Sher Shah Suri

yasser,
Unlike most of your articles ,I dont agree with you .I dont think Sher Shah Suri should be glorified ,or identified on the same lines as Ashoka.The difference between the former and the a latter is like chalk and cheese.
After the massacre of kalinga Emperor ashoka underwent a spiritual transformation.He became a man of peace ,a man who believed in service to his people.
Sher Shah Suri ,although a brilliant Military strategician was not a great ruler.Do you recall the massacre of surrendered Rajputs of the Malwa.

I think Timurlame,ghori ,ghaznavi,abdali and sher shah were all muslim invaders.They are painful part of Indian History.Recently on the History channel they were showing how timur massacred 80,000 infidels or kafirs in delhi and made a pyramid of skulls.Jesus thats barbaric and cruel.I wish Hindus were more united and agressive and perhaps more cruel in regard to their agressors.
Anyway lets not get stuck with the past.Times have changed............

Regards
Nandan

Correction:

``And hold fast to the rope of Allah and don`t go astray`` is wrong and should read.

``And hold fast to the rope of Allah and don`t create differences``

Only meaning and my translation.

Farangi Kush# I am neither firmly rooted in Islam nor moored (can you explain this grammarian English).

I am a Muslim by tradition. And my reading of Islam is also rooted in the tradition. And that had no effect on me, as far as my outlook towards world is concerned.

First I was and am Sunni. I lived with Iranians, mostly Shias. Then I came here in US with much different faiths and outlook.

But even before that due to some severe circumstances, I had to take the help of God or God helped me.

Since that time my belief in God as all powerful, creator of all things, and God of Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Shias, Sunnis of all creations has strengthened.

The thing which I found is that Ayah ``And hold fast to the rope of Allah and don`t go astray`` although commented by scholars as referring to Quran in my humble opinion is related to Allah Himself. For every action, every movement, I know that I have to respond to God in the hereafter. And that is why I am away from Islamic bias or for that matter MQM bias. Justifying actions of Muslims because they are Muslims or justifying actions of a person because he/she belong to my community.

That is why you will find my posts awkward.

I don`t know whether I am right or wrong. Only time will proove it.

Progress or subjugation of universe in my opinion is a task for which human is destined. Or more knowledge. Whether it comes from Muslims, or Christians or Hindu does not matter.

For me Shia Islam historically has been twisted to keep their adherents in the group, but its historical anti-establishment policy has been its positive point.

Sunni Islam though more fundamental in beliefs has been twisted to suit the rulers and that has been its drawback.

But ultimately both will lead to the same final point.

``La Ilaha Illallah``

Which has been the message of all prophets from Adam to Mohammed PBUH.

Those are my humble opinions and only God knows better.

Wassalam.

krashid:

You are firmly anchored to Islam and proudly moored as a muslim.The route one takes or recommends after this is all for the love of it.

So your disagreements & displeasures at some of my determinedly `aashiquan` viewpoints are honey & sugar to me.

``kissi ka dard ho kurtay hain teray naam raquam

gilla hai jo bhee kissi sey,teray sububb sey hai``

Your heart is obviously on the right side.Once that is decided the rest is just details.

wassalaam

Siagalph 235 #908

Being youthful is not a criteria for logical or illogical thinking.

First, American foreign and Internal policies are a necessity of corporate America, which have been achieved over the centuries by the hard struggles of so called liberals, mostly blacks and women in America. As far as the foreign policy of America is concerned it is also driven by the same concern. It does not matter whether liberal Mosaddaq was worse than fair king Shah of Iran which America supported. Or Saudi king regime is better than the opponents who are struggling for their voice.

For the majority of people in our region, if they have to succeed, they have to look for their destiny and interest in their own homeland and country.

As far as Iran is concerned, it was a revolution against Imperialism or American interest in Iran which was detrimental for the progress of majority of Iranian people. Now an independent Iran is carving its own destiny. First there is surge in moderate elements and people are fighting for their rights on all fronts and are successful. Second inspite of the previous fundamentalism, one thing which kept fundamentalist in power was their commitment to the education, infrastructural building and rural development. Those things are paying Iran now in the form of a strong rising midle class and more enlightenement. That is what third world countries need.

Third world don`t needs puppet of American interest. They need puppet of people`s interest.

Ref ylh #: 913

[India is indeed a Democracy, but let us not forget that One Man One vote policy is also being abused there.

65 years ago, VeerSavarkar had also put forth the ideal of one man one vote so that the Hindu Majority will perpetually rule.]

Using the same logic, the US adopted one-man, one-vote so that WASPS would rule in perpetuity and the UK adopted one-man, one-vote so that the English could lord it over the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish.

Hasn`t prevented the Hispanic population from exploding in the US and already being the majority in New Mexico, with California to follow soon. Hasn`t prevented cities like San Francisco, New York, LA, Chicago, Washington, DC, etc., from electing blacks as mayors.

Hasn`t prevented the Irish, the Welsh and the Scots from demanding devolution in unitary England and winning it.

I see less and less value in a Rutgers education. Do you want to try and transfer to some other school?

Sigalph,

I totally agree with what you have stated. India is indeed a Democracy, but let us not forget that One Man One vote policy is also being abused there.

65 years ago, VeerSavarkar had also put forth the ideal of one man one vote so that the Hindu Majority will perpetually rule. The rise of Hindu fundamentalism is definitely a step in the direction of fascism... Dont you agree?

-YLH

Krashid,

I totally agree that Bhutto`s downfall was the caused in no small measure by his efforts to create such a block.

However, there are two things I want to stress:

1) We will have to make this block a Pan-Muslim instead of a Pan-Islamic Block,

2) The leadership of this block should be an ally to the west and not its enemy.

3) The Block should harbor any fantasies of Islamic Empire all over the world but should be contained in its borders.

4) States should retain maximum sovereignty.

5) Gradual but persistent movement towards a Pan-ThirdWorld deal should be achieved.

Pakistan Zindabad

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YLH #906

Your approach is good.

I think one of the reason of downfall of Bhutto (Z.A) was his pan Islamic approach with its attendent risks to West.

I think, it is the need of the hour.

The only problem is once it starts working, its agenda may be hijacked by so called Islamist. a la Pakistan.

re krashid

Doctor sahib, I am perhaps both youthfully idealistic and naively direct when I disagree with your analysis of Iran. It is indeed moving in the right direction, but when you hit the bottom of medievalism there is no other direction to go. A theocracy where unelected zealots reserve the right to interpret God`s will for all of us is a model of development that I hope most countries avoid.

