Women in India: Are We Better Off?

Even the Ms. World contest is increasingly seen as viewing women as objects, not as human beings. Gandhi, I understand, said that to judge a society`s worth, see the way dogs are treated in that society. I think the way women are treated is another measure of the progress we have made towards ``insaaniyat``.

Great article. Now instead of writing these jaded articles from the comfort of your wealthy (you at least have access to a computer) position, go do something to educate the women in the rural areas of India so they can stand up for themselves. Female armchair generals! Kinda like the non-resident Pakistani fanatics in America who chant and rant for Jehads but wouldn`t risk a bullet in their own behinds...

THE REVOLUTION

The only way for women to bring a revolution is by learning Karate and Dance. Using Karate chops they can beat their rights out of men-folk. If they (women) ever find themselves in a situation where they are over-powered by these two-legged hyenas, called `men`, they can dance their way out; as shown in the movies.

Radhika,

Congratulations on writing this succinct, and balanced piece. Unfortunately, all organized religions of the world have this preposterous and absurd view of women that you allude to, and complain about in your piece. I am disappointed to learn that recent trends in Hinduism are no different to other religions in this matter. .

One would like to think that sustained democracy and India’s recent economic progress would make people realize the vital role women play in building and maintaining a prosperous and happy society. Times of economic prosperity in any society provide a window of opportunity for oppressed and down trodden sections of the society to demand for a fair and equitable share and just treatment. This is a good time for women of India to fight for, what are, their due rights.

Once again thanks for sharing your thoughts and knowledge with us.

All the best!

slink #3, ``. the dominant image (thanks to vulgar videos from terrible movies) is of a scantily clad woman with her bosom heaving prancing around a tree while a man looking suspiciously like a chimp races after her (stopping occasionaly to somersault down a flower covered slope).``

You just summarized Zee TV in one sentence. Can`t stop laughing.

Thank God Pakistani movies aren`t famous or respected, else we`d be hearing sarcastic comments about Reema`s butt shaking in tight yellow pants.

Dear Ms. Chandar

I commend you for a fascinating article. I would like to express some thoughts which came into my mind when I read the article. Firstly, the current state of women`s issues discussions, debate and research in India is fascinatingly identical to the literature in 1960`s in England and USA. I will admit that the situation is a bit further back in Pakistan. Second thought was, till when will we sub-divide our society by groups so as to raise their consiousness? Since you are most familiar with India, let me take that direction, we have groups based on farmers, OBC`s, SC`s, ST`s, linguistic based groups, culture based groups, religious based groups and so on and so forth. Each of these groups are clamouring for attention, resources and laws. What is fascinating is how a society fractures along these fault lines, and people merrily switch between groups and demand attention or resources without realizing the humour or even the inherent dichotomy. What would a policy decision maker do when confronted with such a vast variety of group based demands and having only limited resources to satisfy them with?

The third thought which popped into mind was the impact of feminism on advanced societies. In european and american societies - we have singular situations of massive divorce rates and rise of single parent families. While fully supporting rights and fair treatment of women, one does wonder as to the direction where this will lead us. My only hope would be that our societies remember that the family is the important unit and there is a delicate balance between men`s rights and women`s rights. Having seen the state of western society, one does wonder and hope that India/Pakistan does not go down that route.

Crimes against women have to be strongly fought against, there is absolutely NO excuse for any kind of crime against women, none at all, religion, society, history, economic development, nothing. This has to be stamped upon and I even call for castration for rapists and paedophiles. I wonder if the author could comment on the fascinating similarity of western feminist thinking in the 1960`s and 2000 south asian feminist thinking, then compare that with the current western feminist thinking, and what lessons does she draw from this difference?

Sincerely

bd

MEN OF INDIA, ARE THEY BETTER OF

From Indian express of today

Woman alleges gang-rape, court calls her bluff

BIRAJA MAHAPATRA

NEW DELHI, SEPT 7: Can a woman member of a family be subjected to gang-rape by three of her elderly brothers-in-law at the instance of their wives in a two-room flat occupied by 13 people including her mother-in-law and husband ?

Such an allegation levelled by a woman against members of her in-laws family came up for judicial scrutiny during a trial and was found to be ``motivated`` in the absence of any corroborative evidence.

