Biases of the American Press
Omar Mirza April 1, 2001
#106 Posted by OMAR1974 on April 6, 2001 8:43:08 pm
I think I`d like to refocus this discussion on the bias of the American press in reporting events with a current concrete example of what I`m talking about on reporting from the subcontinent folks, from the Washington Post today.
* * *A.B. Vajpayee has broken his promise to allow the APHC to visit Pakistan, why then is this NOT mentioned in this `objective` report ? In fact this `iniative` of Vajpayee`s is really a step backwards from his earlier promise, but note that it is being POSITIVELY reported rather than negatively, w/o any mention of the previous promise, on which India has clearly reneged, because it was never serious to begin with.
--OMAR Mirza
India Rebuffed on Proposal for Kashmir Talks _____Special Report_____
• Kashmir on the Brink
Associated Press
Friday, April 6, 2001; Page A29 NEW DELHI, April 5 -- India offered today to hold peace talks with Kashmiri separatists living abroad as well as those in the disputed Himalayan region. The offer was immediately rebuffed by the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, a key umbrella organization of political and religious groups in Kashmir, which demanded that the Pakistani government should be part of a tripartite dialogue.The government`s invitation to separatist and political groups living in India and abroad came four months after Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee ordered a temporary cease-fire against Islamic guerrillas fighting for Kashmir`s independence or unification with Pakistan. The statement offered no hope, however, of immediate negotiations with Pakistan, which has fought two wars with India over control of Kashmir since gaining independence from Britain in 1947. India accuses Pakistan of training and arming Islamic separatists who have been fighting since 1989 against Indian rule in the state of Jammu and Kashmir, India`s only state with a Muslim majority. Pakistan, an overwhelmingly Islamic nation, says it provides only moral and diplomatic support to the rebels.Today`s statement did not say when the dialogue would begin or with whom.``The government decided to embark upon a political dialogue with all sections of the peace-loving people of the state, including those who currently live outside it,`` the statement said. ``It is expected that . . . all political parties, nongovernment organizations, trade unions, social and religious bodies from all the regions of the state will participate.``Abdul Ghani Bhatt, a spokesman for the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, demanded that the Indian government allow a delegation of the group`s leaders to visit Pakistan to discuss the Indian offer with the Pakistani government and key militant groups there.
© 2001 The Washington Post Company
* * *A.B. Vajpayee has broken his promise to allow the APHC to visit Pakistan, why then is this NOT mentioned in this `objective` report ? In fact this `iniative` of Vajpayee`s is really a step backwards from his earlier promise, but note that it is being POSITIVELY reported rather than negatively, w/o any mention of the previous promise, on which India has clearly reneged, because it was never serious to begin with.
--OMAR Mirza
India Rebuffed on Proposal for Kashmir Talks _____Special Report_____
• Kashmir on the Brink
Associated Press
Friday, April 6, 2001; Page A29 NEW DELHI, April 5 -- India offered today to hold peace talks with Kashmiri separatists living abroad as well as those in the disputed Himalayan region. The offer was immediately rebuffed by the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, a key umbrella organization of political and religious groups in Kashmir, which demanded that the Pakistani government should be part of a tripartite dialogue.The government`s invitation to separatist and political groups living in India and abroad came four months after Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee ordered a temporary cease-fire against Islamic guerrillas fighting for Kashmir`s independence or unification with Pakistan. The statement offered no hope, however, of immediate negotiations with Pakistan, which has fought two wars with India over control of Kashmir since gaining independence from Britain in 1947. India accuses Pakistan of training and arming Islamic separatists who have been fighting since 1989 against Indian rule in the state of Jammu and Kashmir, India`s only state with a Muslim majority. Pakistan, an overwhelmingly Islamic nation, says it provides only moral and diplomatic support to the rebels.Today`s statement did not say when the dialogue would begin or with whom.``The government decided to embark upon a political dialogue with all sections of the peace-loving people of the state, including those who currently live outside it,`` the statement said. ``It is expected that . . . all political parties, nongovernment organizations, trade unions, social and religious bodies from all the regions of the state will participate.``Abdul Ghani Bhatt, a spokesman for the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, demanded that the Indian government allow a delegation of the group`s leaders to visit Pakistan to discuss the Indian offer with the Pakistani government and key militant groups there.
