Aporup Acharya March 10, 2001
#17 Posted by Zahra on March 11, 2001 3:39:53 pm
A Change:
Indeed, this article is an account of personal experiences and likes, but still you do not give a feeling that you ``understand and/or understood`` very well, what was sung by him.
Indeed, this article is an account of personal experiences and likes, but still you do not give a feeling that you ``understand and/or understood`` very well, what was sung by him.
#18 Posted by sadna on March 11, 2001 5:00:39 pm
Re the responses on this thread:
Bureacrats demanding to rubberstamp and grade the shades of personal experience listening to a gifted singer? That too, related to (of all things) the Sufi mystic experience..?
And the world just lets it happen? Whats next, low-peity alarms for when we pray at home? Voice vectorizing for weekly checks on choir singers? Mandatory social security numbers for Naga sadhus? Federal regulation of pheromones?
Sadhana
Bureacrats demanding to rubberstamp and grade the shades of personal experience listening to a gifted singer? That too, related to (of all things) the Sufi mystic experience..?
And the world just lets it happen? Whats next, low-peity alarms for when we pray at home? Voice vectorizing for weekly checks on choir singers? Mandatory social security numbers for Naga sadhus? Federal regulation of pheromones?
Sadhana
#19 Posted by Urstruly on March 11, 2001 7:13:20 pm
Zahra:
I may have over-reacted but given the atmosphere here at Chowk where every luloo punjoo from hindus to gays and even people like hamidm take cheap shots at our ideals- I may have not.
I think Mr. Acharya owes us an explanation.
I may have over-reacted but given the atmosphere here at Chowk where every luloo punjoo from hindus to gays and even people like hamidm take cheap shots at our ideals- I may have not.
I think Mr. Acharya owes us an explanation.
#20 Posted by concerned on March 11, 2001 8:07:51 pm
[...``I think Mr. Acharya owes us an explanation...``]
who exactly is `us`? and do these `us` have a copyright or a patent for the use of the word `prophet`? if yes, would they kindly produce it in the court, er...chowk?
this all-muslim, all-the-time, muslim-o-rama (wait,...let me think about the copyright of that word), is really quite a show.
mr acharya doesn`t owe you, as they on chowk, a didly-squat.
- prophet of doom (aka concerned).
who exactly is `us`? and do these `us` have a copyright or a patent for the use of the word `prophet`? if yes, would they kindly produce it in the court, er...chowk?
this all-muslim, all-the-time, muslim-o-rama (wait,...let me think about the copyright of that word), is really quite a show.
mr acharya doesn`t owe you, as they on chowk, a didly-squat.
- prophet of doom (aka concerned).
#22 Posted by sadna on March 11, 2001 8:18:35 pm
...and oh, voluntary penal servitude called religion...jokes licenses, two references required... copyrights on EEG spikes...
#23 Posted by Asim on March 11, 2001 10:24:55 pm
Re : Sadna #80
``...And the world just lets it happen?``
The Indian armed forces are killing the mostly Muslim unarmed civilians of the IOK, and the world just lets it happen. The world realises that the political mouthpieces of BJP and RSS are inciting the ordinary Hindus into a revolt into eradoicating the Muslim community of this supposedly secular country, yet the world loks the other way. Indian intellectuals like yourself, argue and worry about the ethics behind appreciation of Nusrat Fateh Ali, a dead and bygone entity over those of the living ones in complete denila of all civility and humanity, yet you and your sad ilk are willing to continue to terrorise and subjugate a people because of your fake pride, yes the world still looks on. Aad but true.
Asim
``...And the world just lets it happen?``
The Indian armed forces are killing the mostly Muslim unarmed civilians of the IOK, and the world just lets it happen. The world realises that the political mouthpieces of BJP and RSS are inciting the ordinary Hindus into a revolt into eradoicating the Muslim community of this supposedly secular country, yet the world loks the other way. Indian intellectuals like yourself, argue and worry about the ethics behind appreciation of Nusrat Fateh Ali, a dead and bygone entity over those of the living ones in complete denila of all civility and humanity, yet you and your sad ilk are willing to continue to terrorise and subjugate a people because of your fake pride, yes the world still looks on. Aad but true.
Asim
#24 Posted by Zahra on March 11, 2001 10:28:14 pm
Asif N.
[Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan was a wonderful singer! I love his qawwalies; however I like listening to his original qawallies and I think it was a pity that he started to sing pop versions and rock versions.]
