What are they Teaching in Pakistani Schools Today?

Why you are mohajir!

It is purely a religious thing.

As far as semi educated Pakistanis.

It is very obvious from Indian response that bias is called education in India.

Desis in Silicon Valley

FORTUNE magazine has published a series of articles on success of Desis in Silicon Valley. Worth reading.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/2000/05/15/ind2.html

India is, and always has been, regarded as the `traditional enemy` to the extent that the few Pakistanis who are educated under the official curriculum have, by the time they have completed Class V, been brainwashed as to the `evil designs` harboured by India against Pakistan and they have been tutored as to the `differences between Muslims and Hindus` (Hindus only - Hottentots, atheists, Christians and even Jews are of no relevance).

What they will not be taught unless there is an elimination of the official curriculum enforced for decades on the lamentably tutored semi-educated, encouraged to pass exams by fraudulent means as they otherwise would fail, is the true standing of the `traditional enemy` in the world of the 21st century.

Next time you give an UNBIASED history.

Please name your next missile on person who killed most militants in Kashmir.

That will be an anti Ghauri.

Everyone knows that Shahbuddin Ghauri was an invader of India. He killed millions of people( Both Hindus and Muslims), plundered

India, destroyed temples and mosques. Yet when India named it surface to earth missile `Prithvi` (Prithvi means `Earth` in Hindi) , Pakistani politician tried to name their missile `Ghauri` in

honor of the Muslim invader who defeated the noble Hindu king Prithviraj Chauhan. We have lost sight of the fact that not all of the `great Muslim heroes` were actually so. Tomorrow we would

see barbarous Chengez Khan turned into a Muslim super hero.

Most of the Muslim rulers we consider ``heroes`` behaved abominably by ordering the slaughter of an embassy numbering some three hundred

- most of them Muslims and also Hindus.

This is not only outright ignorance, but an ignorance born out of fifty years of misconstrued history. Successive governments and bureaucrats with vested interests unaware of the fact that history has no religion, but that all religions have a history have attempted to convert the history of the Indian subcontinent to Islam.

Consequently, for most Muslims in Pakistan (and perhaps even in India) any personage with an Arabic or Persian name is a supposed

Islamic hero. For most ignorant folks it does not matter how disreputable that person may have been -- only the name suffices.

The History taught in Pakistan is so distorted. All Indians and Hindus are treated as villians and Muslims heroes. Pakistan does not have any good role model, so it tries to create role

Models of any Muslim. What has this produced, an entire generation of ignorant Pakistanis who are unaware of real history, but have one thing in common ie. ``Indians and Hindus are our enemies``.

Yes Mohajir#

It can only happen in Pakistan.

It is amply reflected in attitudes of Pakistanis on this board.

Pakistani girl students face up to culture police

LAHORE, MAY 1: A quiet revolution is unfolding on a Lahore campus. The hold of Jamat-e-Islami, the fundamentalist Islamic group, has been challenged in Punjab University, Lahore.

The challenge has come from the women students, trying to unshackle themselves from the ``oppressive Talibanisation`` attempts of Jamat-e-Islami followers.

The fundamentalist control of the campus was total a few months ago, until the girls decided to fight back. In the vast new campus of Punjab University, for instance, the women students were not allowed to make phone calls from any of the 30-odd PCOs. ``It is the order of the Jamat-e-Islami,`` explains one of the PCO owners. ``If we allow girls to make calls, they have threatened to vandalise our shops,`` he adds. This is just one of the Jamat-e-Islami diktats that the girls are fighting.

The girls found their voice three months ago when a boy student was brutally beaten by the Jamat followers.``One of the girls had a problem with a Mathematics question and had sought help from one of her classmates, who happened to be of the opposite sex. The Jamat student leaders saw the boy talking to her and started beating him up. There were a few other girls also who witnessed it and protested. The explanation offered by the Jamat students was that the boy was misbehaving with the girl, which was not true,`` explains Sabiha, a first-year Psychology student.

That incident marked the beginning of the girls` movement against the Jamat-e-Islami enforcers. In a spontaneous outburst against the Jamat-e-Islami fundamentalists, the girls took out a procession, shouting anti-Jamat slogans. ``We discarded our fear that day,`` says Rukhsana, an MSc (Mathematics) student.

But the movement is still in its nascent stage. Majority of the girls still keep their heads covered and hair tied. ``There was a time when not even a single girl dared to keep her head uncovered or her hair loose. The Jamat students literally used to go around carrying scissors, threatening to cut the hair of any girl who hadn`t plaited it. But now you can see all that is changing,`` says Qudsia, another MSc student, pointing towards a group of girls sporting trendy hairstyles.

The girls are no more scared by the sight of Jamat-e-Islami student leaders, wearing the traditional salwar-Kurta and sporting beards. ``Till recently, the girls used to scurry inside classrooms, seeing the Jamat guys approaching,`` says Amara, who stands her ground when three Jamat-e-Islami students on a motorbike, come closer. They stop and ask the group of girls not to talk to the reporter from India.

