Nadia Siddique May 29, 2000
#14 Posted by farangi_kush on June 2, 2000 6:14:40 pm
urstruly:#16
sighed(sic),yielded,and bewildered.
You are 100% right.Let the public opinion reign supreme.
I,too,appreciate the sincerity of Temporals` efforts.He means well.
``Tamaam mazmoon miray puraanay,kalaam mair khataa saraapa
hunaar koi dekhtaa hai mujhh mein,tho aib hai mairay aib joo ka``.
A L L A M A IQBAL
tr:So all my writings are hackneyed & my verses full of errors
But if someone sees some merit in these,then it certainly is a failing of the error-pickers.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam.
sighed(sic),yielded,and bewildered.
You are 100% right.Let the public opinion reign supreme.
I,too,appreciate the sincerity of Temporals` efforts.He means well.
``Tamaam mazmoon miray puraanay,kalaam mair khataa saraapa
hunaar koi dekhtaa hai mujhh mein,tho aib hai mairay aib joo ka``.
A L L A M A IQBAL
tr:So all my writings are hackneyed & my verses full of errors
But if someone sees some merit in these,then it certainly is a failing of the error-pickers.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam.
#13 Posted by Urstruly on June 2, 2000 10:50:19 am
RE: FARANGI_KUSH Reply# 14
Dear FK,
I beg to differ with you on your take that filtering by the staff is ``criticism`` already. The statement that ``Staff does not necessarily agree with the views presented by author`` is a testimonial to that fact. Criticism by general public is beyond anyone`s control, though it is an excellent tool for self-evaluation, depending on how well you take it.
Encouraging young blood, to come forward and to show that they think and therefore they exist, is our moral responsibility. I like the objective approach adopted by Temporal in his reply# 12. Although it sounds a little blunt yet it is a fine mix of guidance, criticism, and encouragement.
Regards
Dear FK,
I beg to differ with you on your take that filtering by the staff is ``criticism`` already. The statement that ``Staff does not necessarily agree with the views presented by author`` is a testimonial to that fact. Criticism by general public is beyond anyone`s control, though it is an excellent tool for self-evaluation, depending on how well you take it.
Encouraging young blood, to come forward and to show that they think and therefore they exist, is our moral responsibility. I like the objective approach adopted by Temporal in his reply# 12. Although it sounds a little blunt yet it is a fine mix of guidance, criticism, and encouragement.
Regards
#12 Posted by farangi_kush on June 1, 2000 6:03:27 pm
urstruly:#13
I understand your viewpoint and agree with you on the general principle of it.
The filtering out of the ones which do not make it to these pages is `criticism` already.Beyond that I believe,there should be opinions only on the merits.Silence and ommissions are other aspects of disapproval.
It is better to have more & more contributors than create an atmosphere of `tyranny`.After all these young enthusiasts are already hesitant to approach us `senior` `educated` kinds and approach the alleyways of CHOWK gingerly & politely.The sheer thrill to see their stuff posted is enough for them to do better in their next effort.
Also,they do read the material by the `veterans` and that itself is `criticism` by example.
I wish to see younger & younger participants on CHOWK.They have a lot to teach us.
``Dil ka zaamin thu tera kya aitbaar
pehlay ik zamin ho zaamin kayliyay``.
(You the trustee of my heart?how can you be trusted.Let us see first the trustee who trusts you!!!)
Do we want to spawn critics for critics?Not me!!!
PS:Your Intikhab from Iqbal is La-javab.
and I`d say `makarrur` to that.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam
I understand your viewpoint and agree with you on the general principle of it.
The filtering out of the ones which do not make it to these pages is `criticism` already.Beyond that I believe,there should be opinions only on the merits.Silence and ommissions are other aspects of disapproval.
It is better to have more & more contributors than create an atmosphere of `tyranny`.After all these young enthusiasts are already hesitant to approach us `senior` `educated` kinds and approach the alleyways of CHOWK gingerly & politely.The sheer thrill to see their stuff posted is enough for them to do better in their next effort.
