What are they Teaching in Pakistani Schools Today?

arun #52:

Thanks. Interesting article.

Bilal, Sameer etc. please make an effort to read this article.

regards

t

SR #63:

Agreed.

The Chowk Interact Guidelines says so succinctly “Please refrain from frivolous statements that are inflammatory towards any race, nationality, ethinicity (sic) or religion.”


My problem is also at a personal level when the steaming hot ‘spaghetti’ interacts on Chowk are dampened by the sprinkling of hate/sleaze brand of parmesan cheese. Perhaps it is more the delivery rather than the message (however disagreeable and pathetic) that offends me.



rafay_alam #64

KK forgotten? Hardly.

He will be remembered for among other things, that biography of Chaudhry Rehmat Ali (one of the four authors of the ‘Now or Never’ pamphlet coining `Pakstan` -- an ungrateful beaurecrat deported him out of Pakistan when Rehmat Ali tried to return and settle down in 1948 --but that is another story) and his recent donation to Cambridge University for setting up two scholarships named after Ahmad Shah Patras Bukhari and Allama Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

regards,

temporal

In reply to Amit (#60) :

There are many independent curricula in force in India -- the various state curricula and then various nation-wide ones, e.g., NCERT. I am sure that the curricula have changed over time.

I went to the Central School (Kendriya Vidyalaya), NCERT curriculum in the 70s. With regard to that curriculum, I disagree with what Amit wrote. I learned that Hindus might have suffered under Muslim invasions only after coming to the US, and reading books here; and not from anything that I learned in school. There was no ``Muslim, Muslim-rule era history in negative light`` in that curriculum.

Things may have changed since.

-arun gupta

Many moons ago, one of Pakistan`s great (but forgotten) historians, K.K. Aziz, published ``The Murder of History``. He details the historical innacuracies set out in EVERY text-book issued to students from class 5 and up through Intermediate. His work(s) is/are chilling reminders of what the educational authorities are putting into the minds of young Pakistanis.

On a somewhat diferent note: What scares me about the content of education in Pakistan is its obvious Islamic tilt. The land called India was invaded by Mohammad-bin-Qasim, who sought to free women and children captured in a boat siezed by the evil Hinu Raja Dahir (this is from memory of what my Pak-Studies book taught me). Then skip a bit to the Delhi Sultanate etc.. Then skip to Babur, the founder of the Muslim Mogul empire. Skip all the other Moguls (especially Akbar) except Aurengzeb, who was pious and sewed his own hats. Then skip to the Battle of Plassy, where the cunning English with the help of the duplicitous Mir Jafar defeated a ``superior`` army (they didn`t cover thier gunpowder during a rainstorm) and established themselves in the sub-continent. Onwards then to 1857, or The War of Independance, if it can be called that. And on, and on, and on.

Point is, young Pakistani`s come out of this system with the wierd belief that Pakitsan = Islam and India = Hinduism (Rememeber ``Pakistan ka matlab kya, La Illa ha Ill Allah. Hindustan ka matlab kya, gutter mein phenko hum ko kya). Moreover, becuase our textbooks don`t deal with any of our historical or national tragedies (1946, 1947, 1971), students tend to think that Pakistan, and specifically the Pakistani army, is undefeatable (one Pakistani soldier is equal to ten Indian soldiers etc.).

What can you expect from people who really believe that they are god`s gift? I applaud Mr. Hoodbhoy`s article and his attempt to `eduacte` us on this problem of our educational system.

Rafay Alam

Temporal #54

[``...The moderates amidst Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Jains, Jews and others should stand up each time these bigots open their mouth. Failure to do so will result in the abandonment of the moderate’s silent majority to the fascistic tendencies of these born again fundos...``]

Agreed. However, it is important that we urge the Chowk Staff to continue to allow such people to come here and reveal their true colors by putting their foot in their mouths for all to see. Yes, at times, they will be a nuisance, not unlike the ubiquitous open sewages of the subcontinent’s cities, but their banishment isn`t the answer either.

