Aap Amrika Main Hotay Hain?? (Do You Live In America)

Sadhna #186

You said rightly that whole world has a hidden agenda as far as Pakistan is concerned.

But they have their own methods, multi million dollars and sites to deal with this.

If you are thinking that you want to utilize this forum for the same purpose, you are doing great disservice to everyone here who come to discuss with open heart (and closed minds:)- ) without any hidden agendas.

Thanks Pankaj

Omar Phoenix

RE: Sadna

Who said that I am a man. I am just a gal like you and also yours truly.

fairdinkum #184
``blanket statements are always risky business.``
``Since you claim to be so well informed about state of affairs in Pakistan``

Tell me when have I claimed to be ``so well-informed about the state of affairs in Pakistan``. I even said in my post #179 I have been following newspapers for only an year. Please watch YOUR OWN blanket statements.

As for hidden agendas, I believe the whole world has a hidden agenda where Pakistan is concerned. Add Ms sadna on a puny discussion board to the long list of injustices that Pakistanis have to bear :-).

I agree with the rest of what you say, though.

Sadhana

Urstruly #185
I wish YOU were man enough to argue with something other than personal remarks.

Sadhana

RE: Sadna

Wow again!

Instant reply within minutes. wow. You can make an ideal pen pal. I wish you were a gal:)

re sadhana

``I am yet to hear a single chowk Pakistani or see a single item in a Pakistani newspaper speak about the Lahore bus trip as a welcome step toward peace``

LAHORE BUS TRIP, WITH ALL ITS PITFALLS, AND SHORTCOMINGS WAS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION! A SYMBOLIC GESTURE OF DESIRE FOR PEACE IN THE SUBCONTINENT… BOTH THE ELECTED LEADERS DESERVE PRAISE FOR THIER EFFORTS, WHICH MADE LAHORE BUS DIPLOMACY POSSIBLE. IT GAVE BIRTH TO A RAY OF HOPE (HOWEVER SHORT LIVED).

A chowk Pakistani :)

As for positive reviews/coverage of the Lahore bus diplomacy in Pakistani media…are you sure about your claim?

An overwhelming (silent) majority in Pakistan wants peace... Since you claim to be so well informed about state of affairs in Pakistan, please distinguish between the rhetoric of extremists and ``Pakistanis``...blanket statements are always risky business... of course; India is currently streets ahead of us in many areas – this may include freedom of speech, freedom of expression and so on. However, the policies adopted by government of Pakistan are not necessarily representative of aspirations of majority of Pakistani citizens. Also, you must understand the repercussions of events such as 1971 and kargil on the psyche of ordinary people of both the countries… who was at fault is not my point here… we have both burned some bridges… we must build some new ones... it’s a slow painful process… be patient.. there is always hope...

re tahmed321

On the concert thing, I disagree with you… whether you like it or not, Pakistan is way behind India as far as freedom of expression is concerned. Watching Indian movies in security and comfort of your living room in Pakistan is not the same as the concert you recently attended.

The problem sadhana is referring to is that extremist elements have been gaining strength and power whereas ordinary peace loving citizens of Pakistan are loosing ground at a rapid rate.

Even if Sadhana has some hidden agenda behind her comments, shouldn’t we be concerned about this alarming situation in Pakistan? Are you not concerned about the deteriorating law and order situation? Are you not worried about the sectarian violence in Punjab? Are you not disturbed by the alarming increase in feelings of alienation and dissatisfaction in smaller provinces of Pakistan?

Urstruly #180

When krashid is abusive and Urstruly calls me a spy, I`ve really made a point. You seem to be really busy these days, else why the delay?

Sadhana

sadna, you write ``If you are fooling yourself that organisations like Lashkar-e-Toiba are harbingers of peace and harmony, keep them safe on your side of the border. I do believe we are practically in a state of war and I condemn all Pakistanis including yourself who perpetuate it with their feigned disconnect from the hard realities in their own country.``

Re-read post #106 from me where I write that such organizations are indeed a threat not just to India but to Pakistan, and call upon Pakistanis to fight them in whatever way they can. In your post #110 you even expressed you appreciation of this view.

This, to any reasonable person, should indicate that you are wrong in your above closing statement of your previous post.

Anyway, I am sorry that I used harsh words in my previous post and you are entitled to your opinions. I bear no ill-will towards you (or anyone else on chowk) as individuals and wish you all the best in your real life endeavors.

Omarphoenix

As far as I remember, you do not really require a birth certificate. A ration card or a high school certificate with your date of birth will be fine. In the final stage, your place of residence is checked by the person who delivers the passport.

Cheers

RE: Sadna # 179

wow
I am quite impressed the way you handle two full time jobs. Arnt you a little busy bee.

tahmed321 #178
You seem to have missed this article posted by mohajir.
http://jang.com.pk/thenews/nov2000-daily/03-11-2000/oped/o4.htm
Hating and aping India
Also read
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm
Dawn Nov 4th
Also read Mazdak`s column of the previous week.