Also,they do read the material by the `veterans` and that itself is `criticism` by example.
I wish to see younger & younger participants on CHOWK.They have a lot to teach us.
``Dil ka zaamin thu tera kya aitbaar
pehlay ik zamin ho zaamin kayliyay``.
(You the trustee of my heart?how can you be trusted.Let us see first the trustee who trusts you!!!)
Do we want to spawn critics for critics?Not me!!!
PS:Your Intikhab from Iqbal is La-javab.
and I`d say `makarrur` to that.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam
#11 Posted by Urstruly on June 1, 2000 1:58:37 pm
RE: FARANGI_KUSH Reply # 11
Dear FK,
It is true that writer is young and aspiring, therefore, should be encouraged. But when you post your work on public forums it is bound to be critically evaluated by your pears and others.
It is even better to tell her how to handle the criticism well and make improvements accordingly.
Message For Nadia:
Keep up the good work and never give in.
Tundi-e-Bad-e-Mokhalif say na ghabra ay uqaab
Yeh to chalti hay tujhe ooncha uraanay kay leeyay.
(Allama Iqbal)
Dear FK,
It is true that writer is young and aspiring, therefore, should be encouraged. But when you post your work on public forums it is bound to be critically evaluated by your pears and others.
It is even better to tell her how to handle the criticism well and make improvements accordingly.
Message For Nadia:
Keep up the good work and never give in.
Tundi-e-Bad-e-Mokhalif say na ghabra ay uqaab
Yeh to chalti hay tujhe ooncha uraanay kay leeyay.
(Allama Iqbal)
#10 Posted by temporal on May 31, 2000 7:10:48 pm
Nadia:
NOTES FOR A BEGINNER
Welcome to Chowk.
I will try to be as objective as possible.
There is a school of thought that believes that a writer should not be superfluous. They believe in editing, cutting, re-writing and deleting words again and again, till any further deletion would substantially alter the meaning --- the meaning of the sentence, the thought or the subject matter.
To illustrate my point, let us take one sentence from your story.
--- “Since I am a working woman, I usually come back home by 5:00 p.m. though it gets later than that, depending on the workload.” (24 words)
Let us try and convey the same information with less words.
1: Unless the workload is heavy, I am usually home by 5 p.m. (11 words)
2: Subject to workload, I am usually home by 5 p.m. (10 words)
3: Unless I am working late, I am home by 5 p.m. (11 words)
4: Most days I am home by 5 p.m. (8 words)
#4 does not fully convey in 8 words what you were trying to express in 24. But depending on your style and preference you can select sentence #s 1,2, or 3 and convey the same thought in 10 or 11 words.
A few words about the plot and other related topics.
Read any good anthology of short stories in English or Krish`n Chander, Saadat Hasan Manto, Ismat Chughtai (my favourite is `lehaaf`) and Intezar Husain’s symbolic short stories in Urdu. Try to analyze for yourself what constitutes the plot and how the writer moves it forward by the choice of words, actions, locales and sometimes by avoiding the obvious.
Now on to other related subjects.
You would do well to remember that learning is a never ending process. And contrary to what you might hear, you can learn from bigots and idiots as well.
There is a folklore around Shaikh Sa’adi. He claimed that he learns (wisdom) even from imbeciles. Someone asked him about how or what could he have learned from them. He replied that he learned from them things a wise man should avoid.
Finally, without being patronizing, or condescending let me ask you this: why did you write this story? Have you succeeded or failed in saying the obvious? (He giveth: He taketh away!) Have you said this in some unique or different way? Have you given it a different dimension?
And before making a final submission anywhere, specially here, please re-read a few times and check for the obvious errors. I am sure had you done it, you would have caught the one major faux pas and seven minor errors on your own.
Please continue reading, and learning. And writing.
rgds
t
NOTES FOR A BEGINNER
Welcome to Chowk.