``All journalists need permission from our leader Hamid,`` one of them growls. ``Nobody needs permission from you people,`` says a girl bravely. ``Please, go,`` she tells them. Surprised by the girl`s unexpected ferocity, the Jamat youth retreat but hang around at a distance.

``The power of Jamat-e-Islami is slowly but surely eroding in the University. Our vice Chancellor Lt General Harshad Mahmood has come down heavily on them. But it will take some time before they are completely sidelined,`` says Sumaira.

The girls still feel inhibited to wear jeans on the campus. ``I wear them sometimes and so do a few others. But we are yet only a handful. Though I felt slightly uncomfortable initially, with people staring, it is okay now. Even the stares have become less frequent. This is the only way that people will get accustomed to the change. Somebody has to bell the cat,`` says Amara with a grin.

RSaxena #141: I find your use of the phrase ``Pakistani moderates`` quite interesting. I suppose it is a step forward compared to thinking in terms of ``Pakistani enemies``. Third step, I suppose, would be: ``Pakistani posters`` on Chowk. And fourth would be ``fellow posters`` on Chowk, with attacks/support limited to the posts themselves, not to the individuals. My point is: please dont label Pakistanis on Chowk as ``moderates`` or ``fanatics``. Just stick to the posts themselves, and assume the posters are all perfectly fine and reasonable folks (why assume otherwise?).

Pakistan & India - Global leaders in IT

Posted By John Thimothy on May 01, 2000 at 09:16:03 in Friday Times

It is an amazing coincidence that both Pakistan & India are making rapid strides in IT. But alas India is doing so in `Information Technology` & Pakistan is doing so in `Islamic Terrorism`.

http://www.state.gov/

http://www.msnbc.com/news/401934.asp

http://cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/south/04/30/us.southasia/index.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_731000/731473.stm

U.S.: Terrorists shift to South Asia



Terrorism report blasts Pakistan- ABC News

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/terroristreport000430.html

State Dept. says new locus is Afghanistan and Pakistan

NOT FROM PARVEZ,

The following is from Friday times and shows another aspect of the pak laws, what is treason in pakistan. If only the indian peace `makers` of the chowk had been told the truth.

Security as confrontation: Confrontation with India cost Pakistan its democracy. Pakistan`s ideology became India-centric. Its textbooks indoctrinated the nation in favour of a security paradigm of permanent confrontation. The Penal Code was amended to equate opposition to the anti-India ideology with treason.

TRUE NATURE

At last the true nature of the pakistanis on the chowk is out. How dare Parvez say that the pak education system is based on india hatred, how stupid he is to quote the pak books which in turn is reproduced in indian news papers. These are the secrets which the chowk pakistanis never let out. Even the `educated` and scholarly on the chowk have defended jihadists in the guise of alleged human rights. Now at last Parvez has let out the secrets, the very secrets that have moulded the thinking of the chowk pakistanis.

Now is the time to turn on to Parvez, shoot the messenger.

Ref FARANGI_KUSH #: 138

You ask {How come that most of the desi schools attendies in Pakistan always get enrolled in 0ne or two higher grade in the public schools in North America & Britain?.When the graduates of same universities apply their standard is reduced to a grade 10 or 11? Equal to those some of who cannot even read the english newspaper?}

I believe admission to most US colleges and universities are based on SAT scores. I know of several kids in India who write the SAT and get into freshman year at US colleges and universities. Perhaps, instead of claiming that secular schooling in Pakistan is bad and should be abandoned, one should look to improve its standards so that the kids have a good chance of entering Western universities at the appropriate level. Clearly, anyone doing A levels is not going to be downgraded when he applies to the US for college admission.

The point about desi kids doing high school who transfer to the US being admitted to a higher grade, it is primarily because their math and science skills are better than those attained by US kids at the same grade level. And their English also happens to be better. Perhaps this is an argument for science-based education in the English language.

There are some kids who are inherently brighter than the average and they do better in school, whether in the US or back home. The failures of the less-than-average should not be used to denigrate either US schools or science-based education in Pakistan.

Right now, there is a debate going on in Singapore about the role and quantity of religious instruction for Muslim students. Though the Singapore government is walking on eggshells because the issue is both religion and ethnic-oriented (the minority Malays being the Muslims), their fear is that this would keep the Muslims in a lower socio-economic class.

As for Umairr who quoted all the advanced first-world and third-world countries who teach in their native languages, Singapore forces all its students to learn English and one other language (Chinese, Malay, or Tamil). The English-stream students get the best jobs and opportunities and currently Singapore ranks in the top 10 nations of the world in terms of per capita income. So, education in one`s native language is not necessarily the tool that improves a nation`s wealth. It all depends on the individual`s efforts to better himself.

To the Pakistani moderates who light a fire under young ylh`s behind:

Great work.

What gall! Sitting there comfortably nestled in America and its freedoms spewing fundamentalist garbage in true armchair general fashion!

