The Bombing

RE: ranjanjua # 103

Raja ji,

Your (attempted) simplification of Islam reminds me of a famous sher by Ustad Imam Din of Gujrat.

hari hari ghaas par gadha charnay laga

urdu aati nahi, shairi karnay laga

Ali

Dear Temporal

we might have to simply have to agree to disagree on this one, we might have different conceptions on the role of ritual.

These are not something empty or devoid of blessings. -What is to be avoided are not rituals, but the dogmatism of rituals: To insist that ``my rituals`` are better than ``your rituals`` or that if you dont do such and such ritual you are a bad person, or worse not part of ``our community`` (muslim, hindu whatever).

These ``focal points`` these visits to the shrines and prayers and seeking of blessings are all part of what leads to our being better persons or creation of peace. Sacred cities, sacred places exist in all traditions -in the case of the indigenous peoples of the Americas these have often been the mountains and rivers of this beautiful land -that we may look at as nothing more than water and rocks. But for the native americans these carry special sacred meaning and blessings. For many Muslims, amongst other sacred places, the kaaba is one such place.

With respect to acting on what the sufis did, and not just visiting shrines:

Part of the problem with the discussion in Muslim circles on ethics, and anti-corruption, and change is the assumption that people can just change with a snap, or that if we talk about it enough things will change, and if only we `acted` in a certain way things would be okay. But what is not talked about is *how * is one to go about changing. In the Islamic tradition the Sufis did a lot of work on this, that is based not only on ``experiencing`` divinity, but also on the act of zikr (remembrence of God, through chanting, through music, silent meditation etc.) and daily living of attempting to look at one`s self objectively. All this is part of `barraka` -as is a visit and prayers at a shrine, that helps us to really change, and get in touch with our nature.

-This body is a tent for the spirit,

or like an ark for Noah

- so Rumi writes in the Mathnawi

re: temporal #99,

Wow I`m on a roll!, I must add, that I haven`t enjoyed interacting on Chowk, as much as I am right now on this article for a long time.

So please temporal, just imagine me smiling when you read all my opinions on the interacts to this article. :)

`` another term that needs to be seriously

revisited is Mullah and its various synonyms, Maulvi, Maulana, Aalim

(pl. Ulemaa) or Allama, Mufti, Mujhtahid, etc.

Perhaps I am opening another can of worms: Does Islam sanctions

Ulema? Who are they. What is their role in sustaining and

preserving the role of religion in our present day lives. How have

they succeeded or failed?

What is their role in making a simple

straightforward book so complicated?``

If we all agreed that the Quran was a straighforward book, then we`d all agree that we don`t need Ulema. :)

However is the Quran really just a ``simple straightforward book`` as you put it? From my angle, the Quran is a book full of symbolism and essentially a very complex collection of poetry. Then again, i`m one of those (please don`t shudder) engineers from whom everything that rhymes is complex poetry. :)

Again it`s all a frame of reference.

The Quran also at the same time very vague when it deals with certain issues. Which I think is good because it enables Muslims to adapt Islam to the 21st century and not just 560 A.D. It becomes really useful then to have Ulema to provide some guidance on how to apply the Islamic principles stated in the Quran to modern day living.

This said, I don`t think any old John Doe should be able to walk up after a couple of years of study and claim to be a scholar! Just as there are medical schools to properly train doctors and other schools for other studies, there needs to be a structured religous studies school, before one can accurately take stock of their religous opinions. Just like there are Bachelors, Masters and Phds, there needs to be a similar level for the Ulema. In Qom, Iran, there is such a system in place for Shia scholars. Not just anybody can become an ``ayatollah``, it takes many many years of study and ``promotions`` so to speak before this happens. Which is why most of the Ayatollahs have such grey beards. :)

Regards,

Fozia

re: temporal #102,

``Wow, Fozia, are we reading from the same book -- the same page?

Far from it! I can perceive a sense of fatalism and frustration in

what you are alluding.``

My point was not intended to come across as cynical or frustrated. Actually I was just trying to point out that there is more to Islam than just the 5 pillars. I am not bashing rituals, rather I wanted to remind people that in addition to the rituals there are other fundamental principles that are also being constantly mentioned in the Quran and through the Sayings of the Prophet. These include Justice, Truth, Kindness etc.

However because these are more abstract concepts they are often harder for people to relate to and enforce upon themselves. Especially when compared to the more concrete ``pray, fast etc`` elements of Islam.