As for India, it will remain a democracy USA notwithstanding. I know it is quite fashionable in leftist circles to blame the US for killing democracy in Iran and Chile and Algeria etc etc. I don`t buy that socialist nonsense. Allende and Mosaddegh and the FIS were democrats in the fashion of Herr Hitler: one man, one vote, one time. India, compared to them, has been holding hundreds of elections where parties change power specially at the state level.

It is an extremely bitter pill for us non-Indian South Asians to admit but the fact is, and the world recognizes, that for all its myriad faults India is a democracy. And so is the United States.

And if it is not clear dear Kabuliwallah, one of the Major reasons I am promoting a Muslim Union instead of an Afro-Asian Union, is because the greatest short term threat to Pakistan in my opinion is from India,... in an Afro-Asian Union we will not be able to stop India from entering, but in a Muslim Union we can exclude you guys... it is a matter of self interest, and has nothing to do with hatred towards India, or religious based loyalties.

-Yasser

So What do I mean by a Union of Muslim Countries as opposed to one single Huge Muslim state... Nobody is going to interpret or dictate any Islam or Constitution. The Union itself can only deal in three things 1) Economic Cooperation, 2) Defence, and 3) Foreign Policy, leaving all states to their own agendas. To answer your and Sigalph`s question, I think the Muslim Union in its formative phase should only include countries with Muslim Majorities ie where the Muslim Community is the largest. Hence India is not included.

I have no love for Arabs or anyone else, I think this is a practical solution to the problems posed by the competition of the rapidly growing Economies of US, and Europe.. and the rise of the ICBM making neighbours.

Why a Muslim Union is necessary is simple, ... Religion can serve to bring these nations together, but that doesnot mean that every Muslim in the World will be a citizen and a member of this Union. The citizens of such a union will involve both Muslim and Non Muslim citizens of the Muslim Majority states, and no other Muslims. Hence Indian-Muslims and Muslim Americans will have no stake in such a union.

History has ample evidence especially in Turkish War of Independence, and the Pakistan Movement, that Islam, if not rammed down peoples` throats, can become a very effective Unifier. I am not suggesting a system which is viable in theory but a suggesting a system which is viable in practice.

It is in the common interest of all Muslim States and all citizens of those Muslim States regardless of religion caste or creed, that these Muslim States come together in a Muslim Economic Union and possibly a defence one also. In short I am suggesting a ``Cabinet Mission`` type scheme for all Muslim Countries and later all third world countries (excluding India and China because they are already one billion each and hence powers in their own accord).. so that we can together create an Economy, and a world which is safe for all.

Such a Union, idealistic as it may seem, will pave the way for a safer world because you will contain and marginalize fanatics amongst Muslims while providing a very effective counterbalance to the rising Hindu fundamentalism in India.

As for what Islam? Well I think such a Union will celebrate the existence of secular Muslim Majority states like Turkey, accept the middle paths of states like Pakistan, and yet allow for medieval monarchies like Saudi Arabia. One day, Economic prosperity and social stability will lead to greater consciousness and education amongst people

allowing them to transform all states of the Muslim World into full fledge Secular states. By then hopefuly, the threats of Hindu fundamentalism etc and these Muslim States (and third world states) will be at parity with the US and Europe. At that point maybe we can talk of expanding these Unions into a World Economic Union and a Confederation of the United States of the World.

Thus such a step will eventually lead to a United Humanity..... in a few centuries.

-YLH

ylh #902

There are some very interesting development in the region.

There is increasing co-operation between Iran and other Arab countries.

I think Iranian leadership of OPEC during last year, leading to rise in oil prices probably has changed the thinking of Arab countries. Moreover the moderate regime of Khatami probably believes in economic based politics.

I think Arab countries slowly want to come out of the shadows of America to keep their profit intact. And with further Industrialization of rest of world oil demand will increase.

Your idea is good and makes sense economically. If the wealth of Arab Nations is invested prudently especially in Muslim countries rather than rotting in American banks, it can have a positive impact on overall economy of Muslim world.

Siagalph235:

You have probably very wrong notions regarding Iran. Iran is one of a few countries in the world who dictate their own policies. Although there is a rift between fundamentalists and moderates , but it surely is progressing in the right direction. The country which at one time was dependent on foreign countries for skilled labour is now self sufficient. Their initiative for education and infrastructural building is going to strengthen Iran in a more substantial way.

As far as India is concerned. Let America put its foot there, dictatorship will automatically come.

re: ylh # 902

Come on man, who is going to set the constitution of this group of Muslim countries?...does the country HAVE to be muslim majority to join, initially even?...or can it be a muslim minority...if the country is muslim majority, how muslim?...in the sense that how do they interpret Islam?...like Turkey or Taliban?...would the members be Islamic or Muslim...do you think their outlook on issues would be the same?...and then what about those countries, which might be significant players and mostly non-Muslim, who have had a history of conflict with one or more of the countries in this group and located in the vicinity of the members of this group?...should they feel insecure?...if not, why should they feel secure?...and what gives this group the right to patronize other third world countries in giving them entry only later?...why not at the start?...do you think you would have liked it if the UN initially constituted countries only from the West and then later decided to ALLOW third world countries in?...do you mean to imply (by not letting `em in at the start and only giving them membership when it is ``firmly in place``) that non-Musliim countries would by their nature be opposed to this group of Muslim countries?...if that is the case, then why?...just curious


I know exactly what `secular` means...I also know that this word has been raped over and over by politicians in India...but that is another matter...seriously tell me, what percentage of Muslim countries are secular?...if Islamic countries are to play a role in this group, would religion not play a significant if not a dominant role?


Kabuli

re ylh and D8

I hope your exams went well. Have a good summer wherever you are.

Please don`t consider the following comments condescending. Perhaps they are just a result of seeing idealism and relaism collide. But frankly, this D8 thing is another illusion like OIC, Arab League or SAARC or the Indian Ocean Initiative-you name it. A lot of money wasted,a lot of junkets for diplomats and bureaucrats, a lot of nonsensical resolutions not worth the paper they are printed on.

Fundamentally, it is questionable because it brings pariah nations like Iran into it. If progressive Muslim majority countries are to come into the 21st century, they can only do so in the company of societies where political and economic freedom is at least given lip service. India and Turkey are such countries. Iran and Nigeria are not.And speaking of D8 let`s not forget that India is probably the 3rd or 4th biggest Muslim.

Only Pakistan can improve Pakistan. The only help that is worth is that of other democracies and free economies. The rest, OIC, D8, are of extremely limited value.

