unflinching idealism ... since 1997 archivessitemapabouthelpfeedback
all are welcome to read, write and think
  • Home
  • InFocus
  • Themes
  • Columns
  • Articles
  • Fiction
  • iLogs
  • Gallery
  • Unplugged
  • Writers
  • Interactors
  • Tags
Sign in | Join Chowk
web chowk
  • Article
  • Interact
  • read writer comments
  • add to favorites
  • get rss feeds
  • print
  • email this link

Yet Another South Asian Story

Harish Nambiar November 20, 2000

Latest comments   flat   threaded   latest   oldest   all
listing 1-16   1 2 3

#41 Posted by ASK on December 15, 2000 1:21:07 pm
re: sb # 39

I agree with you about unemployment if zoning laws are applied strictly. The governments in Delhi and all other parts of India should have been working to fix this problem beforehand. This is what they are there for. But even if they have woken up now (after the Supreme Court has threatened them with contempt proceedings) they should be applauded by those who believe in the law. And suggestions to solve the problem of unemployment should be forthcoming. What disappoints me is that nobody in the media seems to have any idea how to solve these problems, when practically the whole world knows what needs to be done.

Compensation is a good idea. But monetary compensation is very prone to corruption. Moreover, what has the taxpayer done to have his/her money diverted like this. On the other hand, pardoning these violators and allowing them to continue sets a very bad precedent. What I would propose, and this needs to be a continuing process throughout the country, is the designation of new industrial and residential zones in Delhi, west UP and Haryana. Connect these zones by good roads among themselves and to commercial zones in central Delhi. Set up municipalities and municipal services in these new zones. And maybe provide land to the businesses being displaced by implementation of the laws. This should be done before and not after a city becomes the most polluted in the world. There is nothing profound about this. These solutions should be implemented fast and the media should be a watchdog. What really gets me angry is that instead of doing this the intelligensia (which prides itself in playing golf on courses in the UK) keeps debating whether India should follow the ``western model of development`` and so on. And when someone proposes common sense solutions they are told to not bother our media with such ``profound aspects`` and ``infallible logic``. Just agree with them about the human aspect of the tragic stories they bring us.

Ashish



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#40 Posted by khattur on December 13, 2000 8:01:55 pm
A REBEL GIRL IS NOT WANTED IN SOUTH ASIA.

Poor Aruna`s story is typical tragic story of a south asian girl who`s crime is worth punishing: thinking to change her fate. She was going to go against what had been destined for her by our society. Bravo journalist Virani and your husband, I salute u to bring Aruna`s story to lame light. May be your great effort can bring a little difference in our social system. It can also teach present day Arunas to quit dreaming about a better life or be very careful that there are so many Sohanlals following you in dark basements. We cannot doubt about the good intentions of Dr.Deshpande but what he did for Aruna did not help her at all.



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#39 Posted by sb on December 13, 2000 11:18:39 am
ASK #34:

On zoning laws, what are the reparations being provided for moving the established businesses out of the residential areas? In the past land has been given to the slum dwellers on the outskirts to vacate the busy roads and other areas in the city, but then new issues like transportation to work and caring for the very young crop up for the relocated people...they sell the land and move back to the cities...I agree that the devl should be focused away from the cities.

As much as people do not want welding shops in the residdential areas, they wouldnt want unemployment in the wider society...

Later.



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#38 Posted by sb on December 13, 2000 11:18:39 am
Harish,

Thanks for giving the reasons behind your story. If I did not comment on the human aspect of it, it may be because I have read about this before - an article in Manushi(?) and Virani`s interview online somewhere. Ashish too has commented on the human aspect of the story earlier.

In the course of responses to your story, some arguments came up with certain `infallibly logical` comments that dont seem to be to your liking, comments you dont seem to want to be evoked.

I keep getting these letters from an org called FoodFirst, and I will take the liberty of quoting a phrase here from the latest letter from its co-director about their books - `...because these books made sense of the injustice and provided a clear blueprint for action`.

How would the issues like the ones you outlined from our responses get to the Parliament? How much does accountability matter? Does it matter at all? If it does, what needs to be done?

