Boundaries or Bridges?

Beena Sarwar,

This place is boring, like idli and sambar for breakfast in a village chai shop. I like naplam on toast, I am going to the Ras shop next door.

All the best.

Regards

Jay

Subsequent to the trip by the students from Ramjas College in Delhi, my 18 year old daughter was part of a group of 11 Indians (4 girls and 7 boys) who ``did`` Lahore, Islamabad and Takshila. They have just returned a couple of days ago. There were more than a fair share of people from both sides who ``warned`` us about sending a young girl to ``the other side``, as it would be dangerous, apparently.

We are from a family of uniformed people. We have lost close family and friends; worse, we have close family and friends who have been maimed due to the problems between our countries. By rights, this gives us more of a reason to seek revenge from ``the enemy``, correct?

Nothing would have kept our daughter away, and she went with the blessings of some of these people. With loss and tragedy comes, often, common sense, not revenge. Will we have to wait for everybody in our countries to lose friends and relatives?

Likewise, ground realities of Kashmir cannot be ignored, either. So any view put forward here is not that of the usual ``peacenik``. Nor is it that of the hawk sitting comfortably. Both in isolated splendours of clubhouses in Delhi and Islamabad.

This is what I hear the children say, children who went without much by way of ``bandobast``, with the odd contact here and there, mainly over the Net. Children from across the social and economic spectrum of people in India, from amongst the brightest.

1) Summing it up first, the Emperors on both sides wear no clothes.

2) Being a girl/woman, she is really glad that her grandparents crossed over to India in 1947. On the other hand, there is more respect for women in Pakistan, on the street, too. Price of emancipation?

3) The money-changers on both sides of the border, ``authorised``, are rip-off artists. This symbolises the relationship between our countries best.

4) Tourists are fair game anywhere, and will always fall prey to touts and petty crooks.

5) After some time the ``shadows`` provided by the snoops become their guides towards local interaction.

6) Increasingly, our countries are run by construction and armament contractors.

7) The colonials never really left our countries as yet.

Inferences are mine, her article will follow once she has caught up on sleep. Let us have more students from the brightest in both countries cross over, as often as they want.

Maybe there is hope here.

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This article reflects the true feelings of people accross the border and their cultural nearness. Isn`t it that 100 Yrs ago my forefathers and that of Madhuresh Kumar (so to say ..) could have been

playing together. Going further back in time who

knows its quite possible that we might be part of

the same family in which one brother converted to

Islam(my forefathers) and others remain Hindu (Madhuresh Kumar`s family).

I myself have personal experience of being in

India (by the way I am a Pakistani settled in USA for last 2+ Yrs) for about 6 months, I was

actually there for training in a branch of the multi national I use to work in Pakistan. It was

fun and delight to meet people and to feel the

warmth of their emotions. Especially if a shopkeepr was an immigrant of Pakistan his love

for us and his never ending questions about his

mother-land were a sight to watch and feel, not to

mention monumental discounts we were entitled of.

In Coughnaut place people would talk to us about

Cricket and world cup 1996 as if the cup is played

between Pakistan and India.

I observed that we both sides are victems of the

bloody partition I did find people there who wondered ``Okay partition is over now WHY CAN`T WE

LIVE HAPPLY NOW``. I met people who wondered ``If

Kashmir goes to Pakistan would there be honey flowing in the streets of Pakistan and vice-versa``

I know just by saying all this wont fix anything but hey that builds an opinon and like minded people and thats what we need.

Lets think and go PEACE ........

From the,

FirstSlip

Well, a refreshing change of pace with this article. Things like this can always give one hope.

Interesting that they were able to have political discussions. In the US, I`ve never engaged in a political discourse with any Indians - in fact, it something that both of us seem to avoid (other than generalized complaints about education, bureaucracy, corruption etc).

Cheers, AK

Beena Sarwar:

Thank you for the light reading after such `heavy` stuff on chowk.Also,it was feel-good too.

But!