What kind of parents are rearing these things? What hope is there to turnaround the poor kids being dragged off to the madrassahs in Pakistan when the likes of this yoni latto harami (ylh) cannot be helped?

Re:ylh#133

You seem to be itching for a brawl with Indians and moderate Pakistanis. Hence you want to make provocative statements and call an intellectual like Najam Sethi a traitor. Kyon bhai, are you that bored that you have to zabardasti pick a fight ? Chalo, hamne maan liya that you are very worked up about Kashmir and you are right on every issue. Hope that makes you happy !!

I agree with the tone of Y1H.

If anybody has followed the thoughts of Dr. HoodBhoy, he has a defeatist attitude.

He has been one of the most vocal person against Nuclear Programme, not because Nuclear Programme is bad (that was a side issue only), but Pakistan cannot do and sustain Nuclear Programme because of lack of sustained education and infrastructure for Nuclear Education.

His attitude probably reflects , the reaction to ``Muslim Scientists`` during Zia era, who churned ``Islamic science`` to fill their pocket.

As autobiography, will always be autobiography, Dr. HoodBhoy`s analysis is mostly subjective and reflects his state of mind. I don`t see any goal in the article, which should have been put clearly regarding education. Most of the article is criticizing the current system. Is he the only one to criticize?. Even a matric grade student in his interview says this.

His remedy is kill this, kill this, kill this and TRUTH will surface by itself.

All our intellectuals, which I consider as DEGREED people have the same attitude as any illiterate person. ``Impose my will, because I am the only one who is right``

The primary premise is, we have to work in and with the society where we live in.

Neither can we transplant America on Pakistan. Neither will there be a mass exodus of Pakistanis to West to learn Western culture.

If the goals are set in clearly, then the issue of Maddressah vs A level is irrevelant. As one of Indian said regarding funding of Maddressah to propagate education in India. It can only be done by India, which has set a right priority in education.

In Pakistan, for our so called intellectuals, goal of education is do away with Maddressah, Take a pistol on all fundamentalist head to say ``La Ilah`` and all the problems of Pakistan will be solved. Because until and unless these fundamentalist are not got rid of we caanot succeed.

If that is the case, then China and Iran would never progress as a nation.

temporal(#130): Glad to see that both of us are roughly on the same wavelength on the matters of revolutionary movements in India during the earlier decades of twentieth century and thanks for introducing to me of some more graet freedom fighters of that era. There is no doubt that Ghadar Party lacked strong organization, and their call for total independence was premature but you must give them credit for laying out the ground work for later successes of Congress and ML. Similarly there is no way of measuring the popular support for them because it can easily be argued for not being unpopular either based on the average of 30,000-50,000 people, they were regularly attracting to their rallies. Moreover, martial law in Amritsar and the heavy handedness shown by the Raj leading to the Jullianwala Bagh massacre also attest to their popularity. The gaddarites also spawned a series of reevolutionary movement, namely Kirti Kisan, Nau Jawan Sabha and Babbar Akali Jatha ( afterall Bhagat Singh belonged to Nau Jawan Sabha, and the revolutionary activities of Kishan Singh and other members of Babbar Akali Jatha are legendary of mythical proportions. Do not confuse the Babbar Akali Jatha with some Sikh religious party. They were radical leftist Sikhs and the first party who openly rejected the Gandhiji’s philosophy of non-violence to achieve total independence). Another important factor to bear in mind is that, a party does not have to enjoy the support of the majority of 300 million or so Indians to kick out 140,000 Brits from India. This factor alone was sufficient for the defiant mood and methods of the revolutionaries of 1910-1930. Moreover, the victory is not allways judged by the success in the revolutionary sense. For them, believing in a noble cause and sincerely putting their best efforts was all that counted.

Most of these people, except BAJ, supported Gandhiji and Congress wholeheartedly in salt-making yarn-weaving and satyagraha (non-cooperation) movements but Gandhi and Congress were less than forthcoming when revolutionaries needed them. They were the people who stirred up the pot but it was another breed of politicians in the forties who succeeded in skimming the cream. Never ever being a leftist and having deep respect for all the leaders of the freedom movement, I think one must objectively analyze the role of revolutionaries in the freedom struggle in that time frame and circumstances, and appreciate it where appreciation is due.

We all tend to look at the freedom struggle from the Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and/ or Indian and Pakistani perspective while completely ignoring the British or Raj’s perspective. Naturally the first line of defense, from Raj’s perspective would be to hold on to power in India at all costs. They would lay out thorns on every step of the way for these anglophobe revolutionaries by severly repressing them and infiltrating their ranks to destroy them inside out. Additionally the Raj would deface them by labelling them continuously as terrorists and common petty criminals. The second line of defense would be to prop up least anglophobe alternate parties and leadership which can guarentee the safety of 140,000 Brits in addition to British friendly governments--if Raj was to withdraw from India. That is why both Congress and ML were not treated nearly as harshly as their predecessors.

The teaching of the history of freedom movements must not be limited to Congress and ML only because it is lot more than just TNT and negotiating around round, square or parallelogram tables.