I agree with what Ashish wrote towards the end in #37.

PS: Those IIT grads with govt subsidised education may just be contributing more to India from overseas in the form of building schools and funding projects than the

Indian writers writing about India for the western magazines.



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#37 Posted by ASK on December 8, 2000 10:55:57 am
re: HN # 36

Thanks, Mr. Nambiar, for clarifying your position. I will henceforth not reply to your articles. I would, however, make one request. In future when you write human interest stories please present them as ``Yet Another World Story`` or as ``uniquely human`` tragedy so that people like me aren`t confused by the title or the postscript.

I find it also interesting that you prefer ``scum of the earth`` to ``armpit of the earth``. And you believe in vigilantism (from your response to reply#35) more than due legal process. I find this more tragic than the story itself because of its implications for our society and other such cases.

Ashish



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#36 Posted by HN on December 5, 2000 5:09:57 pm


This response is entirely inspired by the last interact on this story. In the ten years in journalism that I spent this kind of a letter to editor would have warmed the cockles of my heart. It might have actually kept me in journalism.

But the letters that reach publication is always the ones that argue with infallible logic such profound aspects as:

a) Why South asian ?

b) Why exonerate uncooperative doctors ?

c) What is my opinion on the NDA government`s stand about life imprisonment / death penalty for rape?

Gentlemen and ladies, these are immaterial. At least to me. Yes these are issues that need discussion in Parliament...etc.

But there were a few reasons all severely personal, for me to put this story up. It was not topical...it had happened a few decades ago... includiing the ``publicity seeking`` author and her book release.

My reason was simply an aspect of this tragic story that is very very rare in our subcontinent. This was a rare case where all concerned sympathised with the victim and did their best to get justice.

Please to note ... no powerful interests were involved. In fact it was a case where all the benign ones united. The Law did take its own course. Despite all else being right... the process of justice went all wrong.

That was important to me. To communicate that justice is indeed tempered and tampered by mercy. Despite several grave questions raised by sensitive, aware, and intelligent interactors about the ``unforgivable lapses`` on the part of responsible people involved in this case, I still stand by the fact that Deshpande and the sub-inspectors etc...the small and insignificant players were indeed heroes.

In real life it is very difficult to be noble. Very often, those who manage to be noble, fall short of being correct legally. Here the stereotype of Robinhood hoods are easy examples. Deshpandes are rare.

It is easy for people to attack Pinky Virani`s ``exploitation of sensational`` story. But, as a journalist and author, she has done what she is expected to do. She found out the lesser known aspects of a true story, wrote it out, and presented it to you.

Readers can decide whether she did it for money or not. If she did, I still cannot understand where she had been immoral in her route to that fabled wealth. An IITian who had government subsidised education and got a green card and is currently living a decent life elsewhere is about as guilty as Virani...by this perverse logic.

From all accounts, since at Chowk South Asia is India and Pakistan, I wanted to underplay the location of the story, and foolishly it would seem in retrospect, wanted to underline the subcontinental relevance of the story`s situation.

Above all else I wanted to bring to readers here a story that flew ion the face of our cynicism. Not all tragic stories are doing of corrupt systems. And not all tragedies on this ``armpit of the earth`` have villains of unbriddled and unmitigated evil. The system is not a steel frame always run by pygmies.

It is the human aspect I wanted to highlight.



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#35 Posted by SaleemJ on December 3, 2000 10:45:11 am
Long time ago I implied in a post on the chowk that Indo-Pakistanis are the scum of the earth.

At that time all, but particularly the indian participants, pounced on me, reminding me of the fact of India being the largest human democracy in the world. Or that ``Pakistan didn`t need need democracy``, by the Pakistanis. I fell silent. Who could argue with that, especially when it had nothing to do with my argument?

That should explain my absence from the Chowk, and resultant silence.

Nambiar is a good thinker and writer. He also seems to have a feeling heart. I value that.

In olden times, till about a few years ago, I would have liked to visit him. I am in Pakistan but I could go back and forth every third, fourth or fifth year to India. Sometimes even after two years. I did that for no reason in particular. Just to see both bhoomis where I grew up. But I can`t do that any longer due to my very unstable health.