© 2001 The Washington Post Company
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#105 Posted by rsaxena on April 6, 2001 3:52:41 pm
Wow, harimau is wiping the board clean with Pakistani behinds.
#104 Posted by harimau on April 6, 2001 3:34:30 pm
Ref headshrinker #: 102
[Its bad enough that you bigots spread hatred in this world.]
I spread history, not hatred. How come not one you self-serving pathetic idiots have been able to refute one solitary single historical fact I have posted?
[What is sickening is that all you do is thump your chests & conveniently let others die for your causes;]
My cause is that people should learn the true history of Islam. How does such an academic exercise cause deaths?
[I`m a hand wringing, moderate Islamic tree hugging hindu apologist---& proud of it.]
You are a cretin with single central incisor syndrome. If you are a doctor as you have claimed to be, you would know what that means. Last time, it went over your head.
[Its bad enough that you bigots spread hatred in this world.]
I spread history, not hatred. How come not one you self-serving pathetic idiots have been able to refute one solitary single historical fact I have posted?
[What is sickening is that all you do is thump your chests & conveniently let others die for your causes;]
My cause is that people should learn the true history of Islam. How does such an academic exercise cause deaths?
[I`m a hand wringing, moderate Islamic tree hugging hindu apologist---& proud of it.]
You are a cretin with single central incisor syndrome. If you are a doctor as you have claimed to be, you would know what that means. Last time, it went over your head.
#103 Posted by mohajir on April 6, 2001 2:12:56 pm
http://www.india-today.com/itoday/20010409/benazir.shtml
Exile and Benazir Bhutto are no strangers to each other. Prime minister of Pakistan for two terms, she has also been forced out of Pakistan on two different occasions. First by General Zia-ul-Haq after her father Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto`s execution in 1979, and again since 1998, after her rivalry with former prime minister Nawaz Sharif assumed epic proportions. Sharif himself is today in exile but the military government of General Pervez Musharraf shows no desire to have her return home to Clifton in Karachi.
With husband Asif Zardari languishing in jail on corruption charges, the 49-year-old Benazir shuttles between Dubai
and London. Dubai is where her two children go to school and where she spends time with her ailing mother Nusrat.
But London is where she gets active politically, fulfilling her responsibilities as chairperson of the Pakistan People`s Party (PPP) by telephone and e-mail. In an interview to Aaj Tak, she spoke to INDIA TODAY Editor Prabhu Chawla at her sister Samna`s spacious third floor flat in Queensgate, Kensington.
Q. Do you think you can dethrone Pervez Musharraf?
A. Many generals came and were dethroned-Yahya Khan, Zia-ul-Haq, Ayub Khan. Today Musharraf saheb is in power. But ultimately Pakistan as envisioned by Mohammed Ali Jinnah will succeed, which is a democratic Pakistan, a Pakistan in which the poor will be treated with respect.
Q. From its very birth, democracy in Pakistan has suffered. Why? Do politicians there have no credibility?
A. Is it a question of credibility or of a consensus which did not evolve? In India there are serious differences among political leaders but all the groups agree that India should have democracy, an independent election commission, free judiciary and a free press. It is the opposite in Pakistan. For example, when my government was removed undemocratically, no one raised a voice to say the President should not have such powers.
Q. There have been two types of regimes there. One elected, the other comprising the ISI and the army establishment. Is this true?
A. Yes, we have two regimes. One which is visible and the other which is not. This has caused much damage to our country because the political interests of the invisible regime have been opposed to those of the people. This is also why Pakistan broke up. Now it is being said there should be a legal structure for these invisible forces so that they act within the law.