This approach to `learn` about the others could be very deceiving.Let me term it the Indian movie approach to `understanding` divergent cultures.

You will find that most of the popular movies(about 100%) are culturally & religion-wise first disinfected with secularist `values`,so the characters seem to have been lab-created.They wish each other good mornings(unless wage-earners--who mean nothing in Indian cinema) go to college,comically act `western` and pretend that they have no religion or that they are advanced enough to look down upon it.They dance those vulgar dances which are worse than outright hardcore stuff & again are deluded to think that they are `advanced` and `modern`.Lately,however,it has become de rigour for the couple to suddenly spot a place to get married in a mandir or offer mangal sootur somehow to sanctify the actual consummation(maybe this is a censor requirement since BJP).

The learning experience should be to interact with the differences & still have affectionate memories of the trip.This talk about how much same we are allows for mushiness in relations & dilution of philosophies.THe best Shanta Raam movies were not the ones where he promotes hindu-muslim bhai bhai theme but where he presents hindu mythologies & culture in its pristine form.

If you want a true report I think both governments must have an exchange of their own religous scholars & arrange for dialogue about their religions to remove the mystery & mystique about them in each others` and publics` mind.Teaching of hindi/urdu should be the goal for exhange students.English must be reduced to second class level & appreciated only as a `technical` language or job-seeking language,the belly-filling language.

We must also extend this hand of friendship to China & learn their language & culture too.The whole idea is to show the farangi their station in our scheme of things.These countries together(with BD,SL,& Nepal) are almost half the world.Together let us kick some farangi a-- & see them grovelling at our doorstep for a change.

Dear `t` I wanted to be #1.

Now, SameerJB could write ten posts and get # 300 with some certitude on bahmad`s board. But no such `shenanigan` could work for #1. Challo, bhaii, zinda raho aur khush raho.

Salwak sent a post asking what did I think if he says that for the Chowk`s recent atmosphere he says that it is timely. I agreed with him/her/him/her. After having joined my voice with that I feel the problem to be so domestic that I should be very hurt if this one also gets on a side spur. I feel that Chowk organization needs attention. If the rules allow, then the offer of funds and time should be accepted. Because of my circumstances at this time I can participate in both if the invitation is extended to a group of few chosen individuals for time, particularly.

Part I.

All other bridges are pleasant to see and hear about, but they are meaningless, not that we shouldn`t have them, but are so, in comparison with the bridges which we need to build between our brains (weltanschauung; `world-view`) and the external reality; scientific, and POLITICAL. The world has changed drastically since last fifteen odd years and, most particularly, since last six or seven years. In addition to political and the world of science we now have the `tech` world, an example of which is this, my, post, Chowk, Beena`s article, your response and hundreds that will follow. [And which, I predict, will end up as ``Trip to Pakistan and the Kashmir as folly of the Pakis``.

``You see, there is this elephant, a large four footed animal who has a `wormlike` trunk. Now there are nine types of worms; type one... .``

Iqbal, on the building of a mosque in one night, on the Circular Road Lahore, between Moti (now mochi) Darwaza and Lohari Darwaza, said a poem. A couplet of which is:

Iqbal barra updeshak hai m`n batoun main moh laita hai

Guftar ka ghazi b`n to gaiya, kirdar ka ghazi b`n na sakaa

We are ghazi-e-guftar. Batain hum barrey mazey ki, lachhey dar, k`rtey hain. Neither this post, yours, nor this article falls outside the pale of my description.

Remember, Justice Kyani said. At the end of every day ask yourself what have I done for Pakistan today!

[Many years later an American President said, ``Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country``], and we remember it as if it were a saheefa-e-aasmani, an oracle. I saw Americans follow it in action. You live in the States. What is your observation now?

Do you know what do we, Pakistanis, do? Nothing. What Kyani said, we forgot the next day. We remembered only the funny portions of his speech. Or admired his thought in this admonition, and then forgot it.