Now, I come to the point for which I picked up my pen to write this letter. And that is, that through paid advertisements in the print media, for instance, it should not be difficult to ferret out the fellow, Sohnlal, and made known as the person who destroyed a life and committed other crimes. I do not feel the ``revenge`` motive, although I did feel it but had to put it aside so that I may think how that satan can be made an example so others would think twice before doing such a deed.

I am making an offer of paying all advertisement expenses for locating thnis person. In fact all the hospitals and Associations of Medical practitioners and Medical Regulatory Bodies could be made the target of relevant inquiries. I simply am not prepared to believe, or accept, that a person with a name, a previous history of work and imprisonment should be so difficult to be found; knowing, at the same time, his probable profession. For Rs.5,000/- any ``private investigator`` should be able to join in too.

I am not making a reference to any letters on this board since I didn`t read any. I have learned my lesson to practice ``cerebral hygiene``, as Count Comte did in the 19th century before he penned down four volumes of social philosophy.

The required funds can be deposited in any institution and/or with person who is indicated to me. Go do it.

SaleemJ {SaleemJ@Themail.com}

In`sa`nee`a`t In`sa`f Istaqlal

The iiis



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#34 Posted by ASK on December 1, 2000 8:14:50 pm
re: sb#31

Literacy is certainly not sufficient for employment. Vocational training is essential for productive employment. But most modern jobs need the worker to atleast have the ability to understand written instructions. Literacy by itself usually gets most people much better alternatives compared to their illiterate parents. Most unemployed graduates you see are children of educated parents who haven`t paid much attention to studies, graduated with some meaningless degree and then don`t want to take up a job that pays less than what they expect or involves physical work. People can create employment themselves if they are willing to work and move to a different place to obtain the same. Here government restrictions in India on businesses can certainly be lesser but even in the present circumstances employment is not too difficult for those willing. An educated workforce creates a qualitatively better economy. Even a handicrafts worker can benefit from literacy by knowing the true prices the retailers charge for his work.

----

On the issue of zoning in Delhi, it is the businesses in residential areas which are the cause of a major part of the pollution. The intelligensia needs to support the government and ask for a better implementation of zoning laws, the exact opposite of what they are doing now. They should be calling for more development of industrial zones in the outskirts of the city (better still prevent migration of more people to Delhi by developing other areas across the whole nation), and better public transit from residential to industrial and commercial zones. The way to make the courts relevant is not by showing contempt for their rulings or changing the laws themselves as you suggest. The way to improve the effectiveness is to increase the size of the judiciary so that it is faster. There is no need to get rid of a law that prevents factories in residential areas. Who wants children living and playing next to welding shops?

-------

I do not like the way Deshpande behaved in this story. But it is the typical way people try to resolve problems in India. Hiding rape cases, asking people not to get involved in court cases in general, forgive and forget, etc. The police, public prosecutor and judge acted in an honorable manner in this case and went with whatever limited evidence they had. Which is why I demand an increase in the size of the judiciary. If the courts are faster people will discover that they have a system that is not too bad. It will become relevant to them. Corrupt officials or those who ignore the law like Deshpande will be facing action within their lifetimes. This will in turn clean up the legal system and even the political and bureaucratic systems.

I don`t find this story as one of major misconduct. Recently I read that a policeman in AP was trying to act as a mediator in fixing a marriage between a rapist and his rape victim. Fortunately, he was suspended from his job. I find that case far more disturbing and would like to have a follow up on that. Did the policeman ever lose his job completely? Unless he does lose his job what prevents others from acting with what they think are good intentions on their part like Deshpande. I heard of a similar story in Latin America of policemen (and priests too in their case) fixing marriages between rape victims and their rapists. Which is why I also object to the way this has been presented as a ``South Asian Story``. This is just a case where the slow judicial process has emboldened a doctor like Deshpande to ignore it or to remain ignorant of it. And it is also a case where you see hope in that the police, prosecutor and judge acted in the best manner they could. What I find unfortunate is that neither Mr. Nambiar nor Ms. Virani nor anybody else is campaigning for the solution to fix this. I hear solutions ranging from revamping the entire legal system (how much time and effort will it take), constitutional review, presidential system all the way to benevolent dictators. And recommendations for self-flagellation from left liberals. But I don`t hear a demand for a simple expansion of basic government services like law enforcement.