The reason why I said what I did about the 5 pillars is because too often people have a tendency to try and use a mental checklist to come to conclusions about how to be a good muslim in our daily lives. Rather they should attempt to look at the ``whole picture``.

I do believe that rituals combined with an adherence to the fundamental principles of Islam is ultimatly the goal in our lives as a Muslim.

Regards,

Fozia

re: rajanjua,

rajanjua your comment:

``Don`t you think that sprituality lies in acting on the message of Sufis

rather than visiting their shrines``

was right along the lines of what I was thinking.

By the same token, I don`t think it`s completly wrong to visit a shrine or give some reverence to the Ka`aba, shia shrines etc, as long as there is a level of moderation to it. Let`s not get overexcited and give our Islamic symbols more importance than they were originally accorded.

Is the goal of visiting these shrines to somehow have the Pirs/Imams/or Prophets interceed on our behalf to enable us to receive blessings from Allah or is to remind us of the level of piety these very fine Muslim role models had and for us to attempt to emulate their actions?

Regards,

Fozia

rajanjua #103:

You will be treading thin waters by arbitrarily changing the pillars. Each one of the original pillars is a means to an end.

rgds

t

Altaf Bhimji #98:


Welcome. Haven’t seen you here in ages.

To each his/her particular mode of attaining peace.

Visit a dargah, watch the sunset, birds chirping, kids playing in the yard, candlelight trysts, walk along a secluded beach, a good read, whatever. Enjoy and appreciate nature or its offerings. But making a ritual out of that is what one must avoid.

You say, “Sure, we are asked to look at signs all around and within us, but there are places that carry significant spiritual blessings.....”

Spiritual blessings? Among other reasons Ka’aba is needed primarily for one reason. As a global focal point for daily prayers and the Haj. Assuming there is no Ka’aba tomorrow, how would Muslims pray and perform Haj? In which direction one prays in the middle of a desert on a cloudy night? Allah is everywhere. Haj is a congress of the Ummah. Following the assumption, it could be held near there, or anywhere else on God’s earth. Let the Ulema and the Ummah decide.

regards

temporal

Re: #98 Altaf Bhimji

Don`t you think that sprituality lies in acting on the message of Sufis rather than visiting their shrines (which in itself is more of a historical curiosity for me). Faith when ritualised becomes religion and all organised religions lose the inherent essence of the message. Would`nt life be nicer if the five pillars of Islam are changed to:

1. Kailma

2. Humanity

3. Justice

4. Truthfulness

5. Kindness

To me that`s the eternal message of Muhammed and Islam. If only half the emphasis is placed on these rather than namaz, roza, etc.,

agar ho ishq to hay kufr bhi musalmani

na ho to mard-i-musalman bhi kafir-o-zindeeq

- Iqbal

fozia #96:

You ask, “ Would one not agree that it`s possible for a Muslim who religiously follows the 5 pillars of Islam to still be someone that you and I both agree is NOT a good person?.......... Nowhere in the 5 pillars do we see anything about lying, cheating, backbiting, bribery, being fair and generally being an ethical, kind and just person.”

Wow, Fozia, are we reading from the same book -- the same page?

Far from it! I can perceive a sense of fatalism and frustration in what you are alluding.

Let us leave a detailed discussion on the discordance in form and substance, rituals and practice for another time. For now let it suffice that a basic understanding AND practice of Islam will and should lead to one becoming a better being.

Practical Islam does not inculcate unethical behavior by any stretch of imagination. Distorted Islam and the dichotomies perpetuated are something else. If there are weaknesses in individuals we should not blame the religion.

regards

temporal

fozia #96:

You ask, “ Would one not agree that it`s possible for a Muslim who religiously follows the 5 pillars of Islam to still be someone that you and I both agree is NOT a good person?.......... Nowhere in the 5 pillars do we see anything about lying, cheating, backbiting, bribery, being fair and generally being an ethical, kind and just person.”

Wow, Fozia, are we reading from the same book -- the same page?

Far from it! I can perceive a sense of fatalism and frustration in what you are alluding.

Let us leave a detailed discussion on the discordance in form and substance, rituals and practice for another time. For now let it suffice that a basic understanding AND practice of Islam will and should lead to one becoming a better being.

Practical Islam does not inculcate unethical behavior by any stretch of imagination. Distorted Islam and the dichotomies perpetuated are something else. If there are weaknesses in individuals we should not blame the religion.

regards

temporal

hamidm #95:

Thanks for the revisit. Now this is vintage hamid.