Now, admittedly, I have no evidence to say that, for example, Farangi’ Kus has been `locked-out`. Its just that unless his system crashed, or his ISP froze his account, it is hard to believe that he would not attempt to come here and, in Mr. Gupta`s words, `deposit his dung`. A lot of what he writes is not worth the trouble of reading, but he does say a few good things from time to time. At one point I even had a feeling that he was just one of those people who become overdramatic on-line and go to absurd extremes only to get a kick out of it and piss-off others. If that is what he does then he is doing a good job of discrediting his stereotype.

As for Abu-j-hal, I don’t know. He’s still new here, let’s see what shape he gives his on-line persona.

Re: hamidm #57

It is always a pleasure to read your stinging comments, but this one was a real masterpiece. Without your permission, I have sent it to a few of my non-Chowk friends.

…SR

Re:bahmad#45

Bilal, I was wondering what are your views on the subject of history as it is taught in South Asian schools ? I believe that this is one subject that is completely distorted and mutiliated by each government to suit their respective ideologies in order to brainwash kids. It also lays the foundation for a lot of pathologies and complexes that people develop as they grow up.

In India, there is a subtle but distinct attempt to water down the muslim past of India in history books. While pre-Islamic civilizations are glorified, the Islamic past largely focuses on the negatives such as the invasions by Mohammad bin Qasim, Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Babar etc. The two rulers who are talked about are Sher Shah Suri and, of course, Akbar. Due to the presence of large numbers of Indian muslims, the protrayal is not all negative. However, the overall impression it does give is that India suffered under muslims. Hence it may provoke sentiments for extracting revenge. No one mentions the fact that India has faced invasions for the past 5000 years and muslims were no exception. Some of these invaders stayed, others went back. No one talks about the rich history of the Afghan rulers or the fact that Mughal history is truly fascinating.

I understand that in Pakistan it is completely opposite. In fact, history starts there with muslim invasions and everything else prior to that is considered unworthy of concern. I believe that one of the key things we should think about is to change these history texts to be more balanced. This may help in curbing the irrational hatred that the two countries and the two communities have against each other.

Umairr Reply #: 59

``Why the English language?

USA uses English, Canada uses English (I believe Quebec uses French), England uses English, France uses French, Spain uses Spanish, Japan uses Japanese, Germany uses German, Italy uses Italian, Holland uses Dutch; so on and so forth. So is there any first world country that teaches in a foreign language? Maybe, but I cannot think of one. They all emphasise learning a second language, but they do not use the second language to replace their primary langauge as a medium of instructions.``

Iceland with a population of 250,000 uses Icelandic at all levels for imparting education. Percentage of the educated people in that country is 100%.

Umair#59 and others.

I think, we have to seperate the basic education from higher education in a coordinated way.

The target: Universal education and good education at primary level.

It will be tackled depending upon our resources. Like even if Government wants to take the job of providing schools, teachers, text books exams etc on its own, it will not be able to do that.

So it has to mobilize resources. Which it can do by borrowing.

I think the more practical way is first in the form of devolution of power, at the level of Zila which can tackle the local problems including education administratively also.

Also as the basic unit of education is school of some sort. So existing schools including Government, Private, NGO`s, Maddressah etc can be utilized for this purpose. Also some incentives like tax break or others can be given for opening schools in areas of low education. The target should be universal education and working schools.

At the level of Curriculum, there should be some standardization at some level for quality assurance. The idea of BAhmed of Multiple text Books by private publishers but regulated for curriculum will take a lot of burden away from Government and may lead to healthy competition.

Exams are a very important aspect of Quality assurance. So it should be made as fair as possible. Not only that it should also be held at more frequent intervals like at 5, 8, (9), 10, (11), 12 class level to not only judge the performance of students, but also of school imparting the education. Also it is important to make the examination papers in such a way that it at least covers the curriculum, which student needs to know.

Why the English language?

People often point out that a big advantage the Indians and Pakistanis have in the US is their control over the english language. After seeing so many computer scientists from non-english speaking countries struggle through interviews in english, I always felt happy that I had a chance to study in english medium schools. For a long time, my opinion regarding the use of the english language in Pakistani schools was; the more the merrier. However, I am not so sure anymore.