Dear Mr Kabuliwallah,

Sir,

The Union of Muslim Countries I had proposed is already underway www.d8net.org , and why do you suppose it will non-secular? I believe that the Union of Muslim countries that I propose I believe that the Muslim Nations need to organize themselves but I dont believe in this Union being exclusionary. Once firmly in place the next step in evolution would be to open it to other countries of Non Muslim and Non Asian origin.

I dont know why you are playing secular vs non secular game in this particular proposal.

The thesaurus words for secular for your benefit:

1) Earthly

2) Non Spiritual

3) Civic

4) Non Religious

The Union that I had proposed had nothing to do with religion except for that common religious beliefs will initially serve to bring these countries together. Slowly this Muslim Union will have to give way to a third world Union.

-LONG LIVE PAKISTAN

Krashid,

I have started to read Mr Beg`s article.... thankyou for suggesting it :)

-YLH

re: ylh # 899

I think Muslims derive a sort of pride out of being labelled as `jehadi`...I think it makes them feel heroic and manly...certainly, it might have a negative connotation in the West, where the meaning of Jehad has been distorted, but in your own country, a Jehadi, I am sure, would be met with respect and awe


On the other hand, the word you used, bania, will be met with displeasure by most Hindus, in India or anywhere...maybe except of course, Hindus belonging to the Vaishya caste...even they would, I think, rather not use `baniya` because of the negative connotations of the word...isn`t it surprising that Muslims stereotype Hindus (I certainly haven`t seen the West stereotyping Hindus as banias) by giving them a casteist term while they tom tom all over town that they don`t believe in caste?...well most South Asian Muslims anyways


on the ICBM issue, if India was making ICBMs to get its way with its neighbours, then all the major disputes between countries with ICBMs and their neighbours would be over by now...China has them...Taiwan still rages on...Russia has `em...Chechnya continues to fester...



Pakistan should not feel insecure if India (God forbid) acquires ICBMs...if you want to anyways, thats your problem...like you yourself said, the range of an ICBM is far too large to hurt Pakistan or even Islamic and Muslim countries...so please, stop approriating Pakistan with importance that it does not have...everything that India does is not aimed against Pakistan...I`d rather India compete with mighty China than Pakistan...but that doesn`t satisfy Pakistan does it?...it wants to be reckoned important enough to lock horns with India...but then again whines about how India is responsible for all the problems in the subcontinent...please grow up....and take responsibility for your actions


And as for a Union of Muslim countries, if that ever happens, non-Muslim and secular- democratic countries will have to form a group of their own to counter it...for Islamic and Muslim countries are not free of fanaticism of their own...eent ka jawab patthar se

Kabuli

YLH #899

Beta Nazren Kahin Aur Nishana Kahin Thaa.

(With apology Beta is used in colloquial terms of Lalukhati style).

Did you read India Unvarnished by Mr. Baig on Chowk.

It is echoeing the same thoughts you have presented.

Krashid,

Thankyou so much sir for your heartwarming comments. Needless to say, your kind post is one of the very few encouraging posts I receive. I hope I live upto your expectations and be worthy of your praise.

Kabuliwallah,

The stereotype of a Muslim is ``crazed War monger fanatic waging a war in the name of Allah`` or in other words a ``Jehadi``. The stereotype of a Hindu unfortunately is ``a person with acute business sense, who is very miserly and calculating about his or her money. In short a Bania is similar to Shylock of the merchant of Venice``.

So you see how I was comparing the two words?

India is making ICBMs not because it is surrounded in enemies because the ICBMs, (Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles) have a range much greater than required to target Pakistan, China, Myanmar, Bangladesh or even any Islamic Country. The range of the ICBM enables India to target Europe and the US.

Clearly India is making ICBMs to bully the world into accepting its terms on Kashmir, and basically leave it alone to slap Pakistan around.

So you see your reply was most unfortunate because I have already refuted that argument. It is not out of security threat that India is making ICBMs.

Pakistan doesnot need to make ICBMs... what Pakistan needs to do is promote a Union of Muslim Countries based on the European Union Model, for the rise of Hindu Fanaticism, despite all constitutional safeguards in India is obvious.

-YLH

Ref Studebaker #: 893

[What are you suggesting that all brahmins are supposed to be smarter than me or any Dalits?]

I have never once made that claim in any of my posts.

[If you think some Brahmins seat was given to me because i was A MUSLIM,rest assured that never happened.]

I didn`t say that either.

[In fact i faced much more hardship than brahmin or Dalit hindu .On technicality i had been sidelined even though my score, academics recommendations were excellent from the beginning.In one instence the university chancellor ,told me on the face that he would give my seat to a refugee from pakistan with lesser credentials.

Finally ,i accepted my third choice even when my standing assured me 1st choice ,WHICH ANY BRAHMIN WITH MY CREDENTIALS WOULD HAVE GOTTEN HANDS DOWN!!]

If you want to compare notes, I graduated in the First Division at the time of entry into college. I was one of 425 students to do so; there were 975 engineering seats at that time in my home state. I did not get one of those seats. I had to look around for a college that would admit students on an All-India basis, leave my home state to go study there. I graduated in top 2% of the graduating class in engineering in that state (not the specific college I attended but in the entire state).

You claim a Brahmin would have gotten his choice hands sown. I have to disagree based on the personal experience narrated above.

Those of us who have been treated in this way have no problem with that. In fact, it is rather easy to spot those who make it despite disadvantages. They tend to persevere and they have the respect of those who were admitted ahead of them on political/caste considerations. They also get noticed by employers who don`t put any store by the social policies of the govt but want the best employees.

re: scout # 813

``Don`t tell me you`ve never uttered something negative about Pakistan in retaliation to something negative about India?...Whatever I have said about India has been in retaliation to what an Indian has said to me. I`m not going to sit like a `bheegi billi` and shut up when someone`s degrading my identity.``

Then why all the b!tch!ing about the abuse hurled at mothers and sisters?...how are you ANY different from those who abuse mothers and sisters?...now understand what I meant by consistency?...why the pretension of superior moral authority?...if you can hurl abuse at another country to retaliate for what someone said about your country, then why can`t somebody do the same to someone`s female relative to retaliate against what that someone said about that person`s female relative?...though I am ashamed of myself for stooping to chuggad`s level, I only dished out what he started...my question is, what should a person think of you, for whom his country is more important than any relative?...if you are sensitive enough to feel about mothers and sisters, are you sensitive enough to think of others` nationalistic feelings?...in any case, I have always said that Indians and Pakis should stay out of each others` affairs...you yourself have commended me for this in the past.

If you are going to be consistent with your logic, then please sermonize about anything you want...but if are going to be an occasional turd, then please spare us the billicrap

Kabuli

re: ylh # 811

dude do you seriously think bania and jehadi mean the same, even in an analogical sense?