Q. This seems impossible. Nawaz Sharif who had a two-thirds majority and tried to control this invisible regime was dismissed.
A. This is one perception. The other perception is that Sharif was himself the product of the invisible regime. So the majority which he had was not of the people. If a group of democratic parties gets a majority then I think changes can be brought in the structure so that there is a revolution in the country.
Q. Do you think the gun overrules the vote in Pakistan?
A. It has been so until now. But we are fighting to strengthen the politics of vote. This is not easy but if one has conviction and commitment, as the PPP and its supporters have for democracy, then one has to fight.
Q. In the type of jehad being practised there, arms are being used in the name of religion.
A. Religious groups have been given a free hand there. And after the Afghan jehad, a new jehad has started. When I say jehad I mean a political movement. In the Islamic world there are some groups which say that they have to resort to arms to rule over the world. There also are those who say that the meaning of Musalman is you to your own religion and I to my own.
Q. What do you believe in?
A. I believe that Islam is a call for peace, for tolerance.
Q. Do you support border intrusions in the name of Islam?
A. The Kashmir movement is of two types. One is a political movement, which is under the All Party Hurriyat Conference. We support them. The other is of Lashkar-e-Toiba and armed groups. We oppose them.
Q. Do you think that there is any solution to the Kashmir issue in the light of what is going on there?
A. No solution has come up in the past 50 years and it will not come up in the next 50 years if the people of India, Pakistan and Kashmir follow the path they have followed till now. Both countries have their own perceptions. Pakistan says the right to self-determination should be given.
Q. To whom?
A. To the people of Kashmir.
Q. Which Kashmir? Both of them?
A. Pakistan`s intention is that one Kashmir should be given this right. But if you people exert pressure then both Kashmirs can be included.
Q. Do you agree that both Kashmirs should vote on whether they want to live with India or Pakistan?
A. If India proposes this Pakistan will definitely agree.
Q. But the Simla Agreement ...
A. I think you people are not ready for this.
Q. In the Simla Agreement it was decided that we should respect the LOC.
A. It`s the Indian interpretation. Pakistan`s view is that it will be resolved bilaterally. If it fails we will go to the UN.
Q. What do you think of Vajpayee`s peace initiatives?
A. After Rajiv, Vajpayee is the first leader with farsightedness. He has taken some courageous steps. Pakistan is missing out on this window of opportunity.
Q. The UN is not going to interfere in this issue. Can there be an agreement on the LOC?
A. I think India wants the LOC to be made the international border. But Pakistan wants to politically support insurgency so that a referendum is carried out there. There can be no agreement between these opposing views. We should acknowledge there are differing viewpoints. One should undertake confidence building for that.
Q. This has been tried so many times-the Simla Agreement, Atal Bihari Vajpayee`s bus journey, your talks with Rajiv Gandhi, the contents of which are still secret.
A. We talked about Siachen and East Punjab. At that time East Punjab was a big problem for your people.
Q. It is the perception in India that you people were supporting, arming and financing them.
A. There is a perception that you people were doing the same in Karachi. Maybe we were doing that but we should now talk about our differences. We should build confidence for an open border. Then the new generation will distance itself from bloodshed and hatred.
Q. Vajpayee went by bus but what did he get? Kargil, guns ... A. It was wrong. But he was dealing with an undemocratic leadership.
Q. But it was an elected leadership.
A. How? Farooque Leghari established a biased regime and said, ``I will not allow Benazir to come back.`` We felt the 1997 election was a farce and boycotted it. Only 16 per cent of the electorate voted. The Election Commission of Pakistan claimed that 50 per cent had voted. All your newspapers rightly said that 16 per cent voted.
Q. It seems that votes are polled somewhere else in your country.
A. Yes. There are all sorts of rigging. So there was an insecure leadership. It wanted to please India, please the world, please the army. In Lahore, Vajpayee was being felicitated and the army was being told to take positions. General Musharraf said recently he would go anywhere and talk to India. I think if a military ruler says he is ready to talk then you must understand that our people want peace.