Ashish



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#33 Posted by sb on November 30, 2000 10:31:34 am
``But perhaps the people involved thought that they were protecting the victim from the stigma of rape.``

I note that, and that this happenend a few decades ago.

---

Manusmriti, has it been followed by Hindus all over the country? Thanks.



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#32 Posted by macgupta on November 30, 2000 12:11:54 am


A very sad story.

It is true that in India, being a rape victim carries a tremendous social stigma.

The irony is that I have it on good authority that the infamous Manusmriti says that a woman taken by force is blameless, and that she is purified by her monthly flow. ( Puts paid to the notion that Hindu society mirrors a scriptural text.)

The failure to register the case is shameful. The Indian Penal code (as far as I can find on the Web) prescribes a 7 to 10 year term for rape. Attempted murder ( less info. is available) seems to carry a 10 year term.

So the prescribed prison sentences may be too low. But perhaps the people involved thought that they were protecting the victim from the stigma of rape.

Some of the laws of India can be found at :

http://www.interpol.int/Public/Children/SexualAbuse/NationalLaws/csaIndia.asp

-Arun Gupta



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#31 Posted by sb on November 29, 2000 11:29:55 am
Ashish,

100% literacy rate and higher education in their own right are good, no ifs and buts about that from me.

A few issues/questions gleaned from people/orgs working for the literacy cause - literacy is not sufficient for economic freedom & security, political voice, and awareness; there is a very tangible expectation of literacy to provide succour from the wretched socio-econmic status quo from the illiterate parents - a hope that is almost impossible to realize in a generation or two; role of the govt and the society at large to absorb and provide opportunities for the expectant new graduates?

I am saying, literacy isnt enough - dont expect a complete change of scene from it - it is just a (significant) part of the development process.

-----

Dont know much about the zoning laws, a friend was saying that people can go to court to challenge the existing district laws on this(?) Yeah, the bleeding hearts are on the other side of the govt, it would be ideal if they(along with the journalists and other NGOs) take their opposition further than embarrassing/inconveniencing the govt and initiate processes for bringing about changes in the laws & the system(it is possible to do this, we just havent garnered enough mental and moral stamina yet) and sustain public debates, encourage mass participation. Like you said everyone disregards law - we have to change it to suit us, so that a larger chunk can respect it.

I do not support death penalty for rape either, remember wondering what got into NDA to prompt them for this...dont know if it is passed though?

-----

``The doctors and judge in this case acted in what they thought was in the best interests of the victim. Though this case is tragic it is not one of moral misconduct by the authorities (legally of course it is). ``

I dont think so - from Nambiar`s write-up - `Deshpande also persuaded Aruna`s distraught lover not to involve himself in the legal aspects of the case as a complainant, since the young doctor`s MD exam was about to begin. He persuaded him to concentrate on his exam and pray for Aruna.`

`The policemen who investigated her case were sure it was a rape case, and visited the hospital later to find medical corroboration, but were thwarted by Deshpande`s advice to the doctor who did not reveal the report of anal rape. They did their best in the circumstances, and got full terms for the two charges; robbery and attempt to murder. Seven years each.`

The well-educated dont trust law, and the not-so-educated fear it - an exception or a common syndrome?

Nambiar absolves the doctor from any blame saying he is a well-wisher; and goes on to blame the faceless system - how typically liberal! whats the system made of? what can be done?

Couldnt write earlier due to some preoccupations. Have some related anecdotes...some other time, maybe. Thanks for your posts, please do jump in whenever...!



