Salman Haider April 3, 2000
#27 Posted by Rdesikan on April 6, 2000 1:56:13 pm
An aside: a very interesting article
FIFTH COLUMN
In Talk Let`s Trust
India must engage Pakistan in constructive dialogue but the language must be stern
By Tavleen Singh
If there is one important lesson that we can learn from the message Bill Clinton delivered to the people of Pakistan during his five-hour halt in Islamabad it is that this is exactly the language we should be using when we talk to our favourite enemy. Instead, all we have done is gloat over what we see as the stern and unambiguous message the American President delivered.
Indians who watched his address on PTV exulted over the fact that he warned Pakistan the future did not belong to those who sought to redraw borders in blood but to those who worked towards reconciliation. We particularly liked it when he told Pakistan clearly that it could find itself increasingly isolated internationally if it continued sup-porting violence instead of pursuing peace and pointed out there was no military solution to the Kashmir problem.
In our exultation we have chosen to overlook that Clinton began his speech by saying he came as a friend, a friend who appreciated the long relationship his country had shared with Pakistan, and that what he had to say was as a friend. PTV, typically, chose to emphasise only this aspect of Clinton`s speech and we, typically, chose to concentrate on the stern message angle. Yet, it is only a combination of both friendship and tough talking that will bring us peace.
The initiative has to come from India because democratically elected leaders are far more likely to want peace than the combination of military men and mullahs who currently rule Pakistan. In fact it is quite clear Pakistan does not want peace as can be seen from any discussion on PTV and from the comments Pakistan`s former army chief General Aslam Baig made to the Washington Post. Baig said, ``We don`t need to enter into an arms race with India, but we cannot let Kashmir go. Let Kashmir become a bleeding wound for India. The costs will be heavy on both sides, but heavier for India.`` Military men make bad political analysts and worse economists so the general inevitably overlooked his country`s $38 billion foreign debt and the fact that it depends on the good graces of the World Bank and the IMF simply to survive.
Pakistan is not an easy country to talk to. Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee made the best effort possible in Lahore last year only to find himself resoundingly slapped in the face in Kargil a few months later. They say it was because Nawaz Sharif chose to back off from Kargil that he lost his job to the general who is believed to have been its mastermind. In India we have interpreted this to mean there is no point in attempting to talk to Pakistan. This is a mistake. We must talk to Pakistan and if we are unable to do it directly then we must do it through international mediators. To say this though, as I did in this column a couple of weeks ago, is to immediately evoke shock, horror and disbelief from our Ministry of External Affairs. You must not say this, an mea official told me bluntly, you do not know how bad our experiences have been with international mediation. He then read me a short lecture on the history of the Kashmir problem in which he graciously admitted that it was a few mistakes on our own part that had caused the upsurge of violence in 1989.
Like Pakistan we also must stop dwelling on the past and work towards ``reconciliation for the future``. So, instead of repeating ad nauseam that we will only talk to Pakistan when it stops sending in its terrorists we should agree to talk and even about Kashmir.
The world has changed a great deal since the Cold War ended -- as we saw from the Clinton mania that swept India while he was here -- and it is entirely possible that our case will be heard with more sympathy now than ever before. We know, and surely Pakistan`s military men know too, that there will be no further redrawing of India`s borders. It would be a pointless exercise, anyway, since handing over the Kashmir Valley would still leave 140 million Muslims in India.
Pakistan knows this too but hopes the loss of Kashmir will cause what they like to call ``the Balkanisation`` of India. It is not concern for the human rights of Kashmiris that motivates the jehad but the hope that India will break up again. We should point out that it is an obscenity to listen to human-rights lectures from a country that massacred three million Bengalis just 30 years ago and that now functions as a military dictatorship with a justice system that is almost surreal.
Our credibility, though, depends on whether our Iron Man home minister can come up with a domestic policy on Kashmir that goes beyond the purely military. Any political ideas Mr Advani? It also depends on whether we have the courage to admit there have been human-rights abuses in Kashmir and that they are unacceptable since terrorism is terrorism whether it comes from soldiers or terrorists. Peace in the Valley will help us enormously when we sit across the table with Pakistan because sit across the table we must.
FIFTH COLUMN
In Talk Let`s Trust
India must engage Pakistan in constructive dialogue but the language must be stern
By Tavleen Singh
If there is one important lesson that we can learn from the message Bill Clinton delivered to the people of Pakistan during his five-hour halt in Islamabad it is that this is exactly the language we should be using when we talk to our favourite enemy. Instead, all we have done is gloat over what we see as the stern and unambiguous message the American President delivered.
Indians who watched his address on PTV exulted over the fact that he warned Pakistan the future did not belong to those who sought to redraw borders in blood but to those who worked towards reconciliation. We particularly liked it when he told Pakistan clearly that it could find itself increasingly isolated internationally if it continued sup-porting violence instead of pursuing peace and pointed out there was no military solution to the Kashmir problem.
In our exultation we have chosen to overlook that Clinton began his speech by saying he came as a friend, a friend who appreciated the long relationship his country had shared with Pakistan, and that what he had to say was as a friend. PTV, typically, chose to emphasise only this aspect of Clinton`s speech and we, typically, chose to concentrate on the stern message angle. Yet, it is only a combination of both friendship and tough talking that will bring us peace.
The initiative has to come from India because democratically elected leaders are far more likely to want peace than the combination of military men and mullahs who currently rule Pakistan. In fact it is quite clear Pakistan does not want peace as can be seen from any discussion on PTV and from the comments Pakistan`s former army chief General Aslam Baig made to the Washington Post. Baig said, ``We don`t need to enter into an arms race with India, but we cannot let Kashmir go. Let Kashmir become a bleeding wound for India. The costs will be heavy on both sides, but heavier for India.`` Military men make bad political analysts and worse economists so the general inevitably overlooked his country`s $38 billion foreign debt and the fact that it depends on the good graces of the World Bank and the IMF simply to survive.
Pakistan is not an easy country to talk to. Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee made the best effort possible in Lahore last year only to find himself resoundingly slapped in the face in Kargil a few months later. They say it was because Nawaz Sharif chose to back off from Kargil that he lost his job to the general who is believed to have been its mastermind. In India we have interpreted this to mean there is no point in attempting to talk to Pakistan. This is a mistake. We must talk to Pakistan and if we are unable to do it directly then we must do it through international mediators. To say this though, as I did in this column a couple of weeks ago, is to immediately evoke shock, horror and disbelief from our Ministry of External Affairs. You must not say this, an mea official told me bluntly, you do not know how bad our experiences have been with international mediation. He then read me a short lecture on the history of the Kashmir problem in which he graciously admitted that it was a few mistakes on our own part that had caused the upsurge of violence in 1989.
Like Pakistan we also must stop dwelling on the past and work towards ``reconciliation for the future``. So, instead of repeating ad nauseam that we will only talk to Pakistan when it stops sending in its terrorists we should agree to talk and even about Kashmir.
The world has changed a great deal since the Cold War ended -- as we saw from the Clinton mania that swept India while he was here -- and it is entirely possible that our case will be heard with more sympathy now than ever before. We know, and surely Pakistan`s military men know too, that there will be no further redrawing of India`s borders. It would be a pointless exercise, anyway, since handing over the Kashmir Valley would still leave 140 million Muslims in India.
Pakistan knows this too but hopes the loss of Kashmir will cause what they like to call ``the Balkanisation`` of India. It is not concern for the human rights of Kashmiris that motivates the jehad but the hope that India will break up again. We should point out that it is an obscenity to listen to human-rights lectures from a country that massacred three million Bengalis just 30 years ago and that now functions as a military dictatorship with a justice system that is almost surreal.
Our credibility, though, depends on whether our Iron Man home minister can come up with a domestic policy on Kashmir that goes beyond the purely military. Any political ideas Mr Advani? It also depends on whether we have the courage to admit there have been human-rights abuses in Kashmir and that they are unacceptable since terrorism is terrorism whether it comes from soldiers or terrorists. Peace in the Valley will help us enormously when we sit across the table with Pakistan because sit across the table we must.
