They Changed My God

DM ji
Satpal Daang and his wife Vimla Daang are still very much respected couple not only in Amritsar but all over Punjab.
You are right about the directions.That has been one of the main reasons for the mess in which the communist movement is today in India.

pardesi
I agree with you.Our sikh leadership still doesnot consider it a point worth considering.

DM ji
Satpal Daang and his wife Vimla Daang are still very much respected couple not only in Amritsar but all over Punjab.
You are right about the directions.That has been one of the main reasons for the mess in which the communist movement is today in India.

pardesi
I agree with you.Our sikh leadership still doesnot consider it a point worth considering.

would like to add another important thing:

`And if your Lord pleased all men on earth would become faithful. So do u want to force them into becoming muslim?`

(Surah Yunus-99)

u also say that if God existed why do things like innocent children suffereing take place?

.ofcourse what i will reply to it u mite not even care reading but still

According to Allah, what He has told us thru the quran, when we die and are presented before HIm, we will feel that we just spent a few days on earth and not a lifetime. then the eternal life will begin and the real pain and joy experienced.

and Allah is genderless.

for RSaxena and other atheists

the arguments u give for being an atheist from the few of the many of ur postings in reply here:

1.education needed not religious buildings.

2.science and religion conflict

my reply is:

The very first revelation of the Qura`an, Surah Al-Alaq Ayah 1-5:

[96:1-5] Read! In the name of your Lord who created - Created the human from something which clings. Read! And your Lord is Most Bountiful - He who taught (the use of) the Pen, Taught the human that which he knew not.

Read! The first word Allah conveys to us through Qura`an.

and:

[3:190-191] Verily in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day - there are indeed signs for men of understanding;

[21:30] ...And We made every living thing from water...

[24:45] And Allah has created every animal from water...

and the currently believed by the scientists that life did originate in water.

and i copy the following from an essay a friend composed:

Finally, the Qur`an gives a fascinating account of embryological development (the first three months) in the following verses (certain words have been transliterated directly from the Arabic):

[23:14] ...We made the drop into an ALAQAH (leech-like structure), and then We changed the ALAQAH into a MUDGHAH (chewed-like substance), then We changed the MUDGHAH into IDHAAM (bones, skeleton), then We clothed the IDHAAM with LAHM (flesh, muscles), then We caused him to grow and come into being as another creation.

[22:5] ...We created you out of dust, then out of a drop, then out of a MUDGHAH, partly formed and partly unformed...

Verse [23:14] divides embryological development into four stages. The first stage picks up right after fertilization (``drop``), and is characterized by an ALAQAH or ``leech-like structure`` which describes how the egg implants itself into the uterus (see above). The second stage describes the embryo as evolving into a MUDGHAH which means something which has been chewed (especially a piece of meat), or which has the appearance of having been chewed. This seemingly crude description is in fact quite accurate: after the fertilized egg lodges itself in the uterus, it begins to receive its first nutrients and energy from its mother. Consequently, it begins to grow especially rapidly, and after a week or two it looks like a ragged piece of meat to the naked eye. This effect is enhanced by the development of small buds and protrusions which will eventually grow into complete organs and limbs.

The next two stages described in verse [23:14] tell of bones being made from the MUDGHAH, followed by the ``clothing`` of the bones with flesh or muscles. If we follow the progress of the embryo with our own eyes, we find that after approximately four weeks, a process called `differentiation` begins, where groups of cells within the embryo transform themselves to form certain large organs. One of the earliest structures to develop in this stage is the cartilaginous basis of the human skeleton (in subsequent months, the cartilage hardens or ossifies). It is followed soon after by the appearance of a host of other organs including muscles, ears, eyes, kidneys, heart, and more. This maintains the order described in the Qur`an. Verse [23:14] concludes with the growth of the organism in the womb (and simple growth is the primary characteristic of the fetal stage) followed by its birth.

Verse [22:5] adds one more interesting note on the embryo. In this verse, the MUDGHAH is qualified with the phrase

``partly formed and partly unformed.``

....even my own knowledge of the quraan is incomplete, and i`d like to add that just like we need to know of a particular scientific field or anyother to talk of it, i say first gather knowledge about waht islam really teaches! then if Allah wishes He may turn ur heart...and if u still remain atheist ,..what can i say.

where can i have the original poem in urdu

JR:

Thanks for the intimate. Somehow, in my heart and heart, I was really feeling guilty for my penetrating questions. I am glad to hear that you are doing fine. My list of questions was longer than I had intended it to be. The real interest lies in knowing only 3 things. I will look forward to hearing from you.

Regards.

Zahra:

My reply to you was lost by Chowk!

I will connect with you on this later.

PM #308

It is not graciousness.

My belief is true for me. Your belief is true for you.

Inciting hatred against christians or jews is un-Islamic.

It is wrong actions and beliefs which are to be criticized. (Like changing the Ayah of Torah by Jews for some wordly benefit. Or selectively reading Quran to get a particular meaning I see no difference)

To give you both sides of picture.