Cannot agree more with you on that. You will never hear any ``Chun Sajnaa`` or ``Saheb Tae`ree Bandi Aan`` or ``Mun Utkiyaa`` or ``Woh Hataa Rahaen Purdah`` or ``Yeh Jo Hulka Hulka Suroor`` or ``Nee Main Jaana Jogi Dae Naal`` on loud speakers or being played by the DJs. I also abhor the pathetic pop versions. They are simply an insult. Disgusting.
[The qawwali was traditionally for a specific purpose only: hamd of Allah Ta`ala, naat and midhat of Sayyedina Rasool Allah sal allahu alayhi wa sallam and manqabat of the awliya e karaam and eswp. of Hazrat Ali karam allah wajhu. Even the love sung of in qawwalies was used as a Sufi metaphor for Divine Love...therefore i think using it as playback for films in hollywood etc. was disrespectful. And I find the idea of people dancing in nightclubs to the tunes of ``Ali Ali Mawla Ali Ali`` offensive.]
Quite True! Specially, when it comes to the last sentence.
[btw, the poem by the author in the beginning of the piece quoted from a nusrat qawwali is SPECIFICALLY for the person of Allah`s Beloved Messenger alayhi salatosalaam and using it for anyone else is disrespectful...]
Here I will disagree. He has just quoted those verses, in his own way - but very explicitly stated his intent. For instance, I read something by Buddha and I do not believe in that belief system. What should I do? If person X has no affiliation with certain belief system, he will obviously interpret the sayings in another way. Here this fellow is just showing his respect and using those verses for the late singer. Before jumping to the conclusion, I will go by the intent than by what`s stated.
Well, there are all kinds of people on the face of earth with their own understanding of things. No matter how shallow they may appear to you, you cannot go and check everyone or can you? Is it worth it?
[Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan was a wonderful singer! I love his qawwalies; however I like listening to his original qawallies and I think it was a pity that he started to sing pop versions and rock versions.]
Cannot agree more with you on that. You will never hear any ``Chun Sajnaa`` or ``Saheb Tae`ree Bandi Aan`` or ``Mun Utkiyaa`` or ``Woh Hataa Rahaen Purdah`` or ``Yeh Jo Hulka Hulka Suroor`` or ``Nee Main Jaana Jogi Dae Naal`` on loud speakers or being played by the DJs. I also abhor the pathetic pop versions. They are simply an insult. Disgusting.
[The qawwali was traditionally for a specific purpose only: hamd of Allah Ta`ala, naat and midhat of Sayyedina Rasool Allah sal allahu alayhi wa sallam and manqabat of the awliya e karaam and eswp. of Hazrat Ali karam allah wajhu. Even the love sung of in qawwalies was used as a Sufi metaphor for Divine Love...therefore i think using it as playback for films in hollywood etc. was disrespectful. And I find the idea of people dancing in nightclubs to the tunes of ``Ali Ali Mawla Ali Ali`` offensive.]
Quite True! Specially, when it comes to the last sentence.
[btw, the poem by the author in the beginning of the piece quoted from a nusrat qawwali is SPECIFICALLY for the person of Allah`s Beloved Messenger alayhi salatosalaam and using it for anyone else is disrespectful...]
Here I will disagree. He has just quoted those verses, in his own way - but very explicitly stated his intent. For instance, I read something by Buddha and I do not believe in that belief system. What should I do? If person X has no affiliation with certain belief system, he will obviously interpret the sayings in another way. Here this fellow is just showing his respect and using those verses for the late singer. Before jumping to the conclusion, I will go by the intent than by what`s stated.
Well, there are all kinds of people on the face of earth with their own understanding of things. No matter how shallow they may appear to you, you cannot go and check everyone or can you? Is it worth it?
#25 Posted by hamidm on March 11, 2001 10:49:49 pm
urstruly
``every luloo punjoo from hindus to gays and even people like hamidm``
....... so now i am being lumped in with the horrible hindoos and frigging faggots ... and who are laloo and punjoo? .... oh, well - i am too tired to protest .... perhaps some other day .......how about a little george carlin ? .... but that would be blasphemy - wouldn`t it? ....... it really strikes me as funny that god, as powerful as he claims to be, sould feel threatened by comedians and sophomores .......
........but i do have a serious question: ``If God is so powerful, can He make a rock that is so heavy that He Himself can`t lift it? ``
``every luloo punjoo from hindus to gays and even people like hamidm``
....... so now i am being lumped in with the horrible hindoos and frigging faggots ... and who are laloo and punjoo? .... oh, well - i am too tired to protest .... perhaps some other day .......how about a little george carlin ? .... but that would be blasphemy - wouldn`t it? ....... it really strikes me as funny that god, as powerful as he claims to be, sould feel threatened by comedians and sophomores .......