#26 Posted by Moez on April 6, 2000 1:03:29 am
Re: Sameer #25
Sir ji, I had read your earlier replies which were quite a read but this...what is this a knee jerk reaction to your emotions. You have weird sense of justice, by conveniently judging the two extremes side by side and labeled it corruption of one`s hands reach. You trying to suggest that Musaraff is as bad as Sharif, without providing any concrete evidence beside the plot stuff. You were clever their by giving the example of Doodhwala & Dhaheewala, it can win court cases but not the sympathy for Nawaz Sharif. And you further went and said he brought down the inflation, but last time I checked the common man had still the hard time getting by and suicidal rate was high, no wonder the government by playing with numbers, dress up the inflation rate to look & feel good.
The list of Mian Nawaz Sharif vices, corruption, deceptions, and all that is evil are long. Remember, Supreme Court storming, Democracy died that day so save your tears for real plight of Pakistani Awaam, whose hope & aspiration has been hijacked since the day one. Dont shed more tears for so called looters destroyer(ZAB & all after him) of democratic institutions, which they RAPED at their whims.
So, be realistic, Pakistan is not isolated today because of CE, the process was already started long ago by our so called elected representative with their nut-case policies.
And one more thing Musaraff didnt land on CE job, CE job landed on him.
rgds,
Moez Momin.
Sir ji, I had read your earlier replies which were quite a read but this...what is this a knee jerk reaction to your emotions. You have weird sense of justice, by conveniently judging the two extremes side by side and labeled it corruption of one`s hands reach. You trying to suggest that Musaraff is as bad as Sharif, without providing any concrete evidence beside the plot stuff. You were clever their by giving the example of Doodhwala & Dhaheewala, it can win court cases but not the sympathy for Nawaz Sharif. And you further went and said he brought down the inflation, but last time I checked the common man had still the hard time getting by and suicidal rate was high, no wonder the government by playing with numbers, dress up the inflation rate to look & feel good.
The list of Mian Nawaz Sharif vices, corruption, deceptions, and all that is evil are long. Remember, Supreme Court storming, Democracy died that day so save your tears for real plight of Pakistani Awaam, whose hope & aspiration has been hijacked since the day one. Dont shed more tears for so called looters destroyer(ZAB & all after him) of democratic institutions, which they RAPED at their whims.
So, be realistic, Pakistan is not isolated today because of CE, the process was already started long ago by our so called elected representative with their nut-case policies.
And one more thing Musaraff didnt land on CE job, CE job landed on him.
rgds,
Moez Momin.
#25 Posted by SameerJB on April 5, 2000 11:12:26 pm
Umairr: When it comes to corruption, it is a matter of one`s arm-reach. The corruption of a milk-man is adding water to the milk and for a clerk is taking home some stationary from the office. A lot of white-collar corruption is actually protected by the law. Similarly defaultig and grabbing the choicest plots are lawful corruptions. Defaulting and bankrupcies happen all the time everywhere. Please understand I never implied at anytime that NS did not twist the law to his benefit. It is more of a case of using advantage of the position to milk the system to your advantage. Similarly Asif Zardari can claim to be the middle-man in bringing two willing parties together and was getting 10 percent comission which is legitimate in most capitalist societies. But he was also using the advantage of his position as a public servant.
There are at least two ways of looking at corruption: 1) Either corruption in all forms is bad; 2) It takes the money away from the nation, where it should have been used for the interest of the country as in the case of private non-performing bank loans or wasting on non-productiive non-developmental programs.
It is easy to conclude from type 2 corruption that the Kargill Adventure as well as Kashmir insurgencies are bleeding the national exchequer to which even PM has referred to recently. Is it not then type 2 corruption? Similarly is it not a corruption when Shahid Javed Burki as finance minister during the interim government of Miraj Khalid took out a loan from a private bank at 25 percent interest arguing that Pakistan was in dire need for it at that time? The point is that corruption comes in all forms and colors and even assigning a position to an inept person is a corruption. So why an unknown person whose only civilian experience as a short tme VC of Punjab University was atotal failure, is appointed as the governor of Punjab?
So awarding perks or plots, even though not against any law, is a protected corruption. The fogure of 16 crore was reported by someone on the Chowk and was repeatedly used. It is only 3.2 million dollars. I do not think it sounds terribly unreasonable.
The stories about PM being eyes and ears of NS as a core commander have been in circulation widely. The rejection of general Ali Quli Khan in favor of PM has been repeatedly attributed to this cozy relationship between PM and NS in the past.
And last thing about corruption. How come Chaudhary Shujaat and Pervez Elahi have niether been arrested not put on ECL. According to all the banks data, they are a close second in defaulting most. While NS family has made a big chunk payment to UBL against their default, Chaudharies have not paid a single penny.
Despite all the alleged or even believable corruption by NS government, theier best achievement of bringing the inflation rate down from 11.6 % to a manageable 5.3 % despite the hardships due to the sanctions following nuclear tests.
Thanks Umairr for taking the time out to respond to my post in great detail. It was the approaching of April 6, which influenced the use of harsh words in my post #20. Otherwise you know I am a calm and peace-loving person.
There are at least two ways of looking at corruption: 1) Either corruption in all forms is bad; 2) It takes the money away from the nation, where it should have been used for the interest of the country as in the case of private non-performing bank loans or wasting on non-productiive non-developmental programs.
It is easy to conclude from type 2 corruption that the Kargill Adventure as well as Kashmir insurgencies are bleeding the national exchequer to which even PM has referred to recently. Is it not then type 2 corruption? Similarly is it not a corruption when Shahid Javed Burki as finance minister during the interim government of Miraj Khalid took out a loan from a private bank at 25 percent interest arguing that Pakistan was in dire need for it at that time? The point is that corruption comes in all forms and colors and even assigning a position to an inept person is a corruption. So why an unknown person whose only civilian experience as a short tme VC of Punjab University was atotal failure, is appointed as the governor of Punjab?
So awarding perks or plots, even though not against any law, is a protected corruption. The fogure of 16 crore was reported by someone on the Chowk and was repeatedly used. It is only 3.2 million dollars. I do not think it sounds terribly unreasonable.
The stories about PM being eyes and ears of NS as a core commander have been in circulation widely. The rejection of general Ali Quli Khan in favor of PM has been repeatedly attributed to this cozy relationship between PM and NS in the past.
And last thing about corruption. How come Chaudhary Shujaat and Pervez Elahi have niether been arrested not put on ECL. According to all the banks data, they are a close second in defaulting most. While NS family has made a big chunk payment to UBL against their default, Chaudharies have not paid a single penny.
Despite all the alleged or even believable corruption by NS government, theier best achievement of bringing the inflation rate down from 11.6 % to a manageable 5.3 % despite the hardships due to the sanctions following nuclear tests.
Thanks Umairr for taking the time out to respond to my post in great detail. It was the approaching of April 6, which influenced the use of harsh words in my post #20. Otherwise you know I am a calm and peace-loving person.
#24 Posted by jazba99 on April 5, 2000 11:12:26 pm
I hope that the general pays a wee bit of attention to what you entreated him to!!!!....
I can only pray that he does and pray that this last ( how many times have I said that ) hope of our survival would yield SOMEthing concrete. We, as Pakistanis, have resigned ourselves to the fact that `` it will remain as it is..nothing would change``..May ALlah help us.
As for SOME PEOPLE WHO POINTED TO THE ISOLATION AN ELSE:
true we need to be in the limelight , out of our self-imposed isolation but folks, `agar hum ultay bhi latukk jaien tau bhi yeh loag hum ko accept nahin karain gay`
..forgive me for being a `` complexed soul `` but what had our WESTERN MASTERS given us in times of `` BLISS `` ( when lahore used to be a stop over and KLM used to operate and US aid was forthcoming``...etc etc etc
Save us LORD!..cos until we change our brown sahib thinking ..nothing would bring us out of isolation...
Take care
Allah haafiz
ACERBICJAZBATI
I can only pray that he does and pray that this last ( how many times have I said that ) hope of our survival would yield SOMEthing concrete. We, as Pakistanis, have resigned ourselves to the fact that `` it will remain as it is..nothing would change``..May ALlah help us.