Q. You seem to have a lot of faith in General Musharraf.
A. I have differences with him. He has said that he will use the army against me and will stop me.
Q. When you were dismissed the first time, you said Osama bin Laden had been behind the move and that he had spent money.
A. In 1989, there was a no-confidence vote against me. Bin Laden gave $10 million to remove me. During Zia-ul-Haq`s rule the Afghan jehad had started in Pakistan. Madarsas were established and the children of the poor were recruited and promised clothes, etc.
Q. Were you against that?
A. Certainly. Members of the PPP are not allowed to take up arms. Then why should the mullahs be permitted to do so? This dual law goes against the Constitution.
Q. But did you compromise so that continuity was ensured?
A. Certainly. I did try.
Exile and Benazir Bhutto are no strangers to each other. Prime minister of Pakistan for two terms, she has also been forced out of Pakistan on two different occasions. First by General Zia-ul-Haq after her father Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto`s execution in 1979, and again since 1998, after her rivalry with former prime minister Nawaz Sharif assumed epic proportions. Sharif himself is today in exile but the military government of General Pervez Musharraf shows no desire to have her return home to Clifton in Karachi.
With husband Asif Zardari languishing in jail on corruption charges, the 49-year-old Benazir shuttles between Dubai
and London. Dubai is where her two children go to school and where she spends time with her ailing mother Nusrat.
But London is where she gets active politically, fulfilling her responsibilities as chairperson of the Pakistan People`s Party (PPP) by telephone and e-mail. In an interview to Aaj Tak, she spoke to INDIA TODAY Editor Prabhu Chawla at her sister Samna`s spacious third floor flat in Queensgate, Kensington.
Q. Do you think you can dethrone Pervez Musharraf?
A. Many generals came and were dethroned-Yahya Khan, Zia-ul-Haq, Ayub Khan. Today Musharraf saheb is in power. But ultimately Pakistan as envisioned by Mohammed Ali Jinnah will succeed, which is a democratic Pakistan, a Pakistan in which the poor will be treated with respect.
Q. From its very birth, democracy in Pakistan has suffered. Why? Do politicians there have no credibility?
A. Is it a question of credibility or of a consensus which did not evolve? In India there are serious differences among political leaders but all the groups agree that India should have democracy, an independent election commission, free judiciary and a free press. It is the opposite in Pakistan. For example, when my government was removed undemocratically, no one raised a voice to say the President should not have such powers.
Q. There have been two types of regimes there. One elected, the other comprising the ISI and the army establishment. Is this true?
A. Yes, we have two regimes. One which is visible and the other which is not. This has caused much damage to our country because the political interests of the invisible regime have been opposed to those of the people. This is also why Pakistan broke up. Now it is being said there should be a legal structure for these invisible forces so that they act within the law.
Q. This seems impossible. Nawaz Sharif who had a two-thirds majority and tried to control this invisible regime was dismissed.
A. This is one perception. The other perception is that Sharif was himself the product of the invisible regime. So the majority which he had was not of the people. If a group of democratic parties gets a majority then I think changes can be brought in the structure so that there is a revolution in the country.
Q. Do you think the gun overrules the vote in Pakistan?
A. It has been so until now. But we are fighting to strengthen the politics of vote. This is not easy but if one has conviction and commitment, as the PPP and its supporters have for democracy, then one has to fight.
Q. In the type of jehad being practised there, arms are being used in the name of religion.
A. Religious groups have been given a free hand there. And after the Afghan jehad, a new jehad has started. When I say jehad I mean a political movement. In the Islamic world there are some groups which say that they have to resort to arms to rule over the world. There also are those who say that the meaning of Musalman is you to your own religion and I to my own.
Q. What do you believe in?
A. I believe that Islam is a call for peace, for tolerance.
Q. Do you support border intrusions in the name of Islam?
A. The Kashmir movement is of two types. One is a political movement, which is under the All Party Hurriyat Conference. We support them. The other is of Lashkar-e-Toiba and armed groups. We oppose them.