How many first world countries use a foreign language as their medium of instruction at the primary and high school level. Let`s count and find out:

USA uses English, Canada uses English (I believe Quebec uses French), England uses English, France uses French, Spain uses Spanish, Japan uses Japanese, Germany uses German, Italy uses Italian, Holland uses Dutch; so on and so forth. So is there any first world country that teaches in a foreign language? Maybe, but I cannot think of one. They all emphasise learning a second language, but they do not use the second language to replace their primary langauge as a medium of instructions.

Let`s look at some up and coming countries that have recently moved out the third world or are on their way out, like some Asian lions and tigers:

China uses many different dialects of Chinese, Korea uses Korean, Hong Kong uses Chinese, Taiwan uses Chinese, Singapore uses a Chinese dialect, Malay (as well as certain other local languages), Malaysia uses Malay; so on and so forth (I maybe off-target on a few of these). People from these countries look at Indians and Pakistanis with awe, when they hear them speaking English in the US. However, Pakistanis and Indians are in awe of the progress these far east countries have made. Who is getting a better deal?

Now lets take a look at some third world countries:

Pakistan uses english (in the good schools at least), India uses english, Bangladesh uses English, Sri Lanka uses english, many of the African countries use the languages of their ex-colonial masters; so on and so forth.

Is a country better off if it has 10 US trained Ph.Ds and a 100 illiterates, or is it better off if it has 100 local language matriculates and no Ph.Ds. My guess used to the former, however now it is the later.

The progress of third world countries is not dictate by how many educated people it has. It is decided by how many uneducated people it does not have. It is not decided by how many of its citizens can pass the GRE, it is decided by how many citizens can read the local language newspapers. It is not decided by how many children have access to the Internet, it is decided by how many children have access to a primary school.

Speaking english is very easy for people who can speak it. It is very difficult for people who cannot. Sounds simple and obvious. How can a population of over a hundred million people be expected to study subjects in a foreign language, when they can barely study it in their own language. Twelve year old uneducated kids, working as, ``chota mechanics`` in a garage, can put a car engine together through memory, by translating all the parts into the local language What makes people think they will not be able to study science in their national language, and progress. If Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese can do it, why not Pakistanis.

The purpose of a govt. education policy should not to be to create Rhodes Scholars, Nobel Prize winners, or even B.S degree holders; at least not for third world countries. The purpose of a govt. education policy should be to give every single kid the opportunity to get to the matriculation level, in the easiest possible manner, i.e teach him/her in the easiest possible language. Once the masses are educated upto matric level, the Rhodes Scholars and Ph.Ds will start popping up by themselves. After all, didn`t Dr. Abdus Salam get his basic education in a local language school in Jhang.

Personally speaking, I have definitely gained from studying in english medium schools. It gives one a big advantage over Pakistanis in Pakistan, and over foreigners in the USA. So perhaps I should not be complaining. But has Pakistan gained by creating language based aparthied in its school system?

If education in a foreign language is such a huge advantage, then why are most of the countries that follow this policy locked in the third world? And how come almost all the countries that are not in the third world teach in their local/national languages? Is it a bad idea to switch all of Pakistan`s basic curriculum uptil matric completely to Urdu, and just teach English as a compulsory second language? Infact, why not even offer basic classes in the provincial languages, if required.

Ad #41 writes: ``Is GOD strong enough to build a stone so heavy tha he cannot lift it himself ?``

Actually he is. It is for you to figure out how :-) (Same way as scientists simply accept some of the counter-intuitive things at the sub-atomic level, like one particle being in multiple places at the same time, or a particle changing behavior simply by the fact of being observed. Interesting question though)

BTW please dont confuse Abu_Hal with such problems: He might start thinking that his way of thinking has something to do with God or with Islam.

We can lament and outline the problems of the Pakistani education system all we want on this discussion board.

For anyone who is really interested in rolling up their sleeve and actually doing something about it pls email me.

For those who wanted to know about NGO`s working in this field in Pakistan pls visit this site

www.care.org.pk. CARE is an NGO that has been working in Lahore and I have been involved in it. Currently we hope to register it in the U.S as an NPO (this process will take atleast a year).CARE has been given many Govt. MCL (muncipal corp of lahore) schools to run and the costs etc have increased considerably.Thus our need to register it in the U.S so that we can hopefully raise money in dollars and give people a tax break. So for anyone needing more info on CARE pls email me and anyone who would like to help their efforts will be appreciated.