As for SOME PEOPLE WHO POINTED TO THE ISOLATION AN ELSE:
true we need to be in the limelight , out of our self-imposed isolation but folks, `agar hum ultay bhi latukk jaien tau bhi yeh loag hum ko accept nahin karain gay`
..forgive me for being a `` complexed soul `` but what had our WESTERN MASTERS given us in times of `` BLISS `` ( when lahore used to be a stop over and KLM used to operate and US aid was forthcoming``...etc etc etc
Save us LORD!..cos until we change our brown sahib thinking ..nothing would bring us out of isolation...
Take care
Allah haafiz
ACERBICJAZBATI
#23 Posted by Umairr on April 5, 2000 9:10:10 pm
Sameer #20: You have made some interesting accusations. Could you explain them in furthur detail:
``Musharraf is a corrupt person of Ist degree, just like many of the politicians. It is only a matter of one`s arm-reach. If politicians hand can reach the bank more easily than the generals, most of the loans defaulters would ne from the politicians.``
It is quite possible that if someone had access to the banks like the polticians, they would become corrupt also. However, does that mean that they should be considered loan defaulters (even though they have not defaulted on any loans), under the assumption that they would have defaulted had they had the same access as the politicians. Shouldn`t a person have to first commit the crime of loan default, before he can be considered a loan defaulter?
``Whereas an army general sitting on the 16 crore worth of residential plots is a corrupt of another kind. The top brass gets the choicest plots in every new military residential scheme. Obviously, Musharraf in not going to build 7-8 house--he will sell most of them to make money.``
How did you come up with the figure of 16 crores? Having wealth is not a crime. Every society needs rich people to function. Gaining wealth through illegal means is a crime. As long as wealth is gained throuhg legal means, it is alright, and should even be encouraged.
You are correct that generals get the choiciest plots. However, there is a methodology under which these plots are distributed. They get the plots that are allocated to them. These are not illegally allocated to them. I was a member of one of the military housing schemes. The reason these plots are worth so much are because the military has an extremely good reputation of builiding defence societies. So they purchase cheap land in the outskirts of big cities, and sell the land to the military personnel at the actual price of the land. The moment they start developing the land, its price soars. It is like buying a stock at a low price, and watching its price rise. The military doesn`t steal the land from anyone. And its personnel pay good hard earned money for it, saved over long years. The only problem in my opinion is that in the present system, the generals get more than their share. They should be distributed amongst the junior officers a little more. However, as a whole this is not corruption in my opinion, since nothing is stolen by the military. Everything is paid for and distributed at market prices.
``It is also corruption when one toadies to the prime minister and bad mouths about his colleagues behind their back, to get to the top.``
Under normal military traditions, potential names of the next COAS are forwarded by the previous COAS. He gives a short list of a few of the generals whom he thinks would make good choices. Any one of them would be alright. The prime minsiter decides who in his opinion out of the short list would be a better political choice. However, all of them are qualified. I doubt anyone can just bad mouth his colleagues and convince the prime minister to appoint him the COAS.
``Once reaching there, arm twisting to get the JCSC position is also corruption.``
The position of JCSC is only a figurehead position. It is like the president`s position. Infact there was discussion of actually eliminating this position. It is senior to the COAS in protocol, however it has no executive power. There is no tradition of promoting the COAS to the position of JCSC in the middle of his tenure. Nawaz Sharif wanted to get rid of Musharraf, and appoint his own man Zia-ud-din in the position of COAS. He had just fired (resigned) Karamat. Another COAS being fired would have turned the army into a joke. So he wanted to promote Musharraf to JCSC, and open up the position of COAS for Zia. Just like no prime minister would willingly want the position of president, similarly no COAS would willingly aspire to become the JCSC.
``He started plnning to overthrow almost as soon as he was appointed COAS. He started moving away all those generals from Islamabad, Karach and Lahore--who were known to oppose military takeover.``
There is nothing indicating that he moved the generals for the reasons you have mentioned. The moment a new COAS is appointed (just like the moment a new CEO is appointed), he appoints his own team of senior generals at critical positions. This is quite common. This is true in business also.
I have tried to objectively discuss the comments you have made, with rules that apply to all generals and not specifically Musharraf. I would be interested in knowing how you came up with your opinions.
Regarding the coup; you are correct, it is obviously unconstitutional. Most of the actions of the politicians were against the spirit of the constitution, though not against the technicalities of the constitution. So different people will have different opinions on the coup. I respect their opinions, and yours, on this issue. I tend to give prefer the person who is supporting the spirit of the constitution more than the person who is supporting its technicalities.
``Musharraf is a corrupt person of Ist degree, just like many of the politicians. It is only a matter of one`s arm-reach. If politicians hand can reach the bank more easily than the generals, most of the loans defaulters would ne from the politicians.``
It is quite possible that if someone had access to the banks like the polticians, they would become corrupt also. However, does that mean that they should be considered loan defaulters (even though they have not defaulted on any loans), under the assumption that they would have defaulted had they had the same access as the politicians. Shouldn`t a person have to first commit the crime of loan default, before he can be considered a loan defaulter?
``Whereas an army general sitting on the 16 crore worth of residential plots is a corrupt of another kind. The top brass gets the choicest plots in every new military residential scheme. Obviously, Musharraf in not going to build 7-8 house--he will sell most of them to make money.``
How did you come up with the figure of 16 crores? Having wealth is not a crime. Every society needs rich people to function. Gaining wealth through illegal means is a crime. As long as wealth is gained throuhg legal means, it is alright, and should even be encouraged.
You are correct that generals get the choiciest plots. However, there is a methodology under which these plots are distributed. They get the plots that are allocated to them. These are not illegally allocated to them. I was a member of one of the military housing schemes. The reason these plots are worth so much are because the military has an extremely good reputation of builiding defence societies. So they purchase cheap land in the outskirts of big cities, and sell the land to the military personnel at the actual price of the land. The moment they start developing the land, its price soars. It is like buying a stock at a low price, and watching its price rise. The military doesn`t steal the land from anyone. And its personnel pay good hard earned money for it, saved over long years. The only problem in my opinion is that in the present system, the generals get more than their share. They should be distributed amongst the junior officers a little more. However, as a whole this is not corruption in my opinion, since nothing is stolen by the military. Everything is paid for and distributed at market prices.
``It is also corruption when one toadies to the prime minister and bad mouths about his colleagues behind their back, to get to the top.``
Under normal military traditions, potential names of the next COAS are forwarded by the previous COAS. He gives a short list of a few of the generals whom he thinks would make good choices. Any one of them would be alright. The prime minsiter decides who in his opinion out of the short list would be a better political choice. However, all of them are qualified. I doubt anyone can just bad mouth his colleagues and convince the prime minister to appoint him the COAS.
``Once reaching there, arm twisting to get the JCSC position is also corruption.``
The position of JCSC is only a figurehead position. It is like the president`s position. Infact there was discussion of actually eliminating this position. It is senior to the COAS in protocol, however it has no executive power. There is no tradition of promoting the COAS to the position of JCSC in the middle of his tenure. Nawaz Sharif wanted to get rid of Musharraf, and appoint his own man Zia-ud-din in the position of COAS. He had just fired (resigned) Karamat. Another COAS being fired would have turned the army into a joke. So he wanted to promote Musharraf to JCSC, and open up the position of COAS for Zia. Just like no prime minister would willingly want the position of president, similarly no COAS would willingly aspire to become the JCSC.
``He started plnning to overthrow almost as soon as he was appointed COAS. He started moving away all those generals from Islamabad, Karach and Lahore--who were known to oppose military takeover.``
There is nothing indicating that he moved the generals for the reasons you have mentioned. The moment a new COAS is appointed (just like the moment a new CEO is appointed), he appoints his own team of senior generals at critical positions. This is quite common. This is true in business also.
I have tried to objectively discuss the comments you have made, with rules that apply to all generals and not specifically Musharraf. I would be interested in knowing how you came up with your opinions.
Regarding the coup; you are correct, it is obviously unconstitutional. Most of the actions of the politicians were against the spirit of the constitution, though not against the technicalities of the constitution. So different people will have different opinions on the coup. I respect their opinions, and yours, on this issue. I tend to give prefer the person who is supporting the spirit of the constitution more than the person who is supporting its technicalities.
