Across the River

re. SameerJB #19,

Dear Sameer,

Your posts was enlightening as usual, and commendable for its seeming objectivity. Thanks for sharing your time this way... TO greater understanding!

Still, I would agree with Akash, on that as many people as possible should be sold the ideas as put forward in the article reprinted in #17.

If this amounts too untruthfulness, well, can we call it a Noble Lie? Wouldn`t the end justify the means??

regards,

PM

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Studebaker #17, Akash #18:

The Times of India article that you reproduced here is, in my opinion, written with the noble intention of bridging the ever increasing split between Muslims and Hindus in India. His quotes are true but selective and misplaced. The author also intentionally ties conversion to Islam with practices and philosophies of many sufis, particularly from Chishti and Qadri schools. An average reader would be fooled into believing that conversion was somehow the result of including Hindu philosophy into sufis teachings. This article is flawed on several accounts. The facts are:

1) Conversion to Islam is much more complex than romanticized version of Sufi influence. The irregular pattern of conversion across sub-continent attests to this fact. Most successful sufis in conversion are largely lesser known ones who acted as middlemen between Ghaznavis, Ghauris, Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Sadats, Lodhis and Mughals. They went after converting tribal chiefs, elders, zamindars and elite using threat and reward strategy. Conversion of bourgeoisie paved the way for the conversion of proletariat. Sufis like Rukn-ud-Din Alam and Makhdoom Shah Jahanian of Suharwardiya school were the most successful ones in Punjab.

2) Most of the conversion took place between 11th and the end of 17th century. Most of the famous sufis of Chishti and Qadri school are from 18th to early 20th century and had nothing to do with conversion. Waris Shah, Bulleh Shah, Sultan Bahu, Khawaja Farid had nothing to do with conversion. Their target was Muslims. They tried to include Indian philosophies into their teachings and practices to bridge the Hindu-Muslim divide or out of genuine convictions. A great Sufi, named Baba Farid Shakargang lived throught the time of conversions but was mostly unsuccessful due to his simple, respectfulness of native beliefs and refusal to act as middleman to convert by hook or by crook. Another famous sufi Data Ganj Baksh of Lahore came to Lahore from the court of Mahmud Ghaznavi. He would not even touch a Hindu, much less to have any respect for native philosophies. He was strict about orthodox Islam.

3) Famous literary and peace-loving sufis in NWFP and Sindh also date from post-conversion era. Their aim was also to make orthodox Muslims into Indianized Muslims and decrease the sharp separation that existed between mullah inspired orthodoxy in Islam and Hinduism.

Conversion and sufi teachings are two different areas and must be dealt with separately. Sufis teachings were not responsible for conversion, which we believe. Sufi teaching should be followed by sub-continent Muslims, which they don`t-lately.

The influence of Vedanta of Shankara or yoga on wahdat-ul-wujood and other sufi practices is factual and not myths. However, its purpose was never to win converts from Hindu communities. A good Muslim should take pride in the humble, innovative and practical approaches to religious practices of these great sufis but not in the politics and practices of conversions.

Studebaker#17

I wish whatever you said in this post is true! I admit that I know/read nothing of this regard anywhere. If it is true, these things should be told to as many people in India as possible.

Regards

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In my #13, please read insert the words ``but the necessary`` to read:

``Indeed, could it be that stripped of all [but the necessary]layers of material concerns, the economically deprived folks offer us an idea of what is we lack?

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re. #10

I guess chowk`s messing up with the nicks again.

.... Or could RSaxena *really * have posted a reply not out to ridicule or simply tease someone???!!!

Well, if that was posted by you Saxena, may I say, even at the risk of sounding condesending, that you sound not just wiser but sweeter when not operating in, shall we say... Tease-ylh mode?

Hope to see more of this side of you!

rgds,

PM

Ms. Tewari,

You have done a wonderful job conveying the richness of your experiences at the basti, in a way that helps us realize the truly important things in life (even if only momentarily)... Indeed, could it be that stripped of all layers of material concerns, the economically deprived folks offer us an idea of what is we lack? Or maybe it is just our doing what is important, and feeling a sense of purposefulness deep down that draws us to such experiences? It`s probably both. ok.. i`m rambling now... But certainly, both ideas come through in your article.

I`d also like to commend you on several penetrating observations you make... Your portrayal of the basti folks is warm without being romantic. Given your intense feelings for those people, it would have been easy for you to be overly sentimental. You also avoided exhitibiting a beknighted attitude toward those folks.