Nushmia

nushmush@hotmail.com

Question : Do turnips taste better with desi ghee tarka (or Bhikar, for the ahle-zaban) ?

Answer: Indians stink with or without turbans and should be pushed back to the Godawari River

.....as usual any debate about any subject gets down to the root cause, the mother of all problems, the sink-hole that gobbles up intelligent life and spits out idiots, demagogues - Gunga Dins and Allah Dittas debating about dhotis and shalwars, pans and niswar, jinns and lingams - all mixed in with criticism of the IMF, the Digital Economy and the multinational conspiracy.....it is all so confusing, yet familiar and refreshing....

...... as for education in Pakistan - it is a flourishing cottage industry - at least in the big cities. There is a ``school``, sometimes ``computerized`` and often ``English medium`` on every street, in every mohalla and across from every werkshaap which employs the urchins that cannot afford the five hundred or so that it takes to be taught by BA-pass (third div) housewives who teach the intricacies of trigonometry and history between rolling parathas for breakfast and chappatis for lunch.....All these schools are doing is adding to noise pollution with the incessant singing of the national anthem, Iqbal`s ``lab pey ati hai dua`` and speeches by the headmaster who refuses to be bested by the imans, muezzins and plain-old maulvis who use audio technology in order to save the rotten souls of munafiqs who dare sleep at dawn.......Kids from the other side of tracks turn up their noses and snicker at these ``students`` as they drive past the computerized schools on the way to real education at Beacon House and the Convent......And what about tutors, tuitions and tuition centers - Ya Allah , what a racket. It seems to me that every middle-class kid is being tutored to imbecility and his parents to bankruptcy - Rs 1000 per subject at the tuition center and Rs 2000 for master-ji to make a home call...... The poor kids study and study and study, learning nothing, and failing to pass the admission test or getting the SAT score to get into NUST or LUMS......Guriah Rani ends up getting a BA in Home Economics which, accompanied by her good looks and a decent jahez, lands her a civil-servant husband; Munna, disgusted with western education, enrolls in the Islamic University to study Ilahi-Economics and Jinn-Physics taught by distinguished professors from Somalia, Gabon and Chad......eventually, if all goes well, he might end up embracing shahadat in Chechniya or getting a job as a Research Fellow at the Institute of Policy Studies in Islamabad . After a stint at IPS, writing papers on the evils of riba and the virtues of hijab, he can always go on to become a Naib-Amir at Mansoora before embracing shahadat in the Phillipines.

......as for Dr. Hoodbhoy .....a dear relative of mine, a man of letters, an author of many scholarly books, foreign-educated, a Senior Research Fellow and Executive Director at a top-notch think-tank in Pakistan, told me recently, between mouthfuls of my sister`s delicious fish and biryani, that he, that is Dr. Hoodbhoy, is an idiot and a mad man. He then proceeded to denounce Zia Mian, the late Dr. Iqbal Ahmed, Nayyer and others as communists, heretics, apostates and enemies of Islam who are all headed to hell in a tabligi`s lota. The shami kebas brought on a tirade against the evils of multinationals - `` we should kick them all out ``.....But, what about Motorala and PakTel....Mobiles and all that....````...Oh, we should wait until PTC gets their service going...``....`` but Bhai Jan what about Siemens and the traffic lights....``who needs them …. We will manage just fine`` Spices are a wonderful thing … their magical spell can only be broken by desert - gajar ka halwa arrived, and our family`s most eminent scholar beamed at us as he gushed about the dawn of the New Islamic Era.... I almost choked on the pista as others joined in to declare Asma Jehangir a woman of ``loose-character`` and a CIA agent......

On a brighter note .... in two weeks I rediscovered the joy of cricket - one day cricket, that is. What a game -what a thrill! The whole country is cricket-crazy ..... on the day Nawaz Sharif was sentenced to whatever, the kids were out at midnight playing cricket in the middle of the Faizabad interchange...... by the way, did anyone notice that they don`t light up that monstrous replica of Chaghi Hills anymore ..... Cricket overshadows everything - NAB, Wattoo, the Mians, atom bombs and IMF.....the apathy is pathetic, but nobody seems to care much about politics, politicians and democracy as long as the cricket team wins, onions are affordable and we still have a shot at Kashmir..... and those incorrigible Indians.

