Looking for Razia

Ms. Krishnaswami:

I should be very interested in learning if you ever locate your friend in Pakistan, Dubaii, Saudi Arabia, Canada, the U.S., UK or elsewhere where Pakistanis are exported; I mean where the the largest amount of Pakistan`s `natural`resource, its people and their labour, is exported

Have you tried other sites and newsletters for your announcement? If not, do try them.

Veeresh #26: Pakistan is slightly larger than Karachi. Besides, assumption of ownership of a telephone (and the ``Directories`` caring to be complete and correct) is a little far fetched. But, then, of course, you already know that.

I visit both sides of the border quite often and I know it`s the same ``Hamam``.

FIVE TERRORISTS ARRESTED

HASSAN ABDAL, June 13 (Online) - Hassan Abdal police have arrested five terrorists after hectic efforts and recovered weapons from their custody.

According to details, five terrorists --- Imran Hussain son of Safdar Hussain of Rawalpindi, Mohammad Sharif son of Mohammad Ashraf of Khala Syedan, Islamabad, Altaf Hussain son of Mohammad Aslam of Khala Syedan, Islamabad, Tahir Mahmood

son of Mohammad Aslam of Taxila and Yousaf Khan son of Mansab Khan of Garja road, Rawalpindi --- created panic and harassed the people by opening aerial firing at city bus stand Tuesday morning.

On receiving the information, ASP Zulfiqar Hameed, Resident Magistrate Mohammad Sharafuddin, SHO City Masood Kiani and SHO Saddar Sabir Mir along with a team of local journalists reached the spot.

On seeing the police, terrorists proceeded towards nearby hills in order to escape and hide themselves. A heavy police contingent chased and arrested them after hectic efforts.

Police have registered a case and are investigating.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnuuuuuuuuunnnn

Have you read the above piece?

Just consider the time it may have taken all these keystone cops to get together --while those guys were using guns. Does it mean that those guys were terrifying the innocent citizens for anywhere from one half hour to, who knows, there or four hours? Did you also notice that there were fewer keystone cops and more names? That`s why they did not go to ``JaiWaqooa`` till they had rounded up a few journalists. These cops were concerned more with their citations and promotions than with stopping the ``terrorism`` perpetrated on the citizenry.

You thank your stars that you adopted the venue that you did and didn`t request the police to lend a helping hand. I hope your mother succeeds in finding her friend in Pakistan. I can imagine her desire to meet such old friends. I was instrumental in finding a friend in Pakistan (turned out, a member of the FerozSons family) for a friend, wife of an MP (India). But I was able to do that because I visited Pakistan rather frequently on official business. Both ladies have passed away now but I remember their final few years of many happy cross-border visits.

I hope your mother has found her friend by now. (Sorry, haven`t been keeping up wih the Chowk; I am not acquainted with the mail here. Just your write-up.

top

Why would this article spur off anything more than, maybe, help to get people to look in the Karachi telephone directory of, say, the `50s or so?

Because we are all still dumb enough to believe that our small and petty internecine battles mean anything else to the rest of the world, except the arms suppliers ofcourse.

Anyway, the borders are crumbling, and on purely economic grounds. Gas pipelines will cross by land across, coal is already moving and most of all, my information is that the Gulf of Kutch is, once again this monsoon as the seaborne forces of both countries rest, wide open.

Maybe one day all Uma will have to do is to get into a boat and get off at Clifton and walk into orangi and find her friend and have a cup of coffee.

But no, before that we will have to figure out if the coffee was plucked by Muslims or Hindus?

I once again ask for religion, and now also cricket, to be banned from chowk on trial basis for, say, 30 days!!!

correction #24: ``Do you think if Indians hate Pakistanis also``

should read, ``Do you think Indians hate Pakistanis also``

harish #14: ``Pakistanis must hate Indians, and if they were to stop, they would cease to be Pakistanis.``

This is an interesting comment. I hope this is not the belief that all Indians hold. I am assuming you are expressing your personal feelings here. Do you think if Indians hate Pakistanis also, and would Indians cease to be Indians if they did not hate Pakistanis? Or are Pakistanis the only ones who do all the hating?

``but the truth of the matter is that the same evils of intolerance and hatred, that are encompassed in the Nazi and KKK ideologies, were and are present at the core of the ideology of Pakistan.``

This is another interesting comment. My own experience has been that people who have the most hatred and intolerance inside themselves tend to see it in others, as well.

I have always found it rather odd (and somewhat humurous) the types of interest Indians take in the ideology of Pakistan. I did not realize this before I ended up on Chowk. I do not think Pakistanis take the same amount of interest in the ideology of India. India is a country that exists, its there on the map; and that`s that. Ditto on Pakistan.