I will try to be as objective as possible.
There is a school of thought that believes that a writer should not be superfluous. They believe in editing, cutting, re-writing and deleting words again and again, till any further deletion would substantially alter the meaning --- the meaning of the sentence, the thought or the subject matter.
To illustrate my point, let us take one sentence from your story.
--- “Since I am a working woman, I usually come back home by 5:00 p.m. though it gets later than that, depending on the workload.” (24 words)
Let us try and convey the same information with less words.
1: Unless the workload is heavy, I am usually home by 5 p.m. (11 words)
2: Subject to workload, I am usually home by 5 p.m. (10 words)
3: Unless I am working late, I am home by 5 p.m. (11 words)
4: Most days I am home by 5 p.m. (8 words)
#4 does not fully convey in 8 words what you were trying to express in 24. But depending on your style and preference you can select sentence #s 1,2, or 3 and convey the same thought in 10 or 11 words.
A few words about the plot and other related topics.
Read any good anthology of short stories in English or Krish`n Chander, Saadat Hasan Manto, Ismat Chughtai (my favourite is `lehaaf`) and Intezar Husain’s symbolic short stories in Urdu. Try to analyze for yourself what constitutes the plot and how the writer moves it forward by the choice of words, actions, locales and sometimes by avoiding the obvious.
Now on to other related subjects.
You would do well to remember that learning is a never ending process. And contrary to what you might hear, you can learn from bigots and idiots as well.
There is a folklore around Shaikh Sa’adi. He claimed that he learns (wisdom) even from imbeciles. Someone asked him about how or what could he have learned from them. He replied that he learned from them things a wise man should avoid.
Finally, without being patronizing, or condescending let me ask you this: why did you write this story? Have you succeeded or failed in saying the obvious? (He giveth: He taketh away!) Have you said this in some unique or different way? Have you given it a different dimension?
And before making a final submission anywhere, specially here, please re-read a few times and check for the obvious errors. I am sure had you done it, you would have caught the one major faux pas and seven minor errors on your own.
Please continue reading, and learning. And writing.
rgds
t
#9 Posted by farangi_kush on May 31, 2000 2:11:03 pm
Bina:# 9
Bina I realised my ``faux pa`` and promptly registered a mea culpa,in the # 3 post.
Yes it is fiction.A very good and very well written short short story it is and it does have that extra dimension & //complexity of human emotion.If it does not toe some weird alien(freudian,jungian antiquities) line and and asserts independance then you cannot fault her.
I did pause at the //fatal part but soon recovered because sometimes the Doctors` prognosis and police report do mention that prior to `fatality`.
Nadia:Many an aspiring writers have been shrivelled by unsolicited `critics`.Always seek critics on your own and evaluate their opinions critically(including this one).
__________________________________________________wassalaam
Bina I realised my ``faux pa`` and promptly registered a mea culpa,in the # 3 post.
Yes it is fiction.A very good and very well written short short story it is and it does have that extra dimension & //complexity of human emotion.If it does not toe some weird alien(freudian,jungian antiquities) line and and asserts independance then you cannot fault her.
I did pause at the //fatal part but soon recovered because sometimes the Doctors` prognosis and police report do mention that prior to `fatality`.
Nadia:Many an aspiring writers have been shrivelled by unsolicited `critics`.Always seek critics on your own and evaluate their opinions critically(including this one).
__________________________________________________wassalaam
#8 Posted by writer_77 on May 31, 2000 9:56:08 am
hmm...well...i didn`t feel the story alive. For me the characters were dead in the first para. Make it more realistic. give more details. make me feel karachi, if u are giving away story`s setting. the part about smile was touching but the story needs a back up. To be honest, it is a story told too many times. It is too trite. Jazz it up. leaving that aside i think its a good start. Take critism positively, u will find many in this world, who will bum-lick u but a few who can be frank. Get emotionally deattached from the story and u might see what i mean.