Acquitting the three accused, J C Chawla, his brother Devender and brother-in-law Purusottam Dass Gandhi, Additional Sessions Judge B S Mathur said, ``the prosecution has failed to prove that the accused had committed rape on the prosecutrix. But the motive of involving them in this case by the woman appears to be something else``.

The Chawlas and their brother-in-law, who were government servants, were arrested by Badarpur police after the woman alleged that they on the intervening night of October seven and eight, 1998, had committed rape on her with active assitance of their wives by successfully forcing her husband to come out of the room where the offence was subsequently committed.

The court wondered ``can in a Hindu civilised family, the sons and the son-in-law afford to commit a gang-rape in a two-room flat occupied by 13 people including five grown-up wards ?`` and said ``the answer in my opinion is `No`.

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Women libbers of India, go and get a life, join the save mosquito campaign,

India and pakistan, what a comparison, from dawn of today

Though official statistics show that 28 per cent of women participate in economic activity. This figure is contested by human rights groups. A recent United Nations annual survey has put Pakistan only above Niger and Togo as far as women`s participation in national development activities is concerned. According to an HRC report, women`s participation in the formal economic sector was negligible. It was a little over five per cent of all employees in the federal public service, but in the overall public and privates sectors, it was only about two per cent.

The women work only in health, social welfare, education and communication sectors by and large. There are only 30 women in the police department in Rawalpindi. they city has only two women judges. There is no woman in the magistracy or in the district administration.

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In india there is an entire police establishment called Womens Police. It is annoying to see posts, ``Oh yeah, india and pakistan have common problems``, Yes there are problems, One is hungry waiting for the food, the other has finished food and is complaining about the matress. Have some idea about the qualitative difference, think of being killed by the family to protect honour, while the police looks the other side.

1. Brilliant article but I think I have read it either in Times of India or Pioneer. The last paragraph is the addition for Chowk. Which paper it has been published in?

2. Women of the World, unite. You have nothing to lose except horrible men. (My husband happens to be a Gem.)

3. When a man hits you, hit him back ten times more and also with more force.

4. By the way, comparison of Dahibhalla and Kababs in Delhi and Karachi was relative. That is ‘better then’ and not ‘best’. Similarly, status of women in India is better then that in Pakistan but nowhere in comparison with Scandinavian countries.

5. To the best of my knowledge and that is pretty good because I have worked in this field of women development, these scriptures are no longer quoted in public or private life to lower women’s status. Rather most of the people are not even aware of these pearls of wisdom. As for Gita Press and its publication, the Hindi therein is so difficult that like me, most of the people may find the whole thing too boring.

6. At present, status of women is so low not because of religion but because of social conditioning that came from scriptures ages ago. Since, such saying in scriptures have lost importance over time, efforts should be made to change the mentality of men. Anyway, Manu who has written disparagingly about women at some places have also glorified women in his writings. Same is the case with other books.

7. Since problems of women are same in South Asia, why not have a Women’s Forum here in Chowk and fights are diverted on gender based injustice rather then religion?

India and Pakistan have so much in common, we have the same problems, and we fight each other instead of fighting the problems.
as a woman, i`d like to be able to claim the benign `value of life` perspective as something instrinsicly female. but i can`t. we can blame the dismal state of womens rights as a product of a patriarchal soceity but a lot of women are key players in the maintainance of the status quo. take the example of burn victims. in a significant percentage of the cases the mother in law or sister in law was also involved. sometimes, they helped hold the woman down while kerosene was poured over her. and waited, with the man involved, till she died or her condition deteriorated to the point that she could be taken to the hospital in safety with no danger of her living to tell the tale. we woman, we`ve developed the bad habit of yearning to pass on our bitterness to our daughters and reacting viciously when they show signs of wanting to break free. `i went through it` thinks a mother trapped in a bad marriage `so why can`t she?` as she pushes her daughter into lowering her expectations.
i`m not saying women aren`t victims. i`m suggesting a closer look at the silent perpetrators of cruelty. `boys will be boys` might well translate into `men will be men` as we grow older, but when will women change their own definitons of what it means to be a woman?
the literature the author mentions is indeed scary. but those people have as much right to voice their opinions as the liberals do. to some, our pleas for `freedom and equal rights` are scandalous and threaten the very fabric of soceity. to us, their demands for `put them in thier place and batter them if necessary` are dangerous and threaten our lifestyles. they have the right to their opinion. as long as they dont try and enforce it through violent means (which they sometimes do, and should be painfully punished for). the notion of freedom of speech cant be selectively applied. if you want to fight something like that, the approach should be to flood the market with books suggesting an alternative lifestyle, and let adult women who can read be aware of their options and responsible for the path they choose to follow.
the indian media (depsite the hype surrounding it on another articles interact section) might also be culpable for the way things are. half naked woman here, half naked woman there, sari clad traditional patni here, pious mother in law there, and another dozen half naked women thrown in for good measure. the dominant image (thanks to vulgar videos from terrible movies) is of a scantily clad woman with her bosom heaving prancing around a tree while a man looking suspiciously like a chimp races after her (stopping occasionaly to somersault down a flower covered slope). does anybody else see a connection between that and the objectification of women? that, in conjunction with the hardline literature and fanatical religous edicts you mention creates a fractured psyche that doesn`t distinguish between male or female but is simply a genderless mass of frustration, confusion and alienation.
blame does not lie with the male species alone, and it does not lie solely with the female either. we fail as human beings.