I have read a number of articles in the past condemning observances such as Basant. I have heard that Indian artistes(at least film artistes) are banned from performing in Pakistan. I did hear about qawwals coming over on the Lahore bus, I don`t know if there were reverse visits.

You say ``This is rubbish. The trip was welcomed with a sigh of relief by the public in Pakistan and in India.``

This is not rubbish. I am yet to hear a single chowk Pakistani or see a single item in a Pakistani newspaper speak about the Lahore bus trip as a welcome step toward peace in the last year(since Kargil) that I have been following the newspapers. All I have heard are condemnations of Indian leaders and Pakistani leaders from Pakistanis. You may not agree but there is more than adequate basis for what I am saying.

You say
``you write: ``No self-respecting party in Pakistan speaks of peace with India in its primary
`manifesto` unless it wants to sink without a trace.``
That is true. Dont forget that the same is true for India. ``

It is NOT the same in India. And I said so too :``In contrast, in India, the Pakistan policy is not a significant or central theme or `differentiator` of any mainstream political party. And most parties agree that the ultimate goal is detente and not perpetual confrontation.

Tit-for-tat, ``we are equally at fault`` just doesnot work on this point, tahmed. Major political parties and leaders in India always rally behind the government of the day`s main thrust(though they may disagree on specifics) when it comes to Pakistan or Kashmir. As far as Pakistan is concerned, theres always been talk in the Indian public discourse of reaching a settlement, noone fools themselves that perpetuating confrontation is going to do India any good. As since we donot have a millstone of TNT, peace with Pakistan can be spoken of freely without being labelled a traitorous activity.

We are certainly getting nowhere with this discussion and I am happy to end it here. If you are fooling yourself that organisations like Lashkar-e-Toiba are harbingers of peace and harmony, keep them safe on your side of the border. I do believe we are practically in a state of war and I condemn all Pakistanis including yourself who perpetuate it with their feigned disconnect from the hard realities in their own country.

Sadhana

sadna,

you write:

``was it (concert) held in Pakistan?`` No, in the US.

you write: ``Can you say categorically that such a concert could have been easily held and enjoyed by more than the suited-and-booted class of people in Pakistan without throwing up a huge storm of issues and allegations?`` Yes I can. Indian movies has always been enjoyed by Pakistanis, and Indian music, for the past 50 years and no one has ever made an issue out it in Pakistan. Doesnt this tell you that you really dont understand Pakistan as well as you think you do?

you write: ``That was the whole problem with initiatives like the Lahore bus trip...Pakistanis including Sharif who engaged in these sympathetic parleys were seen to be unrepresentative traitors out to make deals with the devil for their own selfish benefit.``

This is rubbish. The trip was welcomed with a sigh of relief by the public in Pakistan and in India. Only the hate-mongers (the Jamaat in Pakistan and the RSS in India) opposed the trip. You can either pay attention to the general public in the two countries, or to the hate-mongers.

you write: ``No self-respecting party in Pakistan speaks of peace with India in its primary `manifesto` unless it wants to sink without a trace.``

That is true. Dont forget that the same is true for India. Indo-Pak hostility indicates the lack of statesmanship among politicians in either country. Maybe you need to make two clones of Mahatma Gandhi, and put one in charge of India and one of Pakistan, and peace will flourish in no time.



you write: ``stereotypes of Indian/Hindu flavor which abound on this board and even in Pakistani newspapers strike you as not being stereotypes but true to life?``

Stereotyping of Indians does not strike me as true to life. People who stereotype Indians are just as ignorant, fearful and unrealistic in their thinking as people who stereotype Pakistanis.

you write: ``I have a real problem with Pakistani citizens within Pakistan and abroad funding other citizens to kill innocents in Kashmir and to build mansions on the strength of it and over it all...As someone said to me recently, for all practical puposes, we are already in a state of war. ``

Fine. We are getting nowhere in this discussion, and I leave you to sit with like-minded Indians and exercise your imaginations about expatriate Pakistanis sending money to kill innocents in Kashmir.

I condemn people like you (whether Indian or Pakistani) who talk lightly of war from the safety of your comfortable homes, and satisfy your emotional need to create stereotypes of evil people across the border, while hundreds of millions of poor people in the subcontinent are suffering from the many tortures inflicted by poverty, and soldiers from poor families in both countries do the dying.

Lubna #174 Thanks. I`ll shall be on the lookout for this album next time I go to the store.

McGupta #172

Amen!

Dear all,

My apologies for butting in but I would be grateful if any one could provide me with info on how an Indian born would go about applying for a passport. The challenge, the Indian born is 27, has no documentation such as birth certificate etc and is resident in Mumbai. No info is useless so anything such as going to Municipal corporation on such and such road is even better…and no, I`m not getting up to anything funny.

Many thanks for all the help.

I`d be grateful if you could reply on Omarphoenix@aol.com

Omar Phoenix

tahmed321 #167:

[Is Ustad Sultan Khan well known in India? I understand he played with Ravi Shankar, and also played music for the film industry and the stage in India.]

Thought you might be interested - just got his new album - ``Piya Basanti`` - he has collaborated with various artists for some of the pieces in this album as well - have found it good listening so far.