A Jehadi in reality or when used in language is sacrificing himself, wrongly or rightly...the word bania when used in language is used to describe a selfish and calculating person...if you want a word that is parallel to Jehadi in the Indian context, then try Kar Sevak


Why is India making ICBMs?...ummm, lets see, maybe because India is surrounded by enemies?...now Pakiland is giving naval assistance to Myanmar?...lets see, what the hell does Pakiland and Myanmar have in common?...maybe both are run by dictators?....but I do agree with you that ICBMs will be a huge drain on India`s resources, which could be better spent on primary education...and also, they will increase the insecurity of ummm, US, Europe or the far east of China?...but definitely not Pakistan...its an ICBM for crying out loud...if India has to nuke China, will Pakiland also have to nuke China?

Gymnosophist #891

Just an observation.

The number of Muslim doctors coming from India is begligible at least not one in ten as far as my residency program goes and I know of other places.

If a Hindu person is not admitted to Medical coleege, that does not make the statistics in favor of Muslims.

Ref headshrinker #: 890

[Heheh...still sore about that huh?! Good...made my day!]

Nope. Still laughing at you.

You have no credibility whatsoever.

Didn`t you make the ridiculous claim that you were discriminated against in India? Let us see: your dad is a doc, your brother is a doc and you also claim to be quack. So, with three doctors in the family, where did you experience discrimination? You mean, God ran out of brains when it came your turn? Maybe it was intentional.

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Ref krashid #: 888

[Scout #880

You have some wrong assumptions.

After the verdict in late 80,s by New York (or supreme court) the doctor came in large number. Before that it was not so easy.]

The green card for doctors was easy from mid-1960s to 1976. That is when the great liberal Sen. Ted Kennedy sponsored legislation at the instigation of the AMA that stopped green cards for doctors (unless they are married to US citizens or green card holders). Simultaneouly, the AMA forced major cuts in residency programs so that the flood of doctors who beat the 1976 law with hours to spare were unable to get into training programs for several years. To this day, doctors only come here on H1-B or J-1 visas. J-1 requires them to return to their home countries for at least 2 years. You can get waivers by agreeing to serve in American Indian reservations or in godforsaken places. But enough loopholes exist so that the newer doctors can still manage to get their green cards. Times between 1976 and 2985 were particularly tough for foreign doctors.

But the interesting thing is that Studebaker claims to have experienced discrimination in India, or ``the belly of the beast`` as he prefers to call it. As member of a 13% minority group, he gets into a competitive professional field whereas as an upper casteman cannot get into medical college in most states in India. I am wondering who has the right to cry discrimination.

harimou,

{{He misunderstood my post about, ``I drive a Jag`` as boasting from me and came back with a boasting of his own. Normal male behavior, I would think.

Maybe I should have said ``I have a beautiful wife`` or ``I dip my hiney in the waters off Allahabad``. Perhaps then you will all catch on.}}

Heheh...still sore about that huh?! Good...made my day!

scout,

The nerve of these guys--pouncing on you just because you appealed to them to be more respectful of women & elders! Love the way you hold your own.

heheh--all these jerks trying to tussle with my jalapeno cybersis get castrated.

FYI, to all those guys who pounced on her for making disparaging remarks about Indian women. I distinctly remember scouty apologising for it. Besides, which of us has`nt put our foot in our mouth?

Saxena,

Wall street is giving you heartaches these days; dont it?! All those stockbrokers getting laid off an`all. Nobody is buying your pretzels. Maybe because you coat them with coconut oil.

Wee bit jealous of desi docs; arent we?! Didnt your mommy tell you to study hard & become a doctor? Poor lady. Knowing your personality, you probably picked a fight with her as well. Serves you right. I bet she`s very proud of you selling pretzels out of a pushcart on Wall Street.

Harimau #

What is wrong, if I am acting as in interpreter of YLH.

He is the most talented, highly read person, who buttresses his arguments with facts and figures.

In fact there is no other interactor on chowk who can compete with him.

And plenty of abuse towards YLH on his to the point posts is sufficient proof that he speaks the truth.

Scout #880

You have some wrong assumptions.

After the verdict in late 80,s by New York (or supreme court) the doctor came in large number. Before that it was not so easy.

Second doctors or any other professional will go where the money is. It is not the fault of doctors that they came here, but American Government which is not producing enough doctors at home.

Third the doctors in Pakistan although do not spend a large amount of money, but it is a very competitive field.

You can judge from the fact that out of 80,000 students who appeared for exam, 450 got admission into medical college.

Although it is true that the family support takes care of lot of problems and a person can concentrate on studies.

But it is a very tough job, to get admission in medical college as far as hard work is concerned.

Hope it relieves some misconception.

Moreover the ``Thaat Bat`` of doctors in America is not the fault of doctors themselves as you will recognize.

In our countries doctors live in much poverty than in USA.

RSridhar #886

You are still waiting?

YLH let`s repeat the stories upteenth time.

A for apple. B for Bat . J for Jalim.

:-), :-)

``Because the Dalai Lama understands that what happened 1500 years ago is not relevant``.

ylh,

Dalai Lama is in India because he understand what ``really`` happened 1500 years ago. Which is to say,there have been no problems ever between the 2 religions. Sometimes ago you said you will post evidence from history about hindu atrocities against buddhists. I am still waiting.

sridhar

``.. Does China justify ICBMs? You dont need ICBMs to target CHina... not ICBMs with 20000 km range``.

ylh,

Yes, China justifies ICBM. China is a huge country. Only an ICBM has a sure shot range to penetrate to say Beijing. For starters, a range of 5000 miles would do. I doubt if India would ever go in for a say 20,000 km range missile even if it could. Doing that would immediately raise questions in USA. Today, India and USA have a lot in common and there is no need to antagonise that country. India may however go in for say a technology demonstration of a long range missile and then say that they have the capability but they won`t produce these missiles. This kind of ambiguity has worked well in the past.

You say China was never as poor as India. What is being as poor. All i say is China has been and still is a poor country, its rapid industrialisation in the last 10 years notwithstanding.

sridhar

Ref scout #: 880

Go easy on Doctor Studebaker, will you?

He misunderstood my post about, ``I drive a Jag`` as boasting from me and came back with a boasting of his own. Normal male behavior, I would think.

Maybe I should have said ``I have a beautiful wife`` or ``I dip my hiney in the waters off Allahabad``. Perhaps then you will all catch on.