Thank you for reminding us of the strength of the human spirit in people like Ramaswamy and Razia, even as you hit home with observations on the sarcastic, embittered and degrading Shahida & Co. Your honest narration helped the reader get a good idea of the situation-- both it`s triumphant and debasing aspects.

In ending, I`d like to wish you fulfillment in whatever it is you do. Although I might be wrong, I am assuming that your current job web-designing leaves you with a feeling that not doing what you are meant to. If I may offer some advice (born of similar experience I assure you), try and look for ways in which your current work

experiences may assist you when you return (as I`m sure you will) to help out in the trenches. I`m sure you you are already aware of the the benifits, if not necessity, of securing a measure of personal financial stability. Further, the experience in the US will probably also give you the confidence to take on the gods of restrictive custom back in India.

Warm regards,

Patrick Masih.

Attn: Paging Dost-Mittar G:

Seema,

A very warm welcome to chowk. What a lovely article.Iam forever perplexed on the Hindu/ Muslim, Christian syndrome.

It`s like an expectant mother.... anyone or everyone goes around wishing for her .... hope its a boy this time.... hope its a girl this time, as if the poor lady can pick and choose what she wants !

Similarly it is not by our own choice that we have been born a muslim, hindu, sikh, christian or a jew.So what is the commotion all about? I think it is a disgrace on humanity .

One gentleman was visiting a town. he wanted to say his afternoon prayers .He asked someone if they could direct him to a mosque.

The person asked `` yeh batein are you shia or sunni ``. then asked are you borree, khoja or memon ?

The poor gentleman never made it to the mosque , because of all the If`s and But`s .

All religions are to be respected, understood, and learnt from.

Very nice to see you share your experience with us. Hope there were more of your kind around !

Do keep writing , its lovely to read the real stuff !

lots of love,

sa:)

Re:Pervez

``But i want to do something with my life.Lot more than just rasing kids and giving them good education and seeing them through to success.Which by the way I have done. I can not accept the life the way it is.But what should and what can I do?.``

You, sir, are disillusioned. Read some of Jack Kerouac`s work. You`ll enjoy it. By the way, this type of reflection and questioning is excellent. The sooner one does it in life, the better. Getting married, raising kids, and earning money are all important, but there has to be a lot more than that - something that signifies what is unique about you as an individual.

Seema,what a heart warming story.See I am 50 years old.My children are grwon up and married.I have good life but lately feel lost.I never did ,but now i miss my youth. I have a very understanding wife.My children love me.But i want to do something with my life.Lot more than just rasing kids and giving them good education and seeing them through to success.Which by the way I have done. I can not accept the life the way it is.But what should and what can I do?.Now suddenly i feel very poor.In my book poor is not the one who has no money and means.Poor is the one who has no vision and have no new ideas,Poor is the one who want to but does not do anything to help himself.Poor is the one who can but does not help others. I have few other definations of poor.I do not know which catagory of poverty I fall in,but i am very poor.And seema you started your life very rich,you eanrd a lot for nine months,but just like me you ended up broke and poor in the end.Just like people from PM Basti.

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Re: scout, #4

Many years ago, before I left Pakistan for America, I read ``Khuda Ki Basti`` and saw the play on PTV. What a brilliant novel, and the play did total justice to it. They left an indelible mark on me. Thank you for reminding me of those (my innocent) days scout.

Seema:

First a warm welcome and hope you continue to write here. You don’t know but you made my day...more on this shortly...:)

The quotes I have picked from your journal are simple but potent...

[...After a while it struck me that there was no basic difference between Muslims and Hindus...I had also harboured notions of Muslims being dirty, not keeping their houses clean like us. After working in PM Basti it became clear to me that Hindus and Muslims were essentially the same... Live and let live...There are good and bad people everywhere...]

Simple, elegant, potent, powerful!

Sad affection and attachment to Soni contributed to your present aloofness. Hope you come out of this soon.

Mr Ramaswamy...does he write poetry also? If he does, then he is the same person I am looking for for quite some time now...well (sheepish admission) since my last hard drive fried...no back-ups ...long story...to make it short...he wrote to me in response to something I had written...we struck a friendship and he sent me some of his poems...he must be wondering where I disappeared...if you have his address...please send it to temporal3@hotmail.com...will appreciate very much...

love,

temporal