The day I got circumcised

Dear Shiraz,

This is the most effective piece of writing I have ever read on the subject of male circumcision, which I believe is a curse on humanity, just as severely as female circumcision is. In our orthodox society, where questioning (tradition) is considered an unforgivable crime, it requires a great deal of courage to express one`s rational opinion, for the fear of retaliation from the dumb, insensitive and static masses, who have no place for logic in their lives.

A huge number of muslims in our society do not offer prayers, do not fast in Ramadan, and do not pay zakat, and yet they are accepted at large, but we find no place for those who prefer to remain the way God created them (intact as opposed to circumcised), while this practice has never been even mentioned in Quran.

How ignorent are we. We mindlessly follow barbaric and crual rituals generations after generations, and never question them. Never think as to how a God whom we believe is `Rehman` and `Rahim` can be so crual and insensitive to humiliate those who believe in him by ordereing them to become a target of humour by sacrificing a precious organ of their bodies. How can he ask his followers to greet their new borns with a knife.

I hope your effective and yet a very literary piece of writing will trigger many to think about the rationale behind such a wide spread and henious practice. May some decide to leave their new borns the way they are born.

I wish this article of yours and many others to follow are published in all the leading magazines of our circle countries.

Suhail

RE: KAFIR Reply#96

Oh! by the way, Kafir!, I just remembered seeing the Lingum worship on an episode of National Geographics. Now I recall that the idols that were being worshiped were of circumcised penises. (Solitude! Does that mean a circumcised penis equals a god? are you a beleiver too?). hummmm never thought about it that way before.

Another idea came to my mind about worship of ``circumcised penises``-Kafir! are you thinking what I am thinking? Sometimes I wish that I were outspoken like you.

RE: KAFIR Reply#96

!!!!THE Kafir has spoken again.!!!!

The key to answer your questions lies in finding out the mysteriously ``grand role of phuppi``-have you found that out yet?

Although the topic is not interesting, because in the medical community this is unaminous, that circumcision prevents against balanitis, meaning infection of pen-is. Against Phimosis and paraphimosis which are extremely painful conditions and can have some severe complications, if not taken care of by the LOATHED circumcision and last but not least, the incidence of cancer of penis is higher (stastistically significant) in non circumcised people.

Now due to advantages of circumcision, christians have also started to circumcise.

Religious edict in jews, put them in circumcised category (whether it makes them as savage as Muslims or not due to it is debatable), as well as not Koranic injunction but ``Sunnat`` to get circumcised for Muslims.

It is hygeinic. Without any doubt.

As far as AIDS more common in uncircumcised, the traumatic theory might be as relevant (viruses transmit through abraded skin) as cultural theory.

As far as evolution taking care of foreskin is the most rubbish proposal of a student of art.

Although, I don`t agree with long intestine as useless, but appendix definitely is a vestigial organ whose sole purpose seems to benefit the surgeons. Also why should we trim our nail, or hairs or moustaches.

I think the point by Omar phoenix is very valid regarding cleanliness.

Also , I would mention the cleaning by water of ``essential call of nature`` as compared to paper towel.

The post by BINA on FGM is very valid.

And it is a myth that foreskin is a very sensitive organ. It is the glans.

If circumcision is so harmful and traumatic to male newborns, why in the world is the procedure performed at so many hospitals all over the world. In a country as medically advanced as the United States, wouldn`t you think that procedures harmful to the child would be banned?

Where are the anti-circumcision activists when thousands of male newborns are circumcized in hospitals? maybe you should think about lobbying against the procedure, using child abuse as a reason. I`m quite serious here, no sarcasm. If you feel that it`s wrong, do something about it.

Perhaps the whole medical field and hospitals have missed something. I encourage you to pursue the cause beyond Chowk. What good is arguing with a stubborn women (not girls, I`m 24 for heavens sakes) like Bina and I, or others?

