A Different Story

ylh:

pssst... and you still havn`t revealed what`s a strawman fallacy...

Re: Viking #121

Hahahaha. You see, besides being an economist, ylh is also a a poet, historian, political activist (note his upcoming Kashmir rally at the UN), mathematician, archeaologist, geneticist (he has performed his own DNA tests to trace his ancestry back to Muhammad), and a theologist.

Re: scout

Didn`t you promise not to talk to me a couple of weeks ago for a few months? Please don`t get my hopes up like that and then crush them, Ms. Maulana.

Pankaj #116
The point being made by the author is getting underlined, that there is plenty of domestic dialogue within Pakistan required for even an acceptance of status quo.

Ras #83 says
The reality on the ground is a dangerous stalemate (your status quo).The negotiating table is the only answer, unless you guys are waiting for America to come to your rescue there.
(end quote)

Rescued from what, is one question to ask, btw.

CE Pervez Musharraf says(in addition to your quote #113 )
Q. You requested international mediation of the UN Aren`t you concerned that just because of India`s reputation as a democratic country, (``the greatest democracy in the world``) This mediation will tilt in favour of India because its a democracy?

A. Well, we have demanded mediation, but mediation does not mean that we will automatically accept whatever the mediator concludes even if it is wrongfully tilting to the other side. We will certainly not accept it.
(end quote)

Then there are some more views on this issue in Pakistan:
http://www.frontierpost.com.pk/main.asp?id=20&date1=10/31/2000

``...ISLAMABAD - The speakers here at a seminar addressed by religious scholars belonging to Islamic movements throughout the world, mainly emphasized that the governments of the Muslim countries must discharge their religious obligations towards liberation of Palestine, Kashmir and Chechnya ...``
``.. [JI chief] Qazi said it was the religious duty of the Muslim leaders to remove the misunderstandings among the people and play their pivotal role apprising them that Kashmir, Chechnya and Israel have never been the part of India, Russian and Palestine respectively....``

This are samples of those who consider themselves `reasonable` and `moderate`. Before saying `come to the negotiating table`, one must agree among oneselves an identifiable negotiating position. Here it seems a case of `tukka` or what can Pakistanis force others to concede through force and at all other times its `the last guy who speaks, speaks our position`. I can`t see how any negotiation will be anything but futile. Maybe Ferozk can throw some light.

Sadhana

Ras @110:

[But it is India that has been the unreasonable party in this conflict thus far...

Pakistan`s support to them cannot be stopped easily. And with that support India cannot crush this movement no matter how long it takes.]

Ohhfo, how many more such pearls you have up your sleeves ras ? won`t you ever get sick and bored of your own (countrymen`s) programmed monologue ? i said my opinion on this article on posting 69. may be you haven`t read it, i don`t care.

put down that stupid mask of reasonableness and be aware of the reality. the truth is so simple: both of us want to own the land of kashmir. Period. india has something to show to back up its claim on the land - the instrument of accession signed with so-and-so (put aside its legal validity mumbo-jumbo... it is not relevant here). and you don`t even have a toilet paper to do a tit-for-tat claim. so, what have you cooked up ? you have taken the bowel of religion, put the un resolutions in it, mixed it up with self-determination crap and added oppression/suppression/depression blah-blah and made a horrific dish which the whole world finds obnoxious and repelling. pity you don`t even realize it and keep on thrusting this rubbish served in jehadic plate into the rest of the world`s nose.

lets get back to the basics for once. all that you require is this: you guyz need a document signed by some kashmiri representative, on the basis of which you could openly stake claim to all of kashmir territory. (again, put aside its legal validity mumbo-jumbo... it is not relevant here). then you will really be on a level playing ground with india. we have the one signed by maharaja and you too will have one signed by xxxxxx. that`s it. we`ll have an even contest.

Question is can you find a single kashmiri representative who trusts you enough to do this for you today ? APHC ? Hizb ? or even the AJK premier ? No ras NO. you know what ?. you could rather find ways to cook up a fake document and claim it to be real rather than carry on with the above stinking dish.

Do whatever. get a goddamn document and come out to the open and say that you claim the whole godforsaken land. after that, when we refer to kashmir problem we would MEAN the same damn thing.

Jay

You are the one who needs to quit. I believe that I got through to the chowk staff. They are putting up all my posts.

Humsab,

Yes that would explain why I have always excelled in Courses and none of your countrymen have been able to challenge me so far... and that too with minimal studying.

I tell you, India is indulging in self delusions. Try visiting Pakistan and you will see what I mean.

Rsaxena,

Ignore!

Pakistan Zindabad

Re: Humsab #133

Let me another important difference to your list:

h) Pakistanis don`t like to elect their own leaders and like to be told what to do by the neighborhood Mullah and a 1400-year old story book. In India, we`ll be damned if we let anyone tell us what we can drink, wear, watch, or say.

I know Rsaxena that English is not the big thing with Indians ... but there is no such thing as a theologist.. the word I believe is different ... theologian.... !