Re: scout

``Desi doctors who came here during the seventies and late eighties got good jobs, made a lot of money, didn`t have to pay any student loans, and now they brag about it like they`re the best thing to happen to this world.``

Money without class looks pretty cheap - that`s what many of them exemplify. You can spot them from far at any desi gathering. (And their wives too...they`ll be the ones with the most obnoxious looking thick, gold jewelry.)

``If only they had suffered through the eight years of medical and financial hell medical students here do.``

A lot of them would have never been accepted to a respectable US medical school. Unlike desi med schools, the ones here want well-rounded people, not just bookworms (although that`s great too).

Siraj

Kindly refrain from hurling abuses. Hindu Nationalism has more parallels with Nazism then any other ideology.

-YLH

MrRsaxena,

I have been more than patient with you. Had you read, it the extermination of Buddhism was brought in context of History and had nothing to do with the POLITICAL context.

-YLH

rsaxena #873,

Desi doctors who came here during the seventies and late eighties got good jobs, made a lot of money, didn`t have to pay any student loans, and now they brag about it like they`re the best thing to happen to this world. If only they had suffered through the eight years of medical and financial hell medical students here do.

I`ve seen this phenomenon time and time again, as exemplified by mr. studebaker. I wouldn`t call him an idiot though.

Re: ylh

``Because the Dalai Lama understands that what happened 1500 years ago is not relevant.``

Then why are you bringing it up? To say what? Dude have you considered taking summer classes at another university? Rutgers is failing you.

Re Layman #870

Point taken. I wish you would acknowledge that this is a two way street.

On the ``Indians seem to want to connect only with India..`` and ``So what`s wrong with that``

What`s wrong with it is the demand and the dissapointment Indians feel when Pakistanis argue that there`s more to the our heritages than just India.

A curious development has taken place among a section of Indians. They seem to feel that by virtue of a very large population that they are entitled the adoration of the neighbors. In my opinion, while nobody likes to think of themselves as the ``heavy`` of the scene, Indians and Pakistani should work towards handshakes and not hugs. Handshakes are challenge enough.

Re: sigalph

``If you cannot defend your SPECIFIC allegation without fudging the specifics, you ought to admit so. I don`t need to defend Rsaxena; he does it himself well or ill. He and I disagree on 60 per cent of the issues. Question him on something he has actually said and it might be interesting.``

Thank you. Who cares what she says anyway...not much credibility left.

Layman # 870:

``But I for one wish Pakistanis were more aware or recognised our shared heritage``

Why? Why do you care? Who wants to have anything in common with Pakistanis? The sooner Indians wearing rose tinted glasses realise that culturally, psychologically and mentally Pakistanis are more Arabic and part of the global Muslim community and are not really like Indians, the better!

Indians like you are so desparate and.....oh well, I will leave it at that....

Studebaker, do you mean to say you are a neurologist? Oh boy! Aha...and all the while we were wondering....

Chief Executive YLH :

`` See you can be Hindu without being a Bania``

Whats the obsession with Banias, Paki-Nazi? Is it like the generic term of abuse for all Hindus that you get taught in Pakistan? Like the grasping anti-semitic Jew pictured in Nazi textbooks? I am interested to know, PakiNazi....

hobbytv#: 859

``Please consider using herbal laxatives before resorting to such desperate measures`` & attatched dirge about why cant we all just love each other....

Look what your country has done/is doing to Afghanistan! Get off your victim complex and grow up man, your entire nation is steeped in hatred for India and Hindus, from your mothers milk it is imbibed and until you are buried it nourishes you.....

Seriously, a Paki telling an Indian not to hate?? Wonders never cease.....

Re: studebaker

``THAT WAS MY 2ND CAR IN AMERICA AND NOW I AM IN MY 10 TH NEW car -BEEMER & ANTIQUE STUDEBAKER -

HAVE CHK ED THE GOING RATE OF BOARDED NEUROLOGIST IN U.S.A ?????``

You look like a board certified id1ot bragging about what car you have and how much money you make. Such a desi thing to do.

Reply #: 856 nameless

(``Benifer, cherrrrie`` you and your lil sisters better remain that (lil), see in the grown up world there are newspapers like Dawn, News etc which you can search and find the relevant news clips. Oh BTW lil, cherrrrrie these are pakistani newspapers and not the harami bania newspapers from bania-land or the zionist-jewish newspapers of the west.

lil cherrie, there are plenty of lil red tamatars flying around one may land on you and make you red and I hope there are no dunderheads who take it into their heads to issue a fatwa in your favour for loosing your lil dignity! but then theres urstruly and others around to do that so beware lil cherrie......)

friend sweets...we`re very happy being what we are...`lil`..coz see.. in our lil world we dont feel the need to use the ugly words that you grown up men from the tomamto world use..did I in any way provoke u to use the `h` word? hmmmn? and just for the record..when you say something, YOU provide the references et all...know what im sayin? also hunnny, its not like im going to be executed persecuted prosecuted whatever, if a tomato comes flying at me or i go skipping to my car or even choose to do a certain dance step in the car...ppl will turn around and roll their eyes or smile(yesyes we silly Pakistanis know how to do that!!!)they wont drag me out of the car and take me to the nearest police thana...come to karachi...I`d love to show you how it is...I`ll even take you to the tomato market thats put up every tuesday

oh and thats miss binifer and miss lil sister to you

ylh:

Seriously, I dont know the reason why India wants to build ICBMs. There must be some strategic funda behind it... also building it should not be too difficult, as we can reuse the learnings from our space programme.

Sure it diverts resources that could otherwise go to meeting our basic needs. But thankfully our nuclear or missile programs do not cost as much as the American or Russian ones...

I dont think ICBMs are the most wasteful expenditure for India - bloated bureaucracy and corruption are more harmful. Eg: the number of employees in IA/AI per aircraft is about ten times or more that of other countries. Less than ten paise of every development rupee reaches the poor. Just think - if even 50 paise per rupee reached the intended beneficiary, we would have five times as much schools, dispensaries etc for the same money!

hobbyty #839:

``Are you not being extremely selective when you suggest that only Indians and Pakistani share a heritage - don`t Afhgans and assorted Turkic peoples share a heritage with Pakistanis and indians.``

They do. So do Bangladeshis, Nepalis and Sri Lankans too. But my post was restricted to Indians and Pakistanis.

``Indians seem to want to connect only with the territory of India...``

What`s wrong with that? Do you want Akhand Bharat to cover other regions too? ;-) And Indians/Hindus itself being a geographic description, which other land would they `connect` with?

