The Bombing

ali1:#141

This one is for you only:

Meer kee jaanib moonh ko kr key baat jo unn ney uss sey kee

Lutf kiya,ihsan kiya,inaam kya,ikraam kya.

The sher was quoted impromptu by me,and I think so it was by you.

``Correct version`` from Zikr-e-Meer by Khwaja Ahmad Farooqui 1954 Anjuman-e-Tarraqui-e-Hind.

Mind you many variations have also been in currency.This is the irony of a sher which becomes very widely accepted.Democracy(numbers) win and `reality` becomes irrelevant.

Meer kay deen-o-mazhab ko ubb poochhtey kya ho unn ney tho

------no change in other line

I have a very fragile copy of the original hand-written copy of the six divaans.It would need very careful page-turning.I promise you I`ll post that version too,for the benefit of all.

I really appreciate your concern about my urdu.But I must protest(or question) your judgement about my english.

I am defficient in both---and in many other deciplines.

wassalaam.



OMAR1974:

Thank you.We`ll chat soon.This is just an acknowledgment.

Oye FARANGI_KUSHED # 139

English medium school ki paidawaar, please don`t kush the urdu language.

The correct sher is:

Meer ke deen-o-mazhab ka kya pucho sahab usnay to

qashqa khaincha, daer mein baitha, kabka tark Islam kya

Quote your Kipling and other sahibs till you learn Urdu. humph!!

aati hai urdu zubaN aate aate

take care

Ali

Re:sac#136

Your statements about Islam are unfair. All great religions preach good human values and Islam is no different. The key is how the followers of the religion interpret the teachings. Take Christianity for example. Christians had a very backward interpretation of their faith till the renaissance. In fact, more violence has come out of Christianity than any other religion. This includes conflicts between the catholics, orthodox church, protestants, crusades, inquisitions, anti-jewish pogroms etc. Yet Christians were able to evolve their interpretation of religion to a different level. Today there are as many Christians as in the past, yet you see the Pope apologizing to the jews and orthodox church about past atrocities. You see dialogue between Christians and Muslims.

A similar phenomenon holds true for Islam. In the past, Islam was an open religion that encouraged scientific thought and an open mind. It encouraged its followers to actively engage with non-muslims. It offered a message of equality of human beings that was very powerful. No wonder, there were so many scholars produced in the Islamic world and the religion spread far and wide. People like Al-Beruni travelled to India, learnt Sanskrit, read the vedas and analyzed Indian society and culture. People like Amir Khusro and Nizamuddin Auliya actively built bridges with hindus while spreading Islam. Similarly muslims in Spain created a splendid civilization and pursued scholarship in science, mathematics, etc.

What has happened in the past few centuries is that muslims have developed a close minded, insular interpretation of their faith. This could be a reaction to the rise of the western world. There is now a concerted attempt to insulate the muslim world from non-muslim influences, as if Islam is so fragile. There is a strong premium on separatist movements in muslim majority places in the world (Kashmir, Chechneya etc). Muslims are forgetting that these areas in far-flung parts of the world like India, Russia etc. have muslim majorities only because muslims engaged with non-muslims in those lands. The most irrational examples are the Taliban who bash up TVs and imprison women in their homes. This mindset is opposite of the mindset of the earlier generation open-minded muslims who engaged with everyone. Hopefully this trend will reverse some day and Islam will be a very different religion from what it seems to be.

sac:#136

Why should you expect hate mail.You`ve said nothing radical or outrageous.Islam encourages,nay

exhorts introspection & enquiry and then demands that one give it up if not happy.

Islam does not like a doubting muslim---an unsure & questioning muslim yes but never one who is trying to do a favour to himself or others to stay muslim.

Meer kay deen-o-mazhab ko tum poochho kya ho unn ney tho

Qashqua khaincha,dair mein baithey,kub ka thurk Islam kya.

-----That Doyen of Urdu Poetry---Meer Taqui Meer.

Solidly orthodox & staunchly practising muslim.

trans: Ask me not about the belief and creed of that Meer.