Countries do not need justification from other countries to define their existence. I am surprised there are people who actually waste their time trying to challenge the justifications of the creation of countries that have been on the map of the world for decades. These countries exist because the people living on that particular landmass want these countries to exist. They do not need approval from any other country to define their existence. What their neighbors think about the existence of these countries is immaterial, i.e Pakistan exists because Pakistanis want it to exist, and India exists becuase Indians want it to exist. I think the two countries are different enough to be separate countries, and similar enough to be friendly neighbors. What`s the point in criticising the ideologies of each other`s existence. How about thinking about one`s own ideology, and letting other countries worry about theirs.

My own feeling after seeing all the Indian interest in the ideology of Pakistan (Indians seem more interested in the ideology of Pakistan than Pakistanis) stems from the fact that they still feel the South Asian landmass belongs to Hindus. From their comments it seems as though many Indians feel that Muslims came into historically Hindu lands, ruled over Hindus for 800 years, and then, ``broke up`` their Hindu landmass and created their own country, when the Hindus finally had a chance to finally rule over the Indian landmass after 1000 years. Any objective replies from Indians, regarding this, would be welcome here.

As far as Pakistanis hating Indians: I think you can sleep easy, the situation is not nearly as extreme as you think. Pakistanis have too many other day to day issues to worry about. Hating or loving India is way down on the priority pole. Basically, I think Pakistanis feel that India has aggressive designs toward Pakistan, and is unnecessary creating an arms race in the Sub- Continent. And that India is being very unfair in Kashmir because of which there is no peace in South Asia. That`s about it. Apart from that, Pakistanis aren`t concerned one way or the other about India.

ali1

Looks like in your class- and gene-ridden philosophy, there is also a heirarchy of visas, now why is that? Your posts look like garbage, too, so whats the difference?

I would advise you to be like your superiors or `hum-genes` in Saudi Arabia who asked after the Lattur earthquake in India which killed thousands:how many Muslims died?

A similar question you ought to ask about those who died in any communal riots in India, how many who died were Ahmediyas? Then you maynot feel so bad, afterall in your home country they would be sent to their deaths by the state itself for daring to consider themselves Muslims and for espousing Islamic causes, right?

Sadhana

RE cheraym # 13

``How do you know whether every one of us was endorsing whatever has happened to Babri Mosque?``

Doesn`t take an H1-B visa to figure that out. You elected the party responsible for destruction to power, so it might not be everyone, it certainly is a majority that burns in their hatred of muslims and Pakistanis.

``And let us not talk about destruction of worship places, your side is not free of that crime either.``

Maybe you are right, but we don`t (and can`t) practice the level of hypocricy that you guys are the ultimate masters of.....Burn the mosque and kill the muslims but what the heck Ms. Krishnaswami misses Razia to this day.

``I hope Allah gives you enough strength to overcome your hate.``

And I hope Bhagwan gives you the courage to acknowledge the hate that you have for muslims and Pakistanis and save you from your own hypicricy.

RE temporal # 12

``I presume you are a true patriotic son of the soil braving it out there? If so, I have deep respect for you.``

I left the country a decade ago, but unlike some pompous asses around here, I don`t claim that I am the Aql-e-Kul who knows exactly what is wrong, why is it wrong and how to fix it.

``Please wake up and smell the coffee, tea, roses, lobaan, agarbati, the desert loo, stench from the liberally dispersed garbage --- whatever it takes --- and tell the emperor what he is wearing. For he is not wearing any.

The writing is on the wall. One can either read it or shield it from the line of vision.``

I don`t see how you are qualified to make these pronouncements. You sound as arrogant as a Qul Aaozia Mullah (whom you love to condemn so often) who thinks he and only he knows the absolute truth.

Harish:

Although I agree with you in some parts of your post with much sadness, but I also believe what Temporal is saying. I agree that if the cause is not removed, there will never be solution. However, unless you try, you never succeed. That is why we need more people on both sides so that issues can be seen in their proper perspectives. We need people like Prof. Hoodbhoy who can design a proper curriculam for the schoolchildren which is not based on false history and over emhasis on religion poisoining young minds.

Is not humanity God`s best creation? Then should we allow it to fail only because of a small minority? I see many people in both countries want peace as there is no substitute for that.

By the way, don`t think I am in for sending all our Muslim brothers to Pakistan. This was a suggestion to Ali1 or like-minded people who shed crocodile tears for all the oppressed people in India. Who am I to send them in a place where they themselves may not want to go?

Regards

cheraym

temporal,

do you want to take ras too or he would have the right of self-determination?

Thank you Uma for getting Desis back in touch
with their roots. I admire your sentiments here
and hope that the children/grandchildren of Razia
will meet their counterparts too, someday.
Partition may be physically over (or is it?). But relationships never die. Like your Razia, there are hundreds of thousands of ``Indian`` Kashmiris that would like to interact with or even join their relatives and friends in ``Pakistani`` Kashmir One can wish them luck!

Ras

harish3 #14

Disagree. Vehemently!

Love and hate are the sides of the same coin. Where there is hatred there is bound to be love.