Q. Do you think that there is any solution to the Kashmir issue in the light of what is going on there?
A. No solution has come up in the past 50 years and it will not come up in the next 50 years if the people of India, Pakistan and Kashmir follow the path they have followed till now. Both countries have their own perceptions. Pakistan says the right to self-determination should be given.
Q. To whom?
A. To the people of Kashmir.
Q. Which Kashmir? Both of them?
A. Pakistan`s intention is that one Kashmir should be given this right. But if you people exert pressure then both Kashmirs can be included.
Q. Do you agree that both Kashmirs should vote on whether they want to live with India or Pakistan?
A. If India proposes this Pakistan will definitely agree.
Q. But the Simla Agreement ...
A. I think you people are not ready for this.
Q. In the Simla Agreement it was decided that we should respect the LOC.
A. It`s the Indian interpretation. Pakistan`s view is that it will be resolved bilaterally. If it fails we will go to the UN.
Q. What do you think of Vajpayee`s peace initiatives?
A. After Rajiv, Vajpayee is the first leader with farsightedness. He has taken some courageous steps. Pakistan is missing out on this window of opportunity.
Q. The UN is not going to interfere in this issue. Can there be an agreement on the LOC?
A. I think India wants the LOC to be made the international border. But Pakistan wants to politically support insurgency so that a referendum is carried out there. There can be no agreement between these opposing views. We should acknowledge there are differing viewpoints. One should undertake confidence building for that.
Q. This has been tried so many times-the Simla Agreement, Atal Bihari Vajpayee`s bus journey, your talks with Rajiv Gandhi, the contents of which are still secret.
A. We talked about Siachen and East Punjab. At that time East Punjab was a big problem for your people.
Q. It is the perception in India that you people were supporting, arming and financing them.
A. There is a perception that you people were doing the same in Karachi. Maybe we were doing that but we should now talk about our differences. We should build confidence for an open border. Then the new generation will distance itself from bloodshed and hatred.
Q. Vajpayee went by bus but what did he get? Kargil, guns ... A. It was wrong. But he was dealing with an undemocratic leadership.
Q. But it was an elected leadership.
A. How? Farooque Leghari established a biased regime and said, ``I will not allow Benazir to come back.`` We felt the 1997 election was a farce and boycotted it. Only 16 per cent of the electorate voted. The Election Commission of Pakistan claimed that 50 per cent had voted. All your newspapers rightly said that 16 per cent voted.
Q. It seems that votes are polled somewhere else in your country.
A. Yes. There are all sorts of rigging. So there was an insecure leadership. It wanted to please India, please the world, please the army. In Lahore, Vajpayee was being felicitated and the army was being told to take positions. General Musharraf said recently he would go anywhere and talk to India. I think if a military ruler says he is ready to talk then you must understand that our people want peace.
Q. You seem to have a lot of faith in General Musharraf.
A. I have differences with him. He has said that he will use the army against me and will stop me.
Q. When you were dismissed the first time, you said Osama bin Laden had been behind the move and that he had spent money.
A. In 1989, there was a no-confidence vote against me. Bin Laden gave $10 million to remove me. During Zia-ul-Haq`s rule the Afghan jehad had started in Pakistan. Madarsas were established and the children of the poor were recruited and promised clothes, etc.
Q. Were you against that?
A. Certainly. Members of the PPP are not allowed to take up arms. Then why should the mullahs be permitted to do so? This dual law goes against the Constitution.
Q. But did you compromise so that continuity was ensured?
A. Certainly. I did try.
#102 Posted by Eklavya on April 6, 2001 2:12:56 pm
ylh #100
Amen. And best wishes for Yale. Go and impress pants off those folks. :)
Amen. And best wishes for Yale. Go and impress pants off those folks. :)
#101 Posted by shankar on April 6, 2001 2:12:56 pm
harimau, ali1,
What Chowk/subcontinent/world needs is to have the two of you squelched like cockroaches. Its bigots like you that are mainly responsible for the sad state of affairs in the subcontinent.
