Accusations against Pakistani-ness

Ayesha (in case that is your real name)

Why worry about what someone says at a wedding? Adnan could be half drunk or half mental - we dont know. But you are not any less judgemental than he was (ref: the fakely smiling aunties at the wedding where you felt out of place). So what if he expressed his opinion?

Your identity and sense of belonging should come from within you and not be based on whether someone labels you an ABCD or an FGHI (whatever that one may stand for).

I`ve lived in Pakistan and abroad and have continued my to soul search wading through a pool of poisoned opinions, vocal outbursts, and awkward glances. Have I been successful? dont know - the journey continues despite the obstacles, which if you think about it, is what makes the journey so meaningful and enriching.

Be thankful for the criticism - it got you thinking and closer to your destination.

- by the way, the story was very well written!

Bibi: I just read your ``research``, or, the ``think piece``. I am afraid that I have not followed what you are trying to say.

I grant you that it must be accepted as `a priori` that every person has the God-given right to ``think`` and, perhaps, a self-generated priviledge to ``research``. But I feel it is neither your right nor priviledge to confuse &/or disturb me by a piece of writing that gets me neither nor there. Nowhere!

One wonders if it is clear that it was not unequivocally a case of subjective ``feelings`` of being shunned, or, God forbid, spurned under the circumstances?

rsaxena #47,

I won`t retaliate and say that the definition of being Indian is to belittle Pakistan and Pakistanis at every moment. Although you fit that mold precisely, I won`t say that. It`s Indians like you that give Indians a bad name among Pakistanis. So don`t blame us when some ``jazbaati`` Pakistani expresses his/her dislike for India. So, don`t dish out dirt if you can`t handle getting it back.

scout *proud pakistani *

Ayesha,
You do not have anything to worry about in terms
of identity. As with any other country, Pakistanis
also have their self appointed spokesmen.
Ignore most of them!
In my books, you are a Pakistani if you WANT
to identify with Pakistan and feel something for
it. You can be of any religion, sect or ethnic background.

Ras

Come on guys. The definition of being a Pakistani is very clear. Hate India, demand Kashmir, and support Jehads ;)

Mundyaa,

I`m sorry to say this, but you are dreadfully wrong about your concept of ``raise your kids in pakistan.`` Wherever you raise your kids, if you, as a parent, fail, your kids will mirror your failure. Our parents teach us morals and values, with which we can make sound decisions and choices. It has nothing to do with what country we live in. I have seen as many confused kids running around in Pakistan as I have seen in the United States. THe only difference is the source of their confusion.

As for the American media corrupting young minds,

Pakistani politics and education system are equally strong sources of corruption.

In America, if a kid commits a crime, he is punished for it, no matter what his/her social status. Could you say the same for Pakistan?

I agree that kids growing up in Pakistan will have more of a sense of culture than kids growing up abroad. They are equally strong but in different respects. A child growing up in Pakistan knows what it means to live in an unstable country, not knowing whether they will have school tomorrow, or food on the table. And even so, they succeed due to their hard work and motivation.

In comparison, a child growing up abroad, has to face the difficulties of being ``different,`` has to overcome prejudice, can`t depend on ``rishwat`` to get what they want, they learn to survive in a community much different than their parents. And that is a very difficult thing to do if you don`t have proper guidance.

Eventually people learn from their mistakes wherever they live. You just cannot say that children growing up in Pakistan and not abroad will have a better life. It just doesn`t work that way.

I did not get any clue?

What you were discussing as a difference between living in Pakistan and USA and what was the response of Adnan.

Without seeing the context, it is very difficult to comment.

As far as being Pakistani, it is difficult to define.

It is somewhat reflected in posts by Farangi-Kush, Ras Siddiqui, Umair, Taimurmalik, etc etc.

All are Pakistani(I think)

Since there is no consensus or single vision, so different concepts.

A Pakistani might be blaming Pakistan with his full force even at highest level and other person with much higher voice will be labelling him traitor and presenting his own version.

Who is Pakistani then?

If you get off track by remarks of Adnan and writing about it. It is as Pakistani, as Adnan not accepting your vision and thinking you as confused.

(And in our culture women are not supposed to have independent heretic thoughts (Itni si Chokri, Do Gaz ki Zaban). It makes marriage prospects difficult as these heresy will be circulated to every nook and corner of the family)

Temporal, yes, I`ve always noticed that you encourage every writer while gently pointing out his/her mistakes. It`s better than acting holier-than-thou or heaping on the praise endlessly.

I haven`t written because, sadly, I don`t have time. I`m interning nowadays and am very busy writing for them. Writing ror a newspaper is completely different from putting your thoughts down on paper just for the heck of it. I`ll definitely be writing something soon though :)

thats the spirit ayesha!!!!

i m whole heartedly behind u.

its easy to criticise rather than live it urself.

do not worry more over this.

be happy.

i m proud of u being a pakistani:)

Good observation.I think we all have to learn more from eachother then understanding ourselves.

I can feel your pain and on the same hand his as well.Atleast you were able to explain your existance where I was not sure how would Adnan present him and his bargain. I am not sure if I am being helpful here or not, but my saying would be we should not judge eachother. Anyway, that is a very critical drawback in human nature and mostly in our culture.

So, please keep the good work going and I hope folks like Adnan would learn from it .Thanks for the experience.