Has a forhead-mark(hindu),attends the temple,has given up on Islam long long ago.

cheer up sac.but not in the bar please!

wassalaam

In response to SamerJB (Reply # 133)

Dear Sameer:

Thank you for an excellent summary and a well-argued statement. I see in you the symptom of a great writer, keep it up.

I agree with your conclusion: “It is lot better to stress the commonalities than the differences. This is the only rational and positive way of thinking!!!” I am sure, you are not asking your audience to know the differences reasonably well.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Re: sac

The struggle between the conservatives and liberals exist in every religion, chapee. Our mullahs are not more embarassing than that moron named Thakeray. No one here on this board has said that Islam has failed them.

Amir Janjua

Mary is a good friend of mine. I`ve known her for 5-6 years. She is around 34, jewish, reasonably good looking in that New Yorkish kind of way and divorced for over 8 years. She holds an advanced ivy-league degree and makes north of a quarter of a million each year. She has lurched from one disastrous relationship after another in the past few years. All those have involved jewish men in their 30s who in most cases were either lawyers, dentists or investment bankers.

A couple of weekends ago we were discussing the sorry state of our lives when Mary blurted out ``I don`t think I am ever going to get married again!!``

I, of course attributed the outburst to a rather heavy dose of martinis and tried to convice her that she was dead wrong and she would think differently once she gets up in the morning. Mary was adamant in her protestations and proceeded to leave me and my other friends at the bar. She and I had another conversation a few days later and I tried to joke about her statement a few nights earlier. To my surprise she took the ribbing very light-heartedly and said ``You know I`ve been thinking about this for the last couple of years and finally I got the courage to admit it to myself. The statement was not meant for public consumption. It was for my own sake. And now I feel better than I`ve ever felt before in my life!!``

What does this story have to do with the discussion at hand? Nothing and everything. Just like Mary most well-educated and intelligent Muslims have a deep secret which they may someday confront and feel a whole lot better. Deep down they realize that Islam as a religion has failed them. It has nothing to offer to them except a collection of rituals and ceaseless discussions about the number of imams, hijab and other such inconsequential topics. With the fundamentalists refusing to give an inch, it has become nothing but a source of embarassment. It is painful to see otherwise logical and intelligent people trying to reconcile the impracticality of it all with what they`ve been taught or have been led to believe since birth. In rare instances they`ve tried to do it themselves as an intellectual endeavour and contrary to their public utterances have failed miserably.

Obviously this may result in a lot of hate mail. So be it!!

macgupta:#134

What a discovery on your part!

My friend I knew the meaning & that is exacly what I mean.One side is not called Fanatic but fan.The everyday use has altered the mood of the word.

You really pay attention.That is a consolation.

It happens to all of us sometimes.

wassalaam

Farangi_kush (#123) writes :

Wearing tattered jeans,grundge dressing,nose-ring piercing etc etc are not blind followings.This is fashion.You become a fan.But when you follow the sunnat(esentially life-style practice) of that greatest man who ever graced this universe and try to follow it to the letter then you are not a fan,you are a fanatic--same stroke,different beat.

Farangi_kush, the joke is on you. ``Fan``, as used above, is a slang word, which is derived from ``fanatic``, at least according to my Webster`s dictionary. ``Fan`` == ``Fanatic``, same stroke same beat.

-arun gupta

Fozia’s posts have interstingly touched off a very open and lively debate about an area which was generally avoided previously. Her statement, “ If one looks carefully, the fundamental aspects of Islam are: Unity in creation, knowledge, truth, justice, day of accountability (qiyamat) and equality for all in front of the Supreme Being” was partly true so was Amir’s suggestion of kalima, Humanity, Justice, Truthfulness and Kindness; to which F_K added Tawhid and Khatm-e-Nabov’at. There is not anything to be disagreed upon these abstract aspects of Islam. In her next post Fozia put it very precisely by stating, “ because these are more abstract concepts they are often harder for people to relate to and enforce upon themselves. Especially when compared to the more concrete ``pray, fast etc`` elements of Islam”. Altaf and Patrick made a good case for the ritualistic aspects of going to the shrines.