This is only for the ylh who continually sings about the proper treatment of Sikhs, Hindus or Ahmediyas in Pakistan. Had the states of Bengal, and Punjab gone to Pakistan, these jihadis would have completely wiped out the minorities of the other religion. While Muslims in India have actually grown from 7-8% to 13%, the minorities have come down from 6-7% to 3% in Pakistan. The plight of the seven Hindu families returned from Pakistan(Sind) who vehementally say, ki ``ab to humari laash hi Pakistan jayegi`` is proof of their treatment. They say they were forced by Mullas to either convert or face persecution. Following is a link to how jihadi Mullas treat Ahmediyas.

http://www.dawn.com/2000/11/01/ed.htm#2



``

Simply unpardonable

ON MONDAY morning when the Ahmadis gathered together at a place which they could not any longer call a mosque, to offer their prayers in a village in Sialkot, a couple of over-zealous `Muslims` opened fire on them, killing five people and grievously injuring twice as many. A press note issued by the district magistrate, Sialkot, said blandly that the victims were `Qadianis` and that all the wounded in the assault were in precarious condition. They had been moved to a `safer place` by the district administration, the press note added. This is not the first instance when the Ahmadis have been subjected to inhuman treatment by a majority which thinks that, for whatever reasons it considers are plausible, the Ahmedis are outside the pale of Islam and that they must, therefore, be put to the sword.

The Ahmadis were anyhow declared a non-Muslim minority by a constitutional amendment under the late Zulfikar Ali Bhutto in the seventies. He claimed privately that he had taken this step to `save` the Ahmadis from being massacred en masse. How has this helped? Nearly 25 years have passed and intolerance against the minorities has gone on with unabated malevolence.

It is not the Ahmadis alone who have been at the receiving end of the majority`s `largesse`. The Christians, too, have had a bitter taste of `tolerance` to which the majority is committed by the very faith it professes. We find no words strong enough to condemn the unpardonable crime that has been committed against the hapless Ahmadis in a remote village in Sialkot district. It is time the government woke up to protect and preserve the constitutionally-guaranteed rights of the minorities to profess their faiths in whatever manner they deem fit. The right to religious freedom is not negotiable in any civilized society. Nor can it be abridged in any manner whatsoever. It is now for the government to stand up and be counted among the defenders of basic rights guaranteed by Islam and also by the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

``

Humsab

Just a minor correction. It is ``Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam``. Translating literally, it means that all the beings on the earth(called vasudha in Sanskrit) form our family. Vasudev is another name for Sri Krishna.

Sincerely

krahid @120:

[Is this a joke or you treat people the same way.]

Neither. it was just an expression of e-anguish. don`t trouble yourself trying to make out what it is. i didn`t expect you to understand it anyway.

[I was only reading atrocities by Hindus on Muslims in India. Do they plan to do it in US also.]

where on earth from are you bringing in this religion crap here ? take your hindu/muslim BS and shove it you-know-where.

RSaxena @135:

... and a dramatist, a philosopher, an entertainer and chowk`s resident spammer...

oh btw, be prepared with ``The General Idiots`` by Gen.Idi Amin. you might be urged to read it to know more about him anytime soon...

India would have been up sh__ creek if Pakistan had not responded to Indian nuclear tests in 1998 with its own nuclear tests. In international diplomacy, Pakistan would have had a bigger advantage than India has today, had Pakistan held off from nuclear testing.

All the hot talk after the Indian N-tests was calculated, IMO, to tip the balance and make Pakistan test.

-arun gupta

Mahatma Gandhi on cow-slaughter :

``The greater the pressure put upon the Mussalmans the greater must be the slaughter of the cow. We must leave them to their own sense of honour and duty. And we shall have done the greatest service to the cow.``

``I make bold to assert without fear of contradiction that it is not Hinduism to kill a fellowman even to save the cow.``

In contrast :

``Cow-slaughter in India is a great Islamic practice - (said) Mujaddid Alaf Saani II. This was his far-sightedness that he described cow-slaughter in India as a great Islamic practice. It may not be so in other places. But it is definitely a great Islamic act in India because the cow is worshipped in India. If the Muslims give up cow-slaughter here then the danger is that in times to come the comming generations will be convinced of the piety of the cow.``



This is an excerpt from the speech made by none other than the Chairman of our Muslim Personal Law Board, Mr Ali Mian, delivered to a congregation of Indian and Pakistani Muslims in Jeddah on April 3, 1986 (during the Haj pilgrimage).

-arun gupta

Yes, that is the CE for you -- we want mediation, but will accept what the mediator says only if it is favorable to us.

Far more honest is the Indian stand that it does not want mediation.

-arun gupta

Dear Muslims/Pakistanis

esp.YLH,Urstruly,Krashid,Scout

Where is farungikush? why do we have to suffer such internal-memo kind of gobbledygook, the stuff for rags like `Time` or `Newsweek` & other such west-touting ``factoids``(No irony meant or intended).

I think the Indoos are having a relapsed case of the ``Thousand-year-Itch``