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#30 Posted by ASK on November 25, 2000 1:30:22 pm
re: sb # 28

I am sorry to jump in here but literacy and then higher education are good in their own right. They are not being promoted to ``wean`` people away from traditional professions. They just open up opportunities for them in other fields. Nothing wrong with farming/handicrafts but why force people to follow these professions by keeping them away from education. Given a choice they may continue to practice farming/handicrafts. But if they want to become doctors/engineers/lawyers/big business owners why not give everybody this opportunity. After all, people in urban areas do have the option to go back to farming/handicrafts. They just don`t want to. Let us increase mobility in the other direction also.

Ashish



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#29 Posted by Harpreet on November 25, 2000 1:30:22 pm


dost-mittar,

Thank you for your reply. Maybe I was a little knee jerk in my response to you. I wasnt thinking straight after reading this piece. I apologise.

I recently read a precis of a novel written by an urdu writer after partition which deals with the issues you talk about, the returning home of abducted women after 1947. I cannot for the life of me remember the writer`s name or the name of the book.

It deals with a Hindu woman who returns to her husband after kidnap to Pakistan, and how her husband can only cope with his humiliation through excessive devotion to her, with formality, as a re-sanctified woman. This stifles the wife, and she suffers triply, first as a victim of rape, secondly as ``damaged goods`` in societies eyes, and thirdly through an inability to receive redmeptive love and resume normal relations with her husband. He elevates her so highly to assuage his guilt and hurt and his own violation, where she sits alone, unable to come to terms with what has happened. She can never forget, can never find solace in the blank state of domesticity because the distance she is put at reminds her of what happened to her, has altered her forever. She is thrice a victim.

I will try and get the reference for this book for you.

regards

Harpreet



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#28 Posted by sb on November 24, 2000 9:35:42 pm
RSaxena #23: ``I am talking about education, not just literacy``

I know, I was being finicky - I am more comfortable calling it (socio-political) awareness. Maybe its because of my roots in the backwaters of my state that I am inclined to have confidence in the innate wisdom & civic sense of the rural (illiterate) folk there. The literacy drive is good...it should not be directed at or touted as weaning people away from the sources of livelihood that sustained them/us for ages - farming/handicrafts/small businesses as against being clerks/doctors/etc.(let`s create a system that lets us be literate and still not take the glamour away from from other occupations/lets us pursue the occupations of our choice). I have digressed again...(If you arent already aware) this site may interest you - www.ilpnet.org.

``Education is the only way to instill a sense of responsibility...

Education is the only way to instill respect for the law...``

how can we define education? how can we bring about education?

(the law and the polity (even the constitution) we follow dont come from the soil or ethos of our country and people - they are from the former rulers and often times make little sense to our lot...Japan seems to manage quite well with the democracy imposed on it in the 50s...wonder why...too many questions...may be I will be more focused once I roll up my sleeves and get to work)



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#27 Posted by ASK on November 24, 2000 9:35:42 pm
re: sb#20

I do not think the death penalty for rape is going to improve the prosecution of such cases. It might even worsen the conviction rate. I raised this issue with Mr. Nambiar because he suggests that the punishment Sohanlal got was too little. Indeed the 7 yrs that he got was the standard punishment for rape till the recent legal changes. The judge in this case seems to have given him the punishment for rape (on the excuse of theft) even though he wasn`t prosecuted for that. The small theft he carried out didn`t merit this punishment.

Personally, I believe that the NDA hasn`t got it right. They have moved to the other extreme from the prior low 7 yr sentence. The mandatory sentence should have been raised to say 20 yrs or life (I believe life sentence should also be raised to actual ``life`` sentences up from the current maximum of 20 with earlier parole). The death penalty will only make judges even more reluctant to convict.

The doctors and judge in this case acted in what they thought was in the best interests of the victim. Though this case is tragic it is not one of moral misconduct by the authorities (legally of course it is). Sohanlal should have been prosecuted and convicted for rape, and he should not have been punished so severely for theft. There is a general disregard of the legal process in India. And our journalists and bleeding-heart elite are the worst offenders. For example, on the issue of implementation of zoning laws in Delhi (the current hot issue) the media seems to be sympathetic to the illegal businesses in residential areas.