``..., whereas Pakistani connect with the entire Muslim ummah. I am at a loss to understand why this fact bothers Indians so much.``

I`m not sure if it bothers Indians in general. But I for one wish Pakistanis were more aware or recognised our shared heritage. I`d like to highlight Bangladesh as an example. Sure it is a Muslim country, but it does recognize its shared roots with India (Bengal) in terms of culture, history, music, literature etc. Maybe sigalph can throw more light on this - I think India-BD views on history are not different - our heroes are not their villains and vice-versa.

Ref Studebaker #: 865

[ATLAST IN 4 DAYS ,COMES UP WITH JAG AS ANSWER,]

Busy with other things, Doc, such as talking about ICBMs.

My answer (I drive a Jag) was enclosed in quotes. You need to figure out why I said that! I have been quite patriotic and have been driving only well-made American cars.

[ANTIQUE STUDEBAKER]

I used to have an Olds Delta 88 once. Monster that had a 455 CID engine. Those were the days!

YLH #854:

``Because the Dalai Lama understands that what happened 1500 years ago is not relevant.``

But, how is it relevant what happened 500 years back (Sher Shaw Suri) or for that matter 60 - 70 years back (Jinnah).

How illogical can you get?

sigalph235,

i apologize for thinking you were indian. my bad.

but i still stand behind what i said in my post.

don`t make me go back into chowk history and pull out exactly crap rsaxena has said about islam and muslims.

anyway, i don`t really care what he says anymore.

you can`t stop a pavlovian dog from salivating at the sound of a bell.

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Dear Inyourface,

You say something on the lines, ``why did Dalai Lama come to such fascist country XYZ etc etc``

Now since when did India become a fascist country? But can anyone tell me why Mr Fitz Haber, the Jewish genius, invent the Haber process for Nazi Germany?

Anyone?

re scout 850

``Oh please, that`s quite a stretch for defending Rsaxena. He`s made fun of and passed rude comments aobut Islam time and time again. Are you blind?``

I have 20/20 vision. You may not, it seems from your post. I am not an Indian or a Hindu; if you haven`t noticed that...I know a pretty good eye doctor from Pakistan. The same Pakistan that my grandparents created out of their sweat, sacrifice, tears, and blood. You gotta get out more often, ma`am: everybody who`s not a Pakistani is not automatically an Indian.

Of course Rsaxena has made rude comments about Islam. But he has not called Islam a terrorist religion as you claim. If you cannot defend your SPECIFIC allegation without fudging the specifics, you ought to admit so. I don`t need to defend Rsaxena; he does it himself well or ill. He and I disagree on 60 per cent of the issues. Question him on something he has actually said and it might be interesting.

That said, scout, I do not mean to be sharp with a lady here. I have endorsed your calls to decorum about women in this very board because it is beneath us to use some of the filthy language that has been used about our sisters and mothers. Here, it seems, we have a disagreement. C`est la vie, madamoiselle!

On Muhammad Bin Qasim :

Vidya Dhar Mahajan writes in the book

``Muslim Rule in India`` second edition 1965 Chand and company New Dehli Page 21

``The previleges of the zimmi (Hebrews and christians) were given to Hindus and Buddhists of Sindh. The infidel were also taken into civil and military service. A large number of Hindus were employed in the revenue service The new policy was given in these words ``The temples shall be inviolate like the churches of the christians, synods of the Jews and the altars of the Magians.``

Dr Ishwari Prasad says

``The story of Muhammad bin Qasim`s invasion is one of the romances of History. His blooming youth, his dash, and heroism, hi noble deportment throughout the expedition and his tragic fall have invested his career with halo martyrdom.``

Page 18

More Quotes from ``Indian-Hindu`` Authors` books will follow... See you can be Hindu without being a Bania... just like we can be Muslims without being fundamentalists!

Ref krashid #: 846

[India can inflict irreparable damage not only to China and America but is also doing it to its own people.

It is not certain whether India will do irreparable damage to China or America or not.]

As the Chinese are fond of telling the Americans, `how would you like LA to be smoking ruins?` All it needs to get any country to behave is to demonstrate the ability to hit one major population/industrial center. Pakistan can hit all of India with its Ghauri missiles. India can hit all of Pakistan with its Agni sitting in far-away Andhra or Orissa. An ICBM is NOT aimed at Pakistan because its range is too long. An ICBM is aimed at farther reaches in China such as Beijing, Shanghai, Harbin and at Europe and USA. Even Moscow. Who knows how the world will turn out in the next 15 years?

[But it is doing irreparable damage to Indian people even today.]

Enough money is being spent on social issues in India. But it is state controlled. If you see Tamilians, Kannadigas and Telugus in large numbers in the IT industry today, that is because these states spent their money on education. Kerala has attained 100% literacy. On the other hand, West Bengal wasted its time for 25 years fighting the industrialists till they moved their factories out of Calcutta and the Bengalis are reduced to looking for jobs outside Bengal. The Central Government is not going to dictate to the states how to allocate their budgets. The irreparable damage to Indian people is not due to the money spent on ICBMs but money being stolen on a grand scale in Bihar and Uttar Pradesh.

You guys want to match India`s ICBM without having a clue what uses it might be put to. You have a problem. India knows where it wants to go with the ICBM program and you can`t stop it by saying India is starting an arms race. There is no race if Pakistan refuses to participate in the race.

By the way, I don`t see Pakistan in the Space Race nor was there any noise when India launched its GSLV rocket last month. I don`t see an Education Race. I don`t see a Human Rights Race. Pakistan can choose to start or participate in such races.

[And that is the question of YLH.]

You acting as an interpreter for YLH? That is a laugh.

Re:binifer #: 851

``nameless sweets...do tell where u got this interesting little bit of information..its tickled me immensely and my sisters guffawing behind me like it were going out of style..``

Among others:

http://www.vijayinkargil.org/today/16july1.html

Excerpt:

``The Indian Army recovered 249 dead bodies from the areas of operations. 197 dead bodies were given burial as per military norms and as per religious rites, 47 dead bodies that were found in shallow trenches were also provided religious rites and five bodies were accepted by Pakistan. This included the dead body of Captain Karnal Sher of 12 Northern Light Infantry Battalion. The ceremonial burial accorded to the dead body of this NLI officer was also covered by the Pakistan television and seen all over the world.``

Re Siraj 848

``These ICBM`s have a purpose after all``.

Please consider using herbal laxatives before resorting to such desperate measures.

Yes Sir, Pakistanis are scared of ICBM`s and such, scare us more and we will respond in kind. It`s not enough that the Indian state has problems with the Hindu Kingdom of Nepal, Buddhist Sri Lanka, Islamic Bangladesh and Pakistan; it now publicly describes China as enemy number one, against whom ICBM`s must be arraigned. Rationality seems to have given way to nationalist chauvinism. Heady times, but as surely as the sun will rise in the East, all balloons burst. A time for introspection and civility will come.