#22 Posted by temporal on April 5, 2000 7:23:59 pm
Sameer #20:
Rehmat Hussain Jafri is one of the most well guarded person in Pakistan today. He is the judge of the Anti Terrorsit Court who will deliver his verdict tomorow at 11 am PST in the case against Mr. Nawaz Sharif.
There are only two verdsicts possible. Either way Mr. Sharif is in a no win position.
If he is found guilty, he will most certainly appeal to the High Court. The High Court has to render its decision within seven days. Then Mr. Sharif can move on to Supreme Court. There are no time restrictions on the apex court.
Regardless of what happens at the High and Supreme Courts, he must still face a myriad of corruption cases, some of which were before the courts prior to Oct.12, 1999.
Barring a change of government, a change of strategy or a heavenly miracle, Mr. Sharif is in it for the long haul.
From his cell the prospects of a roaming Benazir in exile must appear elusively pleasant for him.
He will not pay with his life. Times have changed. But politically he will be finished as a force in Pakistani politics. Is that good or bad the Court of Public Opinion will decide.
regards
temporal
Rehmat Hussain Jafri is one of the most well guarded person in Pakistan today. He is the judge of the Anti Terrorsit Court who will deliver his verdict tomorow at 11 am PST in the case against Mr. Nawaz Sharif.
There are only two verdsicts possible. Either way Mr. Sharif is in a no win position.
If he is found guilty, he will most certainly appeal to the High Court. The High Court has to render its decision within seven days. Then Mr. Sharif can move on to Supreme Court. There are no time restrictions on the apex court.
Regardless of what happens at the High and Supreme Courts, he must still face a myriad of corruption cases, some of which were before the courts prior to Oct.12, 1999.
Barring a change of government, a change of strategy or a heavenly miracle, Mr. Sharif is in it for the long haul.
From his cell the prospects of a roaming Benazir in exile must appear elusively pleasant for him.
He will not pay with his life. Times have changed. But politically he will be finished as a force in Pakistani politics. Is that good or bad the Court of Public Opinion will decide.
regards
temporal
#21 Posted by tahmed321 on April 5, 2000 6:31:48 pm
Umairr #13 writes: ``Hallelujah!!!! Wattoo awarded 4 years RI, Rs. 4m fine``
Sic Semper Avarus Gens (Latin for ``thus to all greedy people``).
Sic Semper Avarus Gens (Latin for ``thus to all greedy people``).
#20 Posted by dawood on April 5, 2000 6:31:48 pm
Solitude
``So Iqbal plagiarized from George Orwell`s 1984 just like a certain someone ripped off of the bible and torah :)``
You Devil... you like to peas in the po(n)d don`t you? Anyway ..
(1) Get the year (1984?) correct
(2) Write more
(3) :)
``So Iqbal plagiarized from George Orwell`s 1984 just like a certain someone ripped off of the bible and torah :)``
You Devil... you like to peas in the po(n)d don`t you? Anyway ..
(1) Get the year (1984?) correct
(2) Write more
(3) :)
#19 Posted by SameerJB on April 5, 2000 6:31:48 pm
Yesterday, April 4,2000 was indeed an anniversary of a very sad event 21 years ago when a prime minister (ZAB) was judicially murdered on trumped up charges, on the orders of a general, one AH Zia-Ulhaq. The history might repeat itself tomorrow when the fate of another prime minister(NS) is to be decided. This time there is another general AH Musharraf who is already on the record, talking about president`s rights to hear mercy pleas suggests that he alreadu knows what the decision is going to be.
21 years ago, my sister woke me up to tell the sad news of ZAB hanging. All of us were very sad, though none was a real ZAB fan. We would have cried a lot, had we known the future decisions by AH Zia-Ulhaq regarding Afghanistan war, drug culture, gun culture, jihadi culture, the MQM and SSP type organizations.
Fortunately, for some, future can be percieved based on the past experiences. It scares the hell out of me to think of things to come under Musharraf and company.
Musharraf is a corrupt person of Ist degree, just like many of the politicians. It is only a matter of one`s arm-reach. If politicians hand can reach the bank more easily than the generals, most of the loans defaulters would ne from the politicians. Whereas an army general sitting on the 16 crore worth of residential plots is a corrupt of another kind. The top brass gets the choicest plots in every new military residential scheme. Obviously, Musharraf in not going to build 7-8 house--he will sell most of them to make money. It is also corruption when one toadies to the prime minister and bad mouths about his colleagues behind their back, to get to the top. Once reaching there, arm twisting to get the JCSC position is also corruption. Of course the biggest corruption, punishable by death, is the overthrowing the democratically elected goverment despite numerous faults with this government.
General Asif Nawaz had difficulty with NS, he did not chose to overthrow; General Kakar asked both the prime minister and the president to resign instead of appointing himself as CE or CEO; General Karamat had problems with NS, yet he chose to resign instead of exacting revenge from NS. Enter the era of this general of Syed variety. He started plnning to overthrow almost as soon as he was appointed COAS. He started moving away all those generals from Islamabad, Karach and Lahore--who were known to oppose military takeover.
It was none of his business to interfere in the civilian matters. He has no right to be mad at the removal of his buddy general Moin from the governorship of Sindh. It was the right of prime minister when to order Kargill war and when to pull the plug, depending on the situation. The honorable way to oppose any decision of the higher authority is to resign. This is what happens everyday and everywhere. Only in some cases, a disgruntled former emloyee comes back loaded with ammunition and starts taking revenge from his bosses. This is exactly what happened in Pakistan on October 12, 1999.
It is not the matter of NS or elections, it is a matter of process through constitution. The constitution is the most sacred law of the land approved by all the good, the bad and the ugly elected representatives. This applies equallty to the leaders and employees of the state, including COAS.
In the absence of a due process, any Jihadi, Tablighi or Mullah with the help of some dedicated general has the same right to storm the prime minister house or presidency as Musharraf had. Why should one support law of the Jungle instead of laws of the civil society?
I am hoping for a saner decision tomorrow, though with my fingers crossed. I pray that history does not repeat itself and another prime minister has to face judicial murder on trumped up charges.
21 years ago, my sister woke me up to tell the sad news of ZAB hanging. All of us were very sad, though none was a real ZAB fan. We would have cried a lot, had we known the future decisions by AH Zia-Ulhaq regarding Afghanistan war, drug culture, gun culture, jihadi culture, the MQM and SSP type organizations.
Fortunately, for some, future can be percieved based on the past experiences. It scares the hell out of me to think of things to come under Musharraf and company.
Musharraf is a corrupt person of Ist degree, just like many of the politicians. It is only a matter of one`s arm-reach. If politicians hand can reach the bank more easily than the generals, most of the loans defaulters would ne from the politicians. Whereas an army general sitting on the 16 crore worth of residential plots is a corrupt of another kind. The top brass gets the choicest plots in every new military residential scheme. Obviously, Musharraf in not going to build 7-8 house--he will sell most of them to make money. It is also corruption when one toadies to the prime minister and bad mouths about his colleagues behind their back, to get to the top. Once reaching there, arm twisting to get the JCSC position is also corruption. Of course the biggest corruption, punishable by death, is the overthrowing the democratically elected goverment despite numerous faults with this government.
General Asif Nawaz had difficulty with NS, he did not chose to overthrow; General Kakar asked both the prime minister and the president to resign instead of appointing himself as CE or CEO; General Karamat had problems with NS, yet he chose to resign instead of exacting revenge from NS. Enter the era of this general of Syed variety. He started plnning to overthrow almost as soon as he was appointed COAS. He started moving away all those generals from Islamabad, Karach and Lahore--who were known to oppose military takeover.
It was none of his business to interfere in the civilian matters. He has no right to be mad at the removal of his buddy general Moin from the governorship of Sindh. It was the right of prime minister when to order Kargill war and when to pull the plug, depending on the situation. The honorable way to oppose any decision of the higher authority is to resign. This is what happens everyday and everywhere. Only in some cases, a disgruntled former emloyee comes back loaded with ammunition and starts taking revenge from his bosses. This is exactly what happened in Pakistan on October 12, 1999.
