A Long Night’s Odyssey

re Sameer #29:

There is a difference between being popular and being electable. The two don`t necessarily go together. Imran Khan is a good example. I agree with you when you say that mullahs are not popular in Pakistan. However they are not exactly hated either. You can go to any public department in Pakistan and invariably the people that are considered somewhat honest will be the bearded ones. Same thing with other professional ranks. Look at the armed forces or educational institutions and a lot of them hold positions of prominence which in most cases is earned on merit. People may not give their daughter`s hands to these guys but in the kind of power vaccum that exists with all alternatives having been exhausted, the public may not really OPPOSE mullah rule.

Its difficult to make comparisons with earlier times but I think the situation in Pakistan is more like Germany post world war 1 rather than pre 1789 as Feroze proposes. With most public institutions discredited and the humiliation in Kargil looming large this is the perfect opportunity for the mullahs to do a Nazi makeover. All they need is a Feuhrer with the right fury. Whether he will come from Model Town or Dera Ismail Khan only time will tell.

Regards

-sac

``...A Veerappan won`t go scot free in Pakistan``

It depends. Untill recently, Veerappan`s baap was the Prime Minister of Pakistan.

Krashid:#33

You wrote:``I agree with the thrust of your post`` and then you go in a spiel which totally contradicts yourself.

Now pray tell, which `thrust` it was that elicited a nod of agreement from you.

``kiss hurf pey thoo nay goshay lubb,aye jaane jahan ghamaaz kiya

izhaar-e junoon dil vaalon ney ubb kay baa hazaar andaaz kiya``

You know who

It is my belief that parading around skeletons(`history`,`political analysis`--what a LAUGH!) and unveiling of mummies(`Quaid. said this Quaid meant that`, kind of nonsense) accomplishes much for those looking ahead.In certain cases,like when a house is on fire,there is no time even to turn around and look back.

(`historical`(whatever that is) analysis,academic gobledygookery,and `political analysis` are ``luxuries`` which do not become of a nation which is surrounded by bill collectors.The seniors in such a household(read:LEADERS--westernised ones) should be looking for any menial job to pay off the debt rather than sending their off-spring(read:AWAM) to send money back home by working for the Jageerdars(USA).

_________________________________________ It is not very prudent to call ones` self `Progressive` anymore,one sounds very ancient.Socialism is `history` and commies are kaput.A few are bobbing here and there with painted faces and trying to tickle the world by re-packaging themselves `liberal`,`secular`,`humanist` and whatnot.They are a minor nuisance and they can do no harm.Why? because their life & lifestyle is not defined.They always keep their options open and have an iron-will to surrender to fashion & fad.

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PS:I do not belong to any party,jamaat or sect.I do not consider any party(in the world) to be worth it.Such `system`,to me,is nonsense.

I am muslim and I know my kalima.Do you think it was ok for you to ask me to recite it for you?I will if you insist!

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WASSALAAM

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Feroz,

A.O.A.

Thank you for a truly meditative piece. We should be passionate in our anguished cries – you have displayed a soul in despair.

We all are.

Many years ago, another anguished soul rent his heart out with this paean of sorrow and guilt by association:

“NEW YEARS EVE 1972

Torn and bleeding my country lies

With tortured breadth it slowly dies,

Its face scarred with blood and hate

It marches to its unknown fate.

The sons of soil in alien land

Chained together hand in hand,

With shackled feet and praying hearts

Are taken from us, oh! So far apart.

In jails and camps they wither away

Counting every moment, waiting each day,

When they will be free to fight again,

When their honour they will regain.

While in the East the earth is red,

For every patriot white-hot lead

Or pointed bayonets tear their heart apart,

Like Pakistan is torn in bits and parts.

The year is gone, the sun is set,

Each evil with its reward is met.

The year is happy it is going away

For it could not stand one more day.

The sun is set, here comes the night

Full of glamour and sparkling lights;

Drowned are the sorrows in dance and wine,

A defeated nation drinks and dines

While mothers wait and children moan,

And widows with grief weep and mourn.

Some have cause to be happy and gay,

And greet with laughter the New Year’s Day.”

--Zia Ul Islam Zuberi, 31st December 1971

I have always been an optimist. I have a major stake in seeing my beloved Nation/State rise like the Phoenix from the ashes that Zia Ul Islam has portrayed.

We all have to share much blame for the mess we have made of a dream-come-true.

Most of the posts on your article so far, have shown that there are many believing Souls like me – and with such intrepid fervour on display, can we not hope for a better tomorrow?

But – I have to put MY shoulder also to the wheel, toil for the future, and BELIEVE!

Give Gen Musharraf some leeway: the prophets of doom and gloom will rue their pessimism and welcome the basant of the better tomorrow.

“Full many a gem of purest ray serene,

The dark unfathomed caves of ocean bear”

Insha Allah.

Regards,

Mateen

dost-mittar,

Wow! Is that what Pakistanis should base their pride & happiness upon--whether you are better off than Indians?!