Its bad enough that you bigots spread hatred in this world. What is sickening is that all you do is thump your chests & conveniently let others die for your causes; while you cowards are safe in the sanctuary of America. If you guys feel so strongly about your respectve religions & Kashmir--do the world a favor & go to Kashmir & die for what you believe in.
I`m a hand wringing, moderate Islamic tree hugging hindu apologist---& proud of it.
What Chowk/subcontinent/world needs is to have the two of you squelched like cockroaches. Its bigots like you that are mainly responsible for the sad state of affairs in the subcontinent.
Its bad enough that you bigots spread hatred in this world. What is sickening is that all you do is thump your chests & conveniently let others die for your causes; while you cowards are safe in the sanctuary of America. If you guys feel so strongly about your respectve religions & Kashmir--do the world a favor & go to Kashmir & die for what you believe in.
I`m a hand wringing, moderate Islamic tree hugging hindu apologist---& proud of it.
#100 Posted by jay on April 6, 2001 2:12:56 pm
ali1 #84
PAKISTANI CASTE
You keep refering to the csate system, which is essentially the dis/advantage with birth. On the chowk I have noticed many claiming to be decendents of the man himself, at the drop of a slur they are willing to stste their `great` pedigree. I understand that in pakistan, all have an identity card, that along with the address, also gives the family datails..etc.
At least prima facie it appears that pakistanis are more concerned with family linkages and connections than the indians. A recent report talks of all menial jobs being reserved for non-muslims in karachi. Just asking, is it possible that pakistan is most `caste` ridden than india.
regards
jay
PAKISTANI CASTE
You keep refering to the csate system, which is essentially the dis/advantage with birth. On the chowk I have noticed many claiming to be decendents of the man himself, at the drop of a slur they are willing to stste their `great` pedigree. I understand that in pakistan, all have an identity card, that along with the address, also gives the family datails..etc.
At least prima facie it appears that pakistanis are more concerned with family linkages and connections than the indians. A recent report talks of all menial jobs being reserved for non-muslims in karachi. Just asking, is it possible that pakistan is most `caste` ridden than india.
regards
jay
#99 Posted by ylh on April 6, 2001 1:30:05 am
Eklavya,
This is in response to your excellent post on the Aisha Sarwari Board.
Pakistan needs to follow the excellent example set by Qaid-e-Azam.
In Dec 1947 Qaid resigned as the League president saying that ``As Governor General I cannot continue to hold the highest office in a self avowedly communal organization``. (Ayesha Jalal, Constructing a state, State of Martial Rule)
Pakistan should be a Non Communal Impartial Democracy!
-YLH
PS The Yale University Conference starts tommorow ... star attractions ..
Mohandas Gandhi`s Grandson : Raj Mohan Gandhi
Shahid Javed Burki, and a representative of the All parties Hurriyet conference..and myself, I am on the Declaration Writing commitee and also will sign it too.
Hope to see you all there!
:)
This is in response to your excellent post on the Aisha Sarwari Board.
Pakistan needs to follow the excellent example set by Qaid-e-Azam.
In Dec 1947 Qaid resigned as the League president saying that ``As Governor General I cannot continue to hold the highest office in a self avowedly communal organization``. (Ayesha Jalal, Constructing a state, State of Martial Rule)
Pakistan should be a Non Communal Impartial Democracy!
-YLH
PS The Yale University Conference starts tommorow ... star attractions ..
Mohandas Gandhi`s Grandson : Raj Mohan Gandhi
Shahid Javed Burki, and a representative of the All parties Hurriyet conference..and myself, I am on the Declaration Writing commitee and also will sign it too.
Hope to see you all there!
:)
#98 Posted by Eklavya on April 6, 2001 12:17:34 am
siraj91
It will be unfair to ignore at least these two: Dr. Abdus Salam (sp?) and Maulana Edhi (sp?).