Seriously, you must write for the Chowk, non seriously.

regards.

temporal

sadaf #88:

Thanks.

You say, “The fundamentalists would`ve become even more paranoid that the entire world is trying to destroy Islam and more moderates would`ve converted to fundamentalists.”


Your concerns re: fundamentalists:

This term ‘fundamentalist’ as applied to Muslims has become a distorted catch-all for those that do not subscribe, even remotely, with one’s notion of what a Muslim should be.(And here, I’ll blame myself as well). Let us see,

fun·da·men·tal·ism n.

1 a:Often Fundamentalism. An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in 1920 in opposition to Liberalism and secularism.
1 b:Adherence to the theology of this movement.

2: A movement or point of view characterized by rigid adherence to fundamental or basic principles.


If we could go back in time and study that Medinite date farmer who asked Prophet Muhammed for some advice that killed his crop the following year, I am sure we will find that he led a simple puritanical existence. Simple joys of life, simple demands, obligations. This was also the time when there were no schisms in Islam.

Was he a fundamentalist?

Transport him magically from there to the 1990s. Two possible sets of scenarios.

1: (a): A small time farmer in Phulwari Shareef. (b): A Malaysian peasant. (c): A Bangladeshi fisherman. (d): A sub Saharan nomad. (e): An Egyptian fellaheen. (f): An Afghan farmer (hopefully not cultivating export quality opium under Mullah Omar’s nose.)

2: (a): A ‘Mujahid’ -- Afghan, Kashmiri, Moro, etc.(b): A blue/white collar immigrant in New York, Chicago, Montreal who insists on getting time off for Juma Prayers (c): An undergrad student belonging to Jamiat-e-Talaba, or MSA or ISNA. (d): Any Darul Uloom student from Karachi, Raiwind, Charsadda. (e) Any Akhwaan volunteer student.

It must be recognized that the geo-political and other demands and pressures on the date farmer and those in set 1 and 2 were different. However, the Islamic practices, conditions and religious orientations and inclinations remaining constant on set 1 and set 2, why is it so easy to brand set 2 fundamentalist?

I am sorry I do not have cut and dried answers.

But I do know we have to come up with proper descriptive word/s for simple or non-threatening ‘fundamentalists’ as opposed to those who resort to assault and violence, of thought or deed and are intolerant of another view point. And then we run into a catch 22 there as well ---- one’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.

Please allow me ....... another term that needs to be seriously revisited is Mullah and its various synonyms, Maulvi, Maulana, Aalim (pl. Ulemaa) or Allama, Mufti, Mujhtahid, etc.

Perhaps I am opening another can of worms: Does Islam sanctions Ulema? Who are they. What is their role in sustaining and preserving the role of religion in our present day lives. How have they succeeded or failed? What is their role in making a simple straightforward book so complicated?

Does Qur’an mention them? As a non-Arab I do need to consult them for interpretation. But only in the context I would consult a Ghalib expert who can open up textual and contextual meanings of some couplet.

But to place them between myself and Allah? If that was meant to be, there would be a sentence or two somewhere in those thirty chapters.

I apologise for raising more questions. but the answeres would benefit us all.

regards

t

A very intreasting article Temporal;

a couple of points.. while there is much talk about idol, and idol worship etc. there is a place for the Kaaba, and even visits to shrines etc. These places, for millions, carry what is known as ``barraka`` loosely translated as blessing. The sense of this blessing is not merely idol worship...

Yes, one can suggest that this might come from ``within us`` or that we might look beyond the symbols to the meaning or ``essence`` of the symbol. But this stage of being able to live with the essence only comes at a stage for most humans after considerable work has been done in the spiritual realm. These rituals, these symbols are like the body within which the soul is, one cannot live without the body, and so we cannot be without our symbols (see the poetry of Maulana Rumi on this). Sure, we are asked to look at signs all around and within us, but there are places that carry significant spiritual blessings. The kaaba is one such important place, other also important, but less so, are the shrines of sufi saints that one will find all over muslim majority countries.

These shrines that many wahaabis, and ``modern and post-modern`` muslims like to put down, are a place for solace, and peace. -Aside from the fact that they also function as a place where many many poor people can find food. Sure, there are those that prey on poor people in such places -especially in large cities like Karachi, but they also provide a much needed sense of being for many. -Besides, the sufis who are burried in these shrines, and the different schools of sufis that might visit these places are probably more to the liking of the ``liberals`` who otherwise think of these rituals and visits as without merit.

What to do if what you write transpired, well, I`d suggest just build another one...