It is not the matter of NS or elections, it is a matter of process through constitution. The constitution is the most sacred law of the land approved by all the good, the bad and the ugly elected representatives. This applies equallty to the leaders and employees of the state, including COAS.
In the absence of a due process, any Jihadi, Tablighi or Mullah with the help of some dedicated general has the same right to storm the prime minister house or presidency as Musharraf had. Why should one support law of the Jungle instead of laws of the civil society?
I am hoping for a saner decision tomorrow, though with my fingers crossed. I pray that history does not repeat itself and another prime minister has to face judicial murder on trumped up charges.
#18 Posted by Umairr on April 5, 2000 6:31:48 pm
Good Move.
``Pakistan to get $700m for allowing Iranian gas to India
ISLAMABAD (Internews)-Pakistan is allowing Iran to ship gas to India through its territory, officials of the Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources confirmed here Tuesday.
The gas pipeline has been under discussion for several years and industry officials say Chief Executive General Pervez Musharraf`s decision to let it run through Pakistan paves the way for the project to get underway.
The official said that the Iranian gas would be shipped to India via an overland pipeline passing through Pakistani territory.
``Pakistan will receive payment in respect of fees and charges levied for that purpose by the ministry, which will run up to $700 million,`` the official said.``
Pakistan and India need to get involved econonmically with each. It will help reduce tensions.
``Pakistan to get $700m for allowing Iranian gas to India
ISLAMABAD (Internews)-Pakistan is allowing Iran to ship gas to India through its territory, officials of the Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources confirmed here Tuesday.
The gas pipeline has been under discussion for several years and industry officials say Chief Executive General Pervez Musharraf`s decision to let it run through Pakistan paves the way for the project to get underway.
The official said that the Iranian gas would be shipped to India via an overland pipeline passing through Pakistani territory.
``Pakistan will receive payment in respect of fees and charges levied for that purpose by the ministry, which will run up to $700 million,`` the official said.``
Pakistan and India need to get involved econonmically with each. It will help reduce tensions.
#17 Posted by SR on April 5, 2000 4:11:32 pm
In the same issue of DAWN (as The Fourth Junta article by Ayaz) there was another editorial which is, IMHO, even more to the point. I append it here for those readers who may not have read it.
...SR
Cost analysis of our Kashmir policy
Irfan Husain
IN his unusually blunt address to the Pakistani nation during his brief stopover last week, president Clinton warned us of the dangers of ``increasing isolation`` if we continued with our present policies.
Although he was stating the obvious, I have little doubt that his warning will fall on deaf ears: as it is, we stand isolated to an extent that would have been unimaginable even a few months ago. The
fact that it took much diplomatic effort to persuade the US president to spend a few hours on Pakistani soil is a measure of our isolation. The Turkish prime minister has refused to include
Pakistan in his Indian visit this week because he is `too busy`. Considering our strong links with Turkey, and General Musharraf`s personal a dmiration for Kemal Attaturk, this is an unprecedented snub. We have been suspended from the Commonwealth, and are kept at arm`s length by most democracies.
So what? ask the many hawks in our establishment and the media. So plenty. These snubs add up to a loss in trade, economic ties and technical cooperation. During Clinton`s visit to India, deals worth four billion dollars were announced; during his five-hour visit to Pakistan, bilateral trade was not even mentioned. Military assistance is a distant memory.
But our isolation is not just diplomatic: most of the major airlines no longer stop in Karachi, KLM was the latest one to announce that it was shutting down its operations here. Most of them pulled out long ago, citing high fuel cost and exorbitant Civil Aviation Authority charges. Unofficially, their functionaries have complained of the existence of many government agencies operating at Karachi airport, all of them demanding some kind of gratification whether in the form of upgrades or bottles of booze.
In the old days, these airline operations resulted in considerable revenues for businessmen as hundreds of crew members broke their journeys in Karachi and were accommodated in local hotels and spent money shopping for presents. But one unstated reason why airlines no longer let their crew stop in Karachi for any length of time is
that their safety cannot be ensured.
The instability in the region is another reason why Pakistan is an undesirable tourist destination. Until the seventies, buses full of
tourists would stop in Lahore on their way from Europe to India, and bachelor friends would descend on Falleti`s Hotel to check out the talent. But after the Iranian revolution and the Afghan war, this stream of tourists has dried up completely.
Of course, Pakistan`s image abroad has not exactly helped in attracting visitors: after Zia took over in 1977, photographs of public floggings and hangings have made front pages across the world. Ethnic and sectarian terrorism has prompted foreign ministries to advise their citizens not to travel to Pakistan. Upmarket glossy magazines in the West contain dozens of advertisements for holidays in India, Nepal and Sri Lanka without a
single one for similar package tours to Pakistan. The repeated violence initiated in Chitral and neighbouring areas in the North by fundamentalist groups demanding the imposition of Sharia law
over the last few years has frightened away those hardy foreign trekkers who travelled to such remote valleys.
I have no doubt the ``so what?`` brigade will immediately declare that our national interests outweigh such mundane considerations. But this insular approach loses sight of the fact that in today`s interconnected world, no country can afford to stand in splendid isolation. North Korea and Myanmar (earlier known as Burma) are two countries that have basically said: ``to hell with the rest of the world; we will go our own way``. Both are basket cases where the citizens are suffering for their leaders` egomania and insularity. Do we really want to travel down that path?
But isolation is ultimately a state of mind, and individuals can cut off contact with society. Thus, hermits and sufis have sought solitude to commune with God. But while individuals can afford this luxury, nations can`t. Trade, finance and technology drive development and economic well-being. In today`s wired world, countries either compete and cooperate, or get left behind. There are no prizes for sulking or for being forced to sit in the corner with a dunce cap on the head.
If a set of policies gain no results and instead cause a nation to be sent to Coventry by the rest of the world, clearly those policies need to be re-examined. And if they aren`t, then the policy-makers need psychiatric help. In our case, our stand on Kashmir has led inexorably to unending confrontation with India, the militarization of Pakistan together with its political fallout, and to the acquisition of nuclear weapons with its international ramifications. Along the way, a slew of fanatical militias have been encouraged to dictate the nation`s agenda.
And what result has our Kashmir policy produced apart from thousands of casualties in India, Pakistan and Kashmir itself? For a moment, forget about the rights and wrongs of the whole issue,
and how much India is to blame for the problem. If we do a cost-benefit analysis of our 50-year old Kashmir policy, we will find that it has been a disaster for the people of Pakistan with the
breakeven point nowhere in sight. Here again, the ``so what?`` school of thought will say this does not matter as long as we continue to stand on ``principles.`` Perhaps, but it is a lonely place to be when the rest of the world is telling us to grow up, get real and get on with life.
One point that is consistently overlooked in discussions about our place in the world is that a progressive, modern and forward-looking Pakistan is much better placed to persuade the international community than a mediaeval country full of zealots that is seen as supporting terrorism. In the battle for public opinion, image is all; the contents of an argument are secondary.
Despite having a weaker legal case on Kashmir, India is seen as the aggrieved party, and Pakistan as the instigator of the violence in the Valley. This may seem unfair, but that`s life in the real
world.
If we are to break out of the largely self-imposed isolation we find ourselves in today, we need to have a hard, objective look at our failed policies that we insist on following. But I doubt if our
leadership - whether civilian or military - has the imagination and courage to act on the results of such a review.
...SR
Cost analysis of our Kashmir policy
Irfan Husain
IN his unusually blunt address to the Pakistani nation during his brief stopover last week, president Clinton warned us of the dangers of ``increasing isolation`` if we continued with our present policies.
Although he was stating the obvious, I have little doubt that his warning will fall on deaf ears: as it is, we stand isolated to an extent that would have been unimaginable even a few months ago. The
fact that it took much diplomatic effort to persuade the US president to spend a few hours on Pakistani soil is a measure of our isolation. The Turkish prime minister has refused to include
Pakistan in his Indian visit this week because he is `too busy`. Considering our strong links with Turkey, and General Musharraf`s personal a dmiration for Kemal Attaturk, this is an unprecedented snub. We have been suspended from the Commonwealth, and are kept at arm`s length by most democracies.