Besides, reading some people on Chowk, I would not lose hope. In particular, I am impressed with Pakistani women here: they are articulate, opiniated, cultured, and very intelligent. There is no reason why a country blessed with such people can not overcome any challenge.
Regards
It will be unfair to ignore at least these two: Dr. Abdus Salam (sp?) and Maulana Edhi (sp?).
Besides, reading some people on Chowk, I would not lose hope. In particular, I am impressed with Pakistani women here: they are articulate, opiniated, cultured, and very intelligent. There is no reason why a country blessed with such people can not overcome any challenge.
Regards
#97 Posted by hobbyty on April 5, 2001 9:25:18 pm
Re Siraj 91
Yes Pakistan does have a great deal wrong with it, but it is absurd to suggest that everything is wrong. The biggest problem is that the most are really uneducated. and the educated ``elite`` like it that way.
re women in jeans - If Pakistani women really want to fight for such things as the ``right`` to wear jeans (in that climate) - OK - let`s help them, but only if they fight their own fight not if it is to conform to some western notion of how they should dress, look, or feel. The wole world eating Mcdonalds and wearing levi`s, Hmmm - I`m sure more than a few people would take exception to such an eventuality.
Actually, self-realization, in a public sense of the word, for Pakistani women will be increasing difficult without the creation of truely vibrant economy and universal education and two years of universal national service after graduation from High school or college, in Pakistan.
Keep your faith in the essential goodness of ordinary Pakistanis, they will yet redeem that faith.
Yes Pakistan does have a great deal wrong with it, but it is absurd to suggest that everything is wrong. The biggest problem is that the most are really uneducated. and the educated ``elite`` like it that way.
re women in jeans - If Pakistani women really want to fight for such things as the ``right`` to wear jeans (in that climate) - OK - let`s help them, but only if they fight their own fight not if it is to conform to some western notion of how they should dress, look, or feel. The wole world eating Mcdonalds and wearing levi`s, Hmmm - I`m sure more than a few people would take exception to such an eventuality.
Actually, self-realization, in a public sense of the word, for Pakistani women will be increasing difficult without the creation of truely vibrant economy and universal education and two years of universal national service after graduation from High school or college, in Pakistan.
Keep your faith in the essential goodness of ordinary Pakistanis, they will yet redeem that faith.
#96 Posted by rsridhar on April 5, 2001 9:25:18 pm
Re:Reply #: 84
``Thats what your intolerant and bigoted religion teaches you... that humans are inherently unequal... made from brahma`s head, feet or arse... can be as high as the brahmins or can be sub-human cockroaches like muslims and shudras``.
Ali1,
What is your problem? It is people like you who make me feel partition was the best thing that happened to India. You have a problem with Harimau, address it to him but for God`s sake do not bring in our religion. Since you are so biased and ignorant,it is useless to educate you about hindu religion. Who knows may be you came out of Brahma`s arse. That sure will explain everything about you.
sridhar
``Thats what your intolerant and bigoted religion teaches you... that humans are inherently unequal... made from brahma`s head, feet or arse... can be as high as the brahmins or can be sub-human cockroaches like muslims and shudras``.
Ali1,
What is your problem? It is people like you who make me feel partition was the best thing that happened to India. You have a problem with Harimau, address it to him but for God`s sake do not bring in our religion. Since you are so biased and ignorant,it is useless to educate you about hindu religion. Who knows may be you came out of Brahma`s arse. That sure will explain everything about you.
sridhar
#95 Posted by sigalph235 on April 5, 2001 9:25:18 pm
re ferozk
The President of the United States expressed regret and said that our prayers are with the missing Chinese pilot`s family. If that`s not talking softly and humbly, what is?
I agree 100 per cent that collision with China must be avoided for business reasons. Not only is it the second biggest market but the potential, as the disposable income of the 1.2 bilion population goes up, is galactical. I have an interest in at least two companies which have half a billion invested in China between them. Definitely a no to any escalation.