........but i do have a serious question: ``If God is so powerful, can He make a rock that is so heavy that He Himself can`t lift it? ``
#26 Posted by sadna on March 11, 2001 11:13:53 pm
...perhaps a patriotism and indignation meter...a depth-of-feeling sounder... and visas for alien ideas and mandatory registration with the thought police..
#28 Posted by scout on March 12, 2001 12:04:59 am
Zahra #24, ``I also abhor the pathetic pop versions. They are simply an insult. Disgusting.``
Right on dudette. There should be a law against the ``westernization`` of Ustad Nusrat`s qawwalis.
I remember sitting next to an African American man in Toronto at one of his concerts. He was swooning to the melody of ``yeh jo halka halka suroor hai.`` He didn`t understand a word, but the melody and voice were powerful enough to have that effect on him.
That`s what I call power.
Right on dudette. There should be a law against the ``westernization`` of Ustad Nusrat`s qawwalis.
I remember sitting next to an African American man in Toronto at one of his concerts. He was swooning to the melody of ``yeh jo halka halka suroor hai.`` He didn`t understand a word, but the melody and voice were powerful enough to have that effect on him.
That`s what I call power.
#29 Posted by dullabhatti on March 12, 2001 2:05:16 am
I like most of NFAK`s work I have(unfortunately I have only part of it) but his CD called Sufi Songs which has half hour of Sultan bahu and half hour of Mian Mohammad Bakhash`s poetry is my most favourite collection of all. I won`d give up listening to that for a million bucks.
NFAK who was the younger one of many brothers and sisters and was first rejected by his father to be worth teaching music. His father used to teach a group of kids including his other sons. He will close the door and not allow NFAK inside the room but curious Nusrat would put his ears next to the gaps(cheethaN) in the door and windows and listen and grasp every word taught by his father about music. One day when his father came out suddenly for something he saw Nusrat clung to the window unaware that his father is out. His father took him inside and asked him to sing and learn to play harmonium. Rest is history.
Harpreet: There was famous Bhai Chaand who used to play kirtan in Golden Temple untill 47 and then he moved(or was made to) to Pakistan and that was end of Mardana tradition. There are still lot of traditional and classical Punjabi singers in Pakistan who have sung from gurbani particularly Alam Lohar and Shaukat Ali.
NFAK who was the younger one of many brothers and sisters and was first rejected by his father to be worth teaching music. His father used to teach a group of kids including his other sons. He will close the door and not allow NFAK inside the room but curious Nusrat would put his ears next to the gaps(cheethaN) in the door and windows and listen and grasp every word taught by his father about music. One day when his father came out suddenly for something he saw Nusrat clung to the window unaware that his father is out. His father took him inside and asked him to sing and learn to play harmonium. Rest is history.
Harpreet: There was famous Bhai Chaand who used to play kirtan in Golden Temple untill 47 and then he moved(or was made to) to Pakistan and that was end of Mardana tradition. There are still lot of traditional and classical Punjabi singers in Pakistan who have sung from gurbani particularly Alam Lohar and Shaukat Ali.
#30 Posted by Urstruly on March 12, 2001 9:01:20 am
Hamidm
Now who is being lalloo paunjoo. The question that you have asked is taught at elementary classes of logic and philosophy as a classic example of Circular Reasoning. I think it actually kills the religion of rationalism and not the dogmatic one.
I wonder if you could refute ``Pascale`s Wager``-
Now who is being lalloo paunjoo. The question that you have asked is taught at elementary classes of logic and philosophy as a classic example of Circular Reasoning. I think it actually kills the religion of rationalism and not the dogmatic one.
I wonder if you could refute ``Pascale`s Wager``-
#31 Posted by aakar on March 12, 2001 10:02:03 am
hi aporup
welcome to chowk.
u shoulda mentioned the concert with mohd mehboob on our anniversary.
he was in mumbai (actually in pune) last week and asked if i could organise anything quickly at home, but usman (asian age`s racing correspondent) only told me a day before mohd was returning to hyderabad.
keep writing.
aakar
welcome to chowk.
u shoulda mentioned the concert with mohd mehboob on our anniversary.
he was in mumbai (actually in pune) last week and asked if i could organise anything quickly at home, but usman (asian age`s racing correspondent) only told me a day before mohd was returning to hyderabad.
keep writing.
aakar
#32 Posted by Harpreet on March 12, 2001 10:30:01 am
Pardesi,
Sat-Sri-Akal :-)
Dulla Bhatti#29 :
Thanks for the information about Bhai Chand. Last year I attended a wedding of a distant relative in Wolverhampton, (near Birmingham, UK) and a famous Pakistani film playback singer performed kirtan there (I forget her name.....). And of course, I had not known that this was referred to as the Mardana tradition in memory of one of Baba Nanak`s closest friends....thanks... :-)
Last night I opened a couple of bottles of wine and watched the Manchester concert of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan again. I have reproduced here part of the interview he conducted. The interview was in Punjabi, but I transcribed word for word the English subtitles that were provided.....