So what? ask the many hawks in our establishment and the media. So plenty. These snubs add up to a loss in trade, economic ties and technical cooperation. During Clinton`s visit to India, deals worth four billion dollars were announced; during his five-hour visit to Pakistan, bilateral trade was not even mentioned. Military assistance is a distant memory.
But our isolation is not just diplomatic: most of the major airlines no longer stop in Karachi, KLM was the latest one to announce that it was shutting down its operations here. Most of them pulled out long ago, citing high fuel cost and exorbitant Civil Aviation Authority charges. Unofficially, their functionaries have complained of the existence of many government agencies operating at Karachi airport, all of them demanding some kind of gratification whether in the form of upgrades or bottles of booze.
In the old days, these airline operations resulted in considerable revenues for businessmen as hundreds of crew members broke their journeys in Karachi and were accommodated in local hotels and spent money shopping for presents. But one unstated reason why airlines no longer let their crew stop in Karachi for any length of time is
that their safety cannot be ensured.
The instability in the region is another reason why Pakistan is an undesirable tourist destination. Until the seventies, buses full of
tourists would stop in Lahore on their way from Europe to India, and bachelor friends would descend on Falleti`s Hotel to check out the talent. But after the Iranian revolution and the Afghan war, this stream of tourists has dried up completely.
Of course, Pakistan`s image abroad has not exactly helped in attracting visitors: after Zia took over in 1977, photographs of public floggings and hangings have made front pages across the world. Ethnic and sectarian terrorism has prompted foreign ministries to advise their citizens not to travel to Pakistan. Upmarket glossy magazines in the West contain dozens of advertisements for holidays in India, Nepal and Sri Lanka without a
single one for similar package tours to Pakistan. The repeated violence initiated in Chitral and neighbouring areas in the North by fundamentalist groups demanding the imposition of Sharia law
over the last few years has frightened away those hardy foreign trekkers who travelled to such remote valleys.
I have no doubt the ``so what?`` brigade will immediately declare that our national interests outweigh such mundane considerations. But this insular approach loses sight of the fact that in today`s interconnected world, no country can afford to stand in splendid isolation. North Korea and Myanmar (earlier known as Burma) are two countries that have basically said: ``to hell with the rest of the world; we will go our own way``. Both are basket cases where the citizens are suffering for their leaders` egomania and insularity. Do we really want to travel down that path?
But isolation is ultimately a state of mind, and individuals can cut off contact with society. Thus, hermits and sufis have sought solitude to commune with God. But while individuals can afford this luxury, nations can`t. Trade, finance and technology drive development and economic well-being. In today`s wired world, countries either compete and cooperate, or get left behind. There are no prizes for sulking or for being forced to sit in the corner with a dunce cap on the head.
If a set of policies gain no results and instead cause a nation to be sent to Coventry by the rest of the world, clearly those policies need to be re-examined. And if they aren`t, then the policy-makers need psychiatric help. In our case, our stand on Kashmir has led inexorably to unending confrontation with India, the militarization of Pakistan together with its political fallout, and to the acquisition of nuclear weapons with its international ramifications. Along the way, a slew of fanatical militias have been encouraged to dictate the nation`s agenda.
And what result has our Kashmir policy produced apart from thousands of casualties in India, Pakistan and Kashmir itself? For a moment, forget about the rights and wrongs of the whole issue,
and how much India is to blame for the problem. If we do a cost-benefit analysis of our 50-year old Kashmir policy, we will find that it has been a disaster for the people of Pakistan with the
breakeven point nowhere in sight. Here again, the ``so what?`` school of thought will say this does not matter as long as we continue to stand on ``principles.`` Perhaps, but it is a lonely place to be when the rest of the world is telling us to grow up, get real and get on with life.
One point that is consistently overlooked in discussions about our place in the world is that a progressive, modern and forward-looking Pakistan is much better placed to persuade the international community than a mediaeval country full of zealots that is seen as supporting terrorism. In the battle for public opinion, image is all; the contents of an argument are secondary.
Despite having a weaker legal case on Kashmir, India is seen as the aggrieved party, and Pakistan as the instigator of the violence in the Valley. This may seem unfair, but that`s life in the real
world.
If we are to break out of the largely self-imposed isolation we find ourselves in today, we need to have a hard, objective look at our failed policies that we insist on following. But I doubt if our
leadership - whether civilian or military - has the imagination and courage to act on the results of such a review.
#16 Posted by temporal on April 5, 2000 12:57:55 pm
Umairr:
Economy should be the first, second and umpteenth priority.
The single minded pursuit of prosperity will inevitably bring in its wake all other desired changes. There is much to learn from China and to a lesser extent from South Korea.
rgds
t
PS: Check out this column.
http://www.thestar.com/thestar/editorial/opinion/20000405NEW02_OP-HAROON.html
Economy should be the first, second and umpteenth priority.
The single minded pursuit of prosperity will inevitably bring in its wake all other desired changes. There is much to learn from China and to a lesser extent from South Korea.
rgds
t
PS: Check out this column.
http://www.thestar.com/thestar/editorial/opinion/20000405NEW02_OP-HAROON.html
#15 Posted by fairdinkum on April 5, 2000 10:22:07 am
Re: Iris #6 & Vicky #4
Iris,
Ayaz Amir in his earlier (post Oct 12) articles was supportive of Mr. Musharraf and his plans to bring sweeping structural changes in our political system. However, as the situation unfolded, he realized that a long-term military rule is going to do more harm than a perverse democracy. Drastic structural changes in our political system are indeed warranted, but can Pakistan afford to keep the military regime for another five years? Do we have the economic depth/strength to face & withstand international isolation, which now seems imminent unless Musharraf announces a schedule to restore democracy? LB election plan may be flaw less, but if our trade and investment, and more importantly our handouts dry up, those plans will not be worth the piece of paper they are written on. I think Musharraf knows it too. He got a very clear message from leaders of all SE Asian countries to announce a schedule to restore democracy. He is now frustrated and bitter and he is talking about severing ties with US without realizing what it really means. This is what Ayaz Amir is saying…. Generals are not cut out for politics and diplomacy. They are not used to such harsh treatment as was accorded to him by Mr. Clinton, and leaders of SE Asian countries. Isolation may bring some comfort for his ego, but is it good for Pakistan?
Vicky,
I am not aware of China’s refusal to entertain Musharraf. However, if this is true then it is indeed quite disturbing, as China has been our friend through thick and thin. Could you please shed some light on the source of your information?
Iris,
Ayaz Amir in his earlier (post Oct 12) articles was supportive of Mr. Musharraf and his plans to bring sweeping structural changes in our political system. However, as the situation unfolded, he realized that a long-term military rule is going to do more harm than a perverse democracy. Drastic structural changes in our political system are indeed warranted, but can Pakistan afford to keep the military regime for another five years? Do we have the economic depth/strength to face & withstand international isolation, which now seems imminent unless Musharraf announces a schedule to restore democracy? LB election plan may be flaw less, but if our trade and investment, and more importantly our handouts dry up, those plans will not be worth the piece of paper they are written on. I think Musharraf knows it too. He got a very clear message from leaders of all SE Asian countries to announce a schedule to restore democracy. He is now frustrated and bitter and he is talking about severing ties with US without realizing what it really means. This is what Ayaz Amir is saying…. Generals are not cut out for politics and diplomacy. They are not used to such harsh treatment as was accorded to him by Mr. Clinton, and leaders of SE Asian countries. Isolation may bring some comfort for his ego, but is it good for Pakistan?
Vicky,
I am not aware of China’s refusal to entertain Musharraf. However, if this is true then it is indeed quite disturbing, as China has been our friend through thick and thin. Could you please shed some light on the source of your information?
#14 Posted by FA on April 5, 2000 10:22:07 am
VICKI #4: Yes, Gen.PM made his trip to China early in Jan, where the most widely read english language newspaper in China (China Daily, I believe) had a bolded headline reading `` Friends no matter what``.
I`ve failed to understand this psyche that only people in Pakistan have, this `foreign trips` envy. As the head of state, making internal changes that have the potential of being misinterpreted the world over, it only makes sense to be clarifying Pakistan`s position and future plans to your fellow commity of nations. So the worldview of Pakistan is not as some hostile neighbour of India`s (since India has been good in its propaganda) but as a country with genuine concerns that need to be addressed and a lot of untapped potential.