I tend to agree with Fozia, Patrick and Altaf but would like to further extend this debate. The abstract aspects would not have made a clear break from all else, which Islam intended from the offset, especially in the collective political and religious history of Muslims. They were rituals which set Muslim apart from the rest. Come to think of abstract aspects; Most of them were already existing in some form in pre-Islamic times. The truthfulness, justice, knowledge etc. are common human goodness prevalent in e.g., in India before the arrival of Muslims or even before the arrival of vedic Aryans. The common human goodness as Islamic abstract aspects could not provide any justification for a person to switch their faith, when these aspects were not in short supply. The effects of rituals are much more far reaching than merely a non-abstract and concrete set of practices. As Patrick and Altaf pointed out, they provide an identity, a belongingness and above all a valid illusion or spirituality. For these reasons, rituals are and will remain part of most religions. The rituals are a necessity for all organized religions and is the bread and butter of priestly class which vigorously opposes any attempt toward individualized religion.

The best way to discuss rituals is on comparative basis. Two points come to my mind, which differtiate Islamic rituals from all else are: 1) The excessive dominance of Arab culture and traditions in the form of language and customs. 2) Time consumed in performing the rituals. Islamic rituals are more time consuming than other religions on per day, per week or yearly basis. In other religions, there is seperation of piety and lay people where people belonging to priestly orders can indulge excessively in the performance of rituals whereas Islam does not distinguish Muslims between piety and common folks and every able body has to perform these rituals. For some Muslims, the time spent is directly proportional to earning more credit (Sawab). Theoretically, a Muslim can read whole length of Surah Baq’r in each Raka’t making each prayer very long. It is possible for old retirees and people with less commitments to family and work, or those who do not intend to make any positive contribution to family, neighborhood and society at large, to indulge excessively in rituals. But for most, it depends on their level of commitment to other affairs of life. Moderation is the best policy. I have known many people, even in my family, who have chosen to indulge excessively at the expense of ignoring their responsibilities to the family and society.

Similarly Quran is an absolute necessity for Muslim identity and belongingness. I tend to agree with temporal that it is loaded with symbolism and is poetic based more on convistion than any detailed knowledge. If it was to read as prose then it is full of mythological accounts of the history of a rather insignificant tribe, the Jews, which are very questionable in the light of modern knowledge of Middle-Eastern history. Besides, a Holy book can not be merely a history book, it is suppose to be valid for all times. A reading, first in Arabic and then translation of the story of Joseph for two hours and then finding the moral of the story, which could be learnt easily in much shorter time, is definitely not the purpose of reading Quran. It has to be spiritual. Amir has pointed out this aspect clearly by quoting Iqbal from his famous book as, “The Qur`an, however is not a legal code. Its main purpose, as I have said before, is to awaken in man the higher consiousness of his relation with God and the universe. No doubt, the Qur`an does lay down a few general principles and rules of a legal nature, especially relating to the family-the ultimate basis of social life”. A good spiritual experience requires complete faith, submission, focus, concentration and attention to the reading and not letting your mind wandering about the deep philosophical meaning during concentration. It is similar to what Karishna tells Arjuna throughout Bhagavad Gita; Follow your obligation as dutifully as possible, remain focused, not to worry about consequences of your actions because they have no bearing on the profounf truth. Another similar Japaneese Zen Buddhist fable goes like, “ Does a dog has Buddha mind? Desciple asks. The Priest replies, ‘Ju’ meaning it does not matter”. Now there are thousands of Japaneese monks chanting “Ju” from early in the morning to late at night while putting their minds in their bellies. Does Japaneese society has any less of kindness, justice and truthfulness than others? The answer is no because their meditations without thinking supposedly open them up to the profound truth or inner-self. If you think that I am trying to find a common ground with Hinduism and Buddhism, you are right.

Similarly, it enhances the spiritual experience during Namaz if one totally focuses and concentrates on the act of praying instead of thinking too much about the meanings. The reading of Quran, praying and going to shrines dutifully for the sake of identity, belongingness and spirituality, are best experienced with your mind thrown into you belly. Since the postures of Namaz are so similar to several sun salutation postures of Yoga; albiet in slow motion, can one also practice breathing techniques of Yoga during praying, inhaling getting up and exhaling going down? Is it possible to have such benign innovations in the name of Ijtehad? Can one benefit from the best of other religion like Hinduism and Buddhism without letting go of the core belief of Islam? Why do one has to only acquuire good knowledge from Ibn-Rushd, Iqbal, Ali Shari’ati and Maulana Roomi and not from Aurobindo, Radhakrishnan, Vivekananda and Suzuki when Hadeeces says, “Acquire knowlegde even if you have to go to China” and “O’ God give me knowledge”.