KKK and the Negroes or the Nazis and Jews analogy do not apply to Indians and Pakistanis: whatever the degree of their current hatred and mistrust.

The way I see it, Pakistan is a reality. As is India. No gods can undo that! No matter how hard Pakistanis try, they will never self-destruct into the Indian laps.

Recognizing this, we can try and lower the temperature ever so gradually.

We have tried hate for so long. We should give love a chance.

perhaps naively,
or perhaps optimistically,
or perhaps foolishly,

temporal

Cheryam

To complete the analogy to Macbeth, Pakistan must swim across the sea of intolerance into which it has entered. It is past the point of no return. Sadly, like Macbeth, though they may try, no one ever reaches the other side. They drown in their own hate. Our forefathers (India’s) made a mistake. They didn’t stand up to this hate in 1947 and it has given us the last 53 years of violence. Now, as a new generation comes of age in India, and we don’t have to deal with the hate. We don’t have time for war, so we must ignore the hate and wait for it to drown itself.

I did, however, find your post amusing – suggesting that Pakistanis, who feel that Indian Muslims, as a religious group, are oppressed by India, should accept Indian Muslims into their “Islamic paradise” of Pakistan. I find it amusing because as repugnant as the notion of forcing particular Indian citizens to leave the country because of their religion is (notion on which Pakistan was founded), our beloved Pakistani “brothers” could say nothing. What? We would just be following the “two nation theory.” India for the Hindus and Pakistan for the Muslims. Who cares about individual liberties? It is all for the greater good, yaar. As pathetic and disgusting as it would be for India to do something like forcing her Muslim population to leave, Pakistan could say nothing because to do so would be to go against their own evil ideology. And the thought of that – Pakistan tripping over her own hypocrisy – makes me chuckle.

Regards,

Harish

Temporal and cheryam

While I commend you’re desires for peace between India and Pakistan, to ignore the reasons for the mistrust is to simply treat the symptoms without treating the cause. I used to feel the same as you – that Indians and Pakistanis, regardless of the past, should do their best to get along. Now I feel that the best thing would be for us to leave each other alone. Indians and Pakistanis are diametrically opposed. Pakistanis must hate Indians, and if they were to stop, they would cease to be Pakistanis. To paraphrase another Chowk contributor, the underlying ideology of Pakistan can be summed up as “Not India.” Can the Jew and the Nazi be friends? Can the African and the Klu Kluz Klan be “brothers?” I don’t believe Pakistanis are Nazis or have similar beliefs to the KKK (although I’m sure Pakistanis feel the opposite about us Indians – despite the fact that they watch our movies, shop at our groceries, and interact with us in immigrant communities around the world…), but the truth of the matter is that the same evils of intolerance and hatred, that are encompassed in the Nazi and KKK ideologies, were and are present at the core of the ideology of Pakistan. No matter how much the honorable Pakistani (and I believe most are honorable) wants to believe that their state was necessary to protect a religious minority of India, in their minds, they can’t escape the hypocrisy of the fact that Pakistan trounced over rights of an even more helpless and vulnerable minority – the non-Muslims who were forced to flee and surrender their own lives, property, and pursuit for happiness. As demonstrated on Chowk, many of the latest generation of Pakistanis realize this underlying problem and try to get around it with talk of Pakistan not needing a reason to exist-“It exists, so deal with it” being the general gist. But it is these fundamental problems that have existed since Pakistan’s birth that have led to the countries’ current state, and it is these problems that have prevent Pakistan from convincing the world of their legitimacy in Kashmir.

So Temporal, while I admire your compassion, like Jay, I prefer the sentiments of ali1 who hates me as a good Pakistani should. Like Macbeth, Pakistan has waded into the sea of intolerance too far. The shore from which it started is not any closer then shore for which it is heading, so it must complete its run.

Ali1:

So I see where the hate comes from. However, do not brand all Indians to be hypocrite. How do you know whether every one of us was endorsing whatever has happened to Babri Mosque? And let us not talk about destruction of worship places, your side is not free of that crime either. Many readers in Chowk have responded to YLH about 140 million muslims left behind, I am not going to add any more on this. If you feel that strongly why don`t you give blanket citizenship to all of them (as one suggested) and offer them the best you can, and see how many cross the border. I for one don`t want to loose Shah Rukh, Shabana Azmi, Zakir Hussien, and above all Bismillah Khan.

I think Uma`s post was one of reconciliation nature, not to spread any more hate. I hope Allah gives you enough strength to overcome your hate. Let us move on.....

Sameer, I like your quantifying the slogans. So let us have peace 200% Zindabad.

ali1 #11:

I presume you are a true patriotic son of the soil braving it out there? If so, I have deep respect for you.

Please wake up and smell the coffee, tea, roses, lobaan, agarbati, the desert loo, stench from the liberally dispersed garbage --- whatever it takes --- and tell the emperor what he is wearing. For he is not wearing any.

The writing is on the wall. One can either read it or shield it from the line of vision.

rgds

t