Textbook Industry in Pakistan

“Text-books is the second area needing radical reform” (Hoodbhoy). My father and uncle started as a small publisher-bookseller in 1947. Within a few years, they became a leading publisher of school textbooks through extremely hard work and dedication to the cause of education (as well as to their business). In the early 1950s, they virtually controlled/dominated the market in a large part of Sindh. Their objective was to provide well-written and well-printed textbooks to the children at the least possible cost.” In the late fifties, Silver Burdett Book Company of the United States published excellent books on history and geography, in Urdu. Those books were written by some leading Pakistani scholars in conjunction with the Americans. The print quality of those books was definitely better than most domestic textbooks. However, the cost of Silver Burdett books was exorbitant. After the Marshall law of 1958, Ayub Khan nationalized the text-book industry. This led to the proliferation of many new publishers who were subcontracted (like my father) to print government sponsored books. I hope, we all can guess the rest of the story.

I am not a great advocate of privatization. But, given the capacity (based on past performance) of our government, I tend to agree with Hoodbhoy that we need to “let private publishers compete and allow multiple textbooks to be used” as it was done before Ayub Khan’s regime. This arrangement would create some new tensions as a major component our educational system is as corrupt as our society (both state and civil society). Correctives would follow with parental interest, participation, and struggle within a decentralized system of public schooling and a free press.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Amit #47:

Well said and worth repeating. “Sigh....temporal you have your work cut out for you. Here is a classic case of distorted education that Dr. Hoodbhoy is talking about. The funny thing is that this individual does not even realize that he his completely bigoted and intolerant. For him all hindus eat cow dung and all westerners are indulging in pre-marital sex. Sheesh, when will people realize that we are all human beings who come to this planet for a few years before getting converted to ash/dust ? If muslims imagine that they are held to some higher standards, all the power to them. However, how does hatred of other people raise the standards for a muslim ?”

Amit, at the risk of offending some well meaning obscurantists, I would say we should indulge in a ‘jihad’ against this kind of hate filled bigotry. Yes, jihad! Jihad is also a fight against any oppressive tendency.

The moderates amidst Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Jains, Jews and others should stand up each time these bigots open their mouth. Failure to do so will result in the abandonment of the moderate’s silent majority to the fascistic tendencies of these born again fundos. (Yes, I refuse to label them fundamentalists.)

This jihad is a never ending work cut out (not for me alone as you hopefully suggest) for all of us who believe in tolerance and moderateness. I hope other readers will look out and join in here and elsewhere to rebut bigotry and intolerance.

(Based on language, phraseology, usage, ideas, presentation and more I suspect this character Abu hal, well more like “Abu Jehal”, is another Farangi Kush clone.)

regards

temporal

Abu hal:

Before I start taking you seriously please confirm or deny that you are or are not Mr. Farangi Kush under this garb.

temporal

I wonder if it is possible to reform and rehabilitate any existing system in isolation from rest of the society? I agree with Bilal Ahmad`s view that we need to look at problems in our education system (or any other existing system for that matter) in a broader perspective. In the absence of any vision whatsoever for the future of our beloved homeland, and a ceaseless environment of uncertainty, and fear, it would be a fruitless exercise to put resources, time, and energy into reforming the education system alone – in isolation from rest of the society.

Dr. Hoobhoy, while discussing one of the objectives of the curriculum for class v students (· “Demonstrate respect for the leaders of Pakistan” [pg153])”, mentioned the fact that:



``One presumes that on the morning of 12 October 1999, a model student had to present evidence of respect for Nawaz Sharif, and in the evening for Pervez Musharraf``

I would argue that the above can be applied as an analogy to the entire proposal of reform presented by Dr. Hoodbhoy. In the morning the reform process may be alive and well, but in the evening it may be dead and buried.

Unless the society, as whole, agrees on forming a meaningful social contract which embraces the values of humanity, freedom, justice, and peaceful coexistence, we will not get out of the vicious circle of poverty and illiteracy on one hand, and corruption and elitism on the other hand.