But when you say,
``...and continue to stick with their policies of twenty years ago...``
that is just the invitation to conflict. The Cold War didn`t turn hot precisely because America was armed to the teeth and ready and willing to use the B-2. As Sir Winston said, the only sure guarantee of peace is to prepare for war. A strong America that is respected by the world is the first true guarantee of world peace. We discovered that 20 years ago and it worked. As the first Republican president said,
``What is conservatism but the keeping of the tried and tested as opposed to the untried and unknown``.
The minute China and the rogue states half way perceive a weakened American resolve, there will be havoc in the world. The world wasted 40 years on the Cold War thanks to pinko liberalism; never again!
By the way, as for the Pershing II missiles, the consensus you mention was pretty thin: the Iron Lady`s England, Helmut Kohl`s FRG by a thin margin, and Denmark I believe. And pinkos never stopped protesting the very things that saved them.
It may be a multipolar world now. But look deeply: philosophically it is fast becoming a world where the Anglo-American(please don`t tell me that the French are part of this) ideals of represenattive govt, free commerce, and individual liberty are ascendant. That ascendancy must be protected.
The President of the United States expressed regret and said that our prayers are with the missing Chinese pilot`s family. If that`s not talking softly and humbly, what is?
I agree 100 per cent that collision with China must be avoided for business reasons. Not only is it the second biggest market but the potential, as the disposable income of the 1.2 bilion population goes up, is galactical. I have an interest in at least two companies which have half a billion invested in China between them. Definitely a no to any escalation.
But when you say,
``...and continue to stick with their policies of twenty years ago...``
that is just the invitation to conflict. The Cold War didn`t turn hot precisely because America was armed to the teeth and ready and willing to use the B-2. As Sir Winston said, the only sure guarantee of peace is to prepare for war. A strong America that is respected by the world is the first true guarantee of world peace. We discovered that 20 years ago and it worked. As the first Republican president said,
``What is conservatism but the keeping of the tried and tested as opposed to the untried and unknown``.
The minute China and the rogue states half way perceive a weakened American resolve, there will be havoc in the world. The world wasted 40 years on the Cold War thanks to pinko liberalism; never again!
By the way, as for the Pershing II missiles, the consensus you mention was pretty thin: the Iron Lady`s England, Helmut Kohl`s FRG by a thin margin, and Denmark I believe. And pinkos never stopped protesting the very things that saved them.
It may be a multipolar world now. But look deeply: philosophically it is fast becoming a world where the Anglo-American(please don`t tell me that the French are part of this) ideals of represenattive govt, free commerce, and individual liberty are ascendant. That ascendancy must be protected.
#94 Posted by Godot on April 5, 2001 6:53:53 pm
Re: arjun_m, #94
``The Chinese will get away with the EP-3 incident and threats to nuke LA. India got sanctioned for just testing nukes.``
Wonder why? What China is in American psyche, India will never be. China is in America`s core, India is in its periphery. For America, China and India are not the same and are not equal, and will never be.
``The Chinese will get away with the EP-3 incident and threats to nuke LA. India got sanctioned for just testing nukes.``
Wonder why? What China is in American psyche, India will never be. China is in America`s core, India is in its periphery. For America, China and India are not the same and are not equal, and will never be.
#93 Posted by arjun_m on April 5, 2001 5:29:51 pm
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#92 Posted by Urstruly on April 5, 2001 4:36:59 pm
Scout # 90
Try to mimick the good writing skills of Zahra; then Chowk wont throw your responses into the waste basket :)
Zahra: You rule.
Try to mimick the good writing skills of Zahra; then Chowk wont throw your responses into the waste basket :)
Zahra: You rule.
#91 Posted by Eklavya on April 5, 2001 4:03:23 pm
Bias.
While we are on the subject of bias, has anyone ever known Barbara Crossette of NYT to write an article that cast India in a positive light?
Just curious :)
While we are on the subject of bias, has anyone ever known Barbara Crossette of NYT to write an article that cast India in a positive light?
Just curious :)
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