In the modern and postmodern world, we should try to live peacefully, respectfully and benefitting from as many other sources of wisdom as possible. Why do we have to invent wheel every time we desire one?

One last point is about Quranic interpretations. Every sect interprets different parts diffently. Even among the Sunnis, the famous Tafseer Ibn-Kaseer, Tafheem Ul-Quran and Ibn-Tayyima’s interpretation do not necessarily agree with each other. The differences of interpretation will remain even if there is to be a certain rigorous scholarship for one to be a licenced scholar among Sunnis because the differences are rooted in the historical foundations. It is more important to think above and beyond the seemingly differences of interpretation. At the prfound level, they are all truths for the person believing in them as long as it is not used to degrade or insult others. Think of this an example. The last two sentences of Ist Surah Fateha read, “ Sirat allazina.................................Wallazzualeem”, meaning [O’ God] “Help me to follow the path of those You blessed with wisdom and not those whom you condemned”. Lets ignore the condemned ones; For most Sunnis and Wahabis, the blessed ones are the Prophets of Jewish origin and since Hazrat Mohammad is the last one, the list stops here. For followers of Sufis, it may include great Sufis, for Shia, it includes 12 imams, for Ismailies, it includes their list of Imams and so on. Who is going to draw the line? Can the list include great scientists and philosophers of non-Musllim origin? As you can see it is futile to interpret it to the satisfaction of all sects. Why worry about it when there are so many other issues to worry about. It is lot better to stress the commonalities than the differences. This is the only rational and positive way of thinking!!!

Assad_K:#129

The examples have been chosen just to bring home the point.A lot of people understand things better when presented in stark contrast.

Yes the emphasis sometimes,nay many a times,on the non-sunnat aspect & should be thoroughly discouraged.A lot of times it is the only answer to the oppression committed by those who have the military might & the media.A victims cries for help has to be louder than the sound of gun-fire.

Would you not agree?

wassalaam.



PS:

Usool-eldeen are the pillars on which is the foundation of the structure is.

Froo-e-din are the events happening or supposed to happen inside the structure.

Imamat is the door to Ijtehad.There is no other way.According to Iqbal it is the ideal-most system,perhaps idealistic so the next best alternative is Parliamentary democracy.The present day Iran is closest to what he dreamed of.

O, you who sit in the monastic cell and talk tall,

Go and shout the word of negation, La before Nimrod.

Become aware of the power of the word, La Illah,

Whosoever has the sword of negation in his hand.

Is the ruler over the entire world of existence.

-Iqbal

Brother Farangi-Kush

Wasalaam

I admire your gallant, yet Quixotic, attempt to reason with this apostate crowd which is headed straight to Hell accompanied by their Bhajan-singing peanut-chilgoza gallery...... You would make Imam Ghazali proud with your iman-inspired attempts to beat the twin devils of rationalism and reason ...... these are obviously inspired by the likes of that infamous colonel from Kentucky and his Californian cousin who have poisoned our minds with haram (but original) chicken and suspect Big-Macs ..... Brother, don`t fret - just as we beat that heretic Al-Razi senseless with his own big fat book, we will flog these followers of Ibn-Sina and Bill Gates with their copies of Wired and the New Yorker. Inshallah! Takbeer ....

Actually, in this age of useless Kafir-Judeo-Christian technology, we, the true believers, have found a utialtarian, and therfore halal, use for the Sahaitan`s invention - the Internet (I always thought Al Gore resembled Iblees !) Anyway, you and Temporal and I, can get answers to all our perplexing questions by visiting

http://www.fatwa-online.com/index.htm

where the likes of Ibn-Baz and other illustrious ulema provide us with answers to all the important questions. So, if you ever want to know whether it is okay for a menstruating woman, wearing anklets, to travel in a chauffer driven car, accompanied by a maternal uncle, at night, but before Isha, to another town more than forty, but less than fifty kilometers away.... then please visit this site.