Rajanjua,

{{But religion cannot be the basis of a national identity. Islam exists and should exist only on a personal/spiritual level.}}

I agree with you. Let me go a little further. Many Arabs wanted a single ``Arab`` nation, based on their Arabic background. They tried & failed. Ultimately,human beings will find unique ways to divide themselves, rather than rally behind a single entity. In the same vein, the RSS`s stupid attempt to try & define Hindutva (whatever that means) is an excercise in futility & doomed to failure.

Pakistan is a distinct, separate nation because it exists--period. Because it exists, it has its own identity. That should be reason enough.

OmarPhoenix 26,

``Would it be foolish or childish or even just a plain rhetoric to say that foreign Muslims of Pakistani origin (with something substantial to add, be it scholars, business folk artists, economists, engineers, lawyers, historians, etc etc``

Are foreign non-muslims of Pakistani origin less Pakistani? I dont think your compatriots on this forum will support that contention...perhaps it was an oversight on your part.

dost-mittar 32, Comparing against India may be a feel good factor but 53 years of doing it has taken Pakistan nowhere. Focus on the positive and let it grow, and let India do the same.

RE: Shankar

Since you mentioned it, guess who was selling LSD and pot-and people call ME nuts:)

Of Course, Pakistanis can hope against hope!

With people like F. R. Khan, Bilal Ahmad, P. Hoodhboy, Rehan Ansari, Solitude (Pat on your Back), Ayaz Amir, Irfan Hussain, Anees Jillani and Dr. Saleem and that cute, intelligent kid Yasser (I admire your self control) etc. etc. etc. still thinking and analysing issues dispassionately without bringing God and his verdicts in every matter of existence, there is HOPE.

Best of Luck

Sherdil #21

Aren`t you one of a millions of Pakistani.

Urstruly,

{{Virus is a die hard animal. This animal grew up in pot smoke filled ``baithaks`` of good-for-nothing rebels-without-a-cuase Commies.}}

Hmmm KGB plot eh? Engineer sahib, methinks you have been long bitten by another virus--paranoia :)

Take 2 haldols & call me in the morning.

PS--Thanks for not blaming RAW, though--

PM,

Thanks for the link. Yes Ayaz is incomparable.

I think what Pakistan reeaaly needs is the Indian cricket team to tour there. Nothing like boosting national morale than kicking the crap out of the Indians. Unfortunately, GOI became aware of that & promptly nixed it. Damn those Indians.

Farangi-Kush #23

I agree with the thrust of your post.

As far as Iran is concerned, the revolution was brought by Shia intellectuals (and Shia Islam is as far away from Sunni Islam as North and south)and now an anti revolution is going on.

As far as Malaysia is concerned, ask Islamic parties there. They will tell you how Islamic or un-Islamic Mohatir Mohammed and his Government is.

Sloagener like you are a blot. Spreading lies in the name of Islam neither makes it true nor Islamic. But bigot only aka Jamat-e-Islami.

As far as history of Sunni Islam and Ulema is concerned, their prototype is Saudi Arabia. And expect them to sell the wishes of people at the hands of usurpers in the name of Islam. Expect them to support genocide of Bengalis in the name of Islam. Except them to suppress the rights of people by strengthening Zia-ul-Haq in the name of Islam. What are you talking about. You are forced to write a thing which is historically against your wishes. It is the victory of people you are loathing on this board. And your defeat. It is the vistory of progressives that even Jamat-e-Islami a traditional supporter of usurper is putting up the slogans of rights of people.

Either you are too young to not witness history in Pakistan, in which case you should read history rather than slogans. Or you are too old to be unable to accept anything new, for which ``Juz Marg Ilaaj Neest``

If you are a Muslim tell me what is the Kalma.

Stop talking big and projecting yourself in the name of Islam.

Let me tell you one Hadith. Prophet PBUH said that there will come a time, when people will be talking big (like you) about religion and they will have no religion.

Be afraid of God. That is Islam. Sloagening and falsehood in the name of Islam is not.

``Until we don’t think of ourselves as Muslims first and then Pakistanis, the ball will not start rolling.``

This mentality has cost Pakistanis the most. For the last 50 years they have not been able to define themselves as Pakistani nationals because of these idiotic pan-Islamic concepts. Palestine matters more than Kashmir.

``First of all, a truly Islamic rule does not exist in Pakistan or probably anywhere else and sadly, the Pakistani masses are not educated in it, which means that even if there were an Islamic rule, it would be abused by the powerful.``

And what exactly is Islamic rule. Who defines it. You? the ulema? if ulema, then which one? The sunnis, shias or the two dozen different sub-sects within the 4 major thoughts within sunnis.

``We are Muslims. This is our identity because only Islam can lay claims to being both a spiritual and political force. Other religions only exist on the personal/spiritual level.``

Yes, we are Muslims. But religion cannot be the basis of a national identity. Islam exists and should exist only on a personal/spiritual level. You need to get your ass out of the middle ages when the Christians learnt the hard way that political power and religion should not mix.

``Until we don’t think of ourselves as Muslims first and then Pakistanis, the ball will not start rolling.``

This mentality has cost Pakistanis the most. For the last 50 years they have not been able to define themselves as Pakistani nationals because of these idiotic pan-Islamic concepts. Palestine matters more than Kashmir.

