a day (during a flight stopover), and I thoroughly enjoyed it by checking out Lal Killah (complete with the locals picknicking and speaking something like Urdu but in strange accents), Delhi Gate and a bit of the rest of the city (and would have seen more if the damn driver had not tried to steer me into tourist shops).

You also write: ``You can argue all day about the virtues of ``democratic discourse`` but the reality you see on the ground is undeniable.

The reality is that we Pakistanis have never really tried ``democratic discourse``. Even our elected leaders have failed to do this: The elder Bhutto was a control freak, the younger one (BB) listened only to herself, NS busied himself trying to eliminate all discussion. The Islamic fundamentalists are of course deaf even to the Word of God, and democratic discourse by definition is missing during times of military rule.

So maybe sadna is on to something here.

sadna #34

Here is my beef with ``democratic discourse``.What wrath has this nebulous concept wrought in the third world in general and Pakistan in particular? It makes sense in somewhat highly developed societies with appropriate checks and balances. You are well advised to take a critical look at your own country and see the polarized mess it has created. I remember visiting Delhi a few years ago and the abiding memory I have is the appalling sense of poverty and despair I saw rampant in the streets. Meanwhile your politicians thump their chests on being a nuclear power and others go around trying to stop filming of inconsequential movies. You can argue all day about the virtues of ``democratic discourse`` but the reality you see on the ground is undeniable. Just the followers of my ilk keep singing the praises of ``real Islam``, the reality is that the religion is actually how it is being practised in the in so-called ``Islamic`` countries.

We have been hogwashed into believing universal modes of conduct and civilizations and ``democratic ideals``. What cures the headache does not necessarily cure cancer. And what is good for India is not necessarily good for Pakistan.

As far the ex-foreign-misnister in jail, the gentleman used to be a columnist for a prominent daily newspaper. His columns were eagerly awaited since he seemed to have contacts in the military. He alongwith thousands before him sold his soul to get into the Nawaz government. Think of him as a James Carville with a bad accent. Suffice to say the Faustian bargain served him and his family well.

Re:MAJESTICKHANS#13

In that entire 5000 years of history, can you show me one instance of people of the Indus valley and people of the Ganges valley fighting and killing each other ? Yes, they were politically separate but they always had cordial relations and cultural similarity. Even after Islam came to the subcontinent, the Pakistan area had Islam for the past 1000 years. How many times did people from the Ganges valley go there and fight with them or vice-versa ? In fact, Pakistan has always been attacked and conquered from the North and West directions.

It is time we realize that we are both a bunch of losers, who have been kicked around by all kinds of invaders from various directions. Since most of them came from the North and West, Pakistan has suffered even more. Therefore, the present animosity is unnatural and has no basis in history. Even the communal violence in 1947 was provincial in nature. While other parts of the subcontinent cooled down quickly, Punjab saw the worst rioting. That was an internal conflict of the Indus valley people, in particular between the Sikhs and Muslims. Therefore Punjabis need reconciliation. The rest of us never had any problems with Pakistan.

The two countries notwithstanding well-meaning people on both sides are destined to have a bitter ending. An ending which unfortunately seems likely to end up with the splintering of Pakistan. The Indian lobby in the US is organizing itself on the same pattern as the zionist one did in the US a few decades ago. I don`t see the intellectual capital in the Pakistani community to counter this onslaught. They are too busy shielding their kids from ``western influences``. I intend to write about this in greater detail in the form of an article later.

And sadna: Please stop making huge pronouncements on the basis of articles you read in newspapers. The ex-foreign-minister in jail should have been summarily hanged rather than just kept in confinement.

Good article. Beneath the political posturing and threats at the government level is an undercurrent of good feelings among ordinary people in both countries that will one day come to the surface. Articles like yours help.

Thanks for a really nice article. After Vajpayee`s Lahore trip, Indo-Pak relations were thawing at a fast pace. People were visiting each other and an atmosphere of peace and friendship was developing. If only there had been no Kargil...........

SameerJB # 134 DullaBhatti # 136

Gentlemen, thanks for the map sites. Yes, I could find quite a few towns I mentioned in my posts. My own village was too small for the map though. Anyway, I appreciate your help.

Sameer sahib, your general knowledge, on almost any intellectual or cultural topic, is almost intimidating. I never failed to learn something new from your posts.

Regards and more later, inshallah.

Banking on Bangalore - Leon Menezes



The software capital of the world is not just a city of geeks but of party loving people who have no less than 500 clubs to choose from Jetting off to Bangalore isn`t a very normal occurrence so when my trip got confirmed, I was naturally excited. I`m one of those lucky ones who have a boss who sits outside of Pakistan. Lucky because he isn`t here breathing down my neck (although in this day of e-mails and mobile phones it`s just as easy to get an electronic kick-in-the-pants). On the other hand, having to travel to any place with a visa requirement can`t be that bright a prospect for a Pakistani.



My trip was as pleasant as they come - the only thing I could complain about was the transit times. The flight to Bombay was on time and PIA`s service was very good. Immigration and Customs at Bombay were longish because of the rush but otherwise brisk and professional. Another pleasant surprise was the lack of mobs outside the Bombay airport. Being used to fighting one`s way out of the local facilities had prepared me for something similar. How refreshing.