Regards!

musafir.

re Omarphoenix #28

``We should be thinking about dreaming of an Islamic state and not a Pakistani state or a BDi state. ``

Please! Feel free to have your Ummah-type state but keep the Bengalis out of that dream. Didn`t quite work out last time we tried it under the Mughals. You see, the Bangladeshi psyche still doesn`t quite fit in with the pan-Islamic stuff sprouted by the Talebanis and their sponsors in Peshawar or their opponents in Tehran. So leave us out of this stuff. We will rather dream of being a progressive, democratic, and free state instead. And, yes, when you choose your Caliph make sure to give him our regards!

Omar Phoenix:

Sorry, mate. Didn`t mean to put you on the spot. I guess my question was a rhetorical one, a bit silly, as silly, I suppose, as making the comparison of caring between overseas Pakistans and resident ones. Comparing Pakistan to a woman is also a bit silly, perhaps we could look at the country as a child that needs love and nurturing and all any of us have done so far is abuse it, mentally, physically, and emotionally. No wonder it`s growing up so warped! We would only have ourselves to blame if the child grew into a serial killer one day.

Oh boy--another `whatever` article about the ABCD/World Traveller vs Pakistani war.

The real world--a lot differnet my friend. There`s no grey. There`s a definite white and black--it`s time to wake up and face the reality of it all. I grew up in Pakistan but I live in NYC and I see and live it everyday. Spare us the cry for pity Cinderella. Pakistani antics are a big farce..and if you are the thinker and a researcher, you should be able to see right through it by now.

Hey Omarphoenix--you ever think about joining the Nation of Islam? I think you`d fit right in.

FOZ

Ayesha,

I do agree with others that the repeated references of being a ``Thinker`` and a ``researcher`` were unnecessary. Let those qualities shine from your writing - not by announcing it to the world.

My 2 cents on this topic...or shall I say 2 rupees (yes paisas are the real ``cents`` but with the current exchange rate of 35 rupees/$Can. perhaps rupees is more justified...)

The question of what exactly defines a ``Pakistani`` beyond birthplace is at this time a rhetorical one. Now before all the patriotic Pakistanis flame me for this comment, I will add that it`s for the same reasons that the question of what is a Canadian is a rhetorical question. And I say this as a Canadian.

The biggest reason why is simply because both countries are relatively young. Canada has existed as a nation for barely 100 years, Pakistan- barely 50. Their cultures are still evolving and forming their identities that will make them an obviously distinct culture. This is going to take more than a few years, it`s going to take generations. Culture is more than movies and music. It`s a way of living and adhering to traditions unique to that country.

Shalwar Kameezes, Urdu and daal/korma all existed before Pakistan was born, so it isn`t truly accurate to say that this defines a ``Pakistani``.

Let the great-great-great grandchildren of today`s Pakistani residents describe what it is to be a Pakistani. The current Pakistanis residents should focus on ensuring that Pakistan as a nation still exists for their descendants to describe its culture.

Regards,

Fozia Zaidi

Sobia #32:

“Temporal, are you an editor by any chance? You`re good at it! :)”

(To answer in reverse order...)

Thanks! No!

Just hopelessly in love!

Words are a passion with me.

Words are the primary tool of communication we use life long. It saddens me when we abuse the powers inherent is us.

(I cringe in pain when I read something atrociously written.)

Sometimes, when I comment on the creative efforts here, the pain and hurt I feel may be tinged with rare bluntness; almost rudeness, one may say (---- shrug ----) but majority of times I make an extra effort to encourage, applaud and gently point towards their weaknesses or imperfections.

I can only hope my sincerity is transparent.

Would like everyone here to write better and the standards here continue to rise.

And how come you haven’t graced these pages since the maiden entry a while back?

lve,

t

Dear Mundyaa, #29

I agree with you partially. Yes Native Pakistani people have (FAR) more manners but Native Pakistanis are not better than English Pakistanis or American Pakistanis and vice versa. Pakistani`s from across the globe have different misconceptions of each other. Native Pakistanis think of their foreign cousins as corrupt and lazy who have nothing better to do. Foreign Pakistani`s think that Normal Pakistanis are Pendu and ugly. Both are misconceptions.

Your comment on marrying to Pakistanis, once again I only partially agree with you. The parents over here think that if they marry the Foreign Pakistani to a native Pakistani girl, the Pakistani girl will bring him around. I have seen lives destroyed because of this STUPID thinking. On the other side, the Foreign Pakistani parents think that foreign Pakistani boys are corrupt and so they marry their daughters to native Pakistani boys. Now here`s the problem. No native Pakistani parent wants to marry their son to a corrupt `disco dancing` Foreign Pakistani girl. Only the poor lot who have the need for British passport undergo this procedure and marry their sons who I should mention are useless idiots to the Foreign Pakistani girls. Once again, lives are destroyed. Of course there are big exceptions to this.

I have always supported arrange marriages but the essence of arrange marriages in my opinion is not dragging two people by the ears and clamping them together as some people have done. Remember that the couple must be on each other`s level and way of thinking.

What`s needed is education in one`s religion and culture. That means a lot of summer holidays to Pakistan and visiting ones relatives. Also the joint family system has to be maintained.

What matters is religion, the bubble of thought that we come into, not nationalism. By all means, listen to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan but it doesn`t mean that you are less of a Muslim if your taste is oriented towards Michael Jackson.

Take care

Omar Phoenix