The following may not sound immediately relevant but we shall come back to it, in Part II perhaps. I was very disturbed to see a request in a letter to the editor, in the Dawn of 19th February, that the garden next to Mr. Jinnah`s mausoleum be named ``Rutti Jinnah`s Bagh``. A noble sentiment and idea. But the writer says further that he requests the CE to kindly name it ....

My immediate reaction was to go out and beat him and every other Pakistani with a similar mode of thinking. Consider the mizaj: ``Government should do something``.

Let`s go and ask him: Now, Why don`t //You// go around your locality, talk to some like-minded people, establish 2-3 person committees in different parts of the city, including yours, and canvass people to sign a petition requesting the name preferred for the bagh, so that when it goes `above` it is felt and known, that //people// want this.

And does the Prime Minister, the President, or only CE has to be addressed for this kind of preference? Why? Do these people name gardens and parks around the country? Which is the proper body to take your `petition` to? Should it not be your Municipal Committee or corporation? Do you not have a Mayor, a Deputy mayor, a City Council, your local Councilor? Why should the CE step in? Why should you not address the Committee, the Council, the mayor, the municipal corporation? What kind of inflated self-concept do you have of yourself, that you think that you would send a letter to a paper (not read in all of Pakistan, either), the EC will read it and name it Rutti Jinnah Bagh.

You know why all of this is not done? Because we think, ``the government should do somthing about it``. The other route means your involvement, getting off your big, thick butt, take initiative and do some work, including canvassing, argument, convincing, seeing your councilor, going to your city`s Council meeting(s).

I am going to suggest another method: Find out, definitely and DEFINITIVELY, what body or person(s) is/are responsible. Then prepare four, five, or six different drafts of an application and distribute them to the persons who have agreed with you.

Not LOOOONNNNGGGG drafts.(I assume, the `explanatory` letter has already gone) Just, ``we_________(name optional) or, the resident of ``Defense``, ``Alhamra`` etc., Society, request that the bagh being created next to the Quaid`s maqbra be named after his beloved wife....`` Apka/e mukhlas......

Buy some envelopes (collect or donate nominal sums of money) and ask the ``respondents`` (remember, they should know you and trust you), to put the completed letter in the envelope and mail it. This way, there will be witnesses of mailings so that if such a matter ever has to be taken to a different venue (higher body, court), there would be witnesses for mailings. I feel leaving the mailings to the respondents may result in `absences` because of usual forgetfulness.

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On a related but different matter:

It seems to me that since the ``AmeriPaks`` are not any different from the rest of us pedestrians, perhaps all we are interested in is to see our name in print. That`s an enough satisfaction for us. In an economically rigid, stratified society, when enough, or what we consider `due-us`, rewards do not come our way, then in that society, we jump at any `distinction` that might set us apart from the rest. Quite often it is due to a certain degree of ``status inconsistency``, mention of which has already been made in the Chowk.

I sometime wonder if certain individuals are not using inclusion of any type of their writing on the Chowk as their `published` work, and, in their jobs, are receiving merit increments and earlier promotions on the bases of these ``publications``.

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· There are usually `morals` at the end of stories and such. The moral of the above is that it is not necessary that everything should have a moral!

Part II to follow.

I read this article a month or so ago and really enjoyed the reality it brings forth: It isnt the people but the governments that are the root cause of the tensions. Thus MAGESTICKHANS may emphasize that Hindu`s and Muslims could not live together but I feel that that argument holds no more than Shias cannot live together with Sunnis or Muhajirs cannot live with Punjabis, Jamaatis cannot live with Sindhis or what have you. It was interesting however that the experiences that these students had were not nearly as positive in Peshawar. I was not surprised by that at all. Pathans and related tribes are actually much less a part of Pakistan socio-culturally. The ``brand`` of Islam that they (please excuse the generalizations but I do feel this to be true) practice is different from Muhajir,Sindhi, or Punjabi families which I feel are much more tolerant (as they should be since they do come from somewhat of a Hindu past....and in the case of Sindhi`s a very significantly Hindu past). India and Pakistan should never have been partitioned. It was probably the gravest error ever made in subcontinental history. If it was for the sake of Islam, in view of Karachi, we know that Muslims cannot live together with Muslims.