After changing terminals to catch the flight to Bangalore I decided to grab a quick lunch at the airport restaurant. This was a rather nice place with an old-world charm. The service was courteous - almost to a fault - as I shall explain. The meal I ordered came promptly and after a while the waiter came by to check on how things were. I commented that the fish was slightly undercooked, whereupon he asked if he could change it for me. Since I had nearly finished, I politely declined. He then went and got the manager who also apologised and offered to change it. When I refused again and asked to settle my check, they informed me that the meal was complimentary because it wasn`t up to my standard! They also brought a comment card so that I could record my experience. What next, I wondered.



Next was the check-in for the flight to Bangalore. I had never heard of Jet Airways but wow, what a surprise. Efficient check-in, an excellent business class lounge and the most impressive in-flight service one can imagine. Having travelled the world for many years, this was easily one of the best flights I`ve taken. Frequent flyers on Jet Airways will tell you how the flight attendants will greet you by name and take your meal order in a manner that would make the finest restaurants blush. My observation was that the girls were extremely pretty. This just goes to show what privatisation and competition can do for you.



Bangalore is a pleasant city, bordering on the quaint. It reminds one of old parts of Karachi and Rawalpindi but is not as crowded as either. The city was known as the ``Garden City`` but is now called the software capital of the world. Almost every major computer company has a presence there and, because of the money pouring in, banking and financial services have also taken off. Skyscrapers are coming up in the main city areas but efforts are made to retain the ``look`` of the place. A cosmopolitan population ensures a great level of tolerance as Hindus, Muslims and Christians live and work without distinctions.



It is precisely this make-up of communities that make ``Bangalories`` so genteel. It`s somewhat like the atmosphere in Singapore and Sri Lanka where communities celebrate each other`s festivals. An appreciation develops for the differences while it is easy to recognise the similarities. No one community claims to be dominant.



There are, of course, a few nut cases who want to disturb the peace. These people have actively campaigned against foreign investors (especially the foodwallas) with the aim of blackmailing them. The campaign was almost successful until local produce suppliers realised that they themselves would be the biggest losers if investors pulled out. Now the focus has shifted to target all the ``outsiders`` who have made Bangalore their home as they want the local language to get preference over English and Hindi.



The hotel I stayed at was a treat. Plush interiors combined with a sophistication that was understated. There was a personal valet to take care of the little things and fine restaurants that catered to a variety of tastes. I have had the opportunity to visit India on a few occasions and have always been impressed by the standard of their service industry. If I may make a sweeping judgement here - the hospitality industry in India is far and ahead of any other country because everyone seems so eager to please. It is this element alone that makes one overlook any other shortcomings.



I am told on authority that there are over 500 bars in Bangalore and more than 100 cinemas. That makes for a lot of diversional activity that the young and the restless can indulge in. The bars have their own personalities but the ones favouring good old-fashioned rock music are in the majority. The great thing about this city is that no matter how many bars one visits (don`t look at me that way), no one misbehaves. With the affluence of the natives and the influx of visitors good eating and shopping are also plentiful.



Work kept me indoors till after eight in the evenings but we did manage to check out a few interesting spots. Fortunately for me, my boss is an excellent host so I was well looked after. On the second night there was a farewell for a colleague to which I was invited. One of the guests, also a colleague, asked where my residence in Karachi was. He mentioned that a cousin of his lived in the vicinity. One thing led to another and it turned out that his relations are all acquaintances of mine! The world is getting smaller by the minute.

Getting back involved an equally long transit at Bombay but with all the formalities involved, it`s best to have sufficient time in hand. What a pity travel between our two countries is so difficult because I sincerely feel that more frequent interactions will lead to a reduction in mutual suspicions.

On hamidm #: 152

When you say ``Of course if, by some miracle, peace breaks out, I can see myself partying with a Sikh from Amritsar, but I still can`t imagine breaking a dossa with some sideways head-shaking alien with six v`s in his name and no sense of humor``, is it because the Sikh calls himself Birendar instead of Virendar? I with only 3 v`s in my name, could I possibly hope to share at least half a dosa with you, if I promise not to shake my head sideways? Will noted Chowk correspondent Veeresh Malik have to change his name to Beeresh Malik for you to read his columns, in the process becoming Bud to everybody (from his new nickname Budweiser, King of Beers -- Beer-esh)? If I replace the v`s with b`s in my name to please you and become Bibi, what would you consider that? Effeminate? A confused gender identity? A confused national identity or even an attempt to be anti-Palestinian and by extension anti-Muslim since Benjamin Netanyahu`s nickname is Bibi? That at least it is not as bad as Jonathan Netenyahu`s dimunutive, Yoni? What do you think of two brothers wandering around Israel calling themselves Yoni and Bibi? Do you think guys with those names would have lasted for a day anywhere in the subcontinent, let alone among your crotch-scratching brothers from across the Attock river?

All these thoughts about Yoni and Bibi on the day of the Sabbath which God has commanded us to keep holy! Tauba, tauba!

Re: # 160 z

``I can find myself breaking a dosa with a South Indian friend but not a roti with a goateating,allah chanting,pole smoking,crotch scratching,wife beating, pot bellied enemy from across the LOC.

Hey if Hamidm can get away with this why shouldnt I? :)``

Yeah but he does this under his name not hide behind the pseudonym.... ;)

Moez Momin

I can find myself breaking a dosa with a South Indian friend but not a roti with a goateating,allah chanting,pole smoking,crotch scratching,wife beating, pot bellied enemy from across the LOC.

Hey if Hamidm can get away with this why shouldnt I? :)