It`s not in our hands to stop the ``abuse.``

So stop banging your head against a wall that doesn`t budge.

solitude:

Aap kee khidmut mein:

......

``Lekin uss shokh kay aahistaa sey khiltay huay hoant.

Haayay uss jism kay kum-bukht dil avaiz khutoot

AAp hee kahyay kaheen aisay bhee afsoon hoangay

--Upnaa mauzoo-ay sukhan iss kay siva aur naheen``

....................................etc. etc

Faiz Ahmed Faiz.

tr:

O but the ever so slow parting,blossoming,of her lips

O what curves & mounds at the right places in her body

Now do you not agree,there is none & nowhere else such dreamy fantasy exist.

------There is no subject to talk about,other than this,that is relevant.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam

It`s upsetting to see some girls who hypocritically justify the circumcision of men while condemning female circumcision. They take extreme and graphic examples of female circumcision and then compare it dismissively to male circumcision which the public has become immune to (thanks to public indifference to blind mindless rituals).

But what happiness! to see some girls

condemning the circumcision of men (AND women). Yes, there are some ugly girls in this world, and some beautiful girls - some girls are so beautiful !

``Lighten up good guy``

Ok if you say so. Let me try to lighten up here :

Some doctors in Pakistan accidentally cut off a little too much during a circumcision operation. They try to stitch the organs back but the nerves have been severed. Since the child was just born they decide to go all the way and perform a sex change operation on the infant.

When they tell the parents that they have changed the boy`s penis into a vagina - the parents exclaim in anger :``You mean my son will never experience another erection?``

``Oh, I`m sure he will``, reassured the doctor, ``only it`ll be somebody else`s.``

--

How about another one ? something to do with experiencing the ``lingam`` in Kargil?

How about where the circumcized boy realizes his penis is actually shorter than the natural boy ?

``Many avoid any discussion of circumcision; others can discuss it only humorously. Some trivialize it, while others become angry when circumcision is challenged.

As circumcision is often not a voluntary commitment to group identity, but is imposed on children by adults, this suggests that circumcision is a form of social control.

Immerman and Mackey [42] indicated that childhood circumcision, resulting in neurological re-organization/atrophy of brain circuitry, was perhaps a primitive effort to produce a male who is less sexually excitable, less distracted by individual goals of amorous exchanges, and hence, more amenable to group authority figures. They described circumcision as ``low-grade neurological castration.`` Such psychosexual wounding is consistent with past human motivations. Religious commentators assert that circumcision controls male lust [43-45].

As childhood circumcisions are one marker for more violent, warrior-like, and patriarchal societies [48], the victims’ visceral lesson in learned helplessness (which also lessens the power of women by overriding maternal instincts to protect their children) subjects both sexes to control by the dominant cultural authority. Rejecting circumcision’s presumed virtues announces the limits of one’s loyalty to group authority [49].`` January, 1999 (British Journal of Urology) (83, Suppl. 1), p. 85-92

When a newborn’s penis is scrubbed before circumcision, often inducing an erection, the boy’s pleasure response, followed by pain and trauma, become his first shared sexual experience. Developmental neuro-psychologists contend that extraordinary exposure to stress hormones, as in infant circumcision, carries psychobiological consequences, potentially altering brain development, function and behavior [24] - The above also leads to the typical guilty behaviour of Pakistani men - who become traumatized (or guilty) after experiencing pleasure.

Scout:# 91

Good repartee!!!

Now Mr.Saxena is busy ``peeping into his armpits``

(baghlain jhank rahai hain).

Stranger:``vahan kya hai``?

A::``baghal mein chhurri,munh pay raam raam``

Stranger:``tho phir voh kya karain``?

A::``Ub jayain aur baghlain bajaiyain``

with or without deoderants.Desis certainly do not mind.But please do not smell of Liquor or beer when in the company of the great desis.