Gems from TFT

Zelim Khan and CTBT



Quoted in daily Pakistan, the visiting Chechen leader Zelim Khan said in Lahore that Pakistan`s nuclear programme belonged to the Islamic world therefore it should consult with the Islamic countries before signing the CTBT. (All the Islamic states have already signed the CTBT).



Hijackers and pants



According to daily Din, Afghan hijackers took off their shalwars and put on pants as soon as they reached London. They also shaved off the beards mandatory in Afghanistan. Those who returned to Afghanistan said the British food was smelly which decided them to return.

re: temporal #93

``----Yet we find the original intent and spirit is amiss. Don’t we find

that Ka’aba has almost become another idol? ``

To a certain extent I agree with that statement. I think fundamentally human beings have a hard time relating to the spiritual world on an abstract level. If one looks carefully, the fundamental aspects of a Islam are: Unity in creation, knowledge, truth, justice, day of accountability (qiyamat) and equality for all in front of the Supreme Being.

For the average person who wants to practice Islam, these guidlines are very vague and difficult to relate to. It`s much easier instead to give more importance on the ritualistic aspects of Islam. Because rituals are non-abstract and something we can see. By extension Islamic ``symbols`` take on more importance than what they may have been originally intended for.

It`s for this reason that the Ka`aba is held with such reverence in some muslims` minds, that it begins to resemble a form of a idol. Another example that comes to my mind in India/Pakistan is the tradition of Pir Shrines. These are shrines built by human beings for a person who probably was a very good muslim and did many good deeds for the people that he lived among. However many hundreds of years later, these shrines have taken on a life of their own and visiting one and making a prayer there is akin to ensuring a ``miracle`` occuring. This is viewed as more important than following the Islamic tenents as written in the Quran.

To fully illustrate the point I was trying to make about rituals vs fundamental beliefs of Islam-

Let me ask a question: Would one not agree that it`s possible for a muslim who religously follows the 5 pillars of Islam to still be someone that you and I both agree is NOT a good person?

How so? One asks... Well the 5 pillars are: Belief in One God (Allah), prayer, Fasting, Charity giving (zakat) and Hajj.

Nowhere in the 5 pillars do we see anything about lying, cheating, backbiting, bribery, being fair and generally being an ethical, kind and just person.

So technically it IS possible to fulfill all 5 pillars, yet still not be someone that you and I would trust!

Aside from the belief in One God, the other 4 pillars comprise some of the ritualistic (read non-abstract easy to see) aspects of Islam, moreso than the fundamental aspects and themes that are also mentioned repeatedly in the Quran.

Regards,

Fozia

Mullaah Omar, save us from temporal beings who are posessed by the divine devil - Prince Iblees the Shaitan. First, it was that heretic-apostate Rushdie who walked with Jack the Ripper in Sodom City and now walks with the Son of Sam in New Gomorrah. He, who created Reza Haider to defame the First Momin Zia-ul-Haq,has given rise to this creed of heretics and blasphemers who think they can escape the wrath of Allah simply because they are protected by the First Amendment...... Shame on those who would have latter day Jews destroy what their ancestors, Ibrahim and his almost-sacrificed son Ishmael, raised together! Oh sure there was trouble in the family and Sarah and Hagar didn`t get along ... but to have Issac reach from the grave and destroy what his half-brother and father built..... shame, shame, shame. What kind of posessed man could think such unclean thoughts.......Even the Second Amendment cannot protect these... these ... tools of the infidel, lazy louts with a warped sense of religious humour...... Beware the wrath of Allah as manifested by the ababeel and bearded lashkars from the North !

Didn`t Allah promise to protect his House himself .... didn`t he send birds to kill elephants ... and didn`t he send a green-cloaked angel to guard the Ravi Bridge at Shadara in 1971. ..... I witnessed it myself ... I saw this gentle green giant catch the bombs as they dropped from Kafir MIGs and SUs and toss them into the river to fizzle harmlessly, while children splashed and clapped and hooligans hooted ! So, I say, how is it possible for a lone flier from the House of David to travel two thousand miles across the House of Saud and destroy the House of Allah...... never ! Never, not ever, shall it happen.

Temporal, you play with fire ...... beware of the wrath of Allah ..... remember Lucifer was the archangle before he was cast out ..... you are a mere mortal, or so you claim .... maybe the Prince has found a new home where once your soul resided.

P.S. I feel like yelling ``Takbeer !`` ...so here goes ``Takbeer !!!``