#7 Posted by Bina on May 31, 2000 6:48:04 am
I`m going to be more critical than everyone else and say that I thought this story needed far more work before it would be able to capture a reader`s attention and/or really entertain. Obviously it is fiction (Farangi_Kush doesn`t seem to think so :) ) so it needs to have more depth than what you have presented here. The subject matter is something that a lot of people have already written about so you`d need a really different angle to make me sit up and take notice. Also, I found the ending hackneyed and somewhat false - how could a mother who`s lost her child only feel thankfulness? There are a whole wealth of emotions that should be explored, could be explored.
The whole point of a short short story is that every word must count. The plot should be carefully constructed, and the language should burst out at you. Nadia, you have potential to do all that and more. I suggest you go beyond the obvious in your next piece and really dig deep to portray life in all its complexity. You can do better. Good luck!
(PS If her injuries were fatal she`d already have died by the time the narrator reached the hospital).
The whole point of a short short story is that every word must count. The plot should be carefully constructed, and the language should burst out at you. Nadia, you have potential to do all that and more. I suggest you go beyond the obvious in your next piece and really dig deep to portray life in all its complexity. You can do better. Good luck!
(PS If her injuries were fatal she`d already have died by the time the narrator reached the hospital).
#6 Posted by taimurmalik on May 30, 2000 11:05:29 pm
hey..great work...you should take to short-story writing more seriously...though I think this one had a hastened ending..
btw. I am glad that there are other people my age on chowk::))
cheers.
Taimur Malik.
btw. I am glad that there are other people my age on chowk::))
cheers.
Taimur Malik.
#5 Posted by scout on May 30, 2000 8:05:01 pm
such a delicate topic deserved more than what you wrote. you write well, just write more :)
good luck with everything.
good luck with everything.
#4 Posted by Zehra on May 30, 2000 4:39:35 pm
nadia,
a little too pedestrian...try to reach further. a short short story could also have more solid connections. it was a little hard for me to thank god for giving the world the girl that died since you didnt really mention her. things like that will distract from any story.
rizvi.
a little too pedestrian...try to reach further. a short short story could also have more solid connections. it was a little hard for me to thank god for giving the world the girl that died since you didnt really mention her. things like that will distract from any story.
rizvi.
#3 Posted by farangi_kush on May 30, 2000 4:39:35 pm
Nadia:
I somehow missed the `thirteen year old` sentence & perhaps got carried away by.A sigh of relief that it was not `personal`.
May I add that you also possess the gift of genuine empathy for fellow beings.
To second Dr.Amber-----Please do keep writing.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam
I somehow missed the `thirteen year old` sentence & perhaps got carried away by.A sigh of relief that it was not `personal`.
May I add that you also possess the gift of genuine empathy for fellow beings.
To second Dr.Amber-----Please do keep writing.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam
#2 Posted by akber on May 30, 2000 4:39:35 pm
the theme was pretty much predictable and the end was a little too quick ....
but it was nice though .....
( at least u got posted here, they refused 2 of my articles)
so good work nadia ...looking forward to read more of you ...
p.s I love reading too guess thats why we all come here .....
but it was nice though .....
( at least u got posted here, they refused 2 of my articles)
so good work nadia ...looking forward to read more of you ...
p.s I love reading too guess thats why we all come here .....
#1 Posted by farangi_kush on May 30, 2000 12:01:50 am
Nadia:
Only 20? and such patience,faith & fortitude!!
You are a beacon of hope for many; to me for sure.
---very poignant about-----gift-- --(can`t write more)
``Inna Allaha wa inna ilahay raajaoon``
tr:verily,we are from Allah & to him shall we(all) return.``
__________________________________________________
with dua & pyaar
Only 20? and such patience,faith & fortitude!!
You are a beacon of hope for many; to me for sure.
---very poignant about-----gift-- --(can`t write more)
``Inna Allaha wa inna ilahay raajaoon``
tr:verily,we are from Allah & to him shall we(all) return.``
__________________________________________________
with dua & pyaar
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