``First of all, a truly Islamic rule does not exist in Pakistan or probably anywhere else and sadly, the Pakistani masses are not educated in it, which means that even if there were an Islamic rule, it would be abused by the powerful.``

And what exactly is Islamic rule. Who defines it. You? the ulema? if ulema, then which one? The sunnis, shias or the two dozen different sub-sects within the 4 major thoughts within sunnis.

``We are Muslims. This is our identity because only Islam can lay claims to being both a spiritual and political force. Other religions only exist on the personal/spiritual level.``

Yes, we are Muslims. But religion cannot be the basis of a national identity. Islam exists and should exist only on a personal/spiritual level. You need to get your ass out of the middle ages when the Christians learnt the hard way that political power and religion should not mix.

sac (#9): I agree with you and Feroz about the real danger of Mullahs one day taking over Pakistan. Since I am one of those who have argued about the unpopularity of Mullahs; I would like to present the basis of my opinion.

The fear of Mullahs taking over in Pakistan, in my opinion, is not because they are or will become popular but for their backing from some of the most powerful forces in Pakistan.

Mullahs (Jamaatis) were coopted by the military in East Pakistan in 1971 with the formation of Al-Shams and Al-Badr pro-Pakistani organizations. They were coopted in late seventies during Afghan war by Zia and formed Lashkars and harkats and JUI Mullahs during BB reign with the formation of Taliban. Many of the splinter groups of JUI are currently destabilising Pakistan through sectarian and Jehadi outfits. They have also been found convenient allies to the most powerful force in Pakistan whenever they wanted to destabilize the civilian governments. All this has made them quite powerful and fearless but popularity is another matter which they lack. Most people would accept Mullahs as a necessity but would not marry off their daughters to them, would not leave their home key with them and would not vote for them provided other alternatives are available except in the areas where Indian plate is buckling under the Asian plate (along the Koh-e-Suleiman range). Right now, they have all the field unto themselves. There is no opposition to them from any quarter. The politicians are disgraced and pushed aside while people like Mullah Azhar, Mufti Saeed and others are freely, possibly with the backing of military, continuing their activities.

Yes, Mullahs might take over in an uneven playing field, when the odds are against all other civilian groups. Once in power, it would be awfully difficult to dislodge them from power, no matter how unpopular they become.

Yes I am fearful due to military-mullah axis and not because they enjoy modicum popularity. They were and will be crushed anytime in Karachi by MQM and PML/ PPP in Sindh and Punjab. All we need is for military to back off fom taking sides. I will personally favor any corrupt PPP or PML government over Mullocracy because I have sisters who work for living.

Until we don’t think of ourselves as Muslims first and then Pakistanis, the ball will not start rolling. First of all, a truly Islamic rule does not exist in Pakistan or probably anywhere else and sadly, the Pakistani masses are not educated in it, which means that even if there were an Islamic rule, it would be abused by the powerful. We are Muslims. This is our identity because only Islam can lay claims to being both a spiritual and political force. Other religions only exist on the personal/spiritual level.

True, there is a sprinkling of something here and something there but you need the complete system for the rules to work and one of the reasons Pakistan is not getting anywhere is because it’s half here, half there. It’s a bit like fitting F-16 components in a Skoda 1983 model and then wondering, why isn’t the car going any faster.

Would it be foolish or childish or even just a plain rhetoric to say that foreign Muslims of Pakistani origin (with something substantial to add, be it scholars, business folk artists, economists, engineers, lawyers, historians, etc etc) should form a collective and keep growing, developing, expanding that collective until they are powerful enough to exert positive influence onto the status of Pakistan itself. Currently, although there are various organisations, they seem to be composed of one fantastic genius ‘God’s gift to humanity’ person and the remaining members seem to be way down the ladder.

Just a thought.

Omar Phoenix

Until we don’t think of ourselves as Muslims first and then Pakistanis, the ball will not start rolling. First of all, a truly Islamic rule does not exist in Pakistan or probably anywhere else and sadly, the Pakistani masses are not educated in it, which means that even if there were an Islamic rule, it would be abused by the powerful. We are Muslims. This is our identity because only Islam can lay claims to being both a spiritual and political force. Other religions only exist on the personal/spiritual level.

True, there is a sprinkling of something here and something there but you need the complete system for the rules to work and one of the reasons Pakistan is not getting anywhere is because it’s half here, half there. It’s a bit like fitting F-16 components in a Skoda 1983 model and then wondering, why isn’t the car going any faster.

Would it be foolish or childish or even just a plain rhetoric to say that foreign Muslims of Pakistani origin (with something substantial to add, be it scholars, business folk artists, economists, engineers, lawyers, historians, etc etc) should form a collective and keep growing, developing, expanding that collective until they are powerful enough to exert positive influence onto the status of Pakistan itself. Currently, although there are various organisations, they seem to be composed of one fantastic genius ‘God’s gift to humanity’ person and the remaining members seem to be way down the ladder.

Just a thought.

Omar Phoenix