__________________________________________________Lighten up good guy

wassalaam__

In response to Rsaxena #86

``Stop citing anecdotal incidents against other religions``

What you referred to as anecdotal references appeared as a headline on CNN.com a few days ago

in case you haven`t been reading, I encourage you and people reading this reply to go to this site:

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/south/06/19/india.caste.ap/index.html

some headlines there:

Militants vow there will be more massacres in

India`s `class war` June 20, 2000

Gunmen in India execute 34 villagers in revenge caste killings, June 17, 2000

My reference to the massacre of innocent lower caste Hindus by upper class Hindus was not anecdotal Mr. Saxena. My other reference to the Holocaust was not anecdotal, my reference to the killings of Muslims by Serbs was NOT ANECDOTAL.

``.open your eyes and pick up a newspaper (not the Yawn or the Dung) or world magazine and you`ll see it.``

Your insulting of the Pakistani Jang and Dawn just show your racism and lack of character.

Think before you write, and open your mind.

You won`t get anywhere with that prejudiced ``hate Islam`` attidue, along with Solitude. The world is getting smaller, and you are trying to increase the rifts. People like you are called ``war-mongers.``

Incidentally circumcision has been justified by raising the ghost of one ``spectre`` (or fear) since time immemorial. Before Science was at an advanced stage you scared people by saying ``If you dont circumcized God will strike you down ...`` now it is ``If you don`t circumcize you will get AIDS ...`` before AIDS it was ``cancer`` [1] . Circumcision was touted as the divine cure to ``masturbation`` and hairy palm disease and every other imaginably scary human pain.

Following is information about foreskins:

The foreskin contains “junctional mucosa that appear to be an important component of the overall sensory mechanism of the human penis” [2]

The foreskin is not vestigial or redundant tissue, in that no other part of the male body does what the foreskin does, or feels what the foreskin feels.

The foreskin serves to protect the glans, thereby maintaining the glans-surface’s naturally-intended thinness, texture, and sensitivity.

The foreskin has rich sensations in and of itself. The foreskin also plays a mechanical-lubrication role. It serves as a gliding sheath during masturbation or sexual activity, rendering the quality of the friction between the man and his partner more gentle, less abrasive. This is useful to the woman, especially with prolonged intercourse and especially with age, when she provides less liquid lubrication. With circumcision, this natural gliding mechanism is lost.

The fact that the foreskin in infancy is usually non-retractile serves to protect the baby’s glans penis from urine and feces during the period that he is incontinent.

Women have a foreskin as well, which covers and protects their clitoris. It is alternatively referred to as the clitoral foreskin, clitoral prepuce, or clitoral hood.

[1]Journal of the American Medical Association 1970, Volume 213(11): Pages 1853-1858.[http://www.cirp.org/library/general/preston/]

[2](J. R. Taylor et al. The prepuce: specialized mucosa of the penis and its loss to circumcision. British Journal of Urology (1996) 77, pp. 291-295.)

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) states: “The uncircumcised penis is easy to keep clean. No special care is required. No attempt should be made to forecefully retract the foreskin [of a child whose foreskin is as yet unretractable].”

Simple overall hygiene can offer all the potential benefits of circumcision, without the sacrifice of the health benefits of the foreskin and of physical and functional integrity.

Intact genital hygiene for a male is easier and less time-consuming than either oral, feminine, or anal hygiene. (If a man takes more than 10 seconds to wash his foreskin, he is likely doing so with a smile on his face.)

--

Infant circumcision is performed at the request of parents ostensibly for health reasons, but research reveals, and doctors acknowledge, parents’ social and aesthetic reasons. (Brown, Mark S., M.D. Circumcision Decision: Prominence of Social Concerns. Pediatrics, vol. 80, no. 2, August 1987, pp. 215-219.)

--

Annually, there are more infant deaths from infant circumcisions than deaths from cancer of the penis.

--

A major medical study by Lauman and colleagues finds slightly LOWER risks of STD`s in uncircumcised men, confirming other previous studies.

RE: Solitude

Sir,

Your sensitivity and obsession with penises is questionable.