Apart from India`s propaganda, Pakistani leaders in the past have not been good about projecting the country well internationally, which is why some of the trips may have been turned down to begin with. When your leaders go to foreign countries to buy personal property and furnish personal estates rather than strengthen trade and economic ties for the country....it is understandable that Pakistan`s international image was sagging.
I`ve failed to understand this psyche that only people in Pakistan have, this `foreign trips` envy. As the head of state, making internal changes that have the potential of being misinterpreted the world over, it only makes sense to be clarifying Pakistan`s position and future plans to your fellow commity of nations. So the worldview of Pakistan is not as some hostile neighbour of India`s (since India has been good in its propaganda) but as a country with genuine concerns that need to be addressed and a lot of untapped potential.
Apart from India`s propaganda, Pakistani leaders in the past have not been good about projecting the country well internationally, which is why some of the trips may have been turned down to begin with. When your leaders go to foreign countries to buy personal property and furnish personal estates rather than strengthen trade and economic ties for the country....it is understandable that Pakistan`s international image was sagging.
#13 Posted by Umairr on April 5, 2000 1:23:50 am
Hallelujah!!!!
Wattoo awarded 4 years RI, Rs. 4m fine
(Updated at 1945 PST)
LAHORE: The Accountability Court on Tuesday awarded former chief minister Mian Manzoor Wattoo four years rigorous imprisonment and a fine of Rs 4 million in 110 plots allotment case and twenty months R.I and a fine of Rs 1 million in the petrol pump case.
The court headed by Sheikh Muhammad Rafiq Goreja also awarded Mrs Seema Naeem, the co-accused in petrol pump case, rigorous imprisonment of ten months and a fine of Rs 1 million.
These are the first two major judgements in which punishments have been awarded to a political leader. (NEWS, Pakistan)
I think even Ayaz Amir would be happy about this decision. This is what he wrote in an earlier article, on 19 Nov, 99:
``Cynicism takes a thrashing
By Ayaz Amir
I have drunk deep of joy and shall taste no other wine tonight. -Shelley
I can scarcely believe it. The clouds have lifted and sunny uplands beckon from afar. And although only the gods can tell whether enough will happen to prolong this mood, while it lasts it is exhilarating.
Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive,
But to be young was very heaven.
As I scan in the papers the mug shot of the Reverend Nawaz Khokhar - formerly a PML(N) grandee, now lately of the PPP (what exalted company our political parties keep) - being led away by an army posse, and as I read the names of the sleek cats caught in the first flush of the army`s crackdown on those of the good and the great who have brought the country to its present sorry pass, and indeed down to its very knees, my heart, withered and woebegone till yesterday, cracks with joy even if I do not have Shelley`s excuse (methinks a pair of comely arms) for being intoxicated.....
But to return to the main story. The accountability ordinance just signed by the Sharif`s own President (how times change) His Holiness the Pakistani Pope is the law that these past 25 years the people of Pakistan have been crying out for. Comprehensive in its sweep, unambiguous in its meaning, it is the perfect instrument - one, moreover, which puts the onus of proving innocence on the shoulders of the accused - for pursuing the battle against corruption and wrongdoing. Those responsible for drafting this law deserve the nation`s thanks. If Mr Sharifuddin Pirzada has had anything to do with it then all is forgiven. Although I doubt very much this would have been the case since Mr Pirzada has made a career out of equivocation while this law is a model of clarity.
For all the wrong selections made by the Great Chief in the early stages of excitement, a forgivable lapse considering all the things crowding in on his mind (although that still does not stop me from wondering how Akbar Ahmed has made it to London and the Boy Sarfraz, you have to see him to believe me, into the cabinet), the Chief has redeemed himself by picking Lt Gen Amjad Hussain as the Chairman of the National Accountability Bureau (NAB)......
Being a year senior to me in college I say this from personal knowledge that a cleaner and more suitable man for this sensitive position could not have been chosen. If anyone can make NAB work it is Gen Amjad and if he falters or fails, or even if the pace of his offensive slackens, General Musharraf can say goodbye to the public goodwill that still remains strong for his coup - sorry, counter-coup - and all its works. There should be no mistake about this: as far as the public perception is concerned, more rests on accountability than any of the other items in the Chief`s agenda.
That is why it is important not to be distracted by cries that the drive just started to nab defaulting and crooked fat cats will ruin business confidence and trigger a flight of capital out of the country. No heed should be paid to these feeble-minded reservations for what is at stake is not the confidence of the business community but the last remaining shreds and tatters of the nation`s faith in itself and its ability to pull itself out of the swamp in which it is caught. Nothing has done so much to revive the nation`s hopes as the arrest of big-name defaulters. Nothing will more cruelly shatter these hopes than if this drive fails or comes to a premature end.`` (DAWN, Pakistan)
Then again, Ayaz Amir wrote the following on 1 Oct, 99:
``No coup, no nothing
By Ayaz Amir
ACTUALLY, our American friends need never have bothered at all. No one in the army was planning a coup. Having had its fill of knocks this year, the army command was in no mood to add to its troubles. There was accordingly no reason for the US administration to issue the statements it did admonishing the army against any extra-constitutional steps. That these statements were insulting to Pakistan is beside the point. They were plain gratuitous and quite uncalled for in the circumstances......
But this is empty speculation. The main thing is that 111 Brigade was not about to move out of its barracks and head in the general direction of Islamabad. A coup was not being planned. The army as an institution was not thinking of a takeover. But the heroes of the mandate, slaves to their instincts and ever averse to letting sleeping dogs lie, were itching to manufacture another crisis. They wanted to make the army command carry the can for this summer`s adventures and for this purpose were obsessed by the thought of doing another Jahangir Karamat, this time on his successor.
Jahangir Karamat`s successor, as even his fervid admirers will perhaps acknowledge, is no Clausewitz. But neither is he a Baji and so when the hustlers of this government, their style not much different from that of the lower ranks of the New York mafia, let out subtle hints that it was time for another move-over in Rawalpindi, the incumbent dug in his heels and refused to budge, much less to be browbeaten.``
We all know what happened on 12 Oct, 99. So one cannot be quite sure how in touch Ayaz Amir is with what is going on in Pakistan.
Wattoo awarded 4 years RI, Rs. 4m fine
(Updated at 1945 PST)
LAHORE: The Accountability Court on Tuesday awarded former chief minister Mian Manzoor Wattoo four years rigorous imprisonment and a fine of Rs 4 million in 110 plots allotment case and twenty months R.I and a fine of Rs 1 million in the petrol pump case.
The court headed by Sheikh Muhammad Rafiq Goreja also awarded Mrs Seema Naeem, the co-accused in petrol pump case, rigorous imprisonment of ten months and a fine of Rs 1 million.
These are the first two major judgements in which punishments have been awarded to a political leader. (NEWS, Pakistan)
I think even Ayaz Amir would be happy about this decision. This is what he wrote in an earlier article, on 19 Nov, 99:
``Cynicism takes a thrashing
By Ayaz Amir
I have drunk deep of joy and shall taste no other wine tonight. -Shelley
I can scarcely believe it. The clouds have lifted and sunny uplands beckon from afar. And although only the gods can tell whether enough will happen to prolong this mood, while it lasts it is exhilarating.
Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive,
But to be young was very heaven.
As I scan in the papers the mug shot of the Reverend Nawaz Khokhar - formerly a PML(N) grandee, now lately of the PPP (what exalted company our political parties keep) - being led away by an army posse, and as I read the names of the sleek cats caught in the first flush of the army`s crackdown on those of the good and the great who have brought the country to its present sorry pass, and indeed down to its very knees, my heart, withered and woebegone till yesterday, cracks with joy even if I do not have Shelley`s excuse (methinks a pair of comely arms) for being intoxicated.....