I think Pakistanis and Indians are different enough to require separate countries, but similar enough to exist as friendly neighbors.

MAJESTICKHANS:#13

Your majesty!

Thank you very much for bringing to light a very unique & refreshingly great aspect of the creation of Pakistan.This was already known(Iqbal has written about it) but perhaps no one has put it in the format you (or whosoever did it) have done it.

My thanks anyway.

Let me add something to it:

The farangi rule was only possible because of the wavering loyalty in Panjab by the sikhs & some muslims.

When,after the first afghan war,out of 36000 british soldiers only one was spared & put on horseback semi-alive & sent back to the farangies to report to them what happened to the 35999,the farangi out of sheer vengeance decided to `conquer` Sind.General Napier sent back the cryptic & now historic telex:``I have Sind``.The poor Sindh had done nothing to harm anyone.

So you see even Sind was attacked unprovoked & unannounced,simply to send a `good` report back home.

[A painting of this glorious event hangs in most Imperial clubs & in some conservative blue-blood drawing rooms.The englishman knows never to mess around with practising proud muslims].

Naaraa-e-Takbeer!Allah-u-Akbar.

P A K I S T A AAAAAA N!------ZIIIINNDAAAABAAAD.

Dear Beena:

A good example of mature thinking and writing. What I liked most was said by Gaurav Srivastava (is a Nepali name) that `` ``I pray to God, and hope that this beautiful, wonderful land, so close to India, will set an example to the international community.`` We have hope for good relations between India and Pakistan as long as young people like Gaurav are around. Thank you Beena, thank you Gaurav.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Majestickhan (#13): Some one should have presented this chronological list of ruling dynasties over Pakistan long time ago, but still it is timely. I bet not many people are familiar with it because it is not taught in the history textbooks in Pakistan. It is true that the current geographical areas constituting Pakistan were ruled for 712 years from Patna, Delhi, Agra and Calcutta whereas large portions of north India were ruled much longer from Taxila, Peshawar and Lahore combined. People will forget the six flags over Texas, if they start counting the number of flags over Taxila alone. I have couple of commens though.

1) At least the lower Indus valley civilization was definitely dravidians belonging to the first phase of scythian migration probably through bolan pass, they have already reached south India during the blossoming of lower Indus valley civilization. Thus people were not so much different even 4000 years ago. That is I guess the main theme of the article. Both India and Pakistan deserve to be independent nation states because of constantly changing dynasties and moving boundaries in addition to many other reasons but the bridge between people, at least at individual level, transcends those boundaries. A large number of Pakistanis watch Indian movies on videos and listen to Indian music not because they love or hate India; because they understand and somewhat identify with the language and culture. Same is true for the popularity of PTV dramas in India.

2) If Muslim dynasties ruled for 512 years out of 4000-5000 years, what should be our identity? Does not it make sense to include and blend the influence of all of the known past into our heritage.

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Similarity and Difference

Dear Umair:

I hope you would agree that between absolute difference and absolute similarity there are a wide variety of positions. In reality, most of us are located somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. Let us recognize that we are both similar and different, and find creative ways of minimizing unnecessary and unwarranted conflict.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

SameerJB:# 21

Perhaps you inadvertantly missed the governorship of sind with multan as its capital,by the great Mohammad bin Quasim...year was 710 or thereabouts & onwards!. Also Ayaz was incharge of Lahore as governor around 1050.The word Panjab never existed in the chronicles & was first coined about 150-200 years ago by British mapmakers & land distributors when the canals were being surveyed.

It is too much expect more than 1300 years of rule from a nation only 1400 years young.Although your sentiments are laudible,but this is how it was.

(Errors & Omissions excepted because this is all from memory...... the substance is true.)

Your brother in Islam.