Questioner :
*Can you tell us about Qawalli and its origins?
Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan :
* The tradition of Qawalli is more than one thousand years old. The tenth century Sufi saint Data Ganj Baksh wrote a well known book called ``The unveiling of the veiled`` in which he mentions Qawalli and its origins... Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Afghanistan are where the form originated. The languages used were from those regions, Arabic, Farsi and so on. The lyrics, mainly poetry, were generally expressions of mystical thoughts or songs in praise of God or the Prophet. The music came to India when Sufi saints came to preach in the 12th-13th century. Khwaja Moinuddin Chisti came from Afghanistan to India and settled in Ajmer, near Delhi. At this particular time, India was the cradle of civilisation. Chisti realised that the local people liked music and dance so he used Qawalli to promote Islam to the people in India. The musical form was not called Qawalli then, but `Sama`. Khwaja Moinuddin Chisti was followed by his disciples... Qutbuddin Bhaktiar Kaki, Baba Farid Ganj-Shakar, Nizamuddin Aulia, Amir Khusro, Alauddin Sabir of Kaliar. As members of the Chisti order of Sufis they nurtured this musical form. In particular, Amir Kusro made a very important contribution in this field, and in fact he is now regarded as the originator of Qawalli. Before him the word `Sama` was used, after him it was called Qawalli. He was an innovator. He used local languages such as Parbi and Bhasha for the lyrics. He invented new musical forms by combining Arabic and Turkish music with Indian ragas. He also invented new musical forms such as qaul, qalbana, tarana, naksh, and gul. He even included new instruments such as the sitar and the tabla. So all Qawallis are following in his footsteps. They all acknowledge Amir Khusro as their master....
regards
Harpreet
Sat-Sri-Akal :-)
Dulla Bhatti#29 :
Thanks for the information about Bhai Chand. Last year I attended a wedding of a distant relative in Wolverhampton, (near Birmingham, UK) and a famous Pakistani film playback singer performed kirtan there (I forget her name.....). And of course, I had not known that this was referred to as the Mardana tradition in memory of one of Baba Nanak`s closest friends....thanks... :-)
Last night I opened a couple of bottles of wine and watched the Manchester concert of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan again. I have reproduced here part of the interview he conducted. The interview was in Punjabi, but I transcribed word for word the English subtitles that were provided.....
Questioner :
*Can you tell us about Qawalli and its origins?
Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan :
* The tradition of Qawalli is more than one thousand years old. The tenth century Sufi saint Data Ganj Baksh wrote a well known book called ``The unveiling of the veiled`` in which he mentions Qawalli and its origins... Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Afghanistan are where the form originated. The languages used were from those regions, Arabic, Farsi and so on. The lyrics, mainly poetry, were generally expressions of mystical thoughts or songs in praise of God or the Prophet. The music came to India when Sufi saints came to preach in the 12th-13th century. Khwaja Moinuddin Chisti came from Afghanistan to India and settled in Ajmer, near Delhi. At this particular time, India was the cradle of civilisation. Chisti realised that the local people liked music and dance so he used Qawalli to promote Islam to the people in India. The musical form was not called Qawalli then, but `Sama`. Khwaja Moinuddin Chisti was followed by his disciples... Qutbuddin Bhaktiar Kaki, Baba Farid Ganj-Shakar, Nizamuddin Aulia, Amir Khusro, Alauddin Sabir of Kaliar. As members of the Chisti order of Sufis they nurtured this musical form. In particular, Amir Kusro made a very important contribution in this field, and in fact he is now regarded as the originator of Qawalli. Before him the word `Sama` was used, after him it was called Qawalli. He was an innovator. He used local languages such as Parbi and Bhasha for the lyrics. He invented new musical forms by combining Arabic and Turkish music with Indian ragas. He also invented new musical forms such as qaul, qalbana, tarana, naksh, and gul. He even included new instruments such as the sitar and the tabla. So all Qawallis are following in his footsteps. They all acknowledge Amir Khusro as their master....
regards
Harpreet
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