But to return to the main story. The accountability ordinance just signed by the Sharif`s own President (how times change) His Holiness the Pakistani Pope is the law that these past 25 years the people of Pakistan have been crying out for. Comprehensive in its sweep, unambiguous in its meaning, it is the perfect instrument - one, moreover, which puts the onus of proving innocence on the shoulders of the accused - for pursuing the battle against corruption and wrongdoing. Those responsible for drafting this law deserve the nation`s thanks. If Mr Sharifuddin Pirzada has had anything to do with it then all is forgiven. Although I doubt very much this would have been the case since Mr Pirzada has made a career out of equivocation while this law is a model of clarity.
For all the wrong selections made by the Great Chief in the early stages of excitement, a forgivable lapse considering all the things crowding in on his mind (although that still does not stop me from wondering how Akbar Ahmed has made it to London and the Boy Sarfraz, you have to see him to believe me, into the cabinet), the Chief has redeemed himself by picking Lt Gen Amjad Hussain as the Chairman of the National Accountability Bureau (NAB)......
Being a year senior to me in college I say this from personal knowledge that a cleaner and more suitable man for this sensitive position could not have been chosen. If anyone can make NAB work it is Gen Amjad and if he falters or fails, or even if the pace of his offensive slackens, General Musharraf can say goodbye to the public goodwill that still remains strong for his coup - sorry, counter-coup - and all its works. There should be no mistake about this: as far as the public perception is concerned, more rests on accountability than any of the other items in the Chief`s agenda.
That is why it is important not to be distracted by cries that the drive just started to nab defaulting and crooked fat cats will ruin business confidence and trigger a flight of capital out of the country. No heed should be paid to these feeble-minded reservations for what is at stake is not the confidence of the business community but the last remaining shreds and tatters of the nation`s faith in itself and its ability to pull itself out of the swamp in which it is caught. Nothing has done so much to revive the nation`s hopes as the arrest of big-name defaulters. Nothing will more cruelly shatter these hopes than if this drive fails or comes to a premature end.`` (DAWN, Pakistan)
Then again, Ayaz Amir wrote the following on 1 Oct, 99:
``No coup, no nothing
By Ayaz Amir
ACTUALLY, our American friends need never have bothered at all. No one in the army was planning a coup. Having had its fill of knocks this year, the army command was in no mood to add to its troubles. There was accordingly no reason for the US administration to issue the statements it did admonishing the army against any extra-constitutional steps. That these statements were insulting to Pakistan is beside the point. They were plain gratuitous and quite uncalled for in the circumstances......
But this is empty speculation. The main thing is that 111 Brigade was not about to move out of its barracks and head in the general direction of Islamabad. A coup was not being planned. The army as an institution was not thinking of a takeover. But the heroes of the mandate, slaves to their instincts and ever averse to letting sleeping dogs lie, were itching to manufacture another crisis. They wanted to make the army command carry the can for this summer`s adventures and for this purpose were obsessed by the thought of doing another Jahangir Karamat, this time on his successor.
Jahangir Karamat`s successor, as even his fervid admirers will perhaps acknowledge, is no Clausewitz. But neither is he a Baji and so when the hustlers of this government, their style not much different from that of the lower ranks of the New York mafia, let out subtle hints that it was time for another move-over in Rawalpindi, the incumbent dug in his heels and refused to budge, much less to be browbeaten.``
We all know what happened on 12 Oct, 99. So one cannot be quite sure how in touch Ayaz Amir is with what is going on in Pakistan.
#12 Posted by Moez on April 5, 2000 12:27:33 am
Umair Re#9, I agree with you on that...
I religiously read Ayaz Aamir`s articles (and what a great read they`re sometimes) but I will be dubious about his plea, return of democracy. If he means the good ol democracy of BB & NS then no thanks. The democracy has so far fail to provide the common man the lift that he badly needed. In order to be succeeded, the masses need to be literate to understand their rights, their responsibilities.
In a society, such as ours it is far remove from reality, voters can be bought at whims and sometimes succumbed to pressure (in rural areas) without knowing the might of their votes. For e.g. in BB`s hometown (or any feudal`s hometown) she will throw some favors to the people as a privilege and they in turn will thanks her, knowing she is doing a great favor to them, this is may be the result of the colonial subjugation. Nothing has changed for them, so by concocting elections with feudal and powerful elite in backdrop nothing can be accomplished.
Bottom line is, we want to alleviate the suffering of common man and if it is cannot achieve by the so called election then we need to devise new alternatives (doesn`t mean authoritarian regime) or amend existing one to give the people the powers over their lives. May be Musaraff & Co become a part of Pakistan political setup. I know the Task may not be easy but handing over power to these mafias will not cure the problems.
I had also been really close to this so called election. I was involve in a campaign for one of our candidate for Local bodies (Baldeyiate Intekhaab) , and my experience is not encouraging! As a matter of fact, I strongly believed that our political parties are run by extremely corrupt people, who have no regards for life or human sufferings, in fact they are run by Goondas and mafias. Their only concern is to loot more money they can before the `other` party get their hold.
In the presence of such corrupt people which Shareef Admee would like to jeopardize his name and life. He will be far more opted to move to UK, US or Canada rather than fight a winless battle.
Pakistan become a basket case (if I be bold), our priorities are misplaced. On one hand we are aggressively and sometime foolishly pursuing Kashmir policy at the expense of Pakistan`s prosperity (may be its a way to divert the attention of common man daily problems) on the other hand we`re not taking care of our own minorities. That`s why the world is not listening, our own trek record is not clean. Our whole energies are diverted to one and one cause only, we need to define what is important NOW Kashmir or Pakistan`s future. Yes, we can`t sideline Kashmir issue but we need to gain the respect that we`ve lost in world`s eyes before we demand the just settlement. The recent visit by Clinton awaken us to the cold realities.
Pakistan need to give Pakistan first priority, then later we can talk about the Umma & other fantasies. It is not too late yet, there is still some hope left.
I hope, Amen
Moez Momin.
I religiously read Ayaz Aamir`s articles (and what a great read they`re sometimes) but I will be dubious about his plea, return of democracy. If he means the good ol democracy of BB & NS then no thanks. The democracy has so far fail to provide the common man the lift that he badly needed. In order to be succeeded, the masses need to be literate to understand their rights, their responsibilities.
In a society, such as ours it is far remove from reality, voters can be bought at whims and sometimes succumbed to pressure (in rural areas) without knowing the might of their votes. For e.g. in BB`s hometown (or any feudal`s hometown) she will throw some favors to the people as a privilege and they in turn will thanks her, knowing she is doing a great favor to them, this is may be the result of the colonial subjugation. Nothing has changed for them, so by concocting elections with feudal and powerful elite in backdrop nothing can be accomplished.
Bottom line is, we want to alleviate the suffering of common man and if it is cannot achieve by the so called election then we need to devise new alternatives (doesn`t mean authoritarian regime) or amend existing one to give the people the powers over their lives. May be Musaraff & Co become a part of Pakistan political setup. I know the Task may not be easy but handing over power to these mafias will not cure the problems.
I had also been really close to this so called election. I was involve in a campaign for one of our candidate for Local bodies (Baldeyiate Intekhaab) , and my experience is not encouraging! As a matter of fact, I strongly believed that our political parties are run by extremely corrupt people, who have no regards for life or human sufferings, in fact they are run by Goondas and mafias. Their only concern is to loot more money they can before the `other` party get their hold.
In the presence of such corrupt people which Shareef Admee would like to jeopardize his name and life. He will be far more opted to move to UK, US or Canada rather than fight a winless battle.
Pakistan become a basket case (if I be bold), our priorities are misplaced. On one hand we are aggressively and sometime foolishly pursuing Kashmir policy at the expense of Pakistan`s prosperity (may be its a way to divert the attention of common man daily problems) on the other hand we`re not taking care of our own minorities. That`s why the world is not listening, our own trek record is not clean. Our whole energies are diverted to one and one cause only, we need to define what is important NOW Kashmir or Pakistan`s future. Yes, we can`t sideline Kashmir issue but we need to gain the respect that we`ve lost in world`s eyes before we demand the just settlement. The recent visit by Clinton awaken us to the cold realities.
Pakistan need to give Pakistan first priority, then later we can talk about the Umma & other fantasies. It is not too late yet, there is still some hope left.
I hope, Amen
Moez Momin.
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