The court system in India was designed for a time when most were not supposed to have access to them. In order to teach respect for law to the entire populace the courts have to become relevant to them (for the first time for a large segment of the population). The number of judges needs to be increased to between 5-10 times the current number (to bring it to international levels) which will reduce the backlog and increase the pace of the judicial process to a decent level. This is an issue that should be occupying the minds of our intelligensia and prime space in our news media.

Ashish



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#25 Posted by Harpreet on November 24, 2000 11:36:09 am


Sorry.....my the post below addressed to Solitude should have gone on the ``Headache and Heartburn`` board



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
listing 1-16   1 2 3

Interact Index

    #41 ASK
    #40 khattur
    #39 sb
    #38 sb
    #37 ASK
    #36 HN
    #35 SaleemJ
    #34 ASK
    #33 sb
    #32 macgupta
    #31 sb
    #30 ASK
    #29 Harpreet
    #28 sb
    #27 ASK
    #25 Harpreet
    #24 Harpreet
    #23 rsaxena
    #22 Harpreet
    #21 friend
    #20 sb
    #18 lubna
    #17 rsaxena
    #16 satish
    #15 Zahra
    #14 rsaxena
    #13 Neurogen
    #12 ASK
    #11 satish
    #10 hamzadafaqui
    #9 friend
    #8 aicha
    #7 fRoG gOdDeSs
    #6 Blitzkrieg
    #5 sadna
    #4 rsaxena
    #3 Blitzkrieg
    #2 scout
    #1 slink

Also by Harish Nambiar

  • The Trapdoor Opens: Naga Diaries 3
  • Infections and Infectiousness: Naga Diaries 2
  • A Sculptor of Parachutes: Naga Diary 1
more »

Similar Articles

  • Pakistan and the Death Penalty: Time to Call it Quits Beena Sarwar
  • Democracy is the Best Revenge? Ehtisham Iqbal
  • The Lucifer Effect Yasir Abbasi
  • Delayed Justice Shridhar Naik
  • Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice William Dalrymple
more »

US Elections 2008 Primaries

  • Hillary Clinton a Better Presidential Candidate
  • Leaders, Heroes and Mountains
  • Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and New American Dreams
  • Pakistan Elections 2008 - An analysis
  • Political Issues Ahead of Pakistan Elections
more »
get rss feed Get Chowk RSS Feed

Get Chowk Newsletter

Latest Interacts

  • bubba: Re: # 29 {go back... US Commando Strike in
  • eyecontact: There is a heavy... Why Zardari Should Be
  • eyecontact: There is a heavy... Why Zardari Should Be
  • CreateAlpha: LOL @ system! Hahahah What... Why Zardari Should Be
  • adamkhan: If the Americans, with... US Commando Strike in
  • tahmed32: hamidm: i guess you... Why Zardari Should Be
  • hamidm2: victory for tahmed ISLAMABAD:... Why Zardari Should Be
  • hamidm2: Re: # 35 tahmed, .... you... Why Zardari Should Be

THEMES

  • Pakistan's Struggle for Democracy
  • The Indian Story
  • Indo-Pak Relations
  • Personal Narratives
  • Religion Today
  • War on Terror
  • Role of Media
  • Call for Social Change
  • Hold Them Accountable
  • Environment and Us
  • Way of Life
more »

Top 5 Articles This Week

  • Popular
  • Save Me From Charismatic Leaders!
  • Free to Breed
  • Why Zardari Should Be President!
  • There is no ‘honour’ in killing
  • US Commando Strike in Waziristan
  • Featured
  • There are a Lot of Monkeys
  • White Charade
  • Words of a Woman
  • FOX News and the Smelly Shoes
  • Dilemmas of Creative Children
  • 10 Years Ago
  • A Conversation with Hanif Kureishi
  • The Complete Desi Step-By-Step Guide to Filling Out Your Census Form
  • Life (and Death) etc.
  • There Might Not be a Tomorrow
  • UN Sanctions Against Iraq: 10 Myths

Write on Chowk Interact Guidelines Privacy policy Terms Contact

Copyright © 1997 - 2008 chowk.com. All Rights Reserved
Reproduction of material on any www.chowk.com pages without prior written permissions is strictly prohibited