As the person who started the Great Kabab Controversy, so scathingly mentioned by you at the end of your otherwise lucid article, I would like to state in my defence, pso-facto, that:-

a) I have been born to a mother, had three sisters, now have a wife and a daughter. I now try y best to employ more women. I`ve ``done`` most of India and the world, and not superficially either. Through my eyes and theirs, I feel matters have improved for women, especially the middle class urban and semi-urban, more than matters have improved for Indian society as a whole, coterminus with a few factors like education and economical emancipaion.

b) But never mind the educated middle class. Look now at the so-called uneducated lower classes also, both rural and urban. Wife-beating in slums is no longer looked upon as the prerogative of the husband, the other women (and often men) fix the wife-beater quite well.

c) That women have it better especially in the ``B`` cities can be judged by a simple exposure to towns like Chandigarh, Indore, Pune, Vijaywada, Coimbatore, even Guahati.

d) Locations where religion or lack of education rears a head, like Srinagar, Patna, even Lucknow, are, agreed, sad cases. But that is for society as a whole.

e) So who tends to deprive Indian women, then?

One possible answer is that only those who can afford to, do so. The ultra-rich, conservative or liberal, tarred with the same brush, view women as a threat to their male succession theories. We can hardly blame society for this, can we, for the sins of the ultra-rich industrialists, politicians or ``ye olde families``? Applicable worldwide.

Areas where, traditionally, women are treated like animals, the Meos, some parts of Rajasthan and many parts of UP & Bihar. Applicable worldwide.

Religions where women do not have the same rights as men. Here, I think, all the major religions are equally guilty, the difference being only in degree. All religions give prime position to men. Muslim maulvis, Hindu pujaris, Christian priests, Sikh Bhaiyas, Jewish rabbis . . . eceptions apart, what does religion really do for women? Applicable worldwide.

So why blame me for kababs when you seem to have no reason to single out Indian women?

By the way, as a small aside, I come from the Merchant Navy, probably the last male bastion. A batchmate of mine took command of the TS Chanakya a few years ago and as the entrance exam was on par with the IIT JEE, found himself with the option of taking women cadets for both navigation and engineering branches. Well, over much resistance and not much support from any of the women`s organisations, he did so.

After they passed out, and he really had to ake sure they didn`t give uphalf-way either, he had another battle trying to get suitable employment for them. Again, every shipping company is ``manned`` by men. Here again it was the old-tie network of batchmates that worked, all men.

Now some of these ladies command ships abroad and possibly in India, too.

So was that an effort by men or by women or by both?

Yes, I am proud of the Indians who are breaking out. Gender is not relevnt.

80% of all Indians go through misery and more. Let us work towards moving all of them up, no? Who gives a billy-oh about 3 girls going for Miss World, nobody measures India by that yardstick.

Wow Radhika,

This is what I call a ``dood ka dood, paani ka paani`` type of article. You provided a fair, and broad-minded account of the subordination of women

by men. Thank you. This is one of the most balanced and to the point articles I`ve read on Chowk in a long time.

It`s unfortunate how the Muslim and Hindu male fanatics have twisted religion to suit their egos and superiority complexes.

Although educated women can break free from this subordination, my heart breaks at the thought of the helpless poverty stricken, illiterate women of Pakistan and India who face these problems everyday.

I still stand by my belief that men (except for t-bhai and some others) are the most evil animals

in the world. Maybe if men bore children, they would realize the importance of human life.