I believe in pure monotheism. And to me the belief in Jesus as son of God is against it. But it is a matter to be decided by God and not me. So if you as a christian change your thought according to my belief you will be benefiting yourself and not me.

Compare that our Mullahs who incite to kill people because he is christian, or Shia, or another sect. That is inhuman. First if the religion cannot teach us humility and be afraid of God all the time then I think there is something somewhere wrong.

People have made religion into a joke for their narrow aims.

Now another aspect. Pakistan is a nation state. And it should act as such. On one hand Islamist think that Nation is against religion, and on the other hand kill their own brothers (like in Bengal) in the name of nation.

Since my only salvation left is in afterlife. (There is no hope in this world now for me:-)), I will say black as black without fear.

But in all sinceerity, my best wishes are not only for christians but all the down trodden people of Pakistan. I have seen enough to cry for my lifetime.

Krashid: #307

``So don`t confuse the issues. As far as taking Christians of Pakistan as friends or enemy is a moot question.``

I`m confusing the issue?!? Perhaps you read my last post in a hurry, so I reproduce the main para here for your kind perusal. Please read it carefully this time:

(PM #302): ``I have never categorized the Quran as bitgoted. I have simply stated taht there are verses in it that DO fan the flames of intolerance and bigotry, if read out of context. but hte problem is, as long as you hold that it is eternal and perfect, context becomes meaningless. Get it??``

I have no doubt that you, like most Muslims I know, are gracious enough to keep Christians as friends :). However, my point is that those extremists who would choose not to be as accomodative as your good self have some scriptural grounds for sustaining their hatred.

As for the `hearsay` issue, I guess I will have to go to my Pickthall after all..

later,

PM

PM #302

I again ask you to produce the evidence. This is hearsay, as far as I am concerned and laws are concerned.

The requirement for witness is male and other specification in Shariah is authenticity (i.e not false witness).

As far as taking friend does not mean taking friend in personal life. And I have christian friends also (and good friends).

It is related to Islam and its politics. And I think, it is better have a treaty rather than taking them as friends and relying on it. It is not a message of hate but advise. Which seeing the situation in current world regarding Christian and Jewish attitude towards Muslims and Islam politically looks to be a sound advise.

Regarding my profession, you can guess that I had pretty significant interactions with christians. And I found them as much human and as much like me as any other person.

So don`t confuse the issues. As far as taking Christians of Pakistan as friends or enemy is a moot question. Lets hope that they get their long due share in the steadily shrinking Pakistan pie.

Tahmed #297:

``I politely asked to be excused not because I do not wish to discuss specifics, as I am sure you know. Since a polite ``no thanks`` was not enough, ...`

Actually, if you go back, you`ll find that it *was * enough. I didn`t pursue it any further. If you were irked by my honest appraisal of the situation, wll, we know whose problem THAT is.

rgds,

PM

re. scout #295

``Don`t let harsh words get you down. I know you don`t care, but sometimes people can say mean things here (like me).``

Whaddaya mean I don`t care? See , if you cut me, don`t I ....? :-)

But the sentiment is much appreciated.

No, I didn`t hear about the Church`s run into with the the teletubbies.. what did they say it symbolized??

rgds,

PM

re. scout #295

``Don`t let harsh words get you down. I know you don`t care, but sometimes people can say mean things here (like me).``

Whaddaya mean I don`t care? See , if you cut me, don`t I ....? :-)

But the sentiment is much appreciated.

No, I didn`t hear about the Church`s run into with the the teletubbies.. what did they say it symbolized??

rgds,

PM

re. Zahra

Excuse me, but I still cannot read your remark as anything but pesonally directed. That said , perhaps your advice to break away is sound.

rgds,

PM

re. krashid 279

Can you enlighten us non-believers in democracy where in Koran or Shariah, the witness of two non-Muslims is equal to One Muslim.

You`re right.. When the Quran states a requirement of four male MUSLIM witnesses for a zina indictment, the implication is the FEWER non-Muslims would be permitted, right?

``There is another Ayah in Koran complimenting some christians who are looking for truth.``

I have never caegorized the Quran as bitgoted. I have simply stated taht there are verses in it that DO fan the flames of intolerance and bigotry, if read out of context. but hte problem is, as long as you hold that it is eternal and perfect, context becomes meaningless. Get it??

``But I think they are found in white christians only (although Quran has not specified that whether they can be found in Kale Angrez also).``

So which part are you disparaing here: the `Kale` or the `Angraiz`. Grow up! At least use labels that have some meaning. Not everyone Kala who opposes your version of the truth identifies with the Angraiz-- whatever taht might mean!

re. Tahmed #297

``let me put it more bluntly: I asked to be excused from your invitation to discuss your views in keeping with the good advice that one should not engage in an argument with a fool, since people may not be able to tell the difference. ``

ho hummm.. whatever!... I just thought you might take the time to point out which of my contentions was oh so ignorant, and why. But then, I guess you`ve learnt your lessons from arguing on those lines with Adnan. So it`s ok.. I understand your need to label me a fool and end it at that.

Now if you`ll excuse me too,

rgds,

PM