Where does all this hate so many Indians express come from? and why do they feel it is OK to express hate and then to, at a site such as chowk?

Do Indians express such hate in India?

The few Pakistani and Indians who at least try to be civil even while differing are being made mince meat of by very angry young men on both sides. No one benefits, just an endless stream of fear expressed in ``mine`s bigger``. Some one`s always bigger.

KSHIT!

Forget about my IQ and worry about your reading skills. I posed a question to liberal and secular Pakis, which you obviously are not.

Also, I asked why did Dalai Lama, Karampa and others sought asylum in India, not why India welcomes them. Those are two different things. They could have sought asylum any of the 150 or so countries, but why India? Do you see jews migrating to Germany, even now?

Again YLH and other liberal, secular Pakis:

Why did Dalai Lama, Karampa and others take asylum in a FASCIST country which ``EXTERMINATED`` Buddhists?

Ref Studebaker #: 761

[hOW LONG ARE YOU GOING TO DROOL OVER MY ANTIQUE STUDEBAKER,??ITS NOT FOR SALE TO USED CAR DESI HONDA DRIVING DESI]

``I drive a Jag.``

Benifer, cherrrrie

you and your lil sisters better remain that (lil),

see in the grown up world there are newspapers like Dawn, News etc which you can search and find the relevant news clips. Oh BTW lil, cherrrrrie these are pakistani newspapers and not the harami bania newspapers from bania-land or the zionist-jewish newspapers of the west.

lil cherrie, there are plenty of lil red tamatars flying around one may land on you and make you red and I hope there are no dunderheads who take it into their heads to issue a fatwa in your favour for loosing your lil dignity! but then theres urstruly and others around to do that so beware lil cherrie......

Re: scout

``if i tell some idiots not to call each other`s mothers and dadis prostitutes, why has that irked you so much? do you condone it?``

If I recall *you * were the one who dragged my name into your little fights...in some post to kabuli i think.

``Oh please, that`s quite a stretch for defending Rsaxena. He`s made fun of and passed rude comments aobut Islam time and time again. Are you blind?``

Of course you`ve got selective vision and can`t differentiate between throwing $hit over the fence and throwing back what was thrown over - but quite frankly I couldn`t care less.

``I understand your desire to defend a fellow Indian, but don`t stretch the truth while doing so.``

He`s not a fellow Indian. He`s a Bangladeshi (I think). And a Muslim at that.

Another classic Indian argument...

``Why is Dalai Lama living in a country which exterminated Buddhists?``

Because the Dalai Lama understands that what happened 1500 years ago is not relevant.

Three arguments given by Indians...

1) ICBMs are not Pakistan specific.

Indeed, that was the first thing I said. It would have made much more sense as far as security matters are concerned. The first thing which people who are blind did not notice was this. I have spoken as a citizen of the world and not just as a Pakistani. However Pakistan also will suffer, because with ICBM capacity India can exercise greater muscle and just bully Pakistan around without any intervention from the US.

2) ``You say India, I say China``

Oh so, you people are pointing fingers at China.

Fact no 1 : China is not nearly as poor as India

Fact no 2 : Indians typically point fingers at others instead of looking at themselves.. Does China justify ICBMs? You dont need ICBMs to target CHina... not ICBMs with 20000 km range.

3) ``Pakistan is in Kashmir``

We are there as a matter of principle. You show me the principle behind making ICBMs to target Europe US Latin America or Africa?

Once again, as always, Indians have completely exposed themselves as being devoid of any ``logical``

discourse.

Admit it... India is wrong in making ICBMs... and if Pakistan ever made ICBMs, I ll be the first critic of Pakistan though now they might just be forced into making them as always.. obviously its totally useless...

Long Live Pakistan

Down with Fascism!

Re Nameless 849

Or is it clueless?, Speak for all Indians on Chowk, do you? Yes Pakistan`s dignity is buried in many places, but that does not mean individual Pakistanis Muslims and Indians do not possess dignity and that it is civil to repect this.

Were you ever at Kargil during the conflict? If you as well are an arm chair general you may have noticed that regardless of the butchery each side inflicted on each other, it was coupled with a public expression of respect for the courage it took to be there and do their duty as they saw it.

Good manners and civility are basic and transcend national borders.

Reply #: 849 nameless

(I must say that I find this hilarious - the dignity of pakistanis was buried on the heights of Kargil, the soldiers whose BODIES WERE REJECTED by the Pakistani Army (and are interred in India and

Indian (that too Kafirs) soldiers with due military honours) - and you talk of dignity.)

nameless sweets...do tell where u got this interesting little bit of information..its tickled me immensely and my sisters guffawing behind me like it were going out of style..

a lil tip though on account of providing us with such mirth..even if you must fabricate things about the enenmy do it with some dignity i.e make it a lil believable..know what im sayin? probably not

be good

rsaxena #832,

if i tell some idiots not to call each other`s mothers and dadis prostitutes, why has that irked you so much? do you condone it?

sigalph235 #836, ``He has called many Muslims terrorists and so have I.``

Oh please, that`s quite a stretch for defending Rsaxena. He`s made fun of and passed rude comments aobut Islam time and time again. Are you blind?

And by the way, is `calling Muslims terrorists` any better? You say it with such pride. Have you ever seen me calling the Hindu religion anything?

I understand your desire to defend a fellow Indian, but don`t stretch the truth while doing so.

hobbyty #: 838

begin_quote{

I tell you we have passed the limits of humour and we now, knowingly inflicts blow to each others dignity. Please be a part of the solution and put an end to such behaviour. }end_quote

I must say that I find this hilarious - the dignity of pakistanis was buried on the heights of Kargil, the soldiers whose BODIES WERE REJECTED by the Pakistani Army (and are interred in India and Indian (that too Kafirs) soldiers with due military honours) - and you talk of dignity. Indian dignity has always been taken for a ride by pakistan - the number of times this has happened is endless, the latest being Lahore when Vajpayee standing ion front of that giant shiv linga in lahore called minar e pakistan made a speech...dignity was buried when the current leader refused to attend the events of Lahore...hey the list is endless.

It is just now that pakistan is realising that it has no cloths and is standing naked. Paksitan teid to rip India for a long time....India bore it

Give this speil elsewhere....

Fuhrer YLH:

The Neo Nazi Sunni Islamic republic of West Punjab.....

You are entering your Weimar years right now.....

Gymnosophist! Get the coordinates for the baakra`s dormitory at Rutgers University, New York. These ICBM`s have a purpose after all....