Re: Solitude

``And we will LITERALLY forget to look at our own armpits (how many of you have ever seen an under arm deodrant)``

As an aside, we have that problem in India too. Especially Delhi. Phheeeww.

See, we have lots in common after all :)

`There are more pressing problems in the world than ``circumcision``.`

Thanks for the joke. That is the kind of Pakistani _cultural_ story telling that we need more of. We have a good ability to laugh at our own petty obsessions to laugh at our selves and I love Pakistan for that. But what other ``pressing`` problems are there besides traumatizing a child in the early stages of his life ?

You traumatize a boy in that crucial developmental stage and then you wonder why he is a sadist, why he is violent, why he is so prone to cruelty and anger and abuse ? why he is obsessed with imagined enemies like Hindus and Christians (karantas ) and Jews ?

This is ABUSE - pure and simple. This is a CRIME! We have to face that instead of going ``its just a piece of skin``. One thing I have noticed about Pakistanis: we will beat our chest over ``hai phalestine! hai chechnya! hai Iraq! hai Algeria!`` we will be very well versed with ``global events`` as interpreted by the fanatics BUT we do not care about the abuses going on under our own nose. We will talk of how ``dirty`` white people in a far off foreign, cleaner land - but we will not look at the trash floating in our own neighborhood. And we will LITERALLY forget to look at our own armpits (how many of you have ever seen an under arm deodrant)

In America the entire town hears about it if a cat is stuck in a tree ``Did you read the headlines ? oh poor kitty ... the fireman rescued it from the tree ! what a nice boy ! give it a home! give it food! I will adopt it!`` where as in Pakistan 150 people may suffocate to death in Liyari and people go ``oh Liyari!?! so what is happening to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan ?``

I mean wow! we are really humane and charitable are we not ?

The politicians use ``phalastine! iraq! chechnya! and Kashmir!`` to divert your attention away from our own problems and we know it and yet we fall for it anyways. Why ? because we know that out lives are so miserable - and the abuse we inflict on EACH OTHER is so intense that facing it will result in great personal conflict. Those who face themselves and question their religion and manifest this ``conflict`` are labeled as ``confused`` or ``westernized`` or ``americanised``.

We cannot take care of our own CHILDREN and we talk of ``western imperialism`` , ``gora log`` and ``white racists`` and lots of irrelevent nonsense.

--

For more on Child Abuse :

http://www.psychohistory.com

History of Child Abuse :

http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/05_history.html

--

Anyways - no big deal - the point was to have said something. I was not hoping that it would create any (immediate) change.

Re: scout #83

Stop citing anecdotal incidents against other religions to defend the widepsread and institutionalized violence being propogated by Islam the world over. You know it`s true...open your eyes and pick up a newspaper (not the Yawn or the Dung) or world magazine and you`ll see it.

Have a good day,

RS

Solitude:

TIME TO TICKLE YOU A LITTLE.

During the roaring & frenzied election campaign in Zulfiquar Ali Bhuttos` time,an interesting situation developed.

After a long wait a first son was born in an ordinary simple Pakistani family.

Members of each Party,Peoples` Party & the Jamaa`t e Islami,were hurling invectives and insults upon each other.They even started calling their opponents kaffirs.

Simple Ordinary Pakistani was perplexed.He was planning to get his son circumcised.Would it be a Doctor or a barber?that was the question.

He asked the imam masjid:``since every one is labelling everybody kafir in the land,who in your opinion,respected sir,is suitable to circumcise my son? A doctor or a barber.

The imam masjid replied:``Never mind either.Either is fine.Just donate the `khaal`(skin) to Jammat e Islami.!!!!!!!!!

__________________________________________________

Lighten up good guy.

``Aur bhi Ghum hain zamaanay mein iss ``sunnat`` kay sivaa.``

with profuse apologies to FAIZ.

tr:There are more pressing problems in the world than ``circumcision``.

__________________________________________________

wassalaam