P.S In case you are curious - the devil is in the details: you see, it all depends on whether the chauffer is her son-in-law or first cousin third removed and whether they have had dinner or not.

Jazak-Allah-Khair!

Your Humble Brother in Faith

Hamid

Farangi_Kush

re:123

`Wearing tattered jeans,grundge dressing,nose-ring piercing etc etc are not blind followings.This is fashion.You become a fan.But when you follow the sunnat(esentially life-style practice) of that greatest man who ever graced this universe and try to follow it to the letter then you are not a fan,you are a fanatic--same stroke,different beat.`

Comparing contemporary fashions with religion? Doesn`t that demean the latter? Ignoring, of course, that you`ve kinda picked upon the extremes of fashion, that are often criticized..

I must question, however, your assertion that people are objecting to the sunnat. What people object (which is a mild word) to, is details such as massacring the populace of people you`ve conquered, freely advocating death/persecution to the Other (whatever the Other is), machinegunning or beating with rubber hoses those women who don`t do hijab and similar such activities carried out by those who profess to be the religion`s greatest defenders. I find it hard to believe that any such actions fall into Sunnah.

re:128

Faroo-e-Din and Uroo-e-din.. what, exactly, is emphasised as being the 5 pillars of Islam? Any text you can find in, say, schools, lists only namaz etc ie the rituals (apart from a passing mention that Allah forgives all sins other than shirq). The imams I`ve heard at khutba are also busy emphasising the rituals, when, that is, they`re not calling for death to the US/Israel/India. Ijtehad has been abandoned anyway, it often seems.

rajanjua:#103 & # 117

Bearing in mind that you have enough learning to spot the muslim fiqh & denyat I refer to hereunder,I venture to bring this to light for those who might benefit from it.

What is written below is a way to explain concepts.These are not concepts unto themselves.

The five pillars of Islam are:(called Usool-i-deen as opposed to faroo-i-deen,abou which later)

1.(Unflinching belief in) Tauheed--Unity of Allah

2.(an attribute of Allah

but just to highlight

belief in HIS ) Adl----- Justice

3.(Unflinching belief in) Nabuvvat--All messengers.

4.(belief in the idea of) Imamat--for present-day

guidance for all

5.(unflinching belief in) Qiyamat--Resurrection &

last day,Judgement

Not only these are our Bill of Rights(if you love such expressions) but they are important in their SERIAL order as well.

The FIRST two would make one a muslim in his heart without knowing the actual message of the prophet(like those who are leaning to become muslims or many born muslims who either care not to or never had the werewithal,ability or opportunity to read Quran--the message).

The THIRD is a belief which in cnjuntion with the above two becomes our oath to induct us formally into the fold of Islam.

The FOURTH pillar is for us to seek Ijtehad in contemporary times.I want an interested person to look further into it him/herself.

The FIFTH belief is an integral part because this keeps us on our toes,so to speak.Reminding oneself of the mortality & to be accountable keeps our judgements & decisions moral--or at least that is the idea .

The idea to write the above is to whet the appetite & whosoever is interested to study further is now on his/her own.



& now the Froo-e-deen

meaning practises(not beliefs--but rituals)

which are Vajib(essentials) but if not carried out do not invalidate ones `DENIZENSHIP` of the Citadel of Islam.Again these are in order of priority.

1.Namaaz

2.Roza.

3.Zakaat

4.Khums

5.Hajj

6.Jihad.

All of the above explanations have been the outcome of research & extensive discourse by the Ulema(yes the bearded ones,the fundos,orthodox ones etc etc).So therefore one who has rudimentary learning in general & of Islam in particular better not approach the subject matter flippantly & lend support to the belief about the jahalat of being a Ba Ba Blacksheep madressa-walla.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.



Allah knows best.May He forgive me for being either simplifying the matter or being pedantic & scholarly about it.

wassalaam

My Goodness !! and you have mentioned Lucknow.Dammit ! thats where I live.