;-)

RSaxena #826

Poor Pakistanis deserve that money.

And we realize it.

The difference between a literate and illiterate is small.

Literate knows what he does not know. Illiterate does not know that.

Gymnosophist #827

Your answer is good.

India can inflict irreparable damage not only to China and America but is also doing it to its own people.

It is not certain whether India will do irreparable damage to China or America or not.

But it is doing irreparable damage to Indian people even today.

And that is the question of YLH.

RSaxena #828

Whether Jihadis mother is proud or Bania`s mother is not is a moot question.

The only certain thing is that everybody will be happy when some useless pathetic parasite dies.

In your face #834

Where can they go, if India welcomes them to irritate China.

Lugta Hai Tu Saari Zindagi ParRosion Se LarRta Raha Hai.

Aur Teri IQ Wahin Tuk Mahdood Hai.

YLH#

Won`t you enjoy the response of Layman and Jenteuce99 on ICBM.

Lo Kar Lo Gul.

Re: hobbyty #: 839

``Indians seem to want to connect only with the territory of India, whereas Pakistani connect with the entire Muslim ummah.``

You mean like ``West Pakistani punjabi fist CONNECT with East Pakistani Bengali jaw`` ?

ylh,

This i thought was the biggest secret. Damn,someone gave it away. Now you know why we hindus worship the lingam. It is shaped like the ICBM missile.

No,just kidding. On a more serious note,is it not obvious to you and others in the chowk that India wants to play a more global role commensurate with its size. People respect you if you carry a big stick. I think the ICBM is really aimed at china. America will be wary of India`s growing ambition and will keep a close tab on it. The huge middle class and the influential section of American Indians i believe are supportive of this. I believe India should concentrate on,as an immediate priority,making education freely accessible to all children under 14 years and making right to information a fundamental right. These 2 things will impress me more than the ICBM.

Your question however was why does a poor country need ICBM. The same applies for China. Please remember China is still a poor country and when it started making ICBM,it was perhaps poorer.Long range missiles with technology to deliver nuclear warheads accurately have become a way of projecting global power. Those who have the technology (India being one)will demonstrate the technology. Being poor has not prevented India from advancing technologically in many areas. To put it in nutshell,as the hindi saying goes ``jiska danda uski bhains``.

sridhar

My God,

This kid in not only dumb but also blind and deaf..

ylh #829:

Ylh, why do you care? Rest assured, the ICBMs can`t be targetted against your country.

Re Layman 819

Are you not being extremely selective when you suggest that only Indians and Pakistani share a heritage - don`t Afhgans and assorted Turkic peoples share a heritage with Pakistanis and indians.

Indians seem to want to connect only with the territory of India, whereas Pakistani connect with the entire Muslim ummah. I am at a loss to understand why this fact bothers Indians so much. Pakistanis have not denied Indians a connect with the larger Muslim Ummah, why is it that Indians want so desperately for Pakistanis to identify with Indians and with nobody else.

Re Rsaxena #828

Jehadi`s mothers do not shed tears and Bania`s do.

And, therefore, we may infer..what, exactly?

A difference in their humanity? Their value as a human being?

One is ready to lay his or her life in defense of others (Jehadi)

The other is ready to loans sums of money, has passed away from natural causes or from the trauma or in the vain attempt of trying to collect from the Jehadi in another life.

Many Pakistani Muslims have indeed used profanities with regard to hindus and hinduism but I must tell you, Indians have been profane and sacreligious, demonizing Islam and the Messenger do not bring honor. I call on you to break this chain of dehumanizing one another.

I tell you we have passed the limits of humour and we now, knowingly inflicts blow to each others dignity. Please be a part of the solution and put an end to such behaviour.

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re scout 821

Ma`am, Rsaxena is wrong about half the time in my opinion. But he has never called `Islam a terrorist religion`. He has called many Muslims terrorists and so have I. Let`s not get carried away in typical fashion of ``Islam in danger`` school of politics.

Ref: ylh #829

Ylh, this discussion has veered so much off course, that it would be kindness to let it die. In any case there is a new article to discuss the same issues.

But to answer your questions: why did India choose to go nuclear despite its poverty? Precisely for the same reasons that Pakistan did. You were following us, we were following China. If you can understand why Pakistan followed in our wake, you understand India`s motives too. By the way, not all our policies are pakistan-centric. Please! How vain is that?

In any case India has global ambitions. Makes sense for a country this big. How can we stop because you can`t afford to compete with us? Is it even fair of you to ask that of us? :)

Which brings me to the next issue: who asked you to compete with us? Since independence you have been in a state of covert or overt hostility with us out of your OWN CHOICE. Okay, you want Kashmir. You tried in `47, `65 and `99, and failed. Magar India ne aapko khush rakhne ka theka to nahin le rakha! If you still want to keep trying, that is your problem, not India`s. So stop blaming us!

And you know what...India realizes that you will not bow to our wishes. Okay, we can live with that. But shouldn`t you stop expecting India to bow to your wishes too? Just becoz you are the smaller party here does not mean that you are always right. Stop behaving like pampered kids and expecting everything to go your own way and crying loudly if they don`t.

As for decrying Islam, I would not do it. Anyone who does so is entitled to his own private opinion, I can only strongly urge them not to vent their opinions in public. As far as the TNT is concerned, I think it is stupid, backward and retrogade. But my opinion cannot take away from Pakistan`s right to exist. If you want it to exist, I join you in saying ``Pakistan Zindabad``!

Hope you are satisfied now, and can move onto other, better things in life.

-narain

YLH!

I have question for you and all other liberal, secular Pakis,

Why did Dalai Lama, Karampa and others take asylum in a FASCIST country which ``EXTERMINATED`` Buddhists?

YLH!

You say India. I say China.

Re: scout #821

I`m not the one chasing a red flag with flared nostrils complaining about this one and that one and demanding people to be consistent, am I? No.

Now go play in the sand with that bicycle wheel.

We all know who the real Neo Nazis are

YLh stop getting hyterical.

India is producing ICBMs to feed its poor - see the argument goes like this

- no money (bankrupt like pakistan) no feed poor implies remain poverty infested, flea infested, etc etc like Lahore for rest of life - technology=money, yes money more feeding less poor. If pakistan cannot produce this sh *t then they are poor - no technology farts for poor...

Also everything India does is not pakistan specific. You must be living in a fools world if you think everything in the world revolves around pakistan.

Pakistan is a flea infested, dicease ridden pockinfested talibanised godforsaken little pipsqueak of a country filled with illiterate unedcatable wannabe arabs who have forsaken their own culture for something